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GokieKS posted:passive preamp That would be a volume control or an attenuator, since there's no such thing as passive preamping ;-) There are plenty of inexpensive volume controls on the market, they're widely used in the pro audio world for active monitors. Fostex PC-1 is a nice one that's also cheap.
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Sep 3, 2014 23:16
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Definitely not a problem with my Audioengines and Adams. On the other hand, I've heard plenty of hiss from amps and passive speakers. Make sure it's not your source introducing noise, try playing from other devices while your PC isn't connected. E: OK, you've already tried that. Pretty sure you're just unlucky and they're just that noisy. Odd that it's the same at all volume levels. What are you setting the bass/treble knobs to? KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Jan 21, 2015 |
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Jan 21, 2015 12:27
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:I figured there would be DACs which would let you select between Headphones and Line Out, but I can't find any with a button/knob like that. Do most of them just mute line out when you plug in headphones? Either that or (as with the O2+ODAC) keeps outputting to both. The 02+ODAC does this because it's literally two separate pieces of hardware in one box. You can run just the amp off the wall wart or just the DAC off USB, separately. I agree that the Schiit setup is probably the best fit for your use case. Personally, I steer clear of any Schiit products after the shitstorm that erupted at Head-Fi after NwAvGuy cast serious doubts about the safety of one of their amps, which would output a pulse of over 2V DC to the headphone jack when switched off. One of their previous amps has had several documented cases of actually killing headphones this way. Schiit basically denied the whole thing, then tried to pass it off as completely normal, until finally they relented and fixed the drat thing, while claiming that they had originally left out the safe power off relay because "it would impact the sound". And of course, NwAvGuy was permabanned from Head-Fi for daring to speak out against one of their sponsors. So yeah. bullschiit. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Feb 3, 2015 |
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Feb 3, 2015 20:47
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NwAvGuy's recap is here: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/07/banned-at-head-fi.html
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Feb 3, 2015 21:01
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powderific posted:Pretty interesting reading. Schiitt eventually took care of it but certainly didn't handle it that well at first. I've always found Head-Fi's ban on mentioning testing both silly and telling. Well, it is a "double blind test-free zone".
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Feb 3, 2015 22:16
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Palladium posted:How space constrained are you talking about? Like not having enough space for a pair of Micca MB42x? I personally find Audioengine stuff to be horribly overrated and overpriced especially when considering their spotty reliability. Spotty reliability? Apart from overheating issues with the first generation A5, this is the first I've heard of bad reliability on any of their products  I've had a set of A2s (that I sold) and I'm still using a set of A5+s that I bought a year ago as a secondary setup in my bedroom. No problems so far, and they sound great.
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Feb 8, 2015 17:19
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Taima posted:What is the best DAC for the JBL 305s? By best I mean "best performance for the price". Thanks y'all Which features do you need? S/PDIF, Toslink, USB? Volume control? Headphone output? For S/PDIF and Toslink, it's hard to beat the Fiio D3. For USB, it's hard to beat the Behringer UCA202 for sheer value for money. Or if world-beating specs at a slightly higher price is what you want, go with the ODAC. E: Or do you even need a DAC? Is the analog output from your mainboard particularly noisy? KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Mar 2, 2015 |
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Mar 2, 2015 06:57
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Try the integrated sound first. Listen to some music at the loudest level you think you're going to play at. Then stop the music and listen if you can hear any noise. It's normal to hear a little bit of hiss with your ear right up to the speaker, but there should none at your listening position. If there is no noise to be heard, you don't need an external DAC.
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Mar 2, 2015 09:05
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Taima posted:Wow ok, so the only benefit is to avoid interference? There is no increase in sound quality from a DAC besides that? The dirty little secret about DACs is that the chips are laughably cheap, and even basic onboard sound manages near-perfect linearity and low enough distortion that it is completely inaudible. DAC chips are a low cost commodity, thanks to the massive advances of the semiconductor industry. The biggest possible drawback of integrated sound is that the analog bits are inside a rather noisy environment, and may pick up noise in some cases. My motherboard is rather noisy on the analog outputs, which is why I use a Toslink DAC. Anything beyond a Fiio D3 or ODAC is basically pointless, expensive are DACs generally bullshit, and they usually measure worse than the ODAC. The only feature that's really missing from those two is a volume control, but controls like the Fostex PC-1 are cheap and work perfectly well. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 06:52
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Were you using headphones or speakers? A lot of soundcards (both integrated and add-on), as well as many amps and other devices have relatively high output impedance. Optimally, you should have at least a 1:8 relationship between output and headphones, so for a set of 32 ohm headphones, the output impedance should be lower than 4 ohms. Amps and receivers without dedicated headphone amp circuits can have output impedance as high as 200 ohms in some cases, unlike well-designed headphones amps such as the O2, which has near-zero output impedance. Even good hifi gear can have headphone output impedance around 10-20 ohms, which makes them less than ideal for common 32 ohm headphones. Having an output impedance that is too high can cause nonlinear frequency response, among other things. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 12:44
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Flipperwaldt posted:I really haven't got the in depth knowledge to argue the technical cause of the difference and it's fair enough if you aren't convinced. I just think that, probably, even with laughably cheap DAC chips, there are still corners that could be cut in the implementation. I'm not trying to undermine your experience, I just wanted to dig further into it  You're 100% right that the implementation matters a lot when it comes to using DAC chips. When NwAvGuy followed the ESS datasheet and reference design as strictly as he possibly could, the resulting performance was good, but not nearly as good as what the chip was capable of. He had to do a lot of changes and tweaks to the design to reach measurement results that came close to maximum specs for the chip. That said, even with a very basic cut-corner design, it should definitely be possible to reach a combined noise+THD of less than -70dB, which should be inaudible in most cases. Most DACs you will find for sale quote the spec sheet for the DAC chip itself, not for their finished product. Some of them don't even publish specs, including some companies that sell $10k+ DACs. Hardly any of them utilize the full potential of the chips they use.
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Mar 3, 2015 14:58
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You can do an RMAA test to see if there's a measurable difference. If it sounds muffled, there's probably some high frequency rolloff.
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Mar 3, 2015 16:33
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Flipperwaldt posted:Well, it's there. Sort of. Well, it's mandatory to level match serious ABX tests to less than 0.5dB difference. The reasoning is that we may not be able to hear it outright, but subconsciously we will prefer the ever so slightly louder option, even at minute level differences. What's shown by that graph may be picked up in an direct comparison, for instance during an ABX test, but you wouldn't quite be able to put your finger on it. Maybe you wouldn't be able to get it every time, but I think certainly enough to make it statistically significant. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 19:02
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For that cheap, I don't think you can go wrong with the Logitech set. It'll be decent enough, just don't expect anything mindblowing, quality-wise As an alternative, you can look through thrift shops etc. for a cheap stereo amplifier and a set of bookshelf speakers. It might be a bit of a stretch to get it below $50, but sometimes luck favors the adventurous. It doesn't matter if the amp is from like the 70s and has wood siding etc., as long as it works. Similarly, as long as the foam/paper surrounds on the speaker drivers are intact and none of the drivers are dead, they'll work great. Amp and speaker technology hasn't changed much for the last couple of decades. E: vvvv I though of that too, right after submitting my post. It definitely can't hurt to look at used gear. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 22:29
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Taima posted:I was just curious if anyone had a similar situation crop up and what your thoughts were about it/ if following the yellow brick audio road really made you a happier listener of music/ etc. Absolutely. I am noticing clipressed and badly mastered music a lot more on my Adam A5Xs than I ever did on any of my previous speakers. They also make flaws in vinyl more apparent. On the other hand, good stuff sounds really good. And I can absolutely hear a difference on second hand LPs after cleaning them. Dust and fingerprints really add up.
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Apr 18, 2015 10:08
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Hob_Gadling posted:Think of it as an opportunity. Have you ever heard how nice a cello can really sound? There's a whole level of texture to string and brass instruments that's just so lovely to hear on a good recording.
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Apr 18, 2015 10:38
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KillHour posted:This is true. Never be afraid of Craigslist finds - audio equipment is good for a LONG time. For instance, I have a late-80s/early-90s 70WPC Denon PMA-520 stereo amp for sale at the moment, it's in Denmark though. I paid ~$12 for it in absolutely mint condition appearance-wise, because it supposedly had some noise on one of the inputs. All it really needed was a spritz of contact cleaner and it's working beautifully now. I'm hoping to get ~$50-75 for it. Sub-$100 amplifiers/receivers in perfect working condition can be had all day long, if you're not hung up on a specific brand or vintage.
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Jul 1, 2015 08:24
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It would be a good choice, as long as it works.
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Jul 1, 2015 14:52
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Josh Lyman posted:Is there any reason to not go with a 5.1 receiver if it's cheap? Not at all, as long as you're not bothered by the fact that you won't use most of its features. Just switch off all effects and fake surround DSP processing and that sort of thing, and it'll work fine as a stereo amp. Audiophiles like to claim that 2-channel sound quality is compromised by the additional circuitry, but no one has been able to show any detrimental effects. Some surround receivers are designed to be configured through a GUI on a connected TV, if that's the case it'll be a little annoying for the initial setup. Most receivers can be configured directly on the unit itself, but it may be a little fiddly. $160 is a little expensive though. You can definitely find something decent below $100.
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Jul 1, 2015 15:36
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KillHour posted:The specs I'm seeing for that receiver say 12 watts per channel. It's not going to be very loud. That's definitely not true. It was a $1100 receiver when it was new, and Pioneer says it's 100WPC in stereo or 90WPC in surround mode.
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Jul 1, 2015 16:12
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Not a lot of bass if you're used to a sub, though. Other than that (and you can as a sub later), they're really great.
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Jul 4, 2015 08:34
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I would go for the 308s if you have the room for them. More bass extension = better.
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Aug 11, 2015 16:39
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whatupdet posted:I'm confident I can fit any bookshelf speaker on my computer desk as it fit my Atoms with room to spare but the 308s are going to run me almost $900 so that's a definite no. $900? A set would run me ~$520 here, $900 is Adam A5X territory (they're so worth it, though). I assume you live in the US, where presumably JBL products would be cheaper than here in Europe? KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Aug 11, 2015 |
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Aug 11, 2015 19:11
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Dang, that sucks. I'm fairly sure you can find them significantly cheaper than that, especially on sale at a specialist music shop. I grabbed the regular non-sale prices from Thomann.de, by far the biggest musician/studio gear shop in Europe, sometimes they can be found for even less.
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Aug 11, 2015 19:16
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Adams are so ugly they're almost not worth it. Monitor speakers as a whole are pretty drat ugly. Even Genelecs, which are probably the lest offensive-looking monitors around. I like how the Adams look, that kinda industrial style they've got. And I mostly listen to my speakers rather than look at them
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Aug 12, 2015 19:44
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Tortilla Maker posted:To confirm, studio monitors are ideal for listening to music but not so much for other media (tv, gaming, etc.)? I get that the "flat" response is ideal for music engineers mixing music (or whatever they do), but are they "ideal" for the typical home listener? If they sound good, they sound good period. I use my Adams for music, movies, games and everything else. IMHO, flat response and correctness towards the recorded music (not just in frequency response, but also phase etc.) is the ideal which all speakers should aspire to. The reason being that it's much easier to introduce pleasant coloration to neutral speakers via EQ, than it is to remove coloration from speakers with a significant built-in sound signature. quote:Any advice as to which way to go (Bose vs. CR-3s) would be appreciated. As a rule of thumb, avoid Bose at all costs.
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Aug 13, 2015 13:46
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I would go for the Mackie CR4s. They seem to get rave reviews everywhere.
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Aug 13, 2015 18:23
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Electric Bugaloo posted:First of all: the LSRs are monitors. The only way to play music through them is via an audio connector/interface/mixer like the FocusRite that KillHour linked to. On the back of each individually-powered speaker, you will notice only an XLR input and 6mm jack. Given that you're cross-shopping them with Audioengines, I recommend that you eliminate them unless you have an actual interest in mixing music, because that's what they're for. What? No, the JBLs will be perfectly suitable for listening to music, and you absolutely don't need an expensive interface like the Focusrite. All you need is a mini-jack cable, an inexpensive volume control like a Fostex PC-1 and two RCA to male XLR cables. You don't even need the volume control if you just get the mini-jack to XLR cable that was linked earlier, but you'll have to control the volume in Windows, which may not be ideal. There's no need for an external DAC unless the on-board sound in your PC is really noisy or something. I like Audioengine's products, but I don't think anything out there can beat the JBLs on a price:performance ratio. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 06:11
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powderific posted:I have both and the jbl's are far superior if you have the space. On mine, I use a passive volume attenuator and I really think you should at least have that instead of trying to do software volume control for everything. It's just a lot nicer having an actually knob. I agree 100%, and luckily the Fostex PC-1 is hella inexpensive, especially considering how drat good the knob feel is. E: Or you can get this, which is apparently the greatest volume knob ever made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RApm5cUMj3E KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 09:30
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RIP Paul Walker posted:Computers are noisy beasts inside, I'd not be shocked if the cheapest USB sound card is worlds above the best onboard motherboard sound money can buy. Nope. I have an Edirol UA-1X right here that is ridiculously noisy, even noisier than onboard audio. But only on my PC, my dad is using one that is completely identical, and it gives perfect sound from his PC. I used a FiiO D3 for a while, because optical was 100% noise free. I later moved to an ODAC+O2, to get a good headphone amp, and that is 100% completely dead silent even though headphones at full volume with maximum gain applied. For most computers, everything should act about the same, but there are definitely fringe cases. And onboard audio is actually really drat good these days.
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Sep 8, 2015 20:54
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Now I'm just a little bit curious How would you describe the difference?
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Sep 8, 2015 21:23
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Djarum posted:Lower noise floor of course as it is going through USB instead of being on the board quote:overall clarity and overall better quality sound reproduction. Those are nebulous terms with no real foundation. How is the clarity better? Is there more treble? How is the overall sound quality better reproduced? Can you be certain it's not the external audio interface that's jazzing it up a little by added a mild smiley face EQ curve? quote:Even with the Hero supposedly having a headphone amp onboard it can not drive any of my headphones as well as the Scarlett can. This can be an issue. A lot of bluster is thrown about claiming "dedicated headphone amps" and whatnot on sound cards and onboard audio, but hardly anyone posts the specs. How much power can it deliver? What is the output impedance? Basically if the output impedance is more than ~4Ω, it's poo poo and worthless for 32Ω headphones, which are by far the most common. As a rule of thumb, output impedance should be less than 1/8th of the headphones' impedance. It's very likely that this is the major difference in sound quality you're experiencing. If the output impedance is too high for the headphones you're using, the sound will go to poo poo. Boomy exaggerated bass, shrill treble, all kinds of fun things can happen. quote:I have been considering getting a cheap tube based headphone amp to try ala Bravo Audio or a Little Dot just to see how that sounds. Don't bother. Tubes are great for making music, but poo poo for playing it back. quote:With the crappy Logitech speakers it was even a obvious improvement from onboard audio. Less hiss means you can have them both lower and higher volume without missing clarity. So the main issues are hiss and high output impedance. Hiss means you've got uncommonly poo poo onboard audio. High output impedance can be solved by getting a decent headphone amp and/or using an audio interface with low output impedance in a dedicated headphone amp section. Not all headphone amps or audio interfaces adhere to this, though. Read the specs. ODAC+O2 is good, so is the Schiit stuff. quote:I haven't tried the Mackies but just due to them having proper balanced output to them is likely going to make them sound better. Not a chance unless you have like >50m cable runs in electrically noisy conditions. That's literally all balanced cables do, they reduce noisy from outside electrical interference. Literally the only reason I run balanced cables from my DSP crossover to my speakers is that the native connection for both the crossover and speakers is XLR. It's always good practice to use as few adapters as possible. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 23:23
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Djarum posted:Personally I am just more comfortable with a DAC that doesn't cost a fraction of a penny. The DAC chips themselves cost roughly the same, whether it's onboard audio or an expensive fancy-pants DAC. It's one of those dirty little secrets the manufacturers don't want to tell you. Obviously, the implementation and surrounding electronics do matter, but the DAC itself costs next to nothing.
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Sep 9, 2015 20:07
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Galaspar posted:I have have an ageing but usable set of Logitech 5.1 speakers which connect through 3 separate audio cables. The new PC I'm buying only has a single audio-out socket, although it supposedly supports 5.1 audio. Is there some kind of adapter that would work, or am I best adding a good-value soundcard with multiple audio-out holes (like, say, an Asus DG)? Like Brain Issues and Killhour noted, it probably only supports 5.1 through a digital output of some sort. There is also the possibility that it has the full complement of analog outputs as headers on the motherboard. In that case you'll need a breakout panel to turn those header pins into proper 3.5mm jacks. If that's the case, your motherboard manufacturer probably sells one. ItBurns posted:Would I be foolish to think that I could just buy these JBL speakers/sub and plug them into my PC? They all have their own amps and my onboard sound works with the 5.1 setup I have now. I guess I would need an adapter to go from the 1/4 inch to 1/8 inch. Not at all, it will be an awesome setup. The most important thing is that you have to set the input sensitivity to -10dBV, which is the output level from consumer equipment such as PCs and most hifi gear. +4dBu is for professional gear, and the JBLs will probably be the only pro gear in your setup. Just follow the manual for instructions on how you need to set it on the speakers as well, it could go both ways, but I bet they have to be at +4dBu, and the sub will handle the level conversion for you as long as that's set correctly. Remember that you need an adapter that goes from stereo 3.5mm jack to 2x mono 6.3mm jack or 2x male XLR. As an alternative, you can get a normal 3.5mm jack to stereo RCA cable and then use two RCA to 6.3mm jack adapters (or RCA to male XLR adapters). Go for whichever options is cheapest. Post a link here before you buy so we can tell if you've got the right cable/adapters. And yeah, you may notice the inadequacies of your onboard sound, as some motherboards put out a shitton of noise on the analog outputs. If that's the case, get something like an ODAC, which is a great USB DAC, proper world-beater for not a lot of money. Or if you've got TOSLINK or S/PDIF output, the FiiO D3 is a great choice, too. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 19:18
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signalnoise posted:I need some small speakers that take RCA and don't gently caress around. I am replacing bookshelf speakers that I don't have space for. Define "don't gently caress around". Audioengine A2s are quite nice, and very small.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:36
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ItBurns posted:Thanks for the advice. So far I have... Yes, that will work perfectly Remember to read the manual for the correct input sensitivity settings on the speakers.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:23
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ItBurns posted:How would I control the volume on this setup? From my PC? Yes, or using a volume control knob like the Fostex PC-1. I'm using one with an old Yamaha power amp for a simple bedroom setup, and it's a very nice little knob. You could also go whole hog and get a stereo preamplifier, that would get you multiple inputs as well. Second hand models are not that expensive. signalnoise posted:Maybe loving around a little bit more than that, I don't really have that kind of money. Looking at similar form factor to the A2's and the Mackies, do you guys know if the M-Audio AV30's are decent? Yes, they are quite decent. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 06:50
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Ordering from Thomann.de is probably the most cost-effective option. Get the LSR305s, or the 308s if you're feeling particularly flush. They'll handle party sound levels no problem.
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Nov 3, 2015 23:34
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Delta-Wye posted:I want to lay my two LSR308s on their side so they fit underneath my monitors. Even if I angle them up at my various face holes, am I still committing an audiophile sin? I, of course, can't hear the difference The wave guide around the tweeter is designed for optimal horizontal dispersion and to reduce vertical dispersion (in order to minimize ceiling/floor reflections) when the speaker is upright. If you put it on its side, you're turning this dispersion pattern 90 degrees and messing up the dispersion pattern that JBL carefully designed into their fancy waveguide. Now, it probably doesn't mean much if you're just sitting right in front of the speakers, but it will make the 'sweet spot' smaller, nullifying one of the big advantages of the LSR series. There are a number of studio monitors where the wave guide for the tweeter can actually be rotated to correct this. There's also the issue that affects all horizontally-placed speakers, namely that the individual speaker drivers are no longer on a vertical line and thus not equally distanced to your ears. This can muddy up the stereo image somewhat, by making the individual instruments etc. not stand out as well as distinct sources in the sound space. Audiophiles care a lot about this. It's worse with common home theater center speakers, where designs with two identical woofers placed relatively far apart cause all kinds of weird comb filtering effects. It's not nearly as bad with a two-way speaker, but it's still there in the crossover band between the woofer and tweeter. However, if you don't mind (or or can't hear or can't be bothered to listen for) these things, who cares? They're your speakers, for your enjoyment. Use them however you'd like I used a set of Dali Concept 1s turned on their sides for ages, because that was the only way they'd fit on my shelf. They sounded just fine to me. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 11:10
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The LSRs use class D amplifiers, so the thermal mass of the backing plate is enough of a heatsink for them. They'll work fine thermally on their side.
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Nov 24, 2015 12:00
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