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wafflesnsegways posted:Does anyone have a recipe similar to rogue saint red? This is from an old issue of BYO that had a bunch of clone recipes in it. I've never brewed it and it uses a fuckton of crystal malt. Also Rogue uses the Pacman yeast for most (all?) of their beers and I think that's available from Wyeast year-round now so use that if you can. St. Rogue Red Ale Clone 5 Gallons, All Grain OG: 1052 FG: 1015 IBU: 42 SRM: 26 ABV: 4.8% 7 lb. 2 row malt 1 lb. Munich 1 lb. Crystal 15 1.25 lb Crystal 40 1 lb. Crystal 75 10.5 AAU Chinook hops (90 min) (0.95 oz of 11% alpha) 9.5 AAU Centennial hops (whirlpool or hopback) (1 oz of 9.5% alpha) Wyeast 1056 of WLP 001 Mash at 155 for 60 min. Ferment at 67 recipe assumes 65% efficiency BoyMeetsWorld posted:My only guess was that the fermenter may not have gotten enough ventilation locked in the air tight fridge, and the gas built up too much. That couldn't be related could it?... No matter what kind of container your fermentor is in it won't stop the gas from being released from the airlock. If you could describe the smell it'd help to identify the problem. Some yeasts give off a sulfury smell which will smell like eggs or farts, you usually just need to let it sit in primary for a while for that to go away. If you bottle while it still smells sulfurous I don't think it goes away for a long time. Bleston Humenthal posted:2) Brew new batch into the 5g secondary fermenter with a blowoff (Cream ale, usually fairly vigorous fermentation) These two are your best options. If you move a beer out of primary before it's finished it can stall out since you're taking it off of the majority of the yeast. Acceptableloss posted:I've had basically the same problem: My final gravity comes out low. In one case, very low. You said your final gravity comes out low but I'm going to assume you meant your starting gravity. We need some more info to help you out. What exactly is low? Give us some numbers of what your gravity should have been and what it actually was. To measure conversion on brewday a refractometer is the easiest thing to use. You can also use your hydrometer, you just have to get the sample cooled down to 60-70* to get an accurate measurement. Since you only need about a cup of wort to take a reading it's not that hard to do with a small ice bath and stirring the sample. Josh Wow fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Sep 18, 2011 |
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Sep 18, 2011 16:03
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Globochem posted:
Don't worry about boiling water, just buy a couple gallons of drinking water and chuck them in your fridge. You want drinking water and not distilled water for the minerals. You'll most likely only be boiling 2-3 gallons at a time right now so when your boil is over take your pot and stick it in an ice+water+salt bath in your sink or a rubber tub and stir it with a sanitized spoon to cool it as much as you can. Then take your chilled drinking water and put it in your bucket and vigorously pour your wort on top. This will help mix it up and help oxygenate your wort. This should get you down to pitching temp or close to it, if you're still too high stick your fermentor in the coolest place you can find until it's the correct temp.
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Sep 23, 2011 11:26
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indigi posted:A lot of grains claim to give a red hue to beer, but the only one I've used that actually gives a nice ruby redness as opposed to a burnt sienna type color is small amounts of roast barley. What say everyone else? It's not super common to find but carared or caraamber both give a really nice bright red color to a beer. I've had pretty much the same experiences as you and found out that my love of vienna makes for a nice base for a red beer. The vienna gets you to a light orange on it's own, then once you start adding in some darker character malts it gets into that nice red territory. I've actually decided recently after having a few beers come out too dark with me adding 2 oz of roast barley or carafa for color that I'm done with that poo poo. If I want to make a scottish ale and my grain bill is gonna get me a golden beer rather than red/brown unless I add a little roasted barley then my scottish ale is just gonna be golden. JohnnySmitch posted:I never thought of doing a vodka 'tincture' like that - that's a really cool idea. Get an eyedropper and when you go to bottle pull 12 oz of your beer out of the fermentor. Add a drop of the tincture to the glass and mix it in, and just continue that until you're satisfied with the taste. Then just multiply that out (there's 48 beers in 5 gallons) and add that amount to the bottom of the bottling bucket and rack your beer on top of it to get it mixed in well.
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Sep 25, 2011 14:43
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I've always been a pretty big fan of the kits on the Northern Brewer site, I did those when I was first starting out and they were all at least good. You can view the contents of the kit as well, so you don't even have to buy from them to get the recipe. They have user reviews for the kits now as well, and if you go search in the forum for the name of the kit you can find several posts of people talking about them. Plus they recently started carrying rye malt extract so you can make an extract roggenbier for the first time ever!
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Sep 26, 2011 02:24
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Hey Rage-Saq where do you get your D1 candi syrup? I'm doing a quad soon and my lhbs is out of the syrup they carry, and the syrup at northern brewer has 2 bad reviews saying it's not very flavorful. Also I just looked through Brew Like A Monk and they say Westvletern secondaries the beer at 50*, do you do that? I'll be brewing this for a competition that's in December so I'll have 6-7 weeks before I need to bottle the beer. I was thinking do 2-3 weeks at the upper temperature range then drop it down to 50* for the remaining weeks. Since I want it drinkable in 2 months though I wasn't sure if I should do that or just leave it at fermentation temps the entire time. Josh Wow fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Oct 5, 2011 |
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Oct 5, 2011 08:49
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rage-saq posted:Check https://www.thesaq.net/beer/recipes (not fancy looking yet, I'm working on an index page and other stuff) it has my quad recipe that I'm brewing in a week or two and its called The Pious. Thanks for the info. I was planning on just doing 50/50 pale/pils based on Brew Like A Monk and some old posts of yours I dug up. Do you like the version with more specialty grains significantly better? Edit: Just dropped $40 on candi syrup  I got 2 lbs of D180 and 1 lb of D90 for this quad, and then a pound each of D90 and D45 for some future batches.
Josh Wow fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Oct 6, 2011 |
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Oct 6, 2011 06:55
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rage-saq posted:
This is the conclusion I came to as well. I wanted to make my own but everything I read said it wouldn't be close to what actual belgian breweries use. Ditto for other professional manufacturers, like the northern brewer syrup with the bad reviews.
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Oct 7, 2011 12:35
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I'll let somebody else answer the other questions because I rarely use fruit in my beers, but from other people in my homebrew club bringing in blueberry beers you're going to need way more than a pound to get any noticeable flavor. Think closer to 3-5 lbs with blueberries.
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Oct 8, 2011 14:47
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Daedalus Esquire posted:I basically used a Munich Dunkel as the base and the recommended cinnamon amounts from beersmith. A traditional munich dunkel is basically 100% munich malt, with an ounce or two of carafa III for color. That much chocolate malt is definitely going to give you a roasty flavor you don't want in a munich dunkel. One of my favorite beers I've made is a munich dunkel and I did 60% dark munich and 40% light munich with 2 oz of carafa III for color. The carafa is dehusked so you don't get the roasted flavors that you get from other black malts. That recipe you have posted is more of a low gravity baltic porter. I'm not saying it would be a bad beer but if you're going for a munich dunkel it'll be off base. If you want to go with that recipe and go for more of a porter lager I'd add about 5-8% crystal malt. Josh Wow fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 05:22
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beetlo posted:Basically I need to know what hops and yeast to use... Tettnanger or Hallertauer and Wyeast 3068 are the classic choices for hefeweizens. If you're going for a fruity american wheat beer you probably wanna use American Ale 1 or 2.
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Oct 15, 2011 14:47
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You can make a beer unpleasantly bitter. Why not just save the other 7 oz for other beers? That being said, I've done a beer with a pound of hops before and it was very good but it was a DIPA and you're in IPA range right now. If you want to do it I'd add the extra hops at 5-0 min or dry hop with them so your IBUs don't get too high.
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Oct 17, 2011 00:39
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I did an 8 gallon batch in Mid-August just because I had some yeast I wanted to use up, 5 gallons went to what I was planning on doing and the extra 3 went to my extra yeast I had. While I've already finished drinking the main batch I just got around to kegging the extra 3 gallon batch today. The OG on it was 1.054 and my reused yeast cake of the Weihenstephan yeast took it down to 1.004. There's definitely no infection, after I took the reading I made sure to drink the entire hydrometer sample to try and identify any off flavors. The beer did get up to about 78* after primary fermentation had finished up (or so I thought) and I pulled it out of my chest freezer, so I assume that and the long time in primary are what took it down so far.
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Oct 18, 2011 02:01
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tesilential posted:I'm not familiar with that yeast but that's good attenuation. What temp did you mash at? 154*F. The main beer was a black saison, the only thing that would have contributed to such a low FG would be .5 lb table sugar. The saison portion went down to 1.006 but that was with the French Saison yeast which is to be expected.
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Oct 18, 2011 03:22
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Huge_Midget posted:I had heard both good and bad things about them. I just said gently caress it and bought this Micromatic. Lets me run two separate serving pressures and if needed you can daisy chain more regulators onto it. I have the version of that regulator that kegconnection makes and it hasn't given me any problems in the 2 years I've had it.
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Oct 19, 2011 22:21
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wafflesnsegways posted:Ugh. I bottled a red ale (around 1.06 og, 1.15 fg) two and a half weeks ago. Cracked two open, and they're flat. I don't think I forgot the priming sugar - but maybe I did. Wait, sometimes they take a little while to carb. One thing you can do that may help speed things up is to flip the cases upside down, then after 2-3 days right side up. Repeat until carbonated. This keeps the yeast in suspension and may help get things carbed faster. If you still don't have any carbonation in another two weeks then you may need to take more drastic measures.
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Oct 23, 2011 12:37
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Propagator if it's standard gravity, but Wyeast stopped making those recently so if you find them they're a couple months old.
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Oct 31, 2011 16:58
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TheCIASentMe posted:It can be if you let go for too long. Generally speaking you've got about 3-4 months before your beer will go bad. Longer if you refrigerate it. It won't spoil but it will taste worse the longer it goes. This isn't really accurate info. Your beer will not go bad just sitting around in a fermentor and sunlight doesn't make beers stale. If you plan on leaving a beer for more than 1-2 months (depending on who you ask, I go more towards 2 months) you do want to have it in a glass carboy. This is because buckets have multiple times more oxygen permeability and your beer can get oxidized. You do want to keep your beer from direct contact with UV light, but this is because it reacts with hop compounds and skunks the beer. Nobody makes brown carboys but a black t-shirt or better yet a cardboard box covering yoir carboy will keep light out just fine. You can let your beer sit in the proper fermentor as long as your sanitation is good and you take care of it.
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Nov 5, 2011 14:08
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TheCIASentMe posted:Plastic buckets are more oxygen permeable than glass but the difference has been proven to have no appreciable difference when it comes to storing beer. You'd have to store the beer for a year to have a demonstrable difference. Your typical homebrew bucket leaks 23 cc/L of oxygen per year while a glass carboy with silicone stopper leaks 17 cc/L of oxygen per year. Your numbers are off here. Sourcing the chart in Wild Brews a homebrew bucket leaks 220 cc/L per year, your carboy numbers are correct. So more than 10x the oxygen permeability in a bucket versus a carboy is a significant enough difference to worry about. quote:Stale flavors in beer are typically caused by a compound called trans-2-nonenal which is generated in beer naturally around a rate of .5g/L per 5 months at room temperature. At 0.35g/L of trans-2-nonenal a beer is generally considered stale. You're pretty much missing the point here. The thing I was refuting in your original post was you basically said if you let a beer sit for more than 3-4 months it goes bad, which is not true. While there are compounds that cause off-flavors over time they clearly aren't present enough in your average craft brew or homebrew to seriously affect the flavor after 3-4 months. If they were the majority of craft beer people buy would be stale/have noticeable off-flavors from it. Do I think the majority of average gravity beers are better the fresher you can drink them? Of course. Do they 'go bad' after a couple months? Absolutely not. Josh Wow fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Nov 8, 2011 |
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Nov 8, 2011 03:38
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kitten smoothie posted:This crap was not floating on top before I moved it, which is why I'm thinking that it's related. I assume if I had an infection it would have been evident a lot sooner, and would be much more widespread, right? That looks kind of like it could be the beginnings of an infection, or it could be nothing. I'd give it a good smell/taste and if you don't notice anything remotely off not worry about it too much. If you do think it's the beginnings of an infection just bottle/keg it really quickly and get it refrigerated. If you bottle keep an eye on them to make sure they don't get too carbonated and blow up. You're probably fine though, it doesn't look too bad. krushgroove posted:So I guess I have the usual 'is my brew screwed?' question... It's fine, despite there not being water in the airlock you had enough outward pressure from fermentation to keep anything else from getting in there.
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Nov 14, 2011 12:49
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indigi posted:Primed with Cooper's carb tabs. The old owner of my LHBS told me that a majority of the people that used those carb tabs came back and complained about some kind of infection, so that's a possibility. Also if you had an infection in your primary I wouldn't reuse that yeast.
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Nov 17, 2011 12:45
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Huge_Midget posted:Any suggestions on the best way to go about doing this? You don't need very much yeast to carbonate bottles, so making a starter is unnecessary even for 18 gallons of beer. I think you'd be fine to buy a pack of the Denny Conn yeast and split it evenly between the 3 carboys. Then mix up your priming sugar solution in the correct amount for each batch and add it to the bottling bucket before you rack the beer on top. Repeat 3 times and you're done.
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Nov 24, 2011 23:40
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You could also pitch two packets of dry lager yeast, the Saflager 34/70 is the one I see recommended most. That would get you 460 billion yeast cells, which is close enough. Mr. Malty's numbers are generally overkill for what you actually need. Just make sure to properly rehydrate the yeast and aerate your wort well and you'll be fine.
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Nov 30, 2011 13:09
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mindphlux posted:I'm curious about this, but a step further. how the heck do breweries with fixed pipes and CIP systems really get clean? it seems like any enclosed system where you can't run a brush through would be a magnet for gunk - I mean even let's assume you transfer off a primary fermentation from a vessel to some secondary tank, and yeast sludge, trub, etc is going through those pipes. Even if you cleaned it immediately, I can't see having many thousands of dollars worth of beer on the line and just trusting that a flush of PBW and starsan or whatever cleans your tubes. Hot enough water and the right chemicals will clean anything. For example to clean and sanitize our bottle filler we run about 40 gallons of hot water (at around 180*F), recirculate a hot caustic solution for 20 min, run 40 gallons cold water, recirculate a phosphoric acid solution for 20 min, run 40 gallons cold water and then run 40 gallons paraacetic acid.
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Dec 4, 2011 13:45
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mindphlux posted:do you work for a brewery? don't think I ever realized that Yea I work at Terrapin on the bottling/kegging line.
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Dec 5, 2011 13:19
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When I did my Flanders Red I stored my sanitizer in the bucket I used for primary for about 2 months then started using it again and haven't gotten an infection from it yet. I also use the same racking cane and the same bottling bucket, wand and tubing from it without any problems. Just make sure you sanitize everything very well and you'll be fine.
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Dec 7, 2011 13:26
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mindphlux posted:oh, I don't think this is ridiculous at all. anyone think this is ridiculous? I don't think it's ridiculous, but it's not necessary. My procedure when I change kegs is to rinse it out with hot water until it's clean and soak it in star san for 60 seconds. I dump the first pint from a new keg because of sediment/mixed beer in the line. This procedure doesn't change even if I've had a brett beer on tap or something similar. Every 6 months or so I'll run star san through my lines and dissamble and clean my taps. I've never had any off flavors or infections from this. Also there was some talk of autolysis recently. I brewed up a belgian quad on October 16 and bottled it this Monday. It sat in primary the entire time in a bucket. When I bottled I didn't add any extra yeast even though the beer was pretty drat clear. I tried a test bottle yesterday and the beer is already carbing up nicely and I can't detect any off flavors.
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Dec 11, 2011 14:36
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mindphlux posted:buy five 1 gallon growlers, and just go through the effort of cleaning those and whatever. Growlers may or may not burst if you try to carbonate beer in them, I haven't seen definitive proof one way or another. The glass isn't rated to hold a carbonating beverage though so they definitely could shatter. Plastic soda bottles would be a better choice if you wanted to go that route. I have a friend who can't have kegs because of space issues and she uses party pigs for part of her batches and enjoys them. I just bottled for the first time in a long time this past Monday and it wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. Sure I'm glad I don't have to do it all that often but it went quickly enough.
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Dec 11, 2011 23:24
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mindphlux posted:Interesting to note, but do you have any idea why? I'd not assume this one by default - I mean at least let one explode before you write them off. All the growlers I've seen have been pretty thick looking glass. When yeast produce CO2 it has to then be pushed back into the beer before the beer is carbonated so the growler would be under pretty good pressure and might explode. Unless it's in a very well enclosed container this could be both potentially very dangerous and quite messy. Not really something to screw around with.
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Dec 12, 2011 04:12
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Doc_Uzuki posted:Have any of you gone through the American Brewers Guild Craftbrewers Apprenticeship program? Did you find it worthwhile? Did they help find you a job afterwards? Would you do it all over again if you had the chance? I haven't gone through it but two people I've worked with have. One of them was a guy on the bottling line with me when I started my job. He was doing the course while he worked, and he went and did his apprenticeship at a brewpub in Oregon. He didn't make it past his probationary period at my work while the course was going on, so he probably wasn't the greatest worker. I don't know, I only worked with him for a few weeks. He came back from his apprenticeship and started making plans to open his own brewery but that hasn't gone anywhere as far as I know. I don't know if he actually applied to get a job at any other breweries or if he's still going to try and open his own. The other guy did his apprenticeship at my work and he's currently 1 of our 3 brewers. He has talked highly about the course. Again I don't know how much they helped him with job placement since he got hired where he did his apprenticeship. He seems to do a good job and I've never heard anybody say otherwise, so knowledge-wise it seems like it would be a good program.
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Dec 13, 2011 23:07
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Brewing up a Rauchbier tomorrow with more smoked malt than I've used before. Going with 92.5% weyermann rauchmalt and 2.5% each of carafa III, honey malt and caramunich II. Hallertauer to whatever I decide probably around 20 IBU and using the yeast cake from my munich dunkel. The dunkel was the first time I tried dry lager yeast, the Saflager 34/70. It's supposed to be the same as Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager which is the Weihenstaphen strain. I took a sample of the dunkel last night and it's down to 1.014 and smells/tastes pretty drat good even without any lagering. If these two beers turn out good I'll definitely be using the 34/70 again, beats the hell out of doing a 3/4 gallon starter.
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Dec 14, 2011 18:25
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Toebone posted:Anyone have tips for quick turnaround batches? I'm thinking of brewing up a 2.5 or 3 gallon extract batch for New Years. Just make something low gravity with a quick yeast and keep on top of your fermentation. The go to answer for this question is usually hefeweizen and those are great but you can do almost any low gravity american, english, german or belgian style with the right technique. Basically just do something that doesn't need to mellow at all. Hoppy stuff works well as long as it's balanced and you don't make it too bitter. I can crank out a great belgian pale ale or ordinary bitter in two weeks easy. Dry stouts and porters are also great, just don't use the irish ale yeast cause it's sluggish. Ferment somewhat warm to help things finish quickly, about 68 for most american/english strains or 70-72 for belgian ones. Keep your OG under 1.050 and you should be done in under a week pretty easily. I hope you keg cause there's not much getting around bottle comditioning times. If you do bottle pick a low carb english style and monitor your fermentation carefully. If you hit your FG within a week your yeast will still be plenty active to get you carbed up in another 5-7 days.
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Dec 17, 2011 18:40
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Acceptableloss posted:I managed to break... the pot I was using to vorlauf How do you break a pot?
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Dec 18, 2011 16:45
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People are too spread out for that, I think you'd just want to pick a couple qualified judges. I'm sure there's two qualified people that live near enough to each other to do this. If you could get two of those groups that's 4 judges and they'd only need a single bottle to judge. Shipping two seperate 12 oz bottles is cheap enough.
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Dec 20, 2011 02:16
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There's no way to do a 'best of show' with that. Plus people that judge this should be qualified, so their palate will be fine for any style. I'm sure we have people that would be great judges. I know we have several people that are professionals in some way in the beer industry and people that have done well in big competitions, etc.
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Dec 20, 2011 03:14
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Cointelprofessional posted:I used John Palmer's ratio and did 2/3 cup of white sugar with 2 cups of water. Amount of yeast doesn't matter near as much as the amount of priming sugar when worrying about overcarbonation. No matter how many yeast you pitch they can only eat the amount of sugar that's left in the beer. You said the bottle you had that was overcarbed was half full, which is normal. If you have too much headspace your beer will get more carbonated than if the same bottle had proper headspace.
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Dec 21, 2011 05:35
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1/7 - dampfbier #1 yellow version - ruled 1/23 - helles - all tettnanger, all delicious 2/13 - biere de garde #1 yellow version - ruled 2/17 - pilsener - all hallertauer, good but waited to long to drink so hops faded 2/17 - belgian pale w/ brett - totally badass 6 months later 2/25 - biere de garde #2 brown version - possibly the best beer I made all year/ever 3/13 - belgian dubbel w/ brett - used cake from pale ale, super bretty, super great 3/13 - oatmeal stout - awesome english beer 3/19 - cocoa shell brown porter - ok not great, should have used english yeast 4/3 - english IPA - pretty lovely thanks to Palisades being fruity as hell hops 5/8 - clusterfuck cream IPA - cream ale gone IPA with all cluster, what a lovely beer 5/30 - witbier - loving fantastic 6/5 - irish blonde - boring as poo poo 6/12 - fresh hop pale - 4 oz of wet hops ain't poo poo, even at flameout, boring 6/18 - roggenbier - pretty drat good, making it brown next time instead of orange 6/18 - hopburst pale ale - good, nothing special 7/8 - split 10 gal coffee and coconut browns - both sucked donkey dicks 8/14 - brown saision - fantastic 8/14 - brown dampfbier - pretty good but kinda boring, pitched too much yeast 8/21 - oktoberfest - best beer of the year/ever?- keg was destroyed in about 3 days 9/5 - hopfenschwarzbier - lots of tettnanger and hallertauer pretty badass 9/11 - belgian stout - better than I thought which means it was decent 9/21 - extract dubbel - pretty good 10/16 - belgian quad - so far loving great, glad I bought expensive rear end sugar 10/30 - english porter - 15% chocolate malt 100% awesome 11/20 - munich dunkel - lagering 12/17 - rauchbier - 92.5% rauch malt - about to lager So that's like 140ish gallons. Moral of the story is I shouldn't make American beer. German/Belgian/English 4 lyfe.
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Dec 29, 2011 12:42
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Brewed a double batch today and it wasn't awesomely smooth as usual. It was cold (for Georgia) and very windy so my propane burner got blown out 3 times while trying to start up even though I had my aluminum foil wind shield up. I had to move my burner to the corner of my house and move my car to block the wind, which meant I had to move 6 gallons of boiling wort at the end of the boil so I could get to the hoses and cool it. I ended up with 5 gallons each of english bitter and english mild though, and I got crazy efficiency for some reason. I had to add some water to the mild just to get it to a reasonable gravity for the style.j3rkstore posted:Brewing outside today, its about 40*. I'm a bit late but I didn't see anyone answer this yet, you can put it in a tub of warm water. indigi posted:Any tips besides waiting a day to grab a thief? Grab a piece of tubing, dip it down into the beer and cover the open end with your thumb. Prefect Six posted:Carbonation affects hydrometer readings right? Yes, pour your sample between two pint glasses about 10 times if you're taking a reading after fermentation has begun. Also make sure to adjust for temperature. Josh Wow fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jan 3, 2012 |
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Jan 3, 2012 03:31
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LeeMajors posted:I don't have a local homebrew store here in charleston. I'm not sure exactly where I'd be going to fill--probably a paintball store or something. Ok not sure what kind of tank they can fill though. Hmmm. Assuming it's Charleston, SC you have an Airgas which will fill CO2 tanks. I suggest getting the biggest tank you can to save you money on refills. At my local Airgas a 5 lb refill is around $18, a 10 lb is $22 and a 20 lb is $24. Apparently it's all about the labor costs. I got a used 20 lb tank from a soda supplier online for somewhere around $70 shipped. Don't bother with a new tank since most places just do exchanges anyway.
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Jan 3, 2012 13:37
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Prefect Six posted:By "after fermentation" you mean "after kegging because I'm lazy", right? No, fermentation puts some amount of CO2 into your beer. If you're taking a reading after it's already kegged and carbed I'd be more strenuous about getting the carbonation out. Pour between two pint glasses 10 times, wait 10 minutes, pour another 10 times, wait a few minutes then take your reading.
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Jan 3, 2012 23:41
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Honestly it's not necessary to purge with CO2 when bottling from the keg if you do it right. I do the bottling wand tube jammed into picnic tap method and have never had any problems. You just need to make sure you cap on foam. Fill the bottle slightly less than full then pull the bottling wand out and give it a few pulls to make the beer foam up out of the bottle. This makes sure all the oxygen is out. It takes some practice to get the fill level right but once you do it works great.
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Jan 12, 2012 08:11
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