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I've been trying to cook pizza forever, and I've never really made one that came out very well. I've used all sorts of recipes, but no matter what they just never taste quite right. I use a pizza stone and preheat the oven to 550 (hottest my oven will go), and I let the dough rise a whole night before cooking and everything, but no matter what it just never tastes right. It gets charred reasonably well on the bottom, but like today I tried and it just tasted kinda stale and chewy and not really in a good way. The things I think might be the problem are: - Not kneaded enough. I have a kitchenaid stand mixer that I use the dough hook with but I'm always pretty skeptical of whether it's actually kneading it well, or just moving around not really accomplishing anything. I can't really ever windowpane the dough or anything, no matter how long I mix it. I've tried to knead it by hand for awhile but honestly that doesn't really seem to help that much either. - Too dry. I'm kinda wondering if my dough is just too dense because it's too dry, but I'm not really sure how to tell. - Flour too old. I used bread flour this past time today that I think is a few months old. Does flour get to the point where you need to replace it or it'll make things taste stale? Sorry if this an idiot question if the answer is yes, I'm sort of new to cooking and really like pizza so I wanted that to be the first thing I got really good at making. I'm hoping someone has some suggestions. I thought about ordering 00 flour but I was taking the Good Eats advice of just using bread flour. Not sure if that would make a big difference. The problem I have though is it's very hard to communicate exactly what my problem is with the taste or texture through here because I don't really know how to describe it. It just tastes kinda flat or something, and really chewy but not like in a good way.
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Jun 30, 2013 03:18
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Veritek83 posted:What recipe are you using for the dough? I'm guessing that you're not putting enough water in, but without your recipe, it's tough to tell. It's hard to say because I kinda switch off hoping one will be better than the other. The one I tend to try going back to just because the dude seems to have researched it so thoroughly is Jeff Varasano's pizza recipe which is here http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm However the most recent one I did was from the modernist cuisine where the flour/water ratio did seem really high (3.75 cups of flour to 1.33 cups of water), so it probably was just too dry I think, in addition to whateverr else might have been wrong with it
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Jul 1, 2013 18:42
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drat that looks great, what recipe are you using for your crust?
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Aug 5, 2013 08:12
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Thanks man, I'm gonna try that  That's cool that you got ahold of Varasano, I'll try and do some of that stuff also
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Aug 5, 2013 08:46
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agentseven posted:Great, I hope it works out for you! Looking back at what I wrote the only thing that's really changed is I use 1/4 tsp of yeast because you really just don't need any more. I also cold ferment for at least overnight and up to four days now (ie: 1 hour rise at room temp, punch down, roll, put in fridge). I use a gladware container with some holes poked in it and sprayed down with Pam to store the dough while it ferments. I've found that while the taste isn't particularly better the spring/structure is. Man that's a tiny amount of yeast. I use a lot more than that usually. I'll try cutting it down that much because I usually let it rise 24 hours in the fridge anyway.
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Aug 5, 2013 18:45
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Yeah I've read that page about 20 times haha, that's why I thought it was cool that agentseven got up with him I still can't make actual restaurant quality pizza in my house though  I mean bad restaurant maybe but I never quite get it to where I think it's really good. I did make one by pure hand kneading last time though and it was a lot better than previous attempts. I think part of it was I always wanted the kitchenaid I paid like $300 for to actually do its job and knead the drat thing but it never ends up being kneaded I'm trying agentseven's recipe today to make tomorrow or Wednesday, will see how it goes. Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 22:14
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By the way when Varasano said to add some oil to the dough, did he mean to add it to the actual dough itself before making the pizza, or to brush it on the rim after assembly? Or the whole top of the pizza?
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Aug 6, 2013 07:55
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I'll try but I mean my kitchenaid has literally never been able to knead any dough worth a poo poo at all for some reason
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Aug 6, 2013 16:53
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Pizza was crazy good in Florence when I was there too
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Nov 19, 2013 23:18
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I thought part of the point of a stone was that some of the steam wouldn't get trapped under the pizza up against it, making tbe bottom soggy or whatever? Doesn't the steel have that problem?
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Apr 18, 2014 20:03
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I made some pretty good pizza dough but I'm noticing my crusts seem to be like still kinda dry and kinda hard on the outside for my liking, even though I'm using 80% hydration dough. Is it just because my oven only goes to 550 and I'm having to cook it for like 12 minutes, so it's just drying out? Should I try to just brush some oil around the dough before I cook it? I've just been doing pretty normal tomato sauce + cheese just while I experiment with various crusts and whatnot. If I lowered the temp in the oven that would just make the problem worse, right? Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 03:35
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Mr. Wookums posted:80% seems high and 12 minutes at 550 seems long. I suspect you're getting something closer to a bread crust. I don't know if you live in the desert or something, but first drop the hydration and cook until the crust looks done (some black). I am cooking it until it looks done, 12 minutes is about how long it takes. It's possible that my oven sucks and isn't actually running at 550. Would dropping the hydration make it brown faster?
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Aug 25, 2014 20:36
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I'm cooking on a baking steel so I dunno why it's taking so long unless like you said my oven just sucks and isn't coming to temp I let it preheat for an hour at 550 and then cook it until it's well browned which takes 10+ minutes or so. I'll get an oven thermometer sometime and see if it's my oven's fault. Eventually I wanna replace it but it works okay so it would be a pretty wasteful buy to replace it while it's still working.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:38
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clockworx posted:My hacked countertop electric oven continues to be awesome. I pretty much always have a batch of either NY style or Neapolitan dough going. I made Neapolitan last night at 900 degrees and will probably do another for lunch today. What kinda oven are you doing that with and how did you hack it? Also, 900 degrees and on the counter? Is that safe, like, at all?
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Jun 21, 2015 06:36
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Oops, it looks like the real MisterOblivious was me!!!
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Jun 21, 2015 18:13
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Home pizza cooking, no broiler activation (mine shuts off automatically if the oven is at 550), what's the consensus: pizza at top of oven or bottom? I tend to not have any problems getting the bottom to cook because I have a steel but usually end up waiting awhile (10 mins or so cook time) for the pizza to actually brown on top and sometimes the cheese burns or whatever in the meantime. Obviously I'd like the whole thing to cook as fast as possible I think? I used to pull it out after 4-5 mins but my wife says that she got raw dough one time and that I need to cook it a lot longer so I dunno, I mean maybe ~the truth is somewhere in the middle~ but she likes me to cook them the full 9-10 mins til it's like literally brown on top of the crust and I feel like the interior crust is pretty dried out by then Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 00:32
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Man I kinda wanna bite the bullet on that for only $100 but I seriously have no idea where in my kitchen or pantry I would store that bad boy when not in use
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Jan 19, 2016 03:39
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I inspected my pantry and ordered it anyway, I can throw some poo poo out
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Jan 19, 2016 17:15
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I keep having a problem where I have to put so much flour on my pizzas to get them to not stick that it makes this sort of layer of flour on the bottom that doesn't cook and I feel like sort of prevents the bottom from browning. Does cornmeal work better? I've only tried flour and I dunno what I'm doing wrong but like I just have the hardest time actually working the pizza out into a real shape and having it get really thin without accidentally getting it stuck to the counter and making holes. I want to get it real thin like neapolitan style but like the thinner it gets the more it seems to stick to the peel or the counter or whatever.
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Feb 1, 2016 05:02
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I'm using fairly high hydration, anything from 60-80% depending on the recipe. I find on the lower hydration doughs they don't stretch as easily, and the higher hydration obviously sticks more. I'm using, I dunno, a couple sprinklings with my hand, I've never measured I just put more down when it looks like all the previous flour has absorbed and it's gonna start sticking again, I'm using a steel, and I'm turning my oven up as hot as possible but the main issue is really it sliding around on and off the peel, once it goes in the oven it's fine but anyway yeah I'm using a steel at 550 in the main oven although lately I got one of those Sur La Table things. Last time I had it on 1 to preheat for 15 minutes (although maybe I should have just gone an hour? I was just nervous about leaving a hot thing on my counter that long unattended for the first time) and cooked it on 3. Maybe next time I'll even preheat it on 2 because the bottom seemed nowhere near burning.
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Feb 1, 2016 07:06
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Yeah the actual paper that came with it recommended preheating to 1 but I think they're just being overly cautious, gonna try 2 next time
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Feb 1, 2016 18:30
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How did you get your pizza so nicely shaped with the outer crust so consistent and well sized? Mine tend to puff up and take up like a third of the drat slice
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Apr 5, 2016 03:20
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What the gently caress that's so perfect looking!!! !!!!!
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Apr 5, 2016 13:51
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blacquethoven posted:well i didnt make a video but heres a crappy pictorial on starting a dough. That looks like tons of flour, doesn't the bottom just get like covered in flour and then not crisp up or whatever? Maybe I'll take a video of me trying to do a dough sometime and upload it and maybe someone can tell me how I'm loving up I'm gonna try to do one today where I don't refrigerate it overnight, I know you're supposed to but I feel like letting it get that cold is a big part of why I can never get them to stretch properly or whatever My problem is like I feel like whenever I eat pizza from restaurants the like inside of the dough always seems a lot like lighter and sort of softer than mine, but if I increase the hydration in mine it's too sticky to stretch without sticking to my hands or the counter or whatever without tons of flour and that creates its own problems Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Apr 27, 2016 |
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Apr 27, 2016 20:15
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I actually did one today where I didn't refrigerate at all (just let it rise for 2 hours, punched down, 1 more hour rise then use) and it was great and a lot easier to stretch although it stretched a little TOO much in the middle and I basically gave up and used a rolling pin again, but it came out great! I think maybe I wasn't taking it out of the fridge early enough before. I usually take it out an hour or two before I want to use it but it's usually still cold for some reason, so maybe I need to take it out even earlier or something.
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Apr 28, 2016 02:15
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That's a good idea although I got one of those Sur La Table thingies so I don't really have to preheat much anymore, since it has heating elements on the top and bottom it gets pretty super hot in like 10 mins Really happy with gettin that based on this thread's rec, it made a pizza today in like 3 mins compared to the 8-10 from my 500 degree oven
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Apr 28, 2016 02:58
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That looks so good!!!!
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May 15, 2016 00:00
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Wow how the heck did you that at 550 in 3 minutes? I have a steel also and I do it at 550 but even in the sur la table oven poo poo that I bought my pizzas aren't done in 3 minutes Like even at 550 it would normally take me 9-10 minutes to get that kinda color and by then it gets all kinds of dried out
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Jun 27, 2016 20:02
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Hmm maybe having a convection oven makes more difference than I thought I guess, I have the standard non convection oven This is somewhat eye opening for me, I had no idea you could cook stuff that well and that fast in a home oven without it being like a ~FANCY PIZZA OVEN~ for 18,000 dollars or something. I assume you have the same steel I do, the $80 one that everyone was buying there for a bit.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:05
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Haha man I wish I had a yard that was convenient for one of those. My backyard is like down a flight of steps, my land slants down so I have a deck out the back door then the back yard is 15 feet below and is still on a slope so there's like no good place for me to put one even if I had one. I'm jealous!
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Dec 12, 2016 22:26
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What do mean by keep the broiler on with a spoon?
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Jan 6, 2017 22:58
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Oh, is that why it turns off? Well, if you have the stone heated to like 500 and the broiler on, is there any reason you can't just keep the door ajar like on its own? Between the heat of the stone and the heat of the broiler do you even still need the air itself to be that hot?
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Jan 6, 2017 23:17
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I'm always afraid if I put the pizza on the very top of the oven that it will bubble up and actually touch the broiler wire or that it'll be really hard to get in/take out There's not a lot of room at the top of my oven between the top rack and the broiler
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Jan 11, 2017 22:16
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Haha it's not the element I'm worried about!
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Jan 12, 2017 01:11
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Does anyone have advice on, like, making pizza less dense? Is it a matter of using not enough water? I just did one with 70% hydration and it was really soft and pliable but when I made it, it was pretty dense when I ate it and sort of gave me a mild stomachache. I'll post pics in a bit. I was using the broiler method which I had never used before and I think I took it out too early because I thought the cheese was burning and I mean I guess it was but I should have left it in longer to cook fully either way. It was a same-day dough so I made it at like 4, let it rise for a couple hours, then punched it down and formed it into pizzas at around 6 and then ate it. Maybe I should have punched it down then let it rise for another hour or something before using it?
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Jan 20, 2017 04:42
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Pics   
Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 04:46
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Yep I'm using a steel that I preheated in a 550 oven for 90 mins
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Jan 20, 2017 05:11
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To be honest I really liked the char from the broilier, I've done it straight bake a million times and that's why I switched, with a normal 550 bake it took like 8-10 minutes to be done and have enough browning and the pizza would dry out in that time
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Jan 20, 2017 06:40
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Okay I'll try 4 hours next time. I was doing them overnight in the fridge in the past but I was having a problem where like, even if I took them out of the fridge in the morning when I got up, by the time it was dinnertime it was still way cold and much harder to stretch into a pizza so I was trying to just do it same-day instead. It could be that I just didn't let it rise enough like you said though. And yeah I was transferring it to a non-super cold bowl in case anyone was gonna suggest switching bowls (I did make that mistake of not doing that for a long time though) Should I just like form it into a pizza shape then let it sit for a bit like that also so that there's sort of a final little rise that doesn't get messed with at all before it goes in? I think also probably too much air got knocked out of it because when I was making it into a pizza it kinda got messed up and I had to like roll it back into a ball and start over, so that maybe just got rid of too much of the air that had been created Underside definitely had blisters and was crispy and stuff Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 19:51
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Flash Gordon Ramsay posted:If the stone is really heated to 550, you won't have time to heat up the broiler. At 550 convection roast in my oven (which uses the top element), second rack from the top takes a pie 2-3 minutes to cook. I don't have convection bake, just the bottom element. Mine takes forever to cook at 550, even if I preheat it for like 2 hours.
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Jan 20, 2017 19:56
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