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This is a directly copy/paste of the OP of the previous wine thread because I feel it was very well done! (Credit to Mikey Purp) If you all think something needs to be added, let me know. A brief prologue: wine is a great passion of mine and something I could talk about all day. I intend this thread to be educational and useful, and hope that all goons with even a slight interest in wine will take advantage of this thread as a place to ask ANY question, to post tasting notes, and to pose discussion. Sophisticated notes about hints of the flowering herbs of Provence around a sturdy licorice background are welcome here, and so are people who simply say they popped and poured a Shiraz and it was great because it got them wasted in 2 glasses. The point is that this is a thread for all people interested in wine, snobs or no, and that no one should be trolled herein. The only rule is that you cannot simply say "this wine was good." You don't have to get flowery, but tell us what you liked or didn't like! I am hoping that this thread will really blossom into a no troll newbie friendly wino zone. So help me out and contribute and answer others questions! Finally, there are no dumb questions here. Please ask ANYTHING pertaining to wine, and myself and I'm sure others will always try our best to provide an answer. So let's learn about wine! "I have enjoyed great health at a great age because everyday since I can remember I have consumed a bottle of wine except when I have not felt well. Then I have consumed two bottles." -A Bishop of Seville  I. Introduction Oh, wine. Few things on this earth are so constant on the long path of human history. You can find wine in the Bible, in Shakespeare, in Plato, in Poe, and in the hands of some of the most feared and respected world leaders ever to live (a French wine from Burgundy called Chambertin was Napoleon's favorite, and may have been the vehicle that his servants on St. Helena used to slowly poison him.) Anyway, with such a long and varied history, and with literally an unlimited amount of flavors and styles possible, it's impossible for me to put enough information into this thread to turn the reader into an instant expert. My goals, instead, are simply to give you a quick crash course on the different grapes, regions, and styles that go into wine and wine making. My hope is that at the end of this thread, you will feel a bit more confident and amped up about the juice. Whether you're the kind of person who is just beginning, the kind of person who feels like they've never really "gotten" wine, someone who just wants to be able to look smart when ordering wine in a restaurant, or (like me) someone who likes getting wasted under the guise of sophistication, this thread should provide a great jumping off point. So without further ado, let's talk about the greatest beverage mankind has ever created! What makes wine so special? Wine is special because, for one thing, it has predated almost every other beverage on earth. From a culinary standpoint, wine is astounding because it is one of the only foods that is made purely from one ingredient, but where the outcome of the product is never standardized and is subject to the process, the materials used, and even the weather in the year that it is made. Not surprisingly, one of the only other foods that comes close as far as the sheer number of variations that can be derived from a very small list of ingredients is cheese. Great, blah blah blah, philosophy of wine, blah blah...step off it and tell us about the drat grapes already, you pretentious jackass! Right, so there are basically 4 factors that come into play when you are looking at a bottle of wine that can help you determine what the wine may taste like. Any bottle of wine you ever pick up will have these 4 pieces of information on it: •1.) The Producer The producer is who made the wine, and for more advanced wine snobs is one of the most important aspects of the whole shebang. As a beginner, you shouldn't worry too much about this either, but as you learn more about wine and earn a greater appreciation for it, you will soon find yourself remembering certain producers for good wines you have had in the past by them. In every region there are also "legendary" producers who consistently make amazing wines, and as you learn more, you will probably hear more about them from others. •2.) The Varietal Arguably the most important of all, the varietal is the type of grape (or grapes) used to make the wine. I'll get into an in depth description of each later on, so I'll keep it short here. The one main thing to note is that the varietal is often not explicitly stated on the bottle, particularly in “Old-World” wines where wines are traditionally classified by region and each region limits which grapes can be produced. Contrast this with the United States where, by law, a wine must be labeled with the grapes that makes up the majority (but not totality) of the wine. So you’ll never see a French wine labeled simply “Merlot” or a US wine identified only by region. Many other New World producers have followed the US way of doing things. For this reason, until you learn more about the different regions and what they produce, it is best to ask your local wine clerk the varietal of the wine if it is not specifically stated. While varietal is usually a sure-fire way to get a very general idea of what to expect out of the wine, it does not tell you everything, and just as important to the varietal is the... •3.) Vintage The vintage is when the wine was made. This is just as important as any other bit of info on the label, and in my opinion is one of the coolest parts about wine. A vintner can do everything in his power to make good wine, but in the end a huge amount of the process is dumb luck. Weather can make or break the grapes that go into a wine. This is why it's often a good idea to have a couple of "bookmarked" years that you know a certain region produced great wine. Note also that sometimes a wine will be NV or non-vintage, or have no noticeable vintage label at all. These wines are composed of juice from grapes produced over 2 or more years. In some cases (notably in Champagne), vintage releases are fairly rare and are only done in years of exceptional quality. In other cases producers just want to offer a consistent product and it’s easier to smooth things out by blending together juice from multiple vintages. As you learn more about wine, this will come to you more and more, so don't stress over it too much as a beginner. Lastly, you should notice... •4.) Region The region is where the wine is made, and is often also called the appellation. This is important because grapes are very expressive of the climate and soil from which they were grown. The French call this idea "terroir", and you will most likely encounter the term many times should you choose to learn more about wine. The French are some of the world's greatest and most long standing producers of wine, so it has become common practice among critics and wine snobs to talk about the wines "sense of place." What this means from a practical standpoint is just that good grapes and wine from different places taste different. For example, Australia is very well known for producing wine from a grape called Shiraz. This wine is entirely different from a wine made from the same grape in France (only in France they call it syrah). While Australian shiraz is known for being thick, full bodied, and "jammy," a French syrah is usually more subtle, spicy, and medium bodied. This is a very basic example, as even regions within a country make wines that are completely different, but you get the jist. One other thing I should touch on again is appellations and their relation to varietal and wine. A long time ago, the French were all like "hon hon magnifique, we are going to write and pass laws to regulate wine production instead of fighting in wars or working to overcome our sissiness. Joire de vive deja vu hon hon." The production of wine in France is thus very tightly controlled by an organization called the AOC. This does not mean that there are strict laws as to how much or who makes wine, but the AOC delineated all of the wine producing appellations in France and outlined what grapes can be used in each appellation, among other quality control measures. This is basically the French way of maintaining tradition, quality and style, and many of the other great wine countries in the world have similar systems in place. I mention this here mainly as a major caveat to what I said above about any bottle of wine having all four pieces of information I am listing here. In fact, traditionally the French sold wine based on its region, not its varietal. Therefore, you may find yourself looking at a bottle of wine trying to figure out what its made out of. Usually, the only way to know this is to know the customary style of the region, or, of course, asking the wine clerk. So, that's it. To judge a bottle of wine both before and after tasting it, you need to know the producer, the varietal, the vintage, and the region. Basically looking at a wine label will tell you, who, what, when, and where. As for the why, because it tastes good and it gets ya drunk. Now, let's take a look at a wine label and point out all of these pieces of info:  Ah, I found someone who did all the work for me. This is a very typical wine label (and a really nice wine if you ever have a chance to taste it). Notice that most of the points I mentioned above are listed somewhere on the label except for one: the varietal. As mentioned, because of the pesky French and their traditional way of marketing and buying wine, more often than not you'll be given the region only and left to fend for yourself. In this case, you'd have to know that Rioja is a region in Spain that produces red wines only from Tempranillo grapes. Again, we'll get more into appellations later on. For now, let's talk about some terms used to describe wine before getting into the varietals themselves. II. Some Fancy Wine Terms  Because there are so many different kinds of wine and one bottle of the same region or varietal can vary so much from another, over the years, wine lovers have developed a bunch of vocabulary words to describe the flavor and texture of wine. Yes, wine has texture, especially red wine. Remarkably, the more vocabulary you have to describe these flavor and textural sensations, the more you will notice them when drinking wine. •Dry: Dry basically means not sweet, and can also mean a high ratio of acidity to sugar in the wine. Almost all wine drinkers have a preference for drier wines, and aside from some whites and dessert wines, wine makers typically shoot for a wine that is on the drier side. This does not mean that a dry wine cannot be fruity, as these flavor profiles have more to do with aroma than actual sweetness. •Nose: The nose of a wine is of course, the way that it smells. A huge majority of the flavor profile you derive from a wine (and indeed, most foods) comes from aroma. For this reason, the nose of the wine is one of the most defining characteristics. Some would argue moreso even than the palate. •Palate: We all know what a palate is, and when talking about wine it is common to use the phrase “On the palate…” to describe the wines characteristics in your mouth. This can include flavors and aromas, weight, textures, acidity, tannins, etc. •Tannin: Eat a walnut. Notice how it makes the edges and back of your tongue very dry? This is tannin. Tannin is actually a chemical compound and a textural or tactile sensation on your tongue. Tannin is not a flavor, it is a texture. Wines get tannin from the skins and stems of the grapes, and for this reason red wines are significantly more tannic than white wines (red wines are fermented in contact with the stems and skins, which is where the red coloration comes from also.) Tannin provides Structure to the wine. One thing that many beginners have trouble with is differentiating between tannin and acid. The easiest way that I know of to tell the two apart is that acid actually makes your mouth water after the drying sensation, while tannin does not. •Body: The body of a wine is how “heavy” it is on your palate. This is mostly a tactile sensation, and the best way to describe it is to imagine the sensation of drinking water versus drinking whole milk. The thicker, richer milk would be said to be more “full bodied” than the water. In wines, body is often linked to alcohol content. Typically, a higher alcohol content results in a fuller bodied wine, although there are several other wine making techniques which can manipulate the body of a wine. •Finish: The finish is, as the name implies, what happens to your perception of the wine after it has left your palate. A good quality wine will linger on the palate after it has been swallowed. The most often described aspect of the finish is its length, meaning how long the wine’s qualities stay balanced on your palate after swallowing. Some of the greatest wines in the world are said to have finishes that are minutes long. For now, that should be sufficient for reading and understanding a description of any given wine. I have also tried to order these definitions in the way in which you should try to notice them. This leads us to our next lesson. III. TASTING  So all of this pontificating about grapes and wines could only lead to one thing: tasting them of course! The easiest way to quickly learn to appreciate wine is to understand the proper way to taste it. Wine is unlike any other alcoholic beverage, and it more than any other alcohol rewards thoughtful, slow consideration. Your very first sip of a wine should take upwards of one minute from start to finish. Afterwards, if it’s good, feel free to gulp that poo poo down like its college. The following is one proper way to evaluate and taste a wine, although you will most likely develop your own style. •1.) Note the wine’s appearance. It’s often helpful to hold the glass against a white background to best assess the color. What color is it? Does it appear thick or thin? Is there any sediment in the glass that would indicate an unfiltered wine? Take it all in with your eyes first. •2.) Note the wine’s nose. This is in my opinion the most important part. Get your nose down into the glass and sniff. Then, swirl the poo poo out of the wine while it’s in the glass and take some more short sniffs and then a good deep inhalation with your mouth slightly open. You’ll need to get over your fear of looking like a twat as it really is important to fully huff that poo poo. Try to pick out as much aroma as possible. Do you smell fruit? Leather? Stones (yes, stones have an aroma)? Start with a very broad sense of the different scents in the glass, and then attempt to get more specific. I.e. “I smell fruit, red fruits, like plum or cherry.” As you practice, you will learn to discern more accurately the aromas present in wines. •3.) Time to taste! Take a moderately sized sip of the wine, and allow it to move around in your mouth. DO NOT SWALLOW IMMEDIATELY! Note the initial taste as it touches your tongue and how it changes as it warms and develops on your palate. Swish the wine in your mouth, and if you’re bold, aerate it by opening your mouth slightly and sucking air bubbles through the wine. This is not just for show; it actually exposes the wine to oxygen in your mouth and allows more volatile flavor profiles to rise up into your olfactory bulb, where most of our sense of taste originates. Most often the first thing you will notice will be the fruit, followed by acidity and tannin. The change between the initial taste and the finish (which we talked about earlier) is called the midpalate. Some simple or extremely young wines don’t have a midpalate, and this is often seen as a mark of lower quality. As you swallow, take notice of how much you can feel the alcohol, how “hot” it is. Tannins and acidity can do a lot to mask the heat of the ethanol. Very pronounced ethanol heat is considered bad wine making (except, for some reason, in California.) •4.) After you’ve swallowed, evaluate the finish. How much does it linger on your palate? How long does the balance of each element remain after you swallow? And that’s about it. Above all, you should be concentrating on your first few tastes of a wine. What you concentrate on is up to you, personally I like to think about the winemaking process and what may have contributed to a certain quality, but others like to think about how well the wine represents terroir or varietal character. It may be easier for you to describe a wine in terms that have nothing at all to do with tastes and aromas, but by emotions or mental pictures instead. A Bordeaux may be the equivalent of that seductive woman eyeing you from across the room, and a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc may remind you of a bike ride in the country or sitting in a rocking chair on a farm porch. This website is actually one of my favorite wine review sites, and it uses no words at all! In the end, you should have your own objectives in how you taste the wine, and you should always decide for yourself whether you enjoy a wine or not. IV. The Holy Grail: Balance There has been a lot of talk in this post about balance, but I haven’t really filled you in on exactly what the gently caress balance is. Balance, simply put, is how each element in a wine works together with, and complements (or detracts from), every other element in a wine. I think the best way to present this concept in an easily understandable manner is to apply the idea of balance to a less complex beverage which I’m confident has found itself into the hands of the majority of this audience:  Hell. Yes. So, imagine you are at you local 7-11 and you just picked up a giant bag of Doritos After Dark: Tacos at Midnight flavored tortilla chips. There is nothing better to wash that poo poo down than the Dew, so you mosey on over to the soda fountain and fill up a Big One. There are basically three components to Mountain Dew. You have your syrup, you have your water, and you have your carbonation. Now, imagine that the seltzer water that mixes with your syrup to create this deliciousness is flat. Now your soda will taste extremely sweet and way too thick. Even though the amount of syrup and water has not changed, the lack of carbonation has completely changed the qualities of the drink. The carbonation can be thought of as an analog to tannins and other textural components in the wine. When tannins are too soft or nonexistent in wine, the fruit and alcohol become too pronounced, and you lose balance. Another example: imagine the same situation but the syrup dispenser has run out. You’ll now have some off-yellow seltzer water in your cup. While a lot of people drink and enjoy seltzer water, when you’re expecting Mountain Dew, that poo poo is unacceptable. The syrup provides (most of) the flavoring for the drink and can be related to the fruit components of the wine. The fruit qualities are basically the qualities of the juice that was fermented to make the wine. Wines can be considered “concentrated” or “diluted.” More concentration in a wine is desirable, but in some cases, a wine can be too concentrated. As in the example with the Mountain Dew, a wine can also be very dilute. This usually means that the juice or the fruit was of inferior quality, or that the winemaker’s practices suck. Additionally, even if the wine is nicely concentrated and the flavors are intense, the actual fruit flavors can be “underripe” or “overripe,” just like a regular piece of fruit.  Finally, the last possible situation is that you get carbonated syrup. Now, I’m not sure how that could really happen mechanically speaking, but we’ll go with it anyway. In this situation you have some nicely textured but extremely sweet and thick syrup. The water in the seltzer is comparable to the alcohol in your wine. This is the only thing that isn’t a perfect comparison, but you should get the idea. The alcohol in the wine adds depth, texture, and tempers the sweetness of the fruit. Alcohol also serves as the vehicle that a lot of the aromas use to actually get to your olfactory bulb. Without alcohol, you just have fancy Welch’s. Too much alcohol and you miss out on a lot of the other aspects of the wine. Obviously, these examples are extreme in that we completely remove a component of the drink, but it should give a good picture of what balance in a wine means. In wine you have endless combinations of fruit (and sugar), alcohol, and tannins and other textural components like acid. Balance is when these components are all in harmony. Obviously, balance is different for each person depending on your tastes, and as you drink more and different wines you’ll become more familiar with where your own preferences lie. More than likely your tastes will change drastically as you become more familiar with wine. Finally, the last possible situation is that you get carbonated syrup. Now, I’m not sure how that could really happen mechanically speaking, but we’ll go with it anyway. In this situation you have some nicely textured but extremely sweet and thick syrup. The water in the seltzer is comparable to the alcohol in your wine. This is the only thing that isn’t a perfect comparison, but you should get the idea. The alcohol in the wine adds depth, texture, and tempers the sweetness of the fruit. Alcohol also serves as the vehicle that a lot of the aromas use to actually get to your olfactory bulb. Without alcohol, you just have fancy Welch’s. Too much alcohol and you miss out on a lot of the other aspects of the wine. Obviously, these examples are extreme in that we completely remove a component of the drink, but it should give a good picture of what balance in a wine means. In wine you have endless combinations of fruit (and sugar), alcohol, and tannins and other textural components like acid. Balance is when these components are all in harmony. Obviously, balance is different for each person depending on your tastes, and as you drink more and different wines you’ll become more familiar with where your own preferences lie. More than likely your tastes will change drastically as you become more familiar with wine. V. Some great advice from this thread: On distinguishing a wine's characteristics: Subtlet posted:I've heard this from many different people and, as an enthusiast, I feel drat near obligated to have a response to it now. The more people who hang on to this opinion, the more they influence other people getting into it, and without experience or vocabulary, it's easy to quote others. The pool grows, and, if the challenge isn't answered, wine retains it's image of an "exclusive" culture. On the beautiful fortified wines of Tokaj, Hungary: 4liters posted:Tokaj is a place I think people should visit at least once in their lives, the wines are fantastic (and for the moment, really good value) and the food is great. oh and Hungarian women are better looking than the ones back home... VI. Wine-related websites and blogs http://wineberserkers.com/forum/ Other than Cellartracker, I use this website more than any other wine-related site. The forums are full of useful knowledge, and seriously wine-industry drama is posted regularly along with tasting notes and other wine ramblings. The users of this forum range from industry to bloggers to consumers, the discussions here are often very useful and interesting. pork never goes bad posted:http://www.cellartracker.com/new/ http://wine-by-benito.blogspot.com/ Benito is a sometimes poster in these threads, and also a wine blogger. He writes very good posts that tend to be quite short. benito posted:If anyone checks out my blog, please check out some of the links I've got to sites like Dr. Vino, Vinography, and others. I think goons might enjoy the irreverent wit and pop culture references of my friend Joe at Suburban Wino. Again, all credit for this thread goes to Mikey Purp. 4/20 NEVER FORGET fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Sep 21, 2011 |
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Sep 20, 2011 13:46
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About keeping the wine you collect safe:4/20 NEVER FORGET posted:When I first started collecting wine I knew nothing about how to properly store wine and by the time I had collected my first 100 bottles, I had damaged nearly half of them unknowingly. That was a sad few months as I would open bottle after bottle to either find the cork wet and/or have the wine taste like complete crap. My apartment is only 600 square feet and heats up and cools down quickly. Overwined posted:Listen to this guy. Most people should probably be happy buying wines and drinking them within 6 months, tops. But for those of you that want to age or collect your wines, there is nothing (and I mean nothing) more disappointing than opening up a bottle you had scrimped and saved for, then watched just sit there for years and years just to tear of the capsule to see wine spewing out the cork. It's about the waste of money, yes, but more importantly it's all that squandered expectation. 4/20 NEVER FORGET fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jan 3, 2012 |
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Sep 20, 2011 13:47
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To talk a little about "pork never goes bad" wines from the last page, did you ever try looking up the wines on cellartracker? 2007 Domaine des Baumard Savennières Trie Spéciale (France, Loire Valley, Anjou-Saumur, Savennières) - Sounds like this one will be awesome. It looks like you could drink it now or age it and be happy either way. 2008 Château Yvonne Saumur-Champigny (France, Loire Valley, Anjou-Saumur, Saumur-Champigny) - I'm not a huge fan of Cab Franc from this region, I've had many good ones but nothing that ever wowed me. No notes on your vintage but if you look into previous vintages it seems to be a nice bottle of wine. The other one doesn't have much on CT, and I have no experience of it.
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Sep 20, 2011 14:50
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When I have more time I will put together a section that is wine suggestions at or under $15 that is broke down by Red and White wine, then varietal. The question of a good cab/chardonnay/syrah/whatever wine around $10 gets asked a lot, so I will skim the entire old megathread for all of the suggestions and add them. Suggestions here are also welcome, but I would like to keep it to wines that are easily sourced and have a good distribution. I know I have many right off the top of my head, as I am sure most of the more experienced people in this thread have as well. AgentONeal posted:I'm taking advantage of my employer's .5 cent wine sale right now and trying some new things. I love when places have sales on wine. We have local supermarkets that do a %10 off 6 bottle mixed discount on top of their end of year sale prices, when they have their yearly sale where they are trying to blow out some of their stock I usually go stock up on drinkers.
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Sep 21, 2011 05:11
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4liters posted:Your best bet however is to become a drinking machine who can finish off that bottle of Riesling in a single sitting. I don't think I've ever opened a bottle of Riesling at home and had it not get finished that night. Riesling, specifically German Riesling, goes down like apple juice.
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Sep 28, 2011 13:19
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pork never goes bad posted:Benito also mentioned real estate, which is fair enough. One other thing to take into account when dealing with 'single vineyard' bottlings, ie: the grapes that make the wine in that particular bottle are from only one vineyard or parcel of a vineyard within a wine growing region. Many times estates (at least here in Oregon) have a certain level of quality expected from the single-vineyard bottlings, this means (usually) only the best fruit from that vineyard makes it into the wine in the bottle, sub-par fruit (or in some cases, entire barrels of wine if the barrel doesn't taste good enough to blend) get declassified and blended into the estate's cheapest blended wine. These factors also raise the price of the bottles significantly for the cost of sorting and in some cases, having only a very small of actual wine get produced under the single-vineyard label.
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Sep 29, 2011 00:38
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Perfectly Cromulent posted:2008 is a great vintage in Oregon, probably the best in the last 10 years or so. Most of what you have is mid to high-end stuff that will have no problem aging for 5 to 10 years. The Crowley and White Rose Estate are probably exceptions and should be opened in the next year or so. Most of the rest will be really good for about 5. 10+ years is possible, especially for stuff like the St. Innocent White Rose Vineyard (such a good wine). Perfectly Cromulent is right. I could see the Crowley and White Rose Estate being youthful for another 3-5 years but they are more designed for the short term. The other stuff though should age past 5 and into the 10 year and possibly further area. The only exception for myself is the St. Innocent wine, I've had 12 year old wines from them (95 and 96 Freedom hill to be exact) that were completely dead, so personally I wouldn't hold those ones past 5 years OR just keep a close eye on cellartracker. Perfectly Cromulent talks about a Eyrie tasting he went to recently, user Subtlet was also at that and wrote an amazing write-up on it here: http://www.cellartracker.com/new/event.asp?iEvent=15174 Also, user Subtlet and I went to a tasting organized by the wineberserker.com forums where we tasted many old vintages of Oregon wines that were still very much alive, this time my notes: http://www.cellartracker.com/event.asp?iEvent=14877 I tend to like my Oregon Pinots right on that edge where they are still showing youthful fruit but there is still some secondary flavor that comes from age. You owe it to yourself to find out whether or not you like them old or young first before you age the wines. The nice thing about most of those wines you posted is that they will be drinking pretty drat well for their entire lifetime. Nice collection of 2008's, btw. I threw my credit card at 2008 Oregon Pinots as well, buying about 75 bottles in total.
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Oct 9, 2011 07:59
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4liters posted:drunk abuot $700 of wine tonight dnot remembermuch but it tasted pretty fukcen good This was me last Thursday night. Big rear end steak dinner with some wine friends, the highlights of the night: 2005 Chateau Carbonnieux blanc 2001 Chateau Pape Clement 1995 Chateau Leoville Las Cases 1989 Chateau Lynch Bages 2005 Chateau Rieussec 2001 Leonetti Cabernet Sauvignon 2003 Peter Micheal 'Esprit des Pavots' Had a pretty good hangover the next day. It was awesome.
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Nov 20, 2011 15:27
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The critic everyone loves to hate on, Jay Miller, is stepping down from his position at WA. I wish I could read the thread on the eBob forums regarding this. http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2011/12/05/jay-miller-leaves-the-wine-advocate/ I had heard rumors in the past of him taking gifts from wineries or regions based on his reports of various wineries and areas. I wonder how much of those were true?
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Dec 7, 2011 09:06
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Shooting Blanks posted:drat...this thread is gonna make me go out and buy a bunch of wine shortly :o I've heard 2009 was considered a remarkable vintage in Burgundy. Most of the Cru Beaujolais has already sold though. The Beaujolais wines I have tasted from 2009 were amazingly good for at their price points. I haven't tasted much in the way of actual 2009 Burgundy wines though. 2007 was considered a very good vintage in California for big red wines/blends. As for Oregon, so far there hasn't been a vintage since 2008 that is anywhere near that level of quality for the vintage. The 2009 has just been OK, kind of like a mix of 2006 (hot year, big abv%) and 2007 (moderate year, some thin wines). 2010 Oregon has been surprisingly good so far. Some wines have been obviously chaptalized, but there have been some really interesting wines I have tasted in the 11%-12.5% abv range that still show great flavor intensity.
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Dec 18, 2011 08:38
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I got pretty drunk today. It was awesome.
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Dec 24, 2011 09:26
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On young wines with no sediment I've stopped using my decanter and just give them the "Mollydooker shake". This whole video is stupid as hell but the process works just as good for "decanting" young wines. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrt9G-q2Zy0 With older wines, they tend to have more sediment so I still use my decnater mainly for getting rid of the sediment.
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Dec 28, 2011 14:07
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dphi posted:Still going to do this? God drat you Mike, attempting to hold me to do something I said I would do.... Yea, when I get around to it. Question is when, so if anyone wants to compile that information themselves and post it I'll quote it in the OP.
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Jan 3, 2012 09:59
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My favorite rose wine: Domaine Tempier Bandol Rose https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=1094681 It's gotten a bit expensive, but when you want something more complex and interesting from your Rose, there is no substitute. 4/20 NEVER FORGET fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jan 10, 2012 |
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Jan 10, 2012 03:39
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pork never goes bad posted:I really liked it, though I think I'd rather drink regular Palmer or a softer Margaux next time. (Kirwan? Malescot St Exupery? Alter Ego.) What was the price of this wine? Problem with regular Palmer is us simple folk can't afford the poo poo. I have yet to taste a wine from Chateau Palmer for this reason. For the same price I can get two or sometimes even three bottles of Comtesse de Lalande or Pontet-Cantet. Not that I am even batting that heavy that regularly, but when I do get the occasional bonus check from work I tend to throw it at a couple bottles of fancy Bordeaux. Palmer has always been just out of reach. EDIT: Just looked up the price, it's pretty drat expensive. (over $150) In that case then yes, I'd probably just go for their Grand Vin. 4/20 NEVER FORGET fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Jan 25, 2012 |
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Jan 25, 2012 10:21
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Perfectly Cromulent posted:Do you have access to a quality wine shop? Developing a relationship with a wine merchant and getting to know the local wine geeks are two of the best ways to get into wine. This is a good suggestion. Find a wine shop, talk to the owner/whoever works there, tell them the wine you liked and what you liked about it and what price you are willing to pay for wine. They will be able to steer you toward at least a few suggestions. Drink the wines he sells you and keep basic notes on them and whether you liked them or not. Go back to the same retailer and tell him what you thought. Through doing this he will be able to guide you to stuff you will probably end up falling in love with. I went the route of buying whatever looked/sounded cool for a while and it was nothing but heartache. Once I got hooked up with a good wine shop he was able to show me the good stuff all over the world in a much quicker amount of time. (I would say cheaper because I was buying less plonk, but the amount I started spending on the good stuff quickly balanced that out  )
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Feb 21, 2012 16:01
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UHH OHHHHHHHHHHH It's already been discussed, but I am discontinuing my relationship with Garagiste because I make the mistake of checking my email drunk and end up buying too much wine.
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Feb 22, 2012 04:07
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That Prum GH Spatlese is going to be awesome, that looks like a really fun tasting.
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Mar 21, 2012 15:44
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Some Portland wine goons got together for a blind sparkling wine tasting recently at Mattdev's place. Overall it was a fun tasting and very surpising to see a bottle of Gloria Ferrer Sonoma Brut sparkling wine place so highly in scoring amongst the crowd, I love blind tastings and how it levels the playing field. These are my notes: https://www.cellartracker.com/event.asp?iEvent=17337
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Mar 26, 2012 10:30
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Tweek posted:I've been saving this bottle for a special occasion. Not sure what yet. I have it in my mind it would be cool to save it until someone has been born who would be impressed by the year 2005. I love my Bordeaux so I will try and help you out here. One thing I like to do with these cheaper Bordeaux wines is look back at previous vintages that are similar or well regarded and see how the wine held up. Looking at 2000, there are a couple of good notes that give hope that the wine will hold together for five or more years. Looking back a bit further, some notes mention the wine losing it's fruit, or being "over the hill". My advice would be to drink it with a good meal sometime soon, especially if it has not been properly stored. Wine is very much a living thing, and some wines do not respond well being left at room temperature in an temperature uncontrolled enviroment. If it has been properly stored, sure, sit on it another couple-few years and keep an eye on cellartracker scores. If it's been in a drawer under the sink or a liqour cabinet for the last 5 years I would say pop it and drink it now as it might have problems. How long have you had it? I used to be a person who bought Bordeaux wines on release with the intention of saving them for a special occasion. Eventually I found out that Bordeaux wine is some of the easiest wine to get on the secondary market that has already been aged. Maybe not the cheaper examples like this one, but there is a ton of classed Bordeaux with age out there for sale. Unless I find a good deal I have pretty much stopped buying. I DO still buy the cheaper stuff on release though. One other thing: 2005 was a very well regarded year in Bordeaux, if you ever want to buy someone a birth year wine down the road, I guarantee you that you will be able to source a bottle from 2005 rather easily. (though not cheaply) That vintage will be available forever as it has good aging potential. Second edit: Just because a vintage is regarded as good does not mean the wine will age well. Some wines, like these cheaper Bordeauxs, just don't have the ability to age that long. A wines ability to age depends on many factors, producer, age of vineyard, terroir, etc etc. 4/20 NEVER FORGET fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Jun 10, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 13:48
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Alexander the Grape posted:"Cheap" is a very relative term. What 4/20 means isn't that it's the French equivalent to Two-Buck Chuck or that it isn't a nice wine. Bordeaux is just expensive in general, so to many people even a $50 bottle is on the "cheap" side. Thank you Alexander for responding to that. The wine you have here is probably quite good at the price, as the CT notes suggest. As you said though it has been stored under sub-optimal conditions so I would get into sooner rather than later, with a hearty meal of red sauce pasta or a steak. If you like Bordeaux, check out wines from the 2009 vintage. They are more forward with their fruit and are drinking quite well young.
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Jun 18, 2012 09:00
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Beaulieu Vineyards reserve room is worth a stop as well. They have two rooms, one for the tourists looking to get sauced and another room with more serious wines, including some library wines. I had a great experience when I was there. I also enjoyed Grgich Hills, Frank Family, and Provenance. One interesting thing I noticed, I went there with SA user 'Subtlet' and we both were taking notes on the wines we were tasting at every stop. Many producers thought we were wine press, and despite us telling them we were simply writing notes for cellartracker, they proceeded to pour us just about anything and everything we wanted. This happened at many of the stops throughout the three days we were there. I think they must get a lot of people just looking to get sauced so when someone shows up that is actually paying attention to what they are tasting, that seems to open the doors to more things. Also, many very expensive tasting fees were waived with bottle purchases. We did a lot of wheeling and dealing in this and were able to score some good deals and "save" some money. (I say "save" because instead of paying $25 for the tasting fee and leaving with nothing, I'd pay $50 and leave with a $50 dollar bottle of cab or whatever, you get the idea.
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Jul 15, 2012 02:46
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My experience with Jessup wines, while limited to their Juel and Table for Four, has been positive.
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Jul 16, 2012 01:51
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Cali Pinot? Brewer-Clifton is the bomb. I was also recently introduced to Taley, which was very enjoyable.
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Jul 17, 2012 01:40
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Man, I have tried to make a all-american wine list more than a few times for this thread and each time I end up getting frustrated and deleting the whole thing, mainly because I don't know poo poo about California. Here is what I can say about Oregon though: Whites: Elk Cove Riesling or Pinot Blanc, as others have mentioned. Brooks Riesling - I think their Willamette Valley bottling is pretty boring but every other Riesling they make is truly wonderful. Crowley Chardonnay - Dude is knocking it out of the park on this grape, his fancy bottlings are great but even his Willamette Valley bottling is something special. Teutonic Wine Company - These guys are turning out some awesome Rieslings at around or under $20. Argyle: Their brut year on year is consistent and pretty good at $22-24. It ages surprisingly well. De Ponte Cellars Melon de Bourgogne: One of my favorite whites every year. Super fresh, perfect summer wine. Trisaetum Rieslings - they make a few different wines here, either single vineyard or quality designate. All of them are very good. Abacela Albarino - these guys are absolutely owning this grape in Southern Oregon. Probably my favorite wine period from that region. Cowhorn - For their Rhone whites, their Roussanne in particular. Cameron Chardonnay - Their $20 Dundee hills bottling owns. Reds: Eyrie estate grown Pinot Noir: awesome at ~$30. I'd go with that before Domaine Drouhin. Seven of Hearts WV Pinot Noir: Comes in around $18-20. About what you'd expect for complexity at that price point but the way this guy builds these wines, the acidity is never harsh and these are very easily accessible to anyone. I love his entire portfolio which also includes the "luminous hills" label. De Ponte Cellars 'dundee hills' Pinot Noir: Another one of my favorites year over year. Neighbors Domaine Drouhin. The winemakers grew up together. I love Domaine Drouhin but if I had to pick between the two I would always pick the De Ponte. Grochau Cellars Pinot Noir: All of his wines are really pretty with good acidity. His WV bottling is great at ~$20. He makes some Syrah and red blends that are very good as well. I'll try and come up with more later after I've had my morning coffee. Perfectly Cromulent posted:Can't believe no one in this thread mentioned Teutonic Wine Company yet. They make some of the most distinctive new world Rieslings, IMO. Brooks also makes terrific Riesling. Cameron, Crowley, and Eyrie are making great Chardonnay. Tyson Crowley might be making some of the best QPR Chard in America right now. Quoted for truth. Brickhouse also makes good Gamay Noir. Overwined posted:I don't know if you could hammer St. Innocent Pinot Blanc into the $9/glass range, but I would do something to make it fit. Same here... I don't know why Pinot Gris gets all of the attention it does when most of the Pinot Blancs I have had from Oregon are usually always more interesting.
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Aug 2, 2012 01:38
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Subtlet and I hung out tonight and drank a 2010 Cameron 'Dundee Hills' Pinot Noir that was absolutely smoking. Amazing QPR at $25 a bottle. I buy a few Cameron Pinots year on year. They make good stuff. I can't wait to see what their top end 2010's a like.
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Aug 2, 2012 08:45
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I'm in Healdsburg on vacation. I'm more excited to go drink beer than go tasting at wineries. Did Bear Republic yesterday and going to hit Russian River Brewing today. I went out tasting a couple days ago with Ridge being my favorite stop. Their 2007 Montebello is really good poo poo, as is most of their wine really. The rest of the stops were pretty boring, ended up going with a group and I wasn't dictating our course. Lots of Zinfandel in dry creek, and I'm not really a fan to begin with.
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Aug 13, 2012 16:14
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I had a great time when I went there. Sat down, got their vegetarian sandwich with bacon on it and drank through a massive taster tray of every beer on tap. Their honey hefewiezen was awesome as was their sour beer at the end of the flight. Ended up sitting next to some cool locals at the bar, talked about cars, beer and wine for 3 hours straight. The bottled beer I have had from Bear Republic has always been quite good in my opinion as well.
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Aug 27, 2012 13:16
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Perfectly Cromulent posted:Remind me to open a bottle of Zin from Hillcrest in the Umpqua Valley sometime. It's 13% ABV and tastes kind of like Barbera. Weird. Word. Bring that poo poo to Karl's place on the 15th.
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Aug 27, 2012 13:17
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Perfectly Cromulent posted:I drank it all. Won't be able to get more in time. I guess you'll have to bring some Champagne to make up for it. 
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Aug 28, 2012 07:40
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Overwined posted:You West Coast Winos have all the fun. Offer still stands, if anyone from this thread lands in Portland, OR and wants to go check out the Willamette valley, send me a PM and I'll see if I can line a day up to take you out tasting.
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Sep 3, 2012 13:02
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My teeth stain really bad when I drink red wine. Less so if it's something light like Pinot Noir, but if am tasting a line-up of cabs or something, by the end of the tasting my teeth look horrible. I am usually able to wipe a good amount of it off with a wet paper towel. I agree though, it's annoying. My lips also stain easily. If I get really drunk on red wine my lip skin will stain so deeply it beds in like a tattoo. For the next day or two until that skin dies and goes away I have obvious red wine stains on my lips like I have been sipping wine all day. Kind of sucks when you have to go to work looking like that.
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Oct 3, 2012 03:03
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That is awesome, congrats. I love RRV Pinot and Chardonnay, I can imagine that is a pretty sweet gig. I love that area as well, I was just down there on vacation a couple months ago. If you ever want to trade some wine, send me a PM. While I love RRV wine, I know very little about it. I can give you a link to my collection on cellartracker if you're interested.
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Oct 6, 2012 18:18
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Loving those photos, 4liters, thanks for sharing. I love this time of year, my Facebook feed is filled with harvest and winery photos as all of the wineries ferment and the put the wines in barrel.
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Nov 8, 2012 00:52
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Perfectly Cromulent posted:People think they can get good Pinot Noir for $20. Mostly, you can't. Yeah, I know that there are some wine nerds here (including me) who could probably name some obscure Pinot Noir that drinks well for $20. I love Pinot Noir, but it is one of the worst values in wine. I used to be the guy who would disagree with you about this but I agree with it now. Especially if you live in a place where your selection is not as good; here in Portland there are MANY great Oregon Pinot Noir wines you can buy around $20. Having taken recent trips to CA and AZ, that is not the case. I am sure it is probably the same in other wine growing regions around the world, the good, underpriced, over-performing examples get snapped up fast, usually locally. The wines on my thanksgiving table were: 2010 Weingut Jakob Schneider Niederhäuser Hermannshöhle Riesling trocken MAGNUS and 2009 Fausse Piste Syrah Riverrock Vineyard (USA, Oregon, Walla Walla Valley) Both low alcohol, food friendly wines that ended up being perfect. My mom said the Riesling was the best wine she had tasted in her life, and my step-father said the Syrah was the best wine he had tasted I his life. Both are not wine people, so it's pretty easy to wow them. Anyone following all of the recent drama with Garagiste? It looks like that historic German cellar 3-pack offer was a complete bust. Some great reading on both Wine Berserkers and Cellartracker. https://www.cellartracker.com/forum/tm.asp?m=237654&mpage=1&key=
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Nov 25, 2012 08:13
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I used the old version of the site up until the very day they switched. I thought it would be harder to use than it is, but the new site is pretty easy if you already had a good idea how to use the old one. The things like being able to add comments to tasting notes, or say whether you like/dislike a wine, as well as vote whether or not a note was helpful, are pretty awesome additions. I learned a long time ago not to check reports on how much I spend on wine. It only ends in tears. Let's all be CT friends now that we can do that sort of thing: https://www.cellartracker.com/user.asp?iUserOverride=66417
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Dec 23, 2012 13:59
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It's an inexpensive wine that probably shouldn't have been aged that long. Who knows though, I'd pop a bottle to yourself before giving the other away. Aging a wine doesn't always make it better. https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=295329&searchId=909B24CE
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Dec 26, 2012 18:53
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I ended up working Christmas Eve and Chrismas this year, but plan on going to visit family soon to exchange gifts. For that I have a bottle of Cameron 'Ramato' skin-macerated Pinot Gris and a bottle of that 2008 SuGaSy Syrah that Garagiste sold a while back. It's pretty drat good for the $20 they charged and my parents love Syrah. What are you guys planning on drinking for New Years? I'm thinking some Pierre Peters NV BdB Champagne.
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Dec 27, 2012 23:32
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that Vai sound posted:I'm thinking something French or Californian, but being from Washington I may find better deals on state wines. I'm not sure what style though. French wine regions I know nothing about, and I'm mainly used to American cabs, which might be more aggressive than I'm looking for. One of the best Syrah producer's in the entire world is based in Washington and has wines priced right around what your are looking to spend: Cayuse. Nearly every wine lover I know that has had their wines loves them and they are considered at the very top of top Syrah producers in Washington. It should be reasonably easy to get a bottle from a dedicated wine shop if you went in and asked where you might buy some, at least they could point you in the right direction. From what I hear their wines are quite the experience, although I have not had the luck of having one yet. But as Cromulent said, for $100, you have a lot of options. Hell, you could buy some pretty good Burgundy or Northern Rhône Syrah for that amount of money.
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Jan 6, 2013 18:01
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 19:07 |
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drat Crimson.... ballin' outta control
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Feb 19, 2013 13:50
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