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Thanks for the thoughts.Ok Comboomer posted:Man…idk how many multi-usb dacs there are…maybe something in the pro audio space that you could then route into the amp/speaker of your choice? Maybe a few Apple DACs running into three analog ins, or two of those + one USB in? Yeah, there are a lot of different kludges at a lot of different kludginess levels. Re: a new display: Maybe, still TBD. Why do you ask? Note the other fun thing about this whole setup is figuring out how to route the display and input switching. (PC needs to connect to one high-refresh gaming display, Macbook 2 needs to connect to a high-resolution professional-design-work display. Macbook 1 would ideally connect to both displays but that might be too much of a pain to figure out. PC and Macbook 1 are used by me Keyboard 1 and a trackball, and of course Macbook 2 will be used by my girlfriend who prefers different Keyboard 2 and an ergo mouse. It's gonna be fun figuring out the wiring.) qirex posted:As you've already figured out there's a lot of ways to go. IMO USB switching is a non-starter but there are cheap adapters to do USB to optical or coax if you want to keep the other computer outputs digital too. I personally would probably do a desktop DAC to powered speakers but there's plenty of good mini-amps now too. For streaming you can either buy very expensive speakers with that built in or a $100 Wiim Mini that works great. Just curious, why's USB switching a non-starter? That's my feeling too but I can't put my finger on why. Driver annoyances? Also, I hear you on the powered speakers, but any recs for good desktop DACs and/or mini-amps? Alarbus posted:Hilariously, I just bought the Audioengine HD4 https://audioengine.com/shop/wirelessspeakers/hd4-home-music-system/ , and they're great. I think they'd match most/all of your requirements... Yeah, these are on my short list. I suppose I'd end up hooking the Macbooks up via analog and just physically switching the plug on the other end between them. I might be tempted to do it if these had built-in Airplay... I think there are some other powered speakers that are basically the same, but with that built-in. Gotta take another look around.
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Oct 11, 2023 16:16
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Scythe posted:Thanks for the thoughts. Dell is making new Ultrasharps with built in KVM hardware for multi-computer setups MacBooks should have Airplay if they’re from the last ~13 years. You could add something like a Wiim Mini or Pro/Pro Plus and get Airplay to whatever amp or powered speakers you want. Even if you run one of the MacBooks that way it should help a lot. Running both thru it, and then the Wiim either thru TOSlink or RCA/3.5mm, means you can send the PC audio through a usb DAC input You could get something like a schiit modi, etc and connect the pc to the USB, a Wiim to the TOSlink, and the MacBooks Airplay to the Wiim Then the DAC could be plugged into What-have-you Alternatively, a few Audioengines, etc have a USB in or Optical in IIRC plus analog inputs, and a few also Bluetooth/AptX, etc. You could do Wiim—>analog in, PC—>USB trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Oct 11, 2023 |
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Oct 11, 2023 16:24
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Actually, it looks like the HD4 has two analog inputs, mini jack and RCA. Could you leave a Mac hooked up to one of those and set the computer to be an airplay receiver? There are some boxes like the Wiim that would do that as standalone it seems
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Oct 11, 2023 16:48
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https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/T5V--adam-audio-t5v-5-inch-powered-studio-monitor Adam T5V at a killer $150 each (better than JBL 305P IMO firsthand)
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Oct 13, 2023 11:06
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Ok Comboomer posted:Yep, and you can use whichever connection you want. Is your optical out stereo or 5.1? Do you know how to change the settings if it can do both? USB should be fairly plug-and-play as far as outputting a stereo signal
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Nov 2, 2023 07:19
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Ham Equity posted:Thank you for the help, wound up getting the Modius, totally solved the issue and as a bonus the speakers sound much better now aside from the lack of static. Glad to hear it Now you need one of the matching headamps/speaker preamps so that you can control the volume physically and also get a nice headphone out 
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Nov 2, 2023 10:27
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The Logitech Z207 has 2x2 speakers, half of them "passive" and not connected to anything. Are those a) a scam b) useful (please explain!) or c) debatable (can't give clear yes/no answer)? I have stumbled on several occasions on systems where speaker where not connected to anything and I am dying to know. Thank you.
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Nov 3, 2023 17:46
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:The Logitech Z207 has 2x2 speakers, half of them "passive" and not connected to anything. Are those a) a scam b) useful (please explain!) or c) debatable (can't give clear yes/no answer)? I have stumbled on several occasions on systems where speaker where not connected to anything and I am dying to know. Thank you. passive radiator?
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Nov 3, 2023 17:57
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Yes.Wikipedia posted:The passive-radiator principle was identified as being particularly useful in compact systems where vent realization is difficult or impossible, but it can also be applied satisfactorily to larger systems.
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Nov 3, 2023 18:09
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I needed to upgrade my monitor which was a small ASUS tv I got for like twenty bucks at a best buy in 2014 or so, and as a result had no need for speakers, then after ten years of service it died so I picked up a new monitor, which had inbuilt speakers and they sound bad. I don't know how to describe it beyond both really really muddy and really really far away. I don't have a lot of space on my desk so I bought https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H4T2YPZ because it was cheap and it's exactly the size I need because my desk is small. Knowing nothing about audio, I just assumed this would be fine because I'm not very picky about sound. Turns out it was much better, but still really really muddy. Does anyone have a suggestion for those of us who would like clearish audio, but have pretty limited desk real estate to be putting a full audio stack on there, preferably under 150$. Eyeballing it, I probably have something like LWH 4x25x3 inches of room to work with.( I have a tiny ikea desk, because I'm lazy)
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Nov 6, 2023 23:37
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Creative Pebble 3 are tiny, and sound pretty clear despite their size. They have very little bass, but sound sharp turned up loud. I have them on my work desk (also small like yours) and enjoy them for background music/vids while working. My work music tastes lean toward jazz, classical, and folk/bluegrass - I wouldn’t recommend them if you’re a bass head or need metal (for this I use headphones), but otherwise they’re decent enough considering the size.
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Nov 7, 2023 03:23
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Oh and another option, Defenestrategy, for small size, are the Bose Companion 2 Series III speakers. They have way more bass, which is really Bose’s calling card. They’re great if you’re gaming or listen to lots of beats, but make classical music sound like garbage so you get some you lose some.
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Nov 7, 2023 16:31
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Dicty Bojangles posted:Creative Pebble 3 are tiny, and sound pretty clear despite their size. They have very little bass, but sound sharp turned up loud. I have them on my work desk (also small like yours) and enjoy them for background music/vids while working. My work music tastes lean toward jazz, classical, and folk/bluegrass - I wouldn’t recommend them if you’re a bass head or need metal (for this I use headphones), but otherwise they’re decent enough considering the size. Ordered this and it ended up being excellent. Very clear where it needs to be. Thanks!
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Nov 9, 2023 01:46
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Cheers, glad they work!
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Nov 9, 2023 02:40
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Back in 2016, I bought these Logitech Z323 speakers w/subwoofer for $48. I'm ready to upgrade, but I don't know the first thing about audio and I have very limited desk space so this research process has been difficult. However, I think I'm about at the finish line. Based on my research, I'm planning to get the Audioengine HD3 speakers. My question is: which connection should I use for the best sound quality? It looks like it comes with all sorts of connection options, but I'm not sure which is the best one available to me. I have a Gigabyte - X570 Aorus Pro Wifi motherboard, which apparently has support for S/PDIF Out and a Realtek® ALC1220-VB codec ("the back panel line out jack supports DSD audio"). Dunno what any of that means, to be honest! I've also heard mention about using the speaker's DAC instead of the computer's onboard DAC, but again, I'm not really sure what that means, if that's a good idea, or how to do it. If it matters, I would break down my speaker usage as 40% listening to Twitch streamers and YouTube videos, 40% listening to music, 10% watching movies/television, and 10% on work voice calls. I'd appreciate any available expertise on this, thank you! surf rock fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 06:08
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You should probably try using the USB input first. That will use the speaker's DAC ("digital-analog converter," the thing that turns digital audio data into an analog sound wave) rather than the computer's DAC. You'll need to select that USB audio device on your PC after plugging the speakers in. That's it. If that sounds like rear end for some reason, you can use either the RCA inputs or the 1/8" mini jack input. Those will probably be identical in terms of audio quality (they should be, assuming the speakers are properly made), so you should just use whichever one requires fewer adapters to get it out of your computer, or flip a coin if they're the same. Using either of those means you will be using the computer's DAC (which is that Realtek thing you mentioned). You typically want to use the speaker's DAC or another external DAC if possible, first because they're probably higher-quality components (since you're buying nice speakers on purpose and motherboard audio is often an afterthought) and second because digital audio is transmitted perfectly (it's digital after all) and analog can get noise interference etc (though this is often overblown), so the more digital transmission and the less analog transmission you have, the better (to oversimplify things a bit). (Side note: S/PDIF out could be cool, but your speakers would need a "coaxial" or "optical" input to use it and they don't have that. Those are ways to transmit digital audio data to/from something that doesn't have USB, but since you're talking about a computer here, you can just use USB instead.)
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Nov 16, 2023 17:30
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That's extremely helpful, thank you!
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Nov 16, 2023 17:36
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I bought the HD4 recently, and have a gigabyte Z490 board, and personally think the on board audio is rear end. I used the USB connection to use the speaker DAC and think it sounds great. You can use two inputs like analog and USB, but the USB and Bluetooth inputs are shared and it'll only do one of the two, if you're juggling multiple computers.
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Nov 21, 2023 22:10
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Dicty Bojangles posted:Oh and another option, Defenestrategy, for small size, are the Bose Companion 2 Series III speakers. They have way more bass, which is really Bose’s calling card. They’re great if you’re gaming or listen to lots of beats, but make classical music sound like garbage so you get some you lose some. Just did a new build today and got thinking maybe I should get some new speakers, but since my current ones are these (bought in 2015)... I guess I'll just stick with 'em!
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Nov 26, 2023 01:44
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I've personally enjoyed the Creative Gigaworks II T40s I got last year, but if the Boses work for you, keep 'em. Hell, I've been using a set of Bose headphones for more than a decade now and they still sound good (and, importantly, have replaceable earcaps).
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Nov 26, 2023 11:18
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I bought a set of refurbished Audioengine A2+ speakers on this thread's recommendation back in 2015 and they still whip rear end even without a sub attached to them. I've exclusively used the integrated DAC on them the entire time and never had a problem. I don't imagine speaker tech has improved greatly over the last 8 years, so since these are still going strong I assume I shouldn't be looking at anything to replace them with, right? Home audio is something of a blind spot for me, and I don't know how tech in this space improves year over year. I have no interest in getting another set of speakers just for some poo poo like bluetooth that I'll never use.
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Nov 26, 2023 14:25
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Not really much different I don’t think; if you’re itching for an upgrade add a sub.
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Nov 26, 2023 17:17
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I'm not, just checking to make sure there hasn't been some game changing breakthrough that I've been missing out on.
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Nov 26, 2023 17:21
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I got an Edifier R980T set a while ago and they seem, uh, dangerously defective. The main speaker has a non-grounded plug, the second speaker is connected via speaker wire, and the back has aux/PC RCA ports. First off, plugging the speaker into a power bar while it was turned on at low volume produced visible sparks. Secondly, plugging in the provided RCA-to-3.5mm cable and even just touching the end of the 3.5mm plug with my finger or grazing it against anything metal makes a loud buzzing sound. Actually plugging it in to a PC makes an even louder sound (scaling with the volume knob setting) until it's fully inserted, at which point the buzzing stops. I gather that a ground loop can make low static/buzzing sounds while plugged in but this seems like it must be a short somewhere in the main speaker?
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Nov 30, 2023 06:53
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That’s about what I experience with most powered speakers? You have to turn them off when plugging cables or at least put the volume all the way down. Maybe the input is extra sensitive or something so it’s more prominent but I’d be more surprised if it didn’t buzz when you did those things.
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Nov 30, 2023 07:00
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Precambrian Video Games posted:I got an Edifier R980T set a while ago and they seem, uh, dangerously defective. The main speaker has a non-grounded plug, the second speaker is connected via speaker wire, and the back has aux/PC RCA ports. First off, plugging the speaker into a power bar while it was turned on at low volume produced visible sparks. Secondly, plugging in the provided RCA-to-3.5mm cable and even just touching the end of the 3.5mm plug with my finger or grazing it against anything metal makes a loud buzzing sound. Actually plugging it in to a PC makes an even louder sound (scaling with the volume knob setting) until it's fully inserted, at which point the buzzing stops. I gather that a ground loop can make low static/buzzing sounds while plugged in but this seems like it must be a short somewhere in the main speaker? All of this sounds pretty normal. All plugs can spark when you plug them in unless the power is cut via a switch (and turning on a switch causes sparks too, you just can't see them). Self powered speakers / amplifiers have a lot of capacitors, so inrush current can be high. Any amplifier will also make those kinds of noises if you partially insert a cable or touch the end of an unplugged cable. An unplugged audio cable has a "floating" potential and even the impedance of your skin will cause that to fluctuate, which is exaggerated by the amplifier. 3.5mm line inputs typically run at only 1v peak, so it doesn't take a lot to make a pretty loud noise. You should turn an amplifier/powered speaker off any time you connect or disconnect a cable to prevent damage.
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Nov 30, 2023 07:07
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Ok, thanks. Plugging in while unpowered is easy enough. I did have problems with static/interference while plugged in before (I.e. just jostling the audio cable slightly produced loud noise) but I moved the speaker wires above my desk and keep the 3.5mm end as far away from power cables as possible and it's mostly resolved.
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Nov 30, 2023 07:35
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That's a thing with RCA cables, yeah. More expensive speakers often offer balanced connections and/or digital inputs for this reason (balanced just means that they run two signal wires at opposite polarity so noise affects both in a way that cancels itself out). You can try using a thicker RCA cable with better shielding. It's one of the few areas where cable quality matters (up to a point - don't buy a $100 RCA cable, obviously). I like using chunky old component video cables for this because they were typically better constructed and are now very cheap secondhand. Ask me about replacing a bunch of in-wall RCA with XLR to get rid of interference on some very, very large subwoofers. The speaker wire is much less succeptable to this simply because it's after the amplifier (although it can still happen - said very large subwoofers were too close to the speaker wire for my fronts and would actually cause distortion at high volume, which was SO hard to figure out). KillHour fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Nov 30, 2023 |
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Nov 30, 2023 11:15
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Always turn things off before plugging them in
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Nov 30, 2023 19:58
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I have started collecting old stereo systems (old being anywhere from 30 to 10 years old) from the tip shop, the store next to the municipal dump ("tip" in Aussie) that salvages probably-saleable stuff from the landfill. For a shrug and a wave and back-of-couch cash cost, I get a minisystem from a major audio brand - Sony, Panasonic, Kenwood, etc. - that has a line-in capability. I've been running a Sony unit for my home desktop speakers, a Kenwood pushing sound out to two big passive speakers for the TV, and just today I brought in the Cobolt surround-sound amp to work and put it under my work monitor, pushing sound out to the 120W speakers that came with the Kenwood. And there's another Panasonic unit that has an actually working CD player (this feature is broken on the other systems, CD players seem to be rather fragile) in the kitchen I can plug my phone into when I'm working there. All of these are based on the basic 3.5mm headphone cable, with sound from the computer or TV going into either a similar 3.5mm line-in (the Sony at my home desktop, the Panasonic in the kitchen) or split into the red/white stereo input (back of the Cobolt at work and the Kenwood for the TV). I am not an audiophile, so I'm not interested in running down the long tail of diminishing returns by spending hundreds of dollars. For the price - about $20 for a system, and another $5 in cables - I'm very happy with the results. If you have a 20-year-old home stereo collecting dust I would suggest you at least try hooking it up to a computer just to see (hear) what happens. I have a question, though - all else being equal, is a bigger speaker (both physically and the rated output wattage) more clear at low volume than a small speaker? As an extreme example, if speech (e.g. people sitting around talking in a podcast) is being played on my phone, I have to crank the volume to max to understand every word, and any background noise makes this very difficult. But if I plug my phone into one of these systems (40W, 70W, or 120W max output) I can set the volume to near-minimum and still understand at least 99% of what is said. Am I wrong to think that it's the bigger, higher-power amp & speakers that's making the speech more clear, or is it more to do with the design constraints of a tiny phone speaker vs. something intended to fill a living room with pop music?
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Dec 11, 2023 01:06
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ExecuDork posted:Am I wrong to think that it's the bigger, higher-power amp & speakers that's making the speech more clear, or is it more to do with the design constraints of a tiny phone speaker vs. something intended to fill a living room with pop music? Its more about the quality of the speaker. The size of the speaker doesn't matter (much). Most speakers will only draw 1 watt maybe 6 watts at peak at normal listening volumes.
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Dec 11, 2023 05:06
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I would partly disagree with that and say that all else being equal, speaker size does matter. A larger speaker is generally more efficient, especially at lower frequencies. The part I agree with is that large amps aren't necessary for clear sound. In fact, larger speakers usually need less power. You can power massive 6' tall horn loaded speakers on like a tenth of a watt. There's a lot more that goes into it, of course, but if phone-sized speakers were just as capable as larger ones, built-in TV speakers would sound like an IMAX theater.
KillHour fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Dec 11, 2023 |
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Dec 11, 2023 05:34
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Totally agree, I didn't mean that cell phone and hi-fi speaker size doesn't matter. What I meant by that is, once you get to the size of a typical hi-fi system, once you have a shoe-box size speaker box, going bigger doesn't matter. Once you have a speaker with a dedicated tweeter and a mid/woofer >4", the quality of those components become more important than going from a bookshelf to a tower sized speaker, for example, when listening to voices on a podcast.
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Dec 11, 2023 17:45
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Yeah I'd say for desktop a 4" driver is sufficient for the upper bass range where most tiny drivers like in soundbars struggle, like for most male voices or bass guitar. a 5 or 6 is almost always better, though. If you pump enough power into them you can get bass too, the Micca RB42 are famously good sounding small speakers but they're super inefficient. The "wattage range" on most speakers is just marketing talk, like sure you can blow them up but not under normal usage scenarios. Once you start to try to do loud volume is when a lot of those old mini system speakers, even decently big ones, hit the wall because you start getting effects like cabinet resonance [especially on plastic ones], clipping when the drivers hit the limits of their range of motion or port chuffing. Basically it's pretty easy to make something that sounds good at low volume and exponentially more difficult the louder the level and larger the volume you're trying to fill. This is why even a small club system looks almost nothing like home speakers.
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Dec 12, 2023 00:30
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I've been super impressed with the amps and speakers from late-90's / early-2000's minisystems. My very basic testing procedure once I get one of these systems home and plugged in is to cue up something straightforward on my phone, usually music that I know has a reasonable range of frequencies from kick-drums and bass guitars to falsetto voices and guitar solos, plug the phone into the system, and then mess around with the volume and any mixing options there might be. Cranking it up as loud as I can stand (or as loud as I am willing to annoy my wife in the next room with) for a few seconds is a key part of this playing around. I'm used to very cheap computer speakers or just the built-in speakers on my laptop computer, or running my phone out through a very cheap bluetooth speaker, so my standards are low and it's easy to impress me. All of the systems are able to produce sound that to me is still free of distortion or other bad effects (weird harmonics with its own components, cutting out or stuttering, hissing or crackling sounds, etc.) at volumes loud enough I don't want to listen to it longer than I need to. And the sound remains clear at medium volumes as I walk around in my house; I can still understand speech through a closed door or two if the volume is reasonable. This is in sharp contrast to those much smaller and weaker systems that a phone or laptop comes equipped with - I can't fill a room with sound from the 8W soundbar I had previously been using at work (and it crackled and popped if my wireless mouse got too close), but the 3-component Sony minisystem taking in headphone signals from my home desktop computer can easily push music throughout the whole house - and that's the weakest system I've got, rated at "only" 40W per speaker. From points raised in this thread already, that number is probably meaningless - the speakers may be drawing only one or less watts during normal use. The speakers on my desk at work have three pots each (I am not good at terminology). The top one is about 2 inches, the middle and bottom are about 4.5 inch and about 5.25 inch (measuring through the grid with a ruler in cm). The little soundbar had a pair of maybe 2" speakers, and obviously my phone has a much smaller speaker. The Kenwood unit running sound for the TV at home pushes out to a pair of bigger, maybe 3-feet-tall wooden boxes (I haven't taken the fabric off to really investigate the speakers) and can produce lovely clear speech. I have no delusions that my rescued-from-garbage systems are at all comparable to a public-address or club system. There's a bit in a book by a musician - can't remember who right now, possibly in David Byrne's (Talking Heads) How Music Works - about the band showing up at some tiny, obscure venue and a local fan, a teenager, offering to run their instruments through his home stereo. I'm not going to do that. Does anyone else here use an old stereo for their computer speakers? I'm easy to impress but I am quite impressed by what I get for so little money, repurposing old equipment that's otherwise destined for the landfill.
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Dec 12, 2023 06:21
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I used a pair of cheap Akai 3-way speakers and a 2x25W JVC receiver from the late 1970s for a long time 
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Dec 12, 2023 08:34
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I resolved most of my cable/static interference problems except for some unfortunate and nasty static when my GPU is under load (independent of the speaker volume setting, unlike before). I think I'll just use headphones for gaming...
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Dec 16, 2023 00:08
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Precambrian Video Games posted:I resolved most of my cable/static interference problems except for some unfortunate and nasty static when my GPU is under load (independent of the speaker volume setting, unlike before). I think I'll just use headphones for gaming... have you tried putting a USB DAC between the computer and the Edifiers? You can do it as cheaply as a $9 Apple dongle (you might need a $5 type A to C adapter if you don’t have a free Type C port) or you can spend a bit more and get one of the $20-30 Behringer ones with a Type A cable and RCA outs.
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Dec 16, 2023 00:35
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I have an XtremPro USB DAC that I use with (unpowered) headphones but I could not get any output through it with the speakers.
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Dec 16, 2023 00:43
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Precambrian Video Games posted:I have an XtremPro USB DAC that I use with (unpowered) headphones but I could not get any output through it with the speakers. the two I mentioned are p much plug+play, you might need to tweak a setting in the Windows audio control panel
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Dec 16, 2023 01:21
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