MSPaint Adventures - Homestuck Edition, the Final Acts

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Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Slime posted:

If Horroterrors oppose creation, what I'm wondering is why. Is it their method of denying LE a meal? Opposing creation isn't the same as destruction, and they don't seem to have shown any interest in destroying anything. Maybe they don't so much oppose creation as they oppose change. You did say that the dream bubbles offer no ability for people to change. Maybe what the Horrorterrors want is a perfect, unchanging paradox space. No creation, no destruction, just a static, unending world where every day is the same as the last.

Their motives might not necessarily be to deny LE any power, but perhaps to contain him? If there're no more universes to create, then maybe it stagnates LE's power, or even the Green Sun itself. I'll buy that they want things to remain static; it's the best explanation so far on why they gave Dave and Rose specific instructions on where to place the tumor.

This...is gonna be a dumb question, but has there been any speculation that Jade's universe tadpole survived the volcano trip? Assuming that against all odds it did, is it in some sort of stasis? If she still has access to her planet (and all her equipment) can she just make another?

# ¿ Mar 14, 2012 16:24

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 18:50

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

JT Jag posted:

Problem being Jade didn't bring all of Skaia with her to the new session. Just the Battlefield.

Of course, in theory the B2 kids' Skaia could serve the same purpose... assuming it hasn't irrevocably been hosed up by them not prototyping anything.

That's part of why I'm antsy about it too. If it's Skaia itself that's supposed to serve as the "crucible," then awesome, we have a new Skaia to deal with. But Jade took the battlefield for a reason, so it seems like it's needed to usher in the new universe too.

The other semi-related thing that keeps bugging me was the book in Rose's walkaround. It talked about adding orbs to a ring, which I at first took to mean that there would be 8 orbs total by adding the B1 and B2 session. But now that there aren't any orbs, or prototyping towers, it makes me wonder if it's just a red herring, or if we're gonna wind up with something terrible like 4 rings of power.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2012 20:30

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Walliard posted:

I've always wondered whether Andrew would find a way to work Medium into the comic.

Man, I'd dance like a kid on Christmas if he ever finds a way to work in any of those songs. It's still one of my favorite albums.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2012 17:19

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

John posted:

i think we make things more meaningful in our head when they're happening than they really are. like realistically? there were probably a lot of things that went on that day that didn't mean that much.

If only my head was on this straight when I was 14. I absolutely love the fact that John is being this pragmatic about things.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2012 04:11

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Hussie's gonna have a hard time topping this.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2012 01:29

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Nate RFB posted:

There's been so such confirmation. In this panel we see the remnants of Bilious Slick floating around, but there's nothing to say for sure that that's where B2 Earth is.

And why would it? Remember that in the Troll Session, which contained Bilious Slick, they are completely outside of that universe's temporal envelope. There's no need for a linear or causal relationship where it's alive at both points of time (from the B2 Kid's perspective and PM/Jack's perspective). It is perfectly possible for Jane/Jake/Dirk/Roxy's universe to be already destroyed, due to the non-linearity of the whole mess.

We won't know for sure until the it is stated for sure, though.

This makes sense for a variety of reasons. We already know that the B1 universe had cancer, which indirectly affected B1's session. No matter what happened with the scratch, nothing could change the fact that Kanaya and Karkat botched the frog breeding process. Further support is that the B2 session is also screwed, and can't reproduce a new universe on its own. It was never meant to, which again could be the result of a cancerous universe.

I think that Dirk and Roxy will see the same type of countdown as Jane did, but it will apply to the red miles entering Earth's atmosphere. We already saw that the countdown doesn't have to apply to a meteor; the S.S. Batterwitch proved that. Plus, when I look at Rose's line,

Rose posted:

In the new instance of our universe, Earth is just fine.
Sort of.

it seems like she could either be referring to Earth's hostile takeover, or the eventual destruction of the universe. Just my thoughts on it.

I'm curious about the player meteors, however. In both examples we see of kids playing the game, there's a set of kids and a set of ancestors. I wonder if that was the fatal flaw in the first place? Maybe in a true session, all 8/24/however many ecto-players are sent to the right place in time to all play together. I can't think of any significance the ancestor role has played other than a cross between preparing the players indirectly or simply being the also-rans.

Cavatica fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 23, 2012

# ¿ Mar 23, 2012 20:43

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

So I had a few random questions after this flash.

Regarding the million-year history for the consorts, they seemed aware of both Jake's dreamself dying and Jane's revival. So they were still alive while Jane and Dirk's dreamselves were awake and cognizant. I'm also willing to bet that Dirk's planet will have scripture detailing his uprising from [S] Prince of Heart: Rise up.

It has me wonder more and more whether the planets exist or not prior to entry. If they do exist, is there technically anything stopping the dreamselves from wandering around the rest of the medium? Sollux's dreamself flew all the way back to his planet, but that was only after he entered.

If the planets don't exist, then I guess every little detail comes in preloaded from Skaia. But then it makes me wonder if that limits the progress you can make within the game. Can Jane not proceed to her second gate without making sure that the next player is in the game?

I'm also throwing in the guess that Jake is going to die upon entry. By then Jane might have realized some of her Life powers and be able to save him somehow.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2012 14:23

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Well Manicured Man posted:

I think the best way to describe it is that until the player enters, their planet doesn't exist, but once the player has entered, their planet has existed for millions/billions of years (from its perspective). You know, kind of like the fundamentalist Christian idea that God created the world to look billions of years old six thousand years ago to test our faith.

Also I'm pretty sure every depiction of the Incipisphere prior to [S] Jade: Enter had only three planets, with an empty space where LoFaF would be.

I checked before I put the question out there, but the 4th spot was always tactfully hidden behind Skaia if the other three were shown. I honestly could never figure out which way we were meant to think of it other than "Hussie's telling the story." I do like the idea of the planets not existing, but it does make me wonder what would happen if one made it to their second gate too fast. Y'know, other than a doomed timeline.

Bobulus posted:

I kinda want neon to be Dirk. If each Noble has the same reptiles as their equivalent B1 kid, he could have mummified crocodiles in pyramids.

This would be adorable :3:

# ¿ Apr 16, 2012 01:05

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

YF-23 posted:

I just realised, unless B2 Dave can time travel and did so for this, this isn't just adult Dave we're seeing here. If he arrived at the same timeframe as Bro, he should've been 17 when Dirk would have normally arrived. Which would place him at 32 in '11 since Dirk would be 15 years old then. Since this is taking some time after the 2024 election, this is 45+ year old Dave we're looking at here. The ICP and Fiery should also be well past their prime.

Thief of Life powers is how I'm gonna handwave it.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2012 16:21

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Thundarr posted:

Because Vriska is a bad influence? vv

I dunno, it just seems remarkably unlikely to me that a reference specifically to Tavros and Vriska's powers immediately after their viginette would have nothing at all to do with those characters. In this of all comics.

I'm very inclined to agree, even if it's not the hip, popular opinion. We literally just cut from Tavros and Vriska (who are both outside the normal continuum anyway) deciding to gently caress some poo poo up. They're in the dream bubbles, a deal cut between both Meenah and Feferi and the horrorterrors. I feel like that's enough to at least humor the idea that something fishy is going on.

Bell_ posted:

It fits both with her agenda of psychological warfare and the little we picked up from Meenah in the dream bubble. We've seen her being pretty fit in the flash and Scratch's narration, but the figureheads she attracted and the lifestyles they glorified make me wonder if we'll see a fleshy beast of such corpulence we forget all our Fat Vriska jokes.

This would be absolutely hilarious. Besides, with all humans extinct (save for two), she wouldn't have to worry about keeping in shape for any resistance movements.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2012 16:11

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Bobulus posted:

This is honestly the right attitude to take. I doubt Hussie has thought about it that much. He just made them mostly human and then went back later and gave them nonhuman traits later to make them more alien. Trying to justify it is an exercise in frustration.

That said...

It's worse than that, I'm afraid. Recall that we've seen a mother grub (Kanaya's lusus) and it's an entirely different species than the trolls. While it certainly has social reverence, it is a lusus like all the rest.

So it's not so much that the mother grub is the female of the species, but that trolls are a one-gender (in terms of reproduction capacity) species in a symbiotic reproduction relationship with another species, almost like bees and flowers, rather than just bees. (Short version: bees collect nectar from flowers, also get pollen as a side effect. Ranging from flower to flower benefits the bee by getting food and benefits the flower by spreading the pollen to other flowers, aiding reproduction)

Now, as to why they still have visual symptoms of genders? That requires an rear end-pull of one kind or another. One simple explanation would be, earlier in the troll evolutionary cycle, they actually did reproduce alone and gender had some purpose, but that, over millions of years, it became an outdated trait. In real life, we've got weird leftovers of our evolutionary path, like the appendix or the 'gill slits' (pharyngeal pouches) that form on a human embryo and become things like gills in fish but develop into things like the middle ear for us.

You could theorize, with their insect-like biology, dependence on other organisms (lusus) to survive, and the fact that matriorbs can be found inside another species that troll evolved from some form of parasite, like the tick or the leech, that survives by taking resources from other species, and perhaps reproduced by somehow injecting chemicals into the mother grub that produced a matriorb.

Even though I'm nthing the "this doesn't really matter" point of view, we've also seen the egg come out of Kanaya's mother grub. I know that it was for another mother grub, but it did look distinctly troll-like. I do like the idea that the trolls are all basically the same sex; it kind of explains why they don't think about things like gay or straight.

# ¿ May 13, 2012 03:24

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Since it's pretty obvious that Grandma Jade and Grandpa Jake both went to the island to dig up technology from the ruins, and apparently grabbed the 4th wall, I honestly see no reason to believe that there's just simply a transportalizer either in the tower or the frog temple.

# ¿ May 13, 2012 23:26

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

What is this unapologetic smut.

# ¿ May 23, 2012 02:35

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

RuanGacho posted:

It occurs to me it's possible that the joke is on uu in that killing UU's dreamself he has just forced her into "his" dreamself, robbing himself of one and also, triggering Skaia to go dark because it now registers the game as over and will self terminate.

Well, we know from UU's last conversation that Skaia was already growing dark in her dreams. I don't know what this will mean for whatever main body she has or may/may not be sharing, but she might be able to delve into the dream bubbles somehow now.

Also that Skaia is loving creepy.

# ¿ May 26, 2012 22:20

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

So I get the feeling that UU is basically a seemingly benevolent Vriska. She's basically been watching and guiding the B2 kids every step of the way of their journey, even down to making sure the kids communicated. The only trolls that were that involved with guiding the kids was Terezi and Vriska. This is a point in favor to me that uu/UU are going to do something in their session that messes things up, but that something is directly tied to the the advice they gave the kids. So basically just as Vriska "created" Bec Noir, the Dark Skaia session will somehow spawn the origins of Lord English (Cal).

Fun fact: Vriska auto-corrects to crisis.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2012 06:59

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Am I the only one bothered by the fact that uu: Jeer UU starts out with UU talking?

# ¿ Jun 8, 2012 14:49

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Dolash posted:

Oh hey, remember how Jadesprite suggests that dream selves and real selves are actually different selves, and if one of them dies they'll actually be in the afterlife on their own? Is there any evidence yet that god-tiers merge those two souls even if the second one is dead? If not it means an Alpha Rose and Dave whose last memory are being killed by Bec Noir are running around the dream bubbles, not to mention all the surviving trolls' dream selves for certain are there since they aren't god-tier.

We definitely know that dreamselves are there separately, both because of jadesprite, and seeing Nepeta's dreamself in the bubbles. I'm under the impression that a kiss revival will merge a realself to the dreamself, which can't happen if your dreamself died. We also know from Jade that her two selves merged when she went godtier, but she still thought of that part of her as a separate entity.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2012 13:18

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

I am digging the hell out off this album. That part's a given. But right around seven minutes in for A Taste for Adventure, when you get both Showtime and
Dissension? Now I'm just regretting that Hussie already used the song in a flash.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2012 02:23

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

I think Dave at least had the most time, knowledge and opportunity to round up other neighbors. Rose and Jade lived in very isolated areas, but Dave was in an apartment and had 4 hours.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2012 18:07

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Triskelli posted:

"He who fights monsters should take care not to become one."

On the subject of Lil' Cal, take another look at Dirk's version of the puppet. Its eyes are "dead", and uu says as much.

Ok, but...

Dave posted:

TG: oh man i wish lil cal wouldnt look at me like that
TG: with those dead eyes jesus

So I feel like all of this dead talk is another misdirect.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2012 05:17

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Triskelli posted:

Here's a visual example:

B1 Lil' Cal: (Bro's)

B2 Lil' Cal: (Dirk's)

B2 Cal doesn't have the high-definition eyes that his B1 counterpart has. He lacks the mystic jujus that otherwise make him the most important character. The "dead eyes" refer to completely different things and are in different contexts

I think you'll want to look at Dirk's versus Dave's again.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2012 06:18

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

So my take away from this update. Calliope represents Doc Scratch. Loves storytelling, scrapbooking, and trying to "lie through omission." uu somehow takes over their session, her powers or whatever. Since Calliope is a hero of space, she can potentially make things bigger or smaller.

I think the creation of Lord English was actually just uu going god tier, similar to Dave and Rose. The god tier slab may have been hidden inside of Doc Scratch all along. He is a Derse dreamer, after all.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2012 13:18

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Renaissance Robot posted:

Where have I heard the phrase "your wand is out of bullets"? Or is it just reminding me of "your key is out of bullets"?

It's just keys.

Also, I can't unsee that Calliope is just Doc Scratch!

# ¿ Jun 20, 2012 23:38

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Kazy posted:

Yeah, or the Mongooses, that's a good team name! "The Fighting Mongooses."

Obviously Uu is (are?) going to create the Squiddle universe, and then we'll be on Squiddlequest 2012!

It's to bad they aren't gonna create anything, since they[s/he] don't even have prototyping towers.

What's interesting about LE is the constant assertion that paradox space sanctioned his creation and arrival. So everything in the 4 universes had to happen this way regardless. It makes me wonder if LE even has any control over his own destiny either. If Calliope/uu wind up being LE in some way, which all signs seem to be pointing this way, then as players, they are just as subject to causality as the kids and trolls.

I know that it's past trendy to say that Skaia is the real villain, but you've got to wonder why there's a system in place where a player character can obtain enough power to "glitch" paradox space. But it's a crappy glitch because Skaia knew that things would turn out this way the moment Calliope's universe was created.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2012 15:45

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

So during the hiatus, I noticed that at Jake's island, the Derse proxy is engulfed in lava.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2012 07:33

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Bongo Bill posted:

Everyone is a Hero, and it's been confirmed that the class and aspect names are all monosyllabic.

How do people pronounce "seer?"

# ¿ Jul 29, 2012 06:18

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Bongo Bill posted:

Just as it's spelled. "See-er" is just one of two valid pronunciations.

Yeah, ok. I've always heard and pronounced it as "see-er," so I never really put much stock into the monosyllabic titles.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2012 06:25

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Feranon posted:

What if Lord English wins?

Who among us would put it past Hussie to give everybody the biggest middle finger yet and have a Good Guys Lose ending? So much has been made of English's invincibilty, the fact that he is always Already There, and that the kids/trolls inevitably gently caress things up, even when they appear to be succeeding. English was able to instantly vaporize a whole shitload of them, including several god-tiers, and fractured paradox space in the process. He also killed Hussie and presumably that means he's literally running the show now.

There is a tiny part of me that likes the idea that the kids can't quite defeat him. Like, if they had to make a choice between the kids/trolls never existing in order to destroy him, versus locking him into whatever timeloop he's more or less started. Doing the latter seems less satisfying, because there would always be some chance that he could break out again.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2012 22:58

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Bongo Bill posted:

Time is red, space is green, and Skaia is blue. Lil Cal's eyes are blue and are the same shape as Calliope's green eyes and Caliborn's red ones. None of these eyes have ever (to my memory) been depicted in a panel involving any of the many established sun motifs, which makes them different from nearly every other set of eyes in the comic (except of course Lord English's, which are hypnotic cue balls).

What do you mean in this instance? Do you mean like how the Light symbol was seen in both Rose and Vriska's eyes, or just seen in conjunction period?

# ¿ Jul 31, 2012 02:46

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

I think my ears became the happiest they've ever been. Also, let's not forget he did Homestuck Anthem, my personal favorite.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2012 16:20

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

I want Overture to be the Act 6 Act 4 flash.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2012 19:08

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Walliard posted:

Whatever happened to killing him off becoming a semi-annual pastime? It's been far too long.

I dunno, I kinda think that Beta-John's Ghost death counts (barely).

# ¿ Sep 4, 2012 16:26

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Fister Roboto posted:

Really. I'm going to start magically liking Kanaya and the fact that Hussie's ensured we won't get anything resembling a John/Rose end?

Great, one more boring-rear end gay romance. Tons of potential lost and for what? Because Hussie didn't feel like taking any chances. That's for the two designated 'weird' kids in the comic, huh? Can't have the main characters interested in each other, despite all the little hints (and sometimes not so little ones) dropped all over the place. Must make them gay, boring, and ensure they wind up with the worst characters in the comic.

Yeah, tell me what there is to look forward to with this couple, hoss. You seem to be all for it. Kanaya's the most boring lead in any romance since Chiba Mamoru from Sailormoon. There's not a single interesting (or redeeming) thing about her and yet it's looking increasingly like Rose's going to end up with her.

Because gay people, that's why. God forbid HS take a chance with anything. Nope, must conform to the status quo and leave that straight poo poo to the weirdo characters, right?

Yeah, no. gently caress you and gently caress Hussie. I guess it's nice he made a 'please stop reading my webcomic, it's becoming like any other teen romance strip' arc though. Real considerate-like. Always good to see straightforward, boring fuckin' romance blooming. And at the end, they'll have a kid, Rose'll die, and Kanaya'll be there to talk about the kid's adventures in the medium or some other stereotypically generic thing. Because the kids must be like the parents, always and forever.

This takes me back.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2012 20:37

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

This game is pretty great, and I really like the music!

# ¿ Nov 1, 2012 18:22

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

If I were to rank my favorite trolls based on this game alone, Karkat, Kanaya and Aradia would win hands down. And I like sober creepy Gamzee now more than ever. :ohdear:

# ¿ Nov 2, 2012 15:36

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Wow, Unite GRLBROcrinization is oddly good.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2012 18:28

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Didn't UU say that most of the session was gonna be blacked out? That's the real reason why this is such a short Act.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2012 15:37

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

SexyBrianPuppet posted:

The Alpha/Beta way of describing the two groups is just way too loving confusing. Not only are they not used consistently (trolls go Alpha --> Beta, humans go Beta --> Alpha) but the same terminology is already used to describe the main and doomed timelines. So "Alpha Karkat" could refer to the Karkat of the alpha timeline who's still alive, or Kankri's ancestor from before the scratch (AKA: the Alpha universe.) And that dead god-teir Karkat is a "Beta Karkat" because he's from a beta timeline, but Alpha timeline Karkat is also a Beta Karkat because his group of friends are known as the "Beta trolls."

But at the same time, it's kind of the beauty of it. Calling the B2 kids Alpha also implies that they are the actual Alpha timeline. The Beta kids have to travel to them and everything in order to set things right.

But seriously I agree it's confusing as all hell and B1/B2 works out well.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2012 20:15

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Whoever keeps saying that Gamzee can only die in the most hilarious way possible is dead wrong. I cracked up every single time Caliborn gunned him down. :colbert:

# ¿ Nov 22, 2012 14:07

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 18:50

Cavatica: Nov 2, 2010

Nate RFB posted:

Oh god this thing's typing quirk is going to be insufferable.

Man I hope not. Sollux was getting the hang of talking like a half-do0med person last we saw him, so I'm hoping against hope that it's just slightly tolerable. They both used fish puns too, though.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2012 14:28

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > MSPaint Adventures - Homestuck Edition, the Final Acts

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