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Level Slide posted:I'd like for a role reversal like the troll universe if only to see the then-ancestor now-player kids flip their poo poo when they encounter the 13-year-old god tier versions of their guardians and it would be pretty cool (to me, at least) to see some human dimensions associated with characters who were once perceived to be faceless pillars of awesomeness. I keep telling myself that this is stupid and Andrew's already announced that from here on out things are going to be rapidly wrapping up and there's no way he'd digress into trying to flesh out another twelve far-background characters. But I can't make myself believe it.
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Nov 1, 2011 19:53
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Mazerunner posted:But it wouldn't be twelve, it'd be... four. And we're not talking fully realized characters like Vriska, or Dave or whatever, more like Equius, Sollux or Aradia at most. If anything they'd be taking up the slack that the deaths of the Exiles, a bunch of Trolls and the current Guardians left, I guess. Whoops I just skimmed that post and thought he was talking about re-rebooting the troll universe for some reason. ActionZero posted:On the topic of Xamag's art (which is indeed excellent), can anyone think of a decent title text for this avatar? Keep it simple. Do something like "TG: man what".
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Nov 1, 2011 20:36
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Captain Oblivious posted:
EB: no, rose! EB: that sort of nonsense is exactly what is out of the question!
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Nov 2, 2011 03:35
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Idunn posted:Foreshadowing I should remind you that the genetic code of Earth's First Guardian is not made up of the characters "t1ck t0ck 8r8k h34ds h0nk H0NK", but "MEOW." Jaspers 
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Nov 2, 2011 13:46
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Dolash posted:I'm getting strong "Demon Mobster Kingpin" vibes from this villain. Now that he's here, the rest of the story is probably going to focus on fighting him. Well, he's here in an empty, destroyed universe. The history of Alternia's universe, start to finish, is presumably set in stone now and can't be changed, so any opposition to Lord English is probably going to take place somewhere else. Anyhow, speaking of the 8r8k h34ds code: Aradia described the full genetic code phrase as representing the sounds that would accompany "the ultimate demise of the tyrant less an arm and an eye." Could this have been referring to Doc Scratch? At the time of his "death" he was pretty tyrannical and missing an arm; I wonder if he could be said to be missing an eye in any sense. I guess the cueball he exploded in Vriska's face was kind of eyeball-like but we've never had any indication that the cueballs serve any sensory function for Scratch. UserMan posted:Sort of, if you buy the Squiddles album its come with a Music Video, although its not really related to the plot of Homestuck in any solid way. Well, it wasn't related.  Also I think it got released for free at some point.Rooreelooo posted:Shouldn't the code be tICK t0ck 8r8k h34ds honk HONK Whoops actually it was honk HONK, so that part was indeed in character. Anyhow, they were basically possessed at the time. I like to think Tavros is just such a spineless goober he didn't have the willpower to force his own quirk. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Nov 2, 2011 |
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Nov 2, 2011 14:32
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Radio Paranoia posted:AbortedSlunk actually has the full Squiddles flash up on their Deviantart. The staticky magical girls seem a lot more ominous now that we know more about Lord English's proclivities. Actually, if the theory that Green Sun godtiers = LE's servants rings true, does... does that make Dave a squiddlegirl?
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Nov 2, 2011 14:56
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Fortis posted:Lord English's peg leg is reminiscent of Skipper Plumbthroat, huh? Skipper Plumbthroat doesn't even have a pegleg!
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Nov 2, 2011 15:22
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Evil Mastermind posted:Wasn't it established a long time ago that LE was killing the Horrorterrors? Or am I misremembering? Nope. All we have is the horrorterrors telling Rose that something is killing them off at an unknown point in time.
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Nov 2, 2011 17:32
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Dr Christmas posted:Random question: Why didn't the Black King from the trolls' session give up his staff after it got prototyped with the frog statue, like the Queen did with her ring? I've been rushing through to recap, so I might have missed it. The Black Queen's decision was ascribed to "the vanity of a Queen" or some bullshit like that. Also, the Queen kind of rules from behind the scenes and was operating on the theory that it wouldn't matter that she didn't have the ring. The King fights on the front lines on the Battlefield and if he didn't have his Sceptre he would get curb-stomped in short order.
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Nov 2, 2011 18:01
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Hanks Lust Cafe posted:see: Every instance of Lord English fanart before the reveal Well, at least the top one has a demonic skullface (also I think it's goon-made.) Just completely lost it at LORDU ENGURISU at the bottom, though. He's just like something out of one of my Japanese animes 
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Nov 2, 2011 19:20
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What? God Tier John totally died and the universe brought him back from the dead with magical glowy fireworks and everything.
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Nov 2, 2011 22:53
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Eiba posted:I mean, as far as going around just killing everyone all unstoppable-like, we've got that covered. So what exactly is Lord English going to do? He's already done it. He has literally been behind the scenes of everything that has ever happened on Alternia. He is the man behind the man behind the sn0wman. Which does make the sheer brutish power of his appearance a bit odd, but not wholly surprising. We have been told, repeatedly, that Lord English is a figure of incredible power and incredible evil, and it's hard to argue that the guy we see burst out of Scratch doesn't fit the bill.
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Nov 3, 2011 00:56
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GenericOverusedName posted:Oh, right. I forgot about that. It was a signalling issue. The trolls weren't paying any attention to the kids' universe at all until Terezi saw an absurd amount of (practically worthless) money drop in her account and tracked down the source.
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Nov 4, 2011 14:50
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Kakumei posted:I don't get this perspective at all. The logs are, like, the best part of the whole comic. When you're in the middle of a book you're really enjoying do you say UGH I'm only HALFWAY THROUGH what a loving SLOG through all of this ENJOYABLE AND FUN TEXT. Imagine you're watching some really gripping, compelling movie in the theater, like National Treasure 2: National Treasurer. Now imagine that between every scene, they cut in a really hilarious comedy skit from an unrelated acting troupe. It's all funny poo poo, but it would still make for a pretty obnoxious watching experience!
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Nov 6, 2011 17:02
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Kit Walker posted:It's a webcomic. It's a medium that's fundamentally about words, with pictures to help give life to the action. You can't complain about having words in something you read. It is a good thing I have never, ever complained about such a thing then! Complaining about random digressions of little to no relevance about the plot is something else entirely, but: Mr. Pumroy posted:I would get annoyed, seeing as how I would have given up 10 dollars and 2 hours to watch National Treasure 2. Since this is a webcomic I'm not liable to get worked up about it. Besides very few of the interludes haven't in some way added to the overall story to the point where by the time the next interlude arrives I don't want the previous one to end. I'm not exactly worked up about it myself. It's an entirely valid critique, though, and while I enjoy it enough that it does not detract significantly from my personal experience I'm not going to jump on people who find Homestuck's flaws less endearing than I do.
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Nov 6, 2011 17:42
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Dvega posted:http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005451 Jack still had Cal when he arrived in the troll session immediately post-hand-bloodying.
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Nov 6, 2011 18:11
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CidGregor posted:The longer the better, I say. Being able to write concise and efficiently is a pretty huge part of the writer's craft, though, which is why writers have editors and not merely proofreaders. And why, when more egotistical authors get famous enough to start overruling their editors, their books often start getting much longer and much worse. Andrew Hussie openly admits that this is an area where Homestuck objectively suffers, he just doesn't care. He has his own priorities, and in his own words writing a really technically well-crafted story is not a particularly important goal in writing Homestuck. It's full of experimental bits and ideas that don't always pan out and Andrew Hussie goofing around on a whim with whatever strikes him as funny at the moment. Like most posters in this thread I find the experimental bits fascinating and the goofing around funny, but that doesn't mean that they don't sometimes detract from the overall literary quality of the story. While it's true that some people just fuckin' hate words, on the whole, when someone complains about the pesterlogs and journallogs dragging things out it's a complaint with objective merit behind it.
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Nov 6, 2011 22:50
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CidGregor posted:And for the record I don't really like the implication that longer = worse in your first paragraph. There's something to be said for being succinct in the narrow focus and the "here and now" but having a big long story isn't a bad thing. Right, but there's a difference between a story that's big and long because it is an involved story and that's the proper amount of time to devote to it, and a story that's big and long because it has a lot of unnecessary padding. It's not as though brevity is strictly superior, either; the concept is merely that there is probably a more or less ideal length of time for a given story, and that going too long or too short is generally detrimental. It's just that it's pretty rare for an author to err on the side of too short. Sometimes authors will do experimental stuff with hyper-concise stories though, and this tends to be interesting even if it is technically suboptimal (not unlike Homestuck, albeit in the opposite direction.) I don't think the concept of an ideal length should be particularly controversial. When a movie critic says a movie's too long, nobody says "what clearly this guy must hate watching movies, obviously more is better." the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 00:20
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Under the vegetable posted:You gotta have better things to do than pretend you know how to tell a story better than arguably the best storyteller in the preadolescent field of digital comics. You gotta. Thankfully I have the best storyteller in webcomics on my side, because I haven't said anything that Andrew Hussie hasn't said himself on his Formspring.
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Nov 7, 2011 00:46
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annatar posted:Finally I'm not convinced you can call Hussie the best with certainty in this form; only the most ambitious in terms of labour intensity, and in terms volume and variety of media.I think Evan Dahm the dude from Rice Boy produces tighter and more coherent work and might be reasonably be called better, and I bet theres plenty of other people who are way more widely 'read' than me who can point to any number of online graphic artists who could be called better. I think he's ambitious in more than just volume and variety. Under the vegetable makes the point that Homestuck is an aggressively experimental work, and I think it's fair to say that we are reading a watershed piece in webcomics history, regardless of Homestuck's objective quality (which is still good!) EDIT: Spatula City posted:I think often Hussie's ambition exceeds his grasp, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. And besides, I think Homestuck is almost certainly a warm-up for Hussie's future masterworks, rather than being a master work itself. In this, as with Problem Sleuth, he's figuring poo poo out as he goes, constantly evolving and learning. Experimenting with various storytelling methods in ways few other webcomics have ever attempted. Unlike a movie or a novel, a serial work like a narrative comic or television series is liable to have a lot of weird kinks and things that don't work out. For example, I think Hussie may have spent too much time on the weird, hosed up relationship between Vriska and Tavros. Though, I don't know, maybe it pays off later, but now it seems like an unnecessarily long set-up for Vriska's friendship with John. Aaaaaaaanyway, Homestuck has a lot of flaws, but can you point to anything else on the internet with the sheer scope, ambition, and wild experimentation? Everyone read this post and then shut up because it says pretty much everything that needs to be said on the subject.
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Nov 7, 2011 01:20
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Mr. Lobe posted:Some people seem to get that impression of him. I'm not completely sure why, he always seemed self-effacing in his "self-aggrandizement". One recurring criticism I've noticed is that some people take his tendency to over-explain stuff as being condescending. It probably doesn't help that sometimes he does outright talk down to people in response to some of the dumber questions readers have, so I can't blame people reading his more neutral nuts-and-bolts commentaries as also being smug. He also sticks to his guns, hard, which really irritates some people. I don't think it's fair to compare him to Buckley on this point; while a few of his rants have been kind of petty he does usually acknowledge flaws, he just tends to justify them as acceptable trade-offs.
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Nov 7, 2011 19:51
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gowb posted:Okay, I'm on my first read-thru of this book-comic-movie thing, and oddly enough I just got to that part! And I'd like to ask, why did Bec prototype himself? Why didn't he just warp the meteor, or throw something else into the sprite? It also seems really bad that he prototyped himself, and apparently Jack is the end boss? Which is something I hadn't picked up. Is there another recap coming, because I took a long break and forgot some of the things that were happening. I think the canonical answer for why Bec did anything is because Bec is a dog and dogs aren't good at problem-solving. The gray room isn't especially well explained at first. It's a laboratory on one of the random meteors in the Veil floating around the trolls' game session. The meteors are full of random laboratories like this--John used one to ectobiologize all the kids and guardians, and AR witnessed DD creating Bec in a different one. The meteor the trolls are on has no known significance in particular, other than being a place that's out of the way of Jack's rampage. The "rift" is a complicated subject and basically the rest of the (ungodly huge) Act 5 deals with how it actually happens. The thing is, when you first see trolls talking about the rift, they don't really understand what the rift is. What it is and what causes it doesn't really come to light until later. EDIT: pbbbbbbtht 
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Nov 9, 2011 22:32
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gowb posted:I must have missed the part where Karkat played that role for the trolls! Or it hasn't been revealed yet. I kinda hate all the time travel parts of this story. Except for the powers of the Green Gang, which were hilarious. They're not actually connected. The trolls have their own copy of Prospit, Derse, and Skaia, and they're all substantially similar to the ones in the kids' game but they're different (in particular the troll Prospit/Derse moons have more towers, since they have more players.) Note that they also have copies of the inhabitants of Prospit and Derse, such as the white and black king and queen. There was also a different copy of Jack in the trolls' game as well. There haven't been any actual kid/troll meetups, but there is an afterlife-slash-dreamworld where they can "meet." The trolls' dreamselves were all killed and now Jade's is dead too, so when they sleep they can interact with each others' dead dreamselves in extradimensional "dream bubbles." There was a conversation between Feferi and Jade right before [S] Jade: Enter that talked about this stuff.
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Nov 9, 2011 22:53
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gowb posted:I'm not sure how I feel about it overall, but it is certainly engaging once you get past the hump of not knowing what the gently caress. Probably one of the most apt descriptions of Homestuck I've ever seen.
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Nov 10, 2011 22:43
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gowb posted:That's true, I guess. When I said SKIM, I mean SKIM, though! I didn't NOT read the chatlogs. I read every single one. I simply skimmed for the important parts. I caught everything that was possible to catch, and still would not have picked up the parts that Hussie summarizes in his blog. I believe it would be impossible to - at least, I would significantly doubt anyone who said they picked up the whole story before seeing it summarized by the author, and I think that qualifies as poor storytelling. Almost all of what he talks about in the summary is stuff that was established prior to the flash. A few bits are pretty drat obscure, like the transportation device that Jack used in WV's exile station: it was there, and you could possibly infer its relevance from the general symbolism, but it only shows up in the background a couple of times and by the time it shows up in the flash there has been nine months worth of comic since the exiles' last appearance. So it technically was there to puzzle out beforehand, but it's hard to blame a casual reader for not having picked up on it in advance. The part that you truly could not know in advance, is, of course, the big plot twist about the Green Sun's creation. It's a plot twist; it's not necessarily supposed to be known in advance, although you know that 1) Bad Things will happen as a side effect of the Tumor bomb plan and 2) Doc Scratch is not very trustworthy in spite of his dedication to literal honesty. So it's not unreasonable to expect the reader to have some sort of premonition that something's up with the whole plan. On the other hand, the exact form of the sun-creating Tumor apparatus is kind of weird, in a "what the hell is this thing doing here?" sort of sense. It is maybe a little bit of a deus ex machina, although a more specific explanation may come along in Act 6. Worse, though, what it actually does really isn't particularly clear; a lot of people misinterpreted that part of the flash. Andrew Hussie acknowledges this and attributes it to the success of the thoroughly convincing setup for the Green Sun twist, which is an artful way to avoid admitting that your animation did not do a very good job of conveying critical information to viewers.
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Nov 10, 2011 23:31
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Seoinin posted:Man, this ain't Gravity's Rainbow; there's a ton of poo poo you can just skim and not lose anything for having done so. Like the loving Tavros v. Gamzee rap battle - you're not missing any elusive narrative subtext by just giving it a once over and moving on. Well, not yet. 
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Nov 10, 2011 23:47
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Nate RFB posted:gently caress it, let's re-do Acts 1-4 with the guardians. I'm game. I would be surprisingly okay with this, but as soon as we hit Act 5 Part 2 Redux I am loving outta here.
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Nov 11, 2011 15:51
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Davealicious posted:Didn't see anyone else mention this yet, but I just noticed the smallest of details. the caterpillar thing on Jane's shirt has a D: face on it, whereas John's always had a I just have flashbacks to John vs. Dad in Act 1 and picture new Earth as being some kind of aggressively nice pastry-based empire of conquest through baked goods.
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Nov 11, 2011 17:57
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(you can see it on page 1 of Homestuck). Not sure what this means for this universe, but I don't think it's good if even caterpillars aren't happy!
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Renaissance Robot posted:Probably something along the lines of having to do things a certain way to ensure things would happen the way they did so that she'd get there in the first place. So more ontological poo poo basically, or from our perspective outside the story 'just because'. Also, she may not be working alone. In old Earth she was one admittedly powerful alien with a bakery company at her control. The Scratch quite possibly inserted more of Lord English's minions into the new Earth universe to help facilitate "proper" development for English's eventual summoning, just like old Alternia's Scratch did.
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Nov 11, 2011 18:52
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President Ark posted:Every day, with the occasional twice-a-day update (usually 12+ hours apart). If he cranks production back up to pre-2011 levels (and it seems kind of likely that he'll be looking to blitz through this post-Scratch reintro stuff, although that may just be wishful thinking talking) expect 2-3 batches of panels to hit most days, usually spread out between the hours of roughly 3 PM to 3 AM EST.
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Nov 11, 2011 19:23
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Slime posted:Also, his bedsheets have Lusii on them. Including one that looks awfully...serpentlike. Although it looks like an eastern dragon to me than a snake so it's probably NOTHING AT ALL. It's got two sets of legs, which is two more than snakes have. Could be Gamzee's lusus; I don't think we ever got a full look at its hindquarters.
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Nov 11, 2011 23:27
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creationist believer posted:Based on the existence of the presence of almost all of the artifacts that the ghost slime babies rode back with, I think it's possible that the portals of the pre-scratch reckoning somehow sent the paradox babies to both pre-scratch Earth and post-scratch Earth. That is, the players in this session didn't spawn in this session, like the pre-scratch trolls. This is Lord English's calling card, but this timeline won't have Lord English or Doc Scratch in it. A scratched version of it will/would. I think the conflict in this act could be Jane, Jake, Bro, and Mom unwittingly stumbling toward redoing the scratch while the pre-scratch heroes are working to prevent it. It's an interesting theory, and explains some stuff like Nanasprite obliquely talking about having played The Game in her youth. But there were definitely 8 meteor babies that hit Earth.
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Nov 12, 2011 02:00
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King of Solomon posted:This is interesting, because it's clear from the Troll session that 24 meteors hit Alternia at varying points in time, but somehow the trolls and their ancestors managed to also be sent to the pre-Scratch universe, too. This really makes me wonder if that'll also be the case for the kids' universe (except the meteors will have originated from the pre-Scratch universe instead of the post-Scratch universe.) Hmm. What evidence do we have that the trollcestors arrived in post-scratch Alternia in meteors, though? I think Mindfang's journal was from a meteor, but that was a fresh one, wasn't it? Oh, hey, here's a thought. When Doc Scratch said that the pre-scratch Alternia session was glitched, he said that the glitch was that the then-current players did not originate in that session... but that doesn't mean that they didn't make any ectobabies. What if it's a mobius double reacharound sort of thing? Suppose both pre-scratch and post-scratch sessions make a full set of babies, and the glitch swaps them around: John was actually sending ectobabies into the post-scratch universe (which gets the hat and book etc. into post-scratch Earth!), and the actual kids that hit Earth will be made by Jane later. This would mean pre-scratch Earth is marked by Lord English's glitch. Lord of Laughton posted:And sollux's has two dream selfs. Maybe that's the Mage of Doom power. Having an extra life means extra capacity for doom. Or maybe the "Doom" title is like, you know, Doom as in Doctor Doom. You know how every time they kill Doom it turns out it's just a robot fake? That's the Hero of Doom's power. 
the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Nov 12, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 02:22
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King of Solomon posted:Hm, well, whether pre-Scratch Earth was affected or not, they did Scratch the universe, which is a method of "fixing" the inherent problems. At this point I'm pretty convinced about the ectobaby switcharound. When John sends "Bro" off through the meteor portal he's carrying a copy of Cal wearing Derse pajamas; the Act 6 intro shows post-scratch Cal still wearing them (along with very conspicuous shots of most of the other artifacts John sent off with the ectobabies.) My money's on John having sent his batch of slime babies into the post-scratch universe. He also sent a very much living Maplehoof along with "Dave". We assume that Maplehoof's scorched corpse is a result of the meteor landing, but none of the other meteor cargo is damaged; the babies are unharmed, the flintlock pistols are in working condition, the bunnies aren't in any worse shape than when they were delivered, and we've never seen any signs of scorch marks on Cal. So I'm guessing that Maplehoof arrived in post-scratch Earth safe and sound and is still alive there, but one of the guardiankids will accidentally barbecue her before sending her charred corpse back to Earth with a fresh ectodave.
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Nov 12, 2011 03:11
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Gizmotinker posted:Maid of Life (Feferi 2.0) Man that gives us like 3 heroes of space and time. I'm still leaning towards the Void/Heart concept; maybe paradox space knows that there are a couple of extra Heroes of Spacetime heading for the new universe and decides those titles can be skipped. Betting Bro is the Rogue of Void, on account of that was Equius's title and they've both got the weirdo factor going. Also I do think that Void is going to be pretty important to the story; the Mindfang journals brought up the concept that Equius and his ancestor had the natural power of obscuring Doc Scratch's omniscience, so if Bro inherits similar powers that could be key. EDIT: Also MSPA posted:You make a dutiful motion toward your TRUSTY FIREARMS, doing your part to assail the mushy carcass of a horse that passed away long ago, when suddenly a WILD CHARACTER-SELECT SCREEN APPROACHES!!!!!!!!!! I know this is just a metaphor for beating a dead horse in response to the long-running arms gag, but maybe I should rescind the prediction about Maplehoof being safe and sound on post-scratch Earth I'm still feeling good about the rest of the prediction, though, and take the mention of horse carcasses as a possible hint.
the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Nov 12, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 03:46
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Walliard posted:Bunch of answers. Jake English is indeed a really pulpy, badass name, as is befitting someone so enamored of firearms and fisticuffs. Here's hoping we get a lot of JAKE ENGLISH AND THE (SOMETHING) OF (SOMETHING) vintage poster style fanart in the vein of that time-traveling demon one, because with a name like that he's asking for it.
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Nov 12, 2011 16:08
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WAMPA_STOMPA posted:I don't think the artifacts mean there were two copies of each kid meteor. The kids/guardians/artifacts probably got distributed the same way they were in the first session. Things get weird when we get to Cal, though. Did the Scratch also reset the trolls' timeline so that there's another version of Gamzee currently hating Cal into existence in the dreams of scratched-Bro?
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Nov 12, 2011 19:17
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Okay, so Dave and Bro are still the Striders. Jane's maiden name is Crocker, which is presumably the same across both sessions (Egbert being her married name in the universe we're familiar with.) So far we're consistent across universes. In the old universe Grandpa Jake was her adopted brother and presumably was also named Crocker originally, but when he ran away he took on the name of his old dog in true pulp adventurer fashion. So... how did this universe's Jake wind up with the last name English? Did... did Grandma Jade marry Lord English? 
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Nov 14, 2011 03:47
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Mr. Pumroy posted:She is a bit off though, cuz she apparently spaces out at the sight of the sky (maybe it's from being subliminally influenced by banner ads) and being outside is grounds for getting in trouble with Dad. Maybe spacing out at the sky is related to some kind of suppressed memory of Skaia? Either from some kind of half-awake Prospit shenanigans, or leaking pre-scratch memories (Nanna did mention playing The Game in her youth somehow, so it seems likely that there's some memory leaking involved somewhere along the line.)
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Nov 14, 2011 16:58
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Citizen Rat posted:Replacing as in some sort of plot shenanigans? No. But more that the plot has now moved past them? Probably. I didn't say they were an afterthought, I said their section of the story is (maybe/probably) done. You're right. The fact that the trolls are now physically grouped up with two of the four human main characters is indicative that they're not going to have any more role to play in the story. Clearly what's going to happen when the rest of the trolls arrive at the Green Sun where Aradia and Sollux are already hanging out with the Dersekids is that Dave will just go "welp peace out y'all" and they're going to leave the trolls sitting there staring at the Green Sun for the rest of time while they head back to earth.
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Nov 15, 2011 02:27
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