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Fines proportion matters, AND nobody is saying to brew with 0 fines.
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Apr 4, 2024 22:38
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ulvir posted:didn’t hoffmann do his first v60 recipe way before he started diving into enormously expensive grinders though? it was specifically made for regular folks as well, the only fussy part of it was for single cups Sure, but before he dove into enormously expensive grinders for YouTube videos he was a world champion barista. Unless he specifically mentions the grinder used in that video, I would be very surprised if he used a grinder that costs less than $500. And I would hazard a guess that most people learning how to make pour overs from YouTube videos are working with significantly worse grinders than the average poster in this thread. Loving Africa Chaps posted:The whole fines discourse is ridiculous. The majority of YouTubers go on about less fines being good but the majority of your surface area of your coffee (and therefore the actual coffee) comes from fines. Grind consistency and level of fines has been quite throughly verified as having a huge impact on coffee. The issue isn’t that fines are present, the issue is the ratio of fines to desired grind size + the consistency of the rest of the particles. A 2 micron change in particle size can have an absolutely wild effect on coffee flavor. Since that small effect matters, increasing fine volume by even 5% could have an enormous effect as well. I mean, see this post from last page for anecdotal.. RichterIX posted:Switching between Hoffmann's method and Hedrick's method was actually how I discovered that slow feeding my grinder made a huge difference and what made me go back to Hoffmann's. If I don't slow feed I get way more fines and basically can't use Hoffmann's method without being in danger of stalling unless I grind pretty coarsely. If I slow feed I can go way finer on my grind without the extra agitation from having more pours causing it to stall.
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Apr 4, 2024 22:49
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I’m guessing 99.999% of coffee drinkers can’t tell the “absolutely wild effect” of a 2 micron size difference, but tbh I haven’t done a blind taste test so who knows 
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Apr 4, 2024 23:00
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Vegetable posted:I’m guessing 99.999% of coffee drinkers can’t tell the “absolutely wild effect” of a 2 micron size difference, but tbh I haven’t done a blind taste test so who knows This is the same conversation that wine connoisseurs were having in the 1980s about California wines versus French. Turns out the vast majority of people won't be able to taste the difference, yes. There are big diminishing returns when it comes to controlling taste extraction, and even bigger diminishing returns about who can actually taste them. Going from a blade grinder to a $150 grinder is going to be an enormous difference maker that most people will taste. Going from $150 to $500 is going to smaller and $500 to $1000+ is going to be a very small portion. You'll get more out of upgrading other parts of the process or using better beans for your taste. The pricier it gets, and the more complicated the flavor profile, the more likely it's going to be you pull a crappy shot the first three times too, so ymmv. But hey, if you want to put in that sort of effort, no one's stopping you except your accountant.
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Apr 4, 2024 23:28
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Jhet posted:This is the same conversation that wine connoisseurs were having in the 1980s about California wines versus French. Turns out the vast majority of people won't be able to taste the difference, yes. Assuming we're thinking of the same thing, that was completely different, as that was more of an ingrained old world > new world bias in wine rather than anything to do with being able to tell them apart. Like the coffee equivalent is more like people still thinking kopi luwak is higher quality coffee. Also a lot of those distribution charts are wildly deceptive, or at least the same thing can be represented in wildly different ways to draw different conclusions. The default view for particle size distribution for a lot of things seems to by volume, in which case fines make up a relatively small percentage of the distribution. But if you change it to surface area or particle count, suddenly it's just all fines, so a "small" change may or may not be in fact very small. Either way, who cares, if you like the coffee you're making then that's what matters at the end of the day.
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Apr 4, 2024 23:38
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Stalling issues can happen just from the way you pour and whether you swirl or not. I don't think experiencing it tells you anything definite about the propotion of fines in your grind.
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Apr 5, 2024 04:14
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I have two sets of the 64mm SSP Unimodal burrs in two different grinders. One set had been used for a couple of years, the other pair were unused. The brand new burrs produced far more muted, flat tasting coffee until I had put a few kilos of beans through them to season them. I don’t know how it works, but it definitely does work pretty noticeably when you can A/B test them side by side like that.
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Apr 5, 2024 04:30
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Jhet posted:This is the same conversation that wine connoisseurs were having in the 1980s about California wines versus French. Turns out the vast majority of people won't be able to taste the difference, yes. There are big diminishing returns when it comes to controlling taste extraction, and even bigger diminishing returns about who can actually taste them. Going from a blade grinder to a $150 grinder is going to be an enormous difference maker that most people will taste. Going from $150 to $500 is going to smaller and $500 to $1000+ is going to be a very small portion. You'll get more out of upgrading other parts of the process or using better beans for your taste. The pricier it gets, and the more complicated the flavor profile, the more likely it's going to be you pull a crappy shot the first three times too, so ymmv. As a 140 eur grinder owner getting a 600 eur grinder i look forward to less than 3 grams of retention, grind setting not changing mid grinder and for the ringing in my ears to be alleviated.
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Apr 5, 2024 06:24
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:Sure, but before he dove into enormously expensive grinders for YouTube videos he was a world champion barista. and Lance is deeply involved in that too, I don’t buy it I’ve only used middle-of-the-road grinders and never had issues other than skill issue
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Apr 5, 2024 06:34
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I ended up buying an OXO 8 Cup to try out as a lazy, no-fuss single cup option, and I'm digging it. Its got a couple little phases to the water dispersion, and I've taken to closing off the valve to start the brew, letting it dump all the water from its "bloom" phase to make more of an immersion phase, and then finally opening the valve once the main water phase kicks in. Grinding on the finer side (at 2 on my Ode 1.5 frankenbuild). Its probably not as high a ceiling as regular manual pour over options, but its still really good and very consistent without OCDing the poo poo out of it.
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Apr 10, 2024 21:18
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E61 group head havers, have you had your take apart your lever and lubricate it? It sounds like it’s meant to be lubricated by coffee oil and shouldn’t require manual lubrication. So I’m wondering does it need manual lubrication from time to time or am I cleaning out machine too much… My issue is that it’s squeaking when I’m turning it off during my first flush. Usually ok once I’m running a shot though.
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Apr 11, 2024 20:34
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I have the same problem after backflushing, it's meant to lubricate with the oil in the coffee but it hasn't after a shot a day for 2 weeks. So when I backflush I take the lever off and lubricate the cam with food safe silicone grease.
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Apr 11, 2024 20:42
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Red_Fred posted:E61 group head havers, have you had your take apart your lever and lubricate it? Backflushing with chemicals like Cafiza strips the lube off the cam, so you'll need to relube it each time you do that. Use some food safe grease like Molykote 111. Home use shouldn't require a chemical backflush more than once a month, assuming you're doing a water backflush routine at the end of every day. E61 groups tend to use rubber gaskets and those can get degraded by Cafiza over time, meaning you'll have to replace them sooner if you're using detergent too often.
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Apr 11, 2024 23:31
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Got a timemore 64s as an upgrade for my sage dose control and the jump is as big as going from a blade grinder to the sage grinder. My portafilter is too full at 19g since the grinder doesn't retain 3-5g. It is very also nice having more than 0 consistency between shots and not have to bang on the lid like a moron in order to get the grounds out. I think I am at my endgame with the grinder and lelit pl91t. Maybe a v60 to enjoy light roasts and delicate flavors
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Apr 12, 2024 05:08
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Gunder posted:Backflushing with chemicals like Cafiza strips the lube off the cam, so you'll need to relube it each time you do that. Use some food safe grease like Molykote 111. Home use shouldn't require a chemical backflush more than once a month, assuming you're doing a water backflush routine at the end of every day. E61 groups tend to use rubber gaskets and those can get degraded by Cafiza over time, meaning you'll have to replace them sooner if you're using detergent too often. The gently caress?? My Appartamento manual says to use cleaning solution each week, which I’ve been doing. I use Cafiza too. I would love to scale that right back as it’s a bit of a chore.
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Apr 12, 2024 06:32
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you absolutely don't need to be running something like cafiza thru on a weekly basis, not for a home machine maybe give the basket and shower screen a soak
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Apr 12, 2024 06:39
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backflush with a blank/water and make sure to get all the residual grounds off the shower screen when you're done for the day (just run it open and give it a wipe with a cloth) and that keeps the nasty away for a while. not overfilling the basket helps to keep excessive buildup off the screen but if you've got a 3-way valve that automatically purges the group the suction tend to pick stuff up anyway
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Apr 12, 2024 06:55
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A puck screen for the portafilter is also helpful for keeping things clean. I flush and clean the grouphead after the last use each day and there's almost never much of anything on the shower screen.
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Apr 12, 2024 08:48
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Hi, you may remember me as "that guy who won't shut up about the Flair Pro 2, creating fanboy videos and guesting on podcasts about it". As of a few days ago, I truly thought it was endgame for me. Along comes an Argos https://youtu.be/nJUFRXlNIl0 The machine still needs some babying, but seems like a big step change up from the Flair 58, with its PID boiler and actually having a steam wand and reasonable back to back shot times. Definitely on my "if I get a big Christmas bonus for a change" list! Relevant to current conversation, it'd be the first machine I'd actually need to care about a cleaning routine. That's one downside of having a closed water path. And yeah, Lance bringing his usual insanely detailed and helpful review, mixed with  comments and mannerisms that everyone loves to complain about. This poo poo right here keeps me subscribed though.
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Apr 12, 2024 10:42
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The Argos looks awesome. Definitely has some quirks, but it looks really nicely made and won’t take up too much space on a counter.
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Apr 12, 2024 13:37
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it dont matter posted:A puck screen for the portafilter is also helpful for keeping things clean. I flush and clean the grouphead after the last use each day and there's almost never much of anything on the shower screen. I actually backflush on my gaggia after every shot, it makes me feel good and it takes about 8 seconds. I know I don't need to but it's nice knowing there's no grounds up in there. I also use a puck screen, huge difference as you say.
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Apr 12, 2024 14:08
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I back flushed my e61 machine a handful of times in the last 2 months. I haven't tried a cleaning, but will do that quarterly because I don't really think it needs it more often than that and I don't want to gently caress up the seals. I'm doing 2 drinks a day or so
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Apr 12, 2024 15:23
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Red_Fred posted:The gently caress?? My Appartamento manual says to use cleaning solution each week, which I’ve been doing. I use Cafiza too. I would love to scale that right back as it’s a bit of a chore. The only thing you should be doing weekly is giving your basket and your puck screen a weekly Cafiza bath in any cheap ultra-sonic cleaner. The sort you would use for cleaning jewellery. I think I got mine from Amazon for about £30. I do 2 cycles with a Cafiza solution in the sonic bath, and then drain that and do another 2 cycles with clean water to make sure all the detergent is washed away. Puck screens: As others have said, cut down on cleaning and can also increase your coffee quality due to better water distribution over the puck. Get one if you don't have one already.
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Apr 12, 2024 16:24
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I know hardly anything about coffee, but I live at 3000 ft elevation and I guess that means I should adjust the temperature coffee brews at? What's a decent drip coffee maker where I can do that? Also I'd like a timer.
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Apr 12, 2024 17:27
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Looks like max temperature for water at that height is 206°F / 97°C. That should be fine for drip / pour over / French press. You'll be much further along in your hobby / skill / gear progression before you reach the quality diminishing such a temperature matters. The typical dial in process will show you, through taste, what adjustments you need to make. 97C vs 100C might require a tiny adjustment in grind setting or brew time, but those adjustments are good practice any time you open a new bag anyhow. Sounds like you're on the start of your journey, so congrats! At this stage, tiny gear and skill improvements make a big difference, so you're in for a treat.
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Apr 12, 2024 20:12
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Fellow just announced their Aiden smart connected pourover machine for $365. It looks pretty cool if pourover is your jam: https://fellowproducts.com/products/aiden-precision-coffee-maker  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ydY4B6T1Y
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Apr 12, 2024 22:20
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That's pretty drat cool, and I am immediately regretting buying the OXO. I will just assume the gen1's will have tons of problems to make myself feel better.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:35
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Corb3t posted:Fellow just announced their Aiden smart connected pourover machine for $365. It looks pretty cool if pourover is your jam: I really don't trust this kind of thing to actually be disturbing the ground bed enough, especially when it's literally dripping out from the top. Think about the technique we use and the value we put on the flow from expensive gooseneck kettles. Guessing that hoffman will make a video saying that the coverage (with water) and temperature are much improved from normal coffee brewers but the lack of ground disturbance lets it down.
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Apr 12, 2024 22:42
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VelociBacon posted:I really don't trust this kind of thing to actually be disturbing the ground bed enough, especially when it's literally dripping out from the top. Think about the technique we use and the value we put on the flow from expensive gooseneck kettles. Guessing that hoffman will make a video saying that the coverage (with water) and temperature are much improved from normal coffee brewers but the lack of ground disturbance lets it down. Looks like a really fancy drip brewer to me too, yes. Does not look like it's a pour over method at all.
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Apr 12, 2024 23:53
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Looks like they slapped on one of those Delta shower heads that flicks the water around.
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Apr 13, 2024 00:01
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VelociBacon posted:I really don't trust this kind of thing to actually be disturbing the ground bed enough, especially when it's literally dripping out from the top. Think about the technique we use and the value we put on the flow from expensive gooseneck kettles. Guessing that hoffman will make a video saying that the coverage (with water) and temperature are much improved from normal coffee brewers but the lack of ground disturbance lets it down. Hoffman already did a video on a similar brewer. https://youtu.be/hM1cP555xt4?si=ojAlydD_IvxQE6Yl IIRC his impression was that it was better than he expected.
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Apr 13, 2024 01:28
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This is a great walkthrough of the Aiden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-C8VzKqhSw Some things of note: - Brew extractions beyond 22% - The shower head’s inner nozzles can provide enough water pressure for high agitation into your coffee bed. - They’re really hyping up the temperature control and stability throughout the process - lots of double walled materials and seals to keep steam in the coffee bed and basket. - Looks really nicely made - Giant removable water tank, wheels for counters without much vertical space, cable management. - 1 button SCA approved auto brew function. - Guided brew function to walk you through brewing specific bean profiles. - Preorder comes with 3x bags of coffee valued at $75. It looks really slick. I kinda want one. Corb3t fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 13, 2024 |
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Apr 13, 2024 15:12
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I did it! Consistent espresso/ristretto shots!! That don't taste like rear end!!! Of course the answer was puck prep. Specifically, a filter between the basket and the grounds. Thank you thread!
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Apr 13, 2024 17:49
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Corb3t posted:This is a great walkthrough of the Aiden: Me too, except I make drip strength about 4x per year, so probably not theHUNGERian posted:I did it! Consistent espresso/ristretto shots!! That don't taste like rear end!!! Hell yeah brother
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Apr 13, 2024 19:26
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don’t trust any sort of pre-release hype of anything
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Apr 13, 2024 20:07
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Non-cybertruck owner spotted
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Apr 13, 2024 20:24
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ulvir posted:don’t trust any sort of pre-release hype of anything This is the only right answer
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Apr 13, 2024 20:29
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It's going to be SCA certified, as well, so at the very least, it's as good as most similarly priced machines that everybody recommends like the Moccamaster.
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Apr 13, 2024 20:43
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Still amazes me how complicated they can make a pour over.
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Apr 13, 2024 21:08
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Mu Zeta posted:Still amazes me how complicated they can make a pour over. Who, people making coffee machines, or people on the internet discussing the best way to do a pourover?
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Apr 13, 2024 22:47
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