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Mom, Bro and Nanna won't be there, it'll just be J playing the game by himself. He's the only one whose corpse wasn't removed before the Scratch. 
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Nov 9, 2011 19:52
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gowb posted:Two things should be said, though: 1) Yes, there is another recap coming a little while after [S] Jade: Enter. 2) Something that was known by that point: the trolls aren't "beyond time" or anything, they're just on their own separate timeline in a different universe after having played the game themselves. They're hiding from Jack in a laboratory asteroid in their incipisphere's veil, like the one where John engaged in ectobiolobabysitting. (In fact, the precise one where Karkat played the corresponding role for the trolls.)
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Nov 9, 2011 22:30
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Loving this act so far. I'm terribly curious when the old cast will come barging in, but in the meantime these guys and their increasingly horrific world are very interesting to watch! Hoping for plenty more  .Waffleopolis posted:I really hope you're right. It is... not terribly likely that our John and Jade would have grown old and died offscreen between acts, apparently achieving nothing. So I think we can be pretty sure that this reset timeline includes reset versions of the kids playing the guardian roles. One thing that still isn't clear is how Jake ended up working with Jade across timelines in the first place. Who initiated that?
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Nov 14, 2011 03:20
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I was just thinking this story didn't have enough universes in it yet. Hussie to the rescue. (I do wonder if this is actually the truth. It seems a little too nice.) Also: note the portrait of Grandpa John in the lid of that chest!
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Nov 15, 2011 11:58
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The Signless wasn't a girl. If this is someone from the pre-scratch trollverse, I agree with what seems to be the popular view that it's probably the one corresponding to the Condesce. But despite the daedric font I don't think this is the case - that would just be depressing as hell to follow along, given that we already know their session ends in failure and a Scratch. If UU is genuine, she knows who these players are and that they'll succeed - that alone suggests it's someone else entirely. I think one option is that it's someone from the English-free universe they'll end up creating, although I wouldn't go so far as to say it's certainly that.
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Nov 15, 2011 12:40
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There's one more slightly worrying thing about this conversation that I haven't seen brought up explicitly: UU goes on about the arrival of "the other foUr of legend" and lists the aspects of the original flavour kids - but where does that leave the trolls? She doesn't say "the legendary octet of mUtUal progenitoriety and also their friendly sidekicks from another Universe" or anything. Taking what she says here as non-misleading truth, Dave and Rose are going to make it over just fine; and I very much doubt the trolls are going to just simply not reach the Green Sun, especially as Aradia has already claimed otherwise. So what's with that? Are they going to be doing something else, does UU somehow not know about them (unlikely given how much else she seems to know about the situation), or did she just think it not important or not appropriate to mention them? What Gabriel Pope said above might play into this, I suppose.
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Nov 15, 2011 16:06
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There are many reasons to believe that she does; and they're not related. Genetically they're John and Jade's parents. They're paradox clones of themselves, and the ectobiology machinery made John and Jade by mixing them. (That was, of course, in the pre-scratch session, but what we've seen so far strongly suggests that these guys somehow arrived on the same meteors from the old session rather than having been created at some point in their own upcoming session.)
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Nov 17, 2011 15:06
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Oh, yeah, it certainly hasn't been explicitly confirmed or anything. It just seems to be the likeliest explanation at this point given the evidence. And I do think that the genetic relationships won't change even if something else is going on, although of course I could be wrong about that, too. (I'm just hoping Maplehoof somehow survived the impact this time around so that Dave has a mighty steed whereon to ride across the land righting wrongs wherever he finds them, or possibly rustling cattle. Or whatever.) H.P. Shivcraft posted:And don't forget that Nannasprite said she and Grandpa were meant to be together in some cosmically destined romance that pre-scratch Betty Crocker fouled up by driving Li'l Grandpa away. Yeah, that was one of the reasons I was alluding to. There's got to be something to it, although it could have just been the Condesce's unclear understanding of John and Jade's origins or something.
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Nov 17, 2011 15:37
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Doc Scratch outright said so.
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Nov 19, 2011 12:37
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I guess it's possible that he could have been misleading there, but as far as we can tell he was being pretty straight with Rose as far as the Beat Mesa goes. (What he didn't tell her is exactly how the reset would figure into his or Lord English's plans.) To clarify, the question I was answering was just why people were saying that the Scratch-causing device was always on the Time hero's planet. Fagtastic hadn't made his edits at that point.
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Nov 19, 2011 15:31
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Land of Marimbas and Xylophones. You know how John's associated with the piano, Rose with the violin, etc.? Jake is all about idiophones.
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Nov 19, 2011 21:03
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She took the battlefield, not the entirety of Skaia. She left the Beat Mesa behind, we saw it still ascending into Skaia while she was getting the fourth wall ready.
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Nov 20, 2011 00:17
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Not exactly. What Jade took was just the little chessboard planet in the middle. Everything else remained behind.
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Nov 20, 2011 00:24
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I hesitate to even point this out since she just about outright says it (even referring to arm twisting as in Jake's letter), but it seems UU was the one who brought Jake in contact with Jade and got them started working on Liv Tyler. And she "relayed" the information enabling him to make the weapons; presumably the information will have taken the form of codes, but her wording suggests she got them from someone else first... Also, Jake's continuing need for uranium really makes me hope for a striderlog (brologue?) soon. Will the Striders have some sort of bizarro Lone Ranger thing going on with Maplehoof?! Only time will tell.
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Nov 21, 2011 00:59
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Check this sequence for evidence. Baby Nanna and Grandpa landed very near each other in 1910, on the old timeline.
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Nov 21, 2011 23:05
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Dizz posted:I was thinking he's already dead or he assimilated with the bots he makes and is actually Cal. Bro died in the shower months ago, now he's just haunting his various computers and robots Aradia-style.
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Nov 22, 2011 09:47
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I believe it was the Penny Arcade forums.
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Nov 22, 2011 10:38
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Bobulus posted:The important thing to remember is that those same meteors went to both the B1 and B2 sessions, just in a different order This exactly. People have been suspecting this for a while, but the fact that John's book has this message in it is probably the strongest piece of evidence in its favour yet. Still isn't explicitly confirmed, but it seems like if it wasn't true, the explanations for some of this stuff would strain credibility even by Homestuck's standards! We'll see. It really does seem to be true, though, which raises the question of how that actually works. Is it just that Skaia's defense portals lead to Earth regardless of what timeline might be going on in there? That seems unlikely unless Jack, the Exiles, and pre-scratch Grandpa with his ship are going to show up at some point, which feels like it's most probably not going to happen. But if not, that would mean there's something special about baby-bearing meteors, or those specific portals they just happened to pass through. I guess that's not too much to accept. (Clearly it'll turn out that all the portals do work that way. The big asteroid looming over Jade's house is the one with the trolls on it after they mispilot it into a portal, having lost Sollux. The other version of it will be destroyed by Jake's brobotsprite as it descends. )
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Nov 24, 2011 09:12
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The old B1 session hasn't completely unhappened or anything, there are still things around that originate in it - like the original four kids, and PM, WV and Jack. Remember that technically, the Incipisphere is not part of the parent universe. So if the way it works is that at least the (B1 session) portals the baby meteors passed through simply send things to Earth, no matter what timeline is on the other end, then that would be a mechanism by which the same meteors from the B1 session could land on both B1 earth and B2 earth. Mind you, we haven't had anything to directly tell us what's actually going on here or how it works, but this is a pretty strong possibility at this point.
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Nov 24, 2011 09:46
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That was kind of my point - the bunnies are a lot easier to think of new origins for than the message in the book. Jane's idea doesn't really cut it. And just as a reminder: this idea predates seeing the bunnies. I think it originally came from Doc Scratch mentioning that the A1 trolls had not been spawned in their own session (edit: see Bobulus' post above, made while I was typing), one possible reason for which is that the ones Karkat made landed on both the A1 and A2 iterations of Alternia. At the time it seemed more likely to me that they just had no origin - which would be a pretty severe glitch for their session to suffer - but this makes sense also: they had to reset their session because that's a necessary condition of their own creation. In any case, most likely this is going to be true of either both the trolls and the humans or neither. I think the signs are pointing toward "both" right now, but Plom Bar has a point; it'll be a while before we find out, but we will. In the meantime, though, it's kind of fun to think about.
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Nov 24, 2011 11:00
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What Doc Scratch said was that the lack of ectobiology in the A1 session was the symptom of a glitch affecting that session; Lord English's calling card is the glitch itself, not the symptom. It is still not entirely clear what was meant by that, but it's possible that it refers to how (if the "one set of meteors" thing is true) the A1 trolls' creation hinged on their self-annihilation through the Scratch, or perhaps even to the Scratch itself. We'll have to wait for more evidence, I think, especially as regards Lord English's presence/influence (or lack thereof) in the B2 universe. Note, incidentally, that on the relevant page Doc Scratch says: quote:The heroes chose to accept this bargain, and scratched their session. In doing so they jumpstarted the reality in which the twenty-four figures of legend would together be created - and I as well - and then sent back in time to take our places in history. The idea that the A1 trolls arrived on the same meteors from the A2 session's veil as their A2 counterparts ties very neatly into this phrasing as well. Of course, that still doesn't make it definite but it really does seem like the tidiest hypothesis right now. edit: Cyrai posted:They'll even have the actual Beat Mesa because Jade brought it with her They don't. The Beat Mesa was left behind, we saw it ascending into Skaia after Jade removed the core Battlefield.
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Nov 24, 2011 19:42
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That's why it'd be so convenient if the session in which they were created had already happened (for some values of "already" and "happened") - under these assumptions, the A1 trolls had to erase their original timeline to make their own existence possible, whereas the B2 humans were created in an offshoot of the B1 timeline which also started the B2 one. UU laid this out pretty clearly, I thought: A1 (pre-scratch trollverse) begets A1' (pre-scratch troll incipisphere) begets A2 (post-scratch trollverse) begets A2' (post-scratch troll incipisphere). In A2', 24 trolls are created by ectobiology and sent back to A2 - and, hypothetically, back across the scratch to A1. This means A1 depends on its own annihilation and the emergence of A2', which is as clear a sign that a time-travelling rapping clown puppet crocodile pirate mobster demon mummy is influencing things as I've ever seen. A2' begets B1 (the human universe from Act 1) begets B1' (the original human incipisphere) begets B2 (we're watching that now), which will beget B2' and through it presumably C, whether or not C is where UU is sitting. Eight humans created in B1' are sent to B1 as we saw, but - again hypothetically - also forward to B2, which is not the same sort of problem because the dependence is not circular. Hamiltonian Bicycle fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 24, 2011 |
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Nov 24, 2011 19:52
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I love that bit. It catches Dave so completely off guard. I also like how Terezi is probably the only one who got anything productive out of her Exile. Must be the Seer of Mind thing, she seemed to guess what was going on pretty quickly. King of Solomon posted:Guys, they can't just find the book and send it off in Jane's ectobiological session because it's already been sent off. The only one they could send is the already old and beaten version, and that wouldn't make sense. Yeah, that's what annatar was proposing. I also don't think it's likely; you'll notice if you compare that this book is slightly more distressed than the one John found in the safe (that is, the images are slightly darkened) but I'd say it looks more like it's been around longer since impact this time (because John has) than like it's been through another meteor strike. But I don't think it's a good idea to be too assertive based on that kind of evidence.
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Nov 24, 2011 20:24
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That probably is not what it means. What some of us think it probably means (check the last couple pages for more talk on the subject) is that it's more evidence in favour of the idea that the kids/guardians arrived on literally the same meteors from the B1 veil as before, carrying the same items, just at different times and in different circumstances because it's a different timeline. So if that's true, then this is not B1 John; it's B2 John, who arrived with the book Nannasprite signed in the B1 session because that's what was with him on the meteor. This time he grew old with the book on Earth.
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Nov 25, 2011 12:35
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Because the whole problem of the A1 trolls was, explicitly, that they weren't made ectobiologically during their session. A possible explanation is that they were in fact the same grubs Karkat made during the A2 session, sent back to both A1 and A2.
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Nov 25, 2011 12:50
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Unlikely.quote:As was true of the bellicose world we know, there came to be twelve heroes on this peaceful planet. These heroes too had twelve ancestors whose fortunes were entwined with theirs. These twenty-four figures of legend were not of this world but sent from the sky, delivered from a reality not yet conceived.
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Nov 25, 2011 14:03
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In a shocking twist they'll all die before entry (Jake to that wrestlebot, Jane to a successful assassination attempt, Mom by alcohol poisoning, and Bro of course has been dead in that shower cabin for weeks), leaving the Striderbots to set the game up for them while they somehow god it up in the unprototyped Incipisphere.
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Nov 26, 2011 15:12
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Of course it's a continuation of the old pumpkin joke more than anything else, but specifically it's the part of the joke where we hear what happened to all of Jade's pumpkins. (And also that this is not their final resting place.)
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Nov 27, 2011 08:50
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Amazing timing there. Poor Tinkerbull(esque creatures) can't catch a break wherever they go.
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Nov 29, 2011 22:13
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I would say that this is exactly as funny, and exactly as much intended to be funny, as the original Tinkerbull's death. (That is to say: not funny at all, you monster. But also hilarious.) And perhaps Bro is not dead in the shower after all! Perhaps he is instead pretending to be a robot here on hellmurder island, having left behind some clothes and a running shower as a cover story; Jake will track him down and shoot him, then carve him open to discover, hidden in the stomach, a large nugget of uranium.
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Nov 30, 2011 01:06
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Hoping the litte radically awesome robbit will mind its manners today, seconds after it cut the head off the beloved corpse in which it was hiding for whatever reason. I think that horse has long left the building, Jane. (I'd be fascinated to see what would be serious mischief by this guy's standards.)
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Nov 30, 2011 06:19
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Just in case this was Cyrai's or anyone else's problem: "getting served like a dude on butler island" is an old Dave thing, hence its application to Bro(bot) here. The presence of fauna resembling Aurthour just adds another element to the joke.
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Dec 1, 2011 11:10
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It's almost weirding me out now how much more candid Bro seems to be. (And: of course Poppop's eye got nicked when his head dropped. It was obvious something was going to happen to his eye as soon as he lost his arm, but it should nevertheless be pointed out that it's done now.)
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Dec 2, 2011 09:47
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I have to say you're overstating it a little, Dolash. I mean if you're in a Davesprite situation it's true that whatever made you go back hasn't really "un-happened" (your presence is proof of that) and you and your friends have been superseded by other instances who get to live their lives from that point forward without whatever catastrophe you averted, but they are still the same people. Up to the point of divergence, everything they were, did, and experienced was exactly the same. It's just that you remember what happened to them on the other branch, and you don't get to be the main you anymore. There's this other person who is exactly who you were a while ago, with friends who are exactly who your friends were a while ago. This is inherently alienating and awkward, especially if alpha timeline bullshit pushes you into a "lesser" role like Davesprite's, but it's not a complete separation from everything that ever mattered to you.
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Dec 2, 2011 21:44
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Unless I'm sorely mistaken we never saw Typheus, as far as we know. ("Typhus" is typhoid fever.) What we saw is a) a big taxidermied "Typheus minion" wormy creature in Jade's house, b) various wells and things emitting windy Typheus noises and c) beta John waving at his offscreen memory of Typheus while explaining matters to Vriska. (Also John's browser icon, I guess.)
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Dec 3, 2011 00:33
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Shipping costs.  It's like they have to move this stuff across an ocean or something.
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Dec 3, 2011 09:47
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Midnight Raider posted:From the placement of the page in the example photo, I think this book will be either about half of Act 1, or all of Act 1, mostly because I'm stupid and forgot precisely where that scene was. It's precisely Act 1, according to the store page. I ended up getting over the shipping costs and ordering one, even contributing to future story delays by taking the +doodle option. Of course if any part of the story easily lends itself to print, it's Act 1, but I still want to see how it'll go. Also, hey, author commentary. I always like to see a little of that. In more current talk, I guess Jake with his dead dreamself might soon serve as a more direct interface between the B2 cast and the green sun/furthest ring/dead crew. John and Jade of course will just smash their way in through a fourth wall, but we don't yet know the details of how Dave and Rose will find their way, and we don't really know anything about what kind of role the trolls will play for the rest of the story. If nothing else, it seems like bubbletalk would be pretty likely to happen as soon as he goes to sleep with no Prospit self to be - and I guess everyone will have a less jarring time if they know who's coming. It would make sense for Jake to play that role if anyone did, given his correspondence with Jade.
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Dec 3, 2011 22:59
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I don't know, the book doesn't look that thick - acts 2, 3+I and 4 could each probably fit in a book not that much more than twice the size. Not sure if that's necessarily the way it'll go - it might not be economical or whatever to print thick illustration-heavy paperbacks - but it only becomes completely unfeasible with Act 5.
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Dec 3, 2011 23:12
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Some more of Jane and Bro's conversation has appeared. Bro is honestly getting pretty interesting, I wouldn't have expected him to be both earnestly devoted to the ironies and as frank as he's being here. Also interesting: Bro seems to have some awareness of ectobiological shenanigans. I wonder just how much he knows or thinks he knows about the nature of his genetic relation to Dave.
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Dec 4, 2011 01:40
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quote:TT: Through an intense commitment bordering on religious devotion to the absolutely inane, absurd, or plain loving stupid, a very different kind of sincerity begins to materialize. One of reverence to the ridiculous. You begin to "mean it," but what exactly it is you mean is never quite what appears on the surface, and is utterly inaccessible to obtuse and literal minds. That you "mean it" then becomes inseparable from the joke, and additional rich strata of humor my be stripped aggressively from this irreconcilable truth. Oddly enough, and perhaps not unintentionally, this also kind of describes part of what makes Homestuck so interesting, at least to me. It's incredibly silly but not vacuously so - it has this weird core of sincerity which is often made part of the joke but never seems to break. v  vOn another note, Jane mentions "movies", plural. We only know about "Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff: The Moive". Maybe they're just all titled that.
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Dec 4, 2011 01:58
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