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Yeah, I was thinking psycho Feferi for the longest time before this, raised by the Batterwitch instead, but I guess she could have had a sister too; didn't think on that. Also, wasn't expecting Roxy to be the one getting shafted first. Not gonna lie, I thought that would be Jane or Rose. Go figure.
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Feb 29, 2012 10:04
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Part of this whole thing rubs me the wrong way; Aranea here is basically telling us that these characters don't matter in the grand scheme. In the scope of a story, that is certainly true. However in their world and their circumstances, they matter as individuals, as people and friends. Those who do make an impact-trolls and humans alike-are not remembered save as large part of a metaphorical circulatory system that keeps things flowing, and those that do nothing aren't even known for that. I think back to Tavros and Nepeta and Feferi and I don't see them as wastes of space or cheap shock value. They mattered.  Is Hussie trying to get himself out of killing so many, in that their death is somehow what was supposed to happen? That good people are meant to only serve as the point towards death-especially John despite him still surviving-in this game and that others who are willing to get the job done despite the costs and the actions they make are better? After all, you still have a unrepentant killer clown as part of the main party and who only serves to stilt their progress. I love this story, but this just does not settle with me. Death should have meaning, and so should those who have died for this one chance to go through. Psycho Lawnmower fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 21:18
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Gabriel Pope posted:She's saying exactly the opposite. Literally all of creation depends on the players' sacrifices. You don't get much more meaningful than that! First, how does Tavros, Equius, Nepeta and Feferi fit into that, hmm? What did they do that allowed for all of this? Those who died from their own hands because those choices 'mattered' somehow? They were killed by Eridan, Gamzee or Jack. ...And are you seriously trying to tell me that John would have, on his own inclination, prototyped Bec? Or that Rose would have gone to Scratch for help without being introduced? Both of those weren't the best decisions to make, and we all know that. Hell, John went to prototype that doll just to weaken Jack. Rose knew going to Scratch was a bad idea. Psycho Lawnmower fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Mar 27, 2012 |
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Mar 27, 2012 22:06
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Alright. What about the Green Sun? Its very existence is what allows the enemies of the players to exist as they do. The con that Scratch devised that the entire game is based around is that these choices-made by the players or not-would ultimately serve to create that power. So if we're being technical, the creation of the enemies is both of no fault of their own, and yet it is their fault. If everything is to exist the way it is supposed to into the Beta Timeline, no one person or group-Trolls or Humans-can be held accountable. You know, except for Gamzee who created Lil'Cal in the first place. Still waiting for them both to get their comeuppance.
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Mar 27, 2012 22:27
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TheDemon posted:I think that's more wordy than Aranea's explanation. Now, this all makes lovely sense, I admit this. However, this also makes me question Hussie's own credentials in his story. It feels to me like he's trying to find a loophole for making character death for shock value, a big no-no in a lot of work. Even a character death used to improve another character's storyline is generally considered wrong, also known as fridging.
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Mar 28, 2012 18:34
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Yeah, but as said earlier by goons on this same thread, their character and their death influenced every character present on some level and changed their lives. With their death effecting the character, it advanced their plot based on the carcass of the fallen. This is especially true of Karkat and Terezi. And we did have interest in Feferi and the others and they were built up well. Then they were killed to show shock towards their death and show Eridan and Jack as terrible people.
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Mar 28, 2012 19:54
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King of Solomon posted:So, are you just mad at Hussie for killing your favorite characters or something? No, it's not the characters themselves that piss me off about his writing or that I'm pissed that characters are dead; people die in a lot of stories and for lots of different reasons. I'm accepting of that. What I'm annoyed to accept is how Hussie views death and uses it to tell his narrative. Back in Problem Sleuth, death was used as a device to portray development or dramatic change from one character to the rest of the series as a whole. the third Ace Dick died in the first battle with Mobster Kingpin, but what he did not only effected the defeat of that character, but also changed the game itself into his second form. When death is used in narrative, it should have individual weight for the narrative and somehow influence the plot as a whole. When you kill someone important, that death should have some meaning for them and the story at large, not just as a foil for others. When Tavros died, what had been accomplished from that death and how did it change everyone? It really didn't. He didn't accomplish anything, and a lot of the people didn't like him because he seemed useless. That doesn't mean you just kill them off because they are unpopular. Many trolls were killed-when the audience had enough time to appreciate them as characters-when they were done and could have added more to the plot, in an attempt to be rid of the back half when more could have been made of it. Death is a really touchy thing in stories, and should be wielded with a light touch, not with the bludgeon Hussie tends to regard. Fister Roboto: That kind of narrative convention is generally known as Fridging, or Stuffed In The Fridge. It refers to using another character's death to expand the development of another character by turning said dead character into a plot device. While generally used for female characters in comics-made famous by Kyle Raynor's girlfriend, it can apply to males as well. It is not well-received. And sure, Demon. I agree with that, but I also see that things are taking a turn towards some shaky territory, and I figured some exposure might be warranted. Psycho Lawnmower fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Mar 28, 2012 |
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Mar 28, 2012 22:55
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Cabbit posted:Yeah, no, the fridge thing is a legitimate awful thing that happens in fiction and has been around for a long time. Just because TVTropes says the sky is blue doesn't mean it's neon turquoise. Actual, legitimate writers talk about it and everything. Yeah, kinda my fault for placing the wrong link. My apologies there, everybody. Since, you know, apparently TVTropes is such a terrible place.  You want facts? Cry For Justice. another story that used this. It killed a little girl for shock value and then was used to expand her own father's storyline in later books. Early Black Canary books, where her kidnapping and resident assault was used to expand Green Arrow's character and not her own. Just a fair start. But I agree mainly with Ze Pollock; the deaths were pointless and stupid. When you have characters, do something with them or find meaning somewhere with what you made. If you can't find anything, then make them supporting and say so, or kill them by their actions effecting the plot. But in Tavros' case, I didn't see it in that perspective or means. That does help.
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Mar 29, 2012 00:12
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Ammat The Ankh posted:I hope he turns out to be the troll equivalent of a Mormon. What, with the multitude of corpses he took as his multiple wives/husbands?
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Mar 29, 2012 06:02
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:Now isn't this just... fantastic... Yes, that was actually quite good, I have to give him credit for realizing that and using the fridge. I completely forgot about Sprite Revival. And luckily, there will be no empowered Imps with Luck powers and communal abilities because this happened after she entered the Medium already. However, Gamzee is still a murderer that killed his other friends. He never needed to kill, and that will still haunt my perception of him.
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Apr 18, 2012 08:10
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Oh, Gamzee, you'd be a real trooper if you'd come down and make all this more fun. Not that I begrudge the space lesbian any favors, but that we need something interesting after the breach of trust Rose just pulled, drunk or no. Or even better: a) Rose wakes up from a drunken stupor, or b) Karkat wakes up from watching a doomed timeline event in a dreambubble.  Though I will give that parody post one point; it does feel like Hussie is pandering to the base with this recent dramatic canon pairing. Thought there was something there, but now I'm free from insane obligations about romance which may have no bearing on anything! Thanks, Hussie! Edit: Fair enough. Doesn't make it any less true, but reactions aren't a bad thing here. After all, how many people have done it here before, hmm? Psycho Lawnmower fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Oct 26, 2012 |
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Oct 26, 2012 21:18
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| # ¿ Jun 3, 2024 02:25 |
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I should hope so, Bongo. Jade has done such a great deal already in shaping the chance of creating a new universe for everyone that it would be a shame for her to not do anything through these years. That being said, it seems that she's taking the experience of eternity and unlimited power quite well through her understanding of the science of being a First Guardian. When you're part superdog, you tend to lose context about one's own feelings when its only your ex, your brother, your combined grandma and ones minions over and over. Not that you aren't loyal, simply used to the rote, yanno? John, on the other hand, doesn't have the contemplation of eternity to ease his interest. He's been cooped up with nothing to do save sleep, watch his movies and cruddy MMOs, and eat cake. Its bad enough that John doesn't like the pastry, but that he's grown up slightly-in combat skill as well as maturity-seems to say that his reactions right now must be the stuff of legend on this battleship since he's slowly losing his mind. That battle with Jack did him some real good.
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Oct 26, 2012 21:53
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