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Did you get that job Crimson? JR is phenomenal, I've loved the food and the wine lists every time I've been to one of his restaurants. What is everybody drinking recently? Tonight I opened a bottle of Unti Syrah, which is nice, but unremarkable, and a disappointment compared to their (cheaper) Rhone blend called Petit Frere. I have a bottle of Chateau Pierre Bise Anjou Gamay in the fridge chilling down in the hopes that I can salvage this evenings wine. Recent top bottles have been Domaine Philippe Tessier Cour-Cheverny, a 100% Romorantin oddity, various Bourgueils, probably my favorite appelation with the Bretons leading as my favourite producers, and a Library Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon from Sawyer which I am probably going to drink at my wedding. It's a big fruit bomb, but the oak is well integrated (read: hidden, so I don't notice it, which is a big old plus for me), and it will be an absolute crowd pleaser.
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Apr 21, 2012 06:03
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Crimson posted:I did! Manager/Sommelier at L'Atelier! Had my first night tonight, seems like it's gonna be a lot of fun. "I am protected" gets 50% off wine! Ok not really, but do we have any Vegas wine goons? drat!!! Congratulations! That's a pretty good gig, all told. Just make sure to get some more interesting wines on that list than Vegas places (with some few exceptions) tend to have, and you could be on to the second star.
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Apr 21, 2012 10:45
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If I were you, Wicaeed, I'd look for a Zinfandel by Ridge. Or, alternately, you could look for The Boxer or Two Left Feet by Mollydooker. I quite literally hate wines like those, but they have the big buxom low-acid red thing down, and are in the $25 range. Ridge is a very good wine that almost the entire wine world likes and respects. Mollydooker are certainly doing something out there in Australia, and it makes wine that a lot of people like to drink, but the wine geek in me cringes to recommend it, if you care about that sort of stuff. I believe the flavor that you didn't like that you're referring to is the astringency that a lot of wines have, typically attributed to tannins. Do you get an almost fuzzy feeling on your tongue from the wines you do not like?
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May 19, 2012 18:57
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Mr. Glass posted:I'm sure they make up for it with higher food prices. This is an unreflective and ill considered opinion. That said, with the exception of the somm, who will not sell less at full than without the law, a good retail store will have all those costs too.
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May 22, 2012 16:33
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Storage costs increase dramatically with a wine list the size of TFLs, as compared to your average restaurant. A lot of the bottles will have been stored on site for a very long time, others are auction lots, bottles not available at retail sourced from the domaine or distributors, &etc. While I am sure they markup a lot, and I'm sure that TFL is quite profitable, I would be very surprised if it was a particularly bad deal as compared to other roughly equivalent places.
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May 24, 2012 05:19
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Reading your intro, and the first few paragraphs od that article, I was expecting another very ho hum critique of natural wine to which I would have manifold objections. I was happily surprised to find it not so. That said, a few quick points. First, that there is no solid definition of what constitutes natural wine is probably a good thing. The term is fuzzy, like almost all natural language terms, and this movement if we can call it that is all about the joyous celebration of difference. Nailing it down would be antithetical. Second, the uncritical parroting of the tired lines about wine faults is boring. I like a bit of brett in my wine, and hate the taste of sulfur - common in lots of MSR Riesling produced at the state of the art, for example. And many natural winemakers would consider new oak influence a fault. The notion that it is inappropriate to judge natural wines and conventional modern wines by different scorecards is silly.
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May 29, 2012 19:53
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For many people, that's a large part of it. You should see if some of Dressner's selections are available in AU, or just look for bourgueil or saumur made biodynamically.
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May 30, 2012 03:00
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Alice Feiring is not representative of natural winemakers - and she didn't even manage to make wine that she'd call natural wine when she tried! I like to drink "natural wine" a lot. And I make a point of seeking it out. I don't think I've ever claimed that it's superior in any inherent sense. I'm also not attached to the label. I've never vilified anybody for their preference in different wine - in fact in this thread I recommended loving Mollydooker to someone because it was in their price range and something they'd probably like given their expressed preferences. But the minute I say that I'm interested in "natural wine," I am likely to get a screed about the definition, or how it's just a marketing term, or how it's dishonest, or how it's unscientific, or flawed, or tastes bad, or... I receive more vitriol for my like of this kind of wine than for anything else. If I were uncharitable I'd say that the dishonest, flawed, thing is to add glycerol and mega-purple to wine without disclosing it on the label to jack up the sweetness and mouthfeel. Or picking Sauv under-ripe to get the characteristic green apple (and maybe cat's piss) flavors. Or picking Zinfandel over-ripe and producing dull jammy wine with 10g/l rs. And @ Murgos - you're missing the point quite profoundly. The point is not to make the wine that tastes best (presumably what you mean by "the wine [came] out great"), the point is to make the wine that tastes truest, or most honest, or perhaps the wine that is truest or most honest. ETA: Drink it. It'll be nicer now than in 2 years, for example. My favourite application for an expensive bottle of wine that I can't find an occasion for is taking it to a burger place and drinking from tumblers.
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Jun 1, 2012 02:50
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Murgos posted:This sentence has no apparent meaning. It has words and they seem to be in some sort of order but there is no actual substance there. Define an 'true or honest wine' in some way that has meaning other than "didn't use some long established methodology and got a good result anyway" and maybe I'd be able to parse it. You're either an idiot, or you're being obstinate. Plenty of wine drinkers care about more than the taste of the wine. They care about whether the wine misrepresents itself, they care about the history of what is in the glass, or the historicity perhaps. I, and plenty of others, care about the role that the wine I am drinking right now plays in some larger narrative. Perhaps an analogy is in order. We commonly make distinctions in ethics between ethical systems which are deontological, and those which are utilitarian. There are, of course, other systems. But the distinction between the utilitarian ethical intuition and the non-utilitarian ethical intuition is a useful one. Is the murderer wrong because he killed a man, or because of the kind of person he is, because of the intent he had, &etc. When the man who intends to drat one thousand ends up, instead, through no fault or desire of his own, saving this same thousand, is he a demon, or an angel? We find these sorts of dilemma easy to parse. They are not complex. And the disagreement, too, is easy to parse. Simplifying things to just intent, or just results, is itself a strong position - one which requires more than throwing one's hands up to support. In this case, you are taking the utilitarian stand. You claim that "a good result" is what is important. You focus on what many people term "what is in the glass." I, and many natural wine fans, on the other hand, widen what we mean by "what is in the glass" to include it's context, the agricultural and cultural history behind it. I do, obviously, care about what my wine tastes like. But I also care about it's place in a narrative (viz, the role of humanity in the natural world) that I care deeply about. If you don't, or refuse to, see the potential importance of this kind of fact, then you are being willfully ignorant. If none of this has any purchase, then here is a putative definition of a true wine, and of an honest wine. A true wine expresses it's place. An honest wine does not misrepresent itself. Of course, in evaluating whether some wine or another meets these criteria we will appeal to our values: our identification of some reddish purple liquid as wine is itself value laden. And our identification of it as good, or as bad, flawed or delicious, all inherently and inescapably value-laden. If Kuhn and Feyarabend have taught us anything, it's this.
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Jun 2, 2012 06:19
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Selection Massale is an excellent mailing list. I could never bring myself to actually dive in and order, but I'm definitely thinking about switching away from Garagiste and onto SM entirely. Jeremy Quastana's wine is really, seriously, good. Perhaps less strange than some of the stuff Lemasson puts out, but the influence is definitely there.
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Jun 16, 2012 04:31
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That is essentially the problem! When I was on the list, I wanted literally every mailing they send out, and in volume. It's terrifying. I think I will sign up, though - Garagiste shipping is getting annoying, and as you said pick-up will be easy. Will have to get about 6 more bottles from them, though, to round out the case. Either way, signed back up for SM 
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Jun 17, 2012 02:20
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So buy older wine! http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1015648 http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1027655 http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1063677 http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1075162 All of these are really excellent, and the prices are quite good. Since storing most wine for longer than a few months or so requires fairly good conditions, and since there is a cost to purchasing storage equipment, and an opportunity cost to having a bottle in it for so long, and an operating cost in terms of electricity to run it, it's often cheaper to buy long-term aged wine at the aged price, if you can find it.
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Jun 18, 2012 18:05
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4liters of megapurple
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Jun 19, 2012 17:34
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I totally agree with this post. Excessive pyrazines can be unpleasant, but I've had far more wines that would have benefited from more of that green note than wines that were excessively green.
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Jun 23, 2012 04:40
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WanderingMinstrel I posted:Dear wine thread, please help. Alpha Omega would blow nickel and nickel out of the water. I often advise Sawyer, but they were recently bought by Foley Johnson so I don't know status. If they are open, the sawyer wines are a brilliant expression of Rutherford terroir. Biale is a great experience if you like zins. I don't, but I'm still taken in. Goosecross is fun early in the day when less busy. August Briggs is smaller, very nice cabs and a great experience. try to get up Howell mtn for Outpost - some of napa's finest wine. If you want to splurge, you will never have a better tasting experience than Kapscandy. Ever.
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Jul 12, 2012 04:56
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Jessup is dreck. I tend to have strong preferences about wine, but even wines of styles that I don't prefer I can drink and enjoy. At the Jessup tasting room we were poured multiple flawed wines. One corked, one cooked, one showing volatile acidity. In each case I told the guy about the problems, he smelled the wine, and then denied that anything was wrong. The two wines which were not flawed were a "port" which the guy pouring knew nothing about (apparently it gets to 20% alcohol without fortification, and is made just like real port, in Spain - despite all that, it was delicious) and a Pinot which was literally undrinkable though I couldn't identify specific flaws. I guess what I'm saying is, while other people might have had good experiences at Jessup, mine was so irretrievably bad by the end that I can't reconcile that with any sentiment expressing desire or recommendation to go there. That sentence got convoluted, but you get my drift?
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Jul 15, 2012 22:38
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Longtiem posted:So heres a fun game some of you might enjoy: I work at a restaurant that deals with "american only" food products, and that includes wine and beer. Consequently, the entire bottle and btg list is American, predominantly cali, etc. What would your wine list look like for a place like this? I've come up with my own btg list that I feel isn't total poo poo, but I'm interested to see what other nerds come up with. Price point is like 9 a glass. I can post the actual once someone weighs in but I don't wanna color anyones opinion. This is a fascinating question. I'm certainly not equipped to design a wine list, but if I had to design a US centric list, I'd focus on interesting producers with good stories that could be detailed on a list. I'd also focus on "Natural Wines"(TM) since it's so contentious as to draw the wine-geeky type in, and enough of them are sufficiently straightforward and delicious as to be perfectly acceptable to the non-wine geek. Lastly, I'd focus on California. I don't know any other region in the US like I know CA wine. All that said, if I had to design a wine list, it'd be full of the Mosel, the Loire, Savoie, Langhe, &etc. Donkey and Goat has an excellent Merlot released recently, something like 50 cases produced. That would be a nice wine. Fatto a Mano is cool, and has nice labels. I had their Primitivo a few days ago, and while a bit darker and more extracted than I tend to go for, it was very nice. Broc Cellars Vine Starr would make a good red/white house wine I'd say. Arnot Roberts makes excellent white and has some really great vineyard properties. Clos Saron produces wonderful reds, and even more wonderful rose. They are famed for Pinot (ignore that they are from California!). Unti makes some very good wine in a hotter climate than most of the above, and make a lot of nice and safe wines, but nothing flabby. Dashe Cellars makes one of the only Rieslings from this state that I like. Salinia has a good family story, and produces lovely wine. Only available direct and through a few restaurants. Giornata makes a lot of nice Italian varietals in California, with low sugar levels at harvest typically. Broadside is extremely friendly, as it were, and also in fitting with the rest here. Sorry I couldn't get down to individual wines &etc - I simply don't have the background to do so, but these are some lovely wines!
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Jul 31, 2012 07:41
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Happy Hat posted:Hey guys, Cellartracker is the de facto standard in the space, and for fairly good reason - it's by far the best option currently.
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Aug 2, 2012 16:11
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Did you check out Unti? That's a favorite of mine in the area.
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Aug 13, 2012 16:37
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LASER BEAM DREAM posted:I'll be visiting the Napa Valley area on short notice this Thursday and Friday. I've tried to set a few reservations at popular places like Nickel and Nickel for tours and tastings, but everywhere has been booked. Does anyone have any recommendations for wineries that don't require reservations, or would not be booked up yet? Here are two posts about this topic: pork never goes bad posted:Alpha Omega would blow nickel and nickel out of the water. I often advise Sawyer, but they were recently bought by Foley Johnson so I don't know status. If they are open, the Sawyer wines are a brilliant expression of Rutherford terroir. Biale is a great experience if you like zins. I don't, but I'm still taken in. Goosecross is fun early in the day when less busy. August Briggs is smaller, very nice cabs and a great experience. try to get up Howell mtn for Outpost - some of napa's finest wine. 4/20 NEVER FORGET posted:Beaulieu Vineyards reserve room is worth a stop as well. They have two rooms, one for the tourists looking to get sauced and another room with more serious wines, including some library wines. I had a great experience when I was there. I also enjoyed Grgich Hills, Frank Family, and Provenance. There is a little accompanying discussion, but not much really. If you tell us some of what you've drunk and liked before, perhaps I can give some more recommendations.
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Sep 11, 2012 05:41
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Just drank Pithon Paille "Grololo" Vin de Pays du Val de Loire last night, and it was absolutely incredible. This was definitely one of the best glou-glou wines I've had in a long time. The name and label are, well, interesting - Grololo is a play on "gros" for Groslot, the grape, but also meaning large, and "lolo," a child's slang term for breasts. Just a pity that the ATB didn't approve the French label, hah. Pithon Paille also make a really decent Bourgueil, and a sublime Savennieres. http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1093502
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Oct 6, 2012 21:54
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Argh, mix BATF and TTB in my head, and you get ATB, apparently a German DJ.
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Oct 6, 2012 23:16
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So today I had some Menetou Salon, a 2010 by Franck Millet. A wonderful Pinot Noir that tastes somewhat like Burgundy, but nothing like what you might expect if your experience to Pinot is what passes for such in my great state (CA?!?). Wonderful, bright, low alcohol. As always, it seems I can trust K&L. Next month, starting 11/1, I plan to drink only wine from 1990 or before for 2-3 months, largely as an experiment - aged wine seems to me to be wasted on me, despite my experience. I'd like to try a wide variety of older wine to get a handle on it. I've got a short list of plenty of bottles from K&L and some other local vendors (some old Couly-Dutheil, some Lanessan), but to last the quarter or so I want to devote to this, I'll need approximately 12 additional bottles. Any suggestions in SF or the Northern Bay Area? If people make suggestions, I'll track tasting notes and prices here - I reckon I can come under $30 per bottle and drink some wonderful old wine and have an experience that I couldn't otherwise have.
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Oct 26, 2012 07:33
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Full bodied red is, all things considered, quite a poor thanksgiving recommendation. Sparkling wine, perhaps a touch off dry, or lighter weight reds, think Burgundian, tend to be more versatile. A big red is just another big flavor, one which distracts rather than adding.
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Nov 22, 2012 04:00
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Thought I'd post the Thanksgiving wines I'm drinking with the family since I made a somewhat snarky post earlier. I suggested to think Burgundian before, and that's what we've done. But not Burgundy - some oldish David Bruce Chalone Pinot Noir. A 1995 Chalone, no vineyard called out, and then 1998 and 1999 Brosseau Vineyard. I like Brosseau a lot, and somewhat regularly drink Testarossa's Pinots from there, but have never had David Bruce's wine from the vineyard. Quite excited! We also have a smattering of other bottles (currently working on some Priorat, 2005 Mosaic, with my pops, some bubbly and miscellaneous whites including one Muscadet I really want to try). All in all, a good wine day On a slightly related note, did anybody else get their Garagiste shipment this season? I somewhat over-ordered - 6 cases arrived at my small San Francisco Apartment, and now I have yet another closet full of wine. I had room for maybe 16 bottles more! I've been making a dent in some other stuff I had, which I may post about later, but the Priorat I mentioned above is from Garagists. Anybody get anything cool/good?
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Nov 23, 2012 00:03
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To San Francisco CA I paid 16 per case.
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Nov 23, 2012 05:24
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It definitely depends on how much you get and on the weather. They get faster shipping if they have to ship during hot weather, for example, and then they pass the costs on to the purchaser with the upside that your wine is less likely to spoil on truck.
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Nov 23, 2012 07:07
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You can get phenomenal Pinot from menetou salon for under 20!!
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Nov 25, 2012 00:59
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Had a great night out at Terroir SF on Monday night - far too much wine for a Monday but a great experience nonetheless. If you're ever in sf I highly recommend it. Tonight I am drinking Blaufrankisch from Austria. Made by Weninger and from 08, it's light, a lot of cherry, raspberry, and a structured acidic backbone. Quite austere, and quite delicious. Another recommendation, for me, of strange grapes and strange regions.
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Nov 29, 2012 05:12
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How surprising a comment!
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Nov 29, 2012 07:33
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I'd link my CT, but it's totally out of date right now. Maybe I'll clean it up and get it posted. What did everybody have to drink over Christmas? We mostly drank Burgundy, all Morey wines, all that I got from Garagiste. Nothing too exciting, though the Aloxe-Corton 1er Cru from 04 was really very nice. It was a named vineyard - Les Vercots? Les Durots? I don't remember. We also had a white and a red Meursault from Morey, some awful CA Chard, 1990 Filhot (lovely, and a good price!), a Qupe Syrah (awful, just awful), and some bubbly of course.
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Dec 27, 2012 20:36
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For new years - faux loco. Not a night for classy wine, at least not for me.
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Dec 28, 2012 00:29
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You could get something from Bordeaux in 09 - supposedly the vintage of the century (according to Robert Parker, if you put stock in that). Branaire-Ducru is lovely and the 09 drinks well now, though it is quite unsubtle. If you're used to CA and WA cabernet sauvignon it may be right up your alley - a distinct qualitative upgrade on the $20 examples you've had whilst still being a sure-fire positive experience. Cayuse is a pretty solid recommendation given your stated palate as well.
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Jan 7, 2013 04:11
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I don't know about "probably isn't a wine in the world" - it's largely about the function the wine is filling. I regularly chill down super glou-glou reds to nearly fridge temp if they're 11% alcohol and I'm going to be sessioning all through a summer day. Or vinho verde, cheap sauvignon, pet nat, some gros plant or muscadet and oysters? Chill the gently caress out of all that, svp. That said, I totally agree that 75 degrees (or whatever room temp is) is significantly too hot for almost any wine.
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Feb 7, 2013 18:58
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Do you know how he is cooking it? Roasted gently caress breasts with a rosemary and Port jus will require different pairings than Peking duck with plum sauce, to make a stark contrast. White burgundy can be a good contrast to the fattiness in duck, though I tend to prefer a lighter red. Bernard Baudry Chinon would be a pretty good pairing.
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Feb 14, 2013 03:06
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Oh gosh, I didn't even see that.
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Feb 14, 2013 18:12
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I tend to find spice and wine to be a really poor pairing. People often recommend Riesling ory gewurtztraminer but neither seems any good at all to me. I'd stick to beer, or do vermouth and soda or the like.
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Jun 30, 2013 05:50
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Frankly, I'm far more excited about Gamay than anything else!
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Aug 19, 2013 20:43
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I always felt that the CellarTracker mobile site on the new design was pretty good. Otherwise, I'd just add them at home, frankly.
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Sep 25, 2013 04:38
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I'm a huge fan of Natural Wine, or whatever terminology you prefer. I know that idiotsavant (sorry for dropping off the face of the planet; personal stuff) who posts here a lot is also a big fan, and has in fact helped produce natural wine right here in California both for Clos Saron, and on his own. Personally I'm a huge fan of some of the stuff coming out of Anjou, particularly Grange aux Belles, and I think any of the Dressner wines is worth a look. I particularly like Olivier Lemasson, Clos du Tue Bouef, Clos Rougeard (sp?), and Clos Roche Blanc. Collier is a super solid non Dressner producer, made by the son of one of the brothers who runs Clos Rougeard.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:26
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