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For real the difference between 0 and 1-2 is tremendous. Get some kind of job somewhat related to what you want to do, swallow it for a while then move to greener pastures.
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Aug 23, 2013 17:25
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I worked a fun but underpaying and dead end entry level test engineer job for 22 months our of school, got hired in a respectable company as a level 2 engineer, and am on track to get promoted to Sr. Level engineer (typically 4 yr minimum exp.) After barely 34 months out of school so take that $50k job and consider kicking rear end for a year or two. The right people will notice and it will pay off
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Aug 23, 2013 19:35
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Crazyweasel posted:I worked a fun but underpaying and dead end entry level test engineer job for 22 months our of school, got hired in a respectable company as a level 2 engineer, and am on track to get promoted to Sr. Level engineer (typically 4 yr minimum exp.) After barely 34 months out of school so take that $50k job and consider kicking rear end for a year or two. The right people will notice and it will pay off That is the way to do it if you don't get a lucky break
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Aug 23, 2013 22:16
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My first post-grad interview was this past Thursday afternoon and went really well. That night I sent out my thank you email and sat around thinking I did everything right. Around 2 hours ago (Saturday 2 AM) I noticed that I missed a letter in the interviewers email address, most likely sending it to another person in the company. In my panic, I resent it to the correct email however I noticed afterward that I used a different personal email address than the one I listed on my resume.
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Aug 24, 2013 08:58
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antavila posted:My first post-grad interview was this past Thursday afternoon and went really well. That night I sent out my thank you email and sat around thinking I did everything right. Around 2 hours ago (Saturday 2 AM) I noticed that I missed a letter in the interviewers email address, most likely sending it to another person in the company. In my panic, I resent it to the correct email however I noticed afterward that I used a different personal email address than the one I listed on my resume. Unless the "different personal email address" was something like SEXLOVER69_x666x@HOTMAIL.COM, you're probably fine. If you're worried that the interviewer won't know who the e-mail is from since it's coming from a different address, well, he'll know if the interview went as well as you say it did. I know it's really easy to obsess over minor details like this when job hunting, but 99.99% of the time, that's not going to be the difference between landing a job and staying unemployed. That interviewer is an actual dude who probably has a half-dozen e-mail accounts, just like everyone else. He won't see it as a dealbreaker or whatever. "Well, golly, this man is perfect for the job! Solid resume, enthusiastic and knowledgeable about the company, and we really 'clicked' in the interview! Ah, I see I've received an e-mail from him, fantastic! But... wait... oh, jesus... that's not the e-mail address he provided on his resume!!! That's it, he's off the list!"
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Aug 24, 2013 14:49
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surf rock posted:Unless the "different personal email address" was something like SEXLOVER69_x666x@HOTMAIL.COM, you're probably fine Yeah, I know I'm probably being pretty rough on myself, it's just hard to accept that fact that, after killing the interview, I of course mess up in the smallest ways possible and it makes me feel paranoid. And the email address wasn't as bad as that, it was the difference between using the correct myname@mynamedomain.com vs. myname@gmail.com since I forgot to click the button in Gmail to switch accounts. I just hate messing up.
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Aug 24, 2013 20:16
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antavila posted:Yeah, I know I'm probably being pretty rough on myself, it's just hard to accept that fact that, after killing the interview, I of course mess up in the smallest ways possible and it makes me feel paranoid. I wouldn't see that as a real mess up, and the fact that you noticed and care so much about detail says good things about you.
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Aug 24, 2013 20:18
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I'm in a weird spot. I'll go ahead and apply, but I don't know if I actually want this job from a long-term plan perspective. I'm looking at an entry-level "Engineering Specialist I" working for local government. There are two issues: 1. The salary is $34,000, and the level II position in the same county only makes 38-47k. I understand taking a poo poo job for experience, but my fiance also just took a huge pay cut (started graduate school) so that would hurt. 2. It wouldn't be any design work, so I wouldn't be building skills that other engineering firms would value. I would work in regulation, which appeals to me, but I don't want to get deep into a subset of industry that isn't financially satisfying (I'm used to making much more as a teacher) Like I said, I'm going to apply, and if I get an interview I'll ask what career advancement opportunities are likely a few years down the line.
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Aug 24, 2013 21:45
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BrianBoitano posted:I'm in a weird spot. I'll go ahead and apply, but I don't know if I actually want this job from a long-term plan perspective. Do you have other options that can offer better experience/ pay? Initial Salary is important, you need to have enough to live on, but getting on a track and getting that initial experience is even more critical. Try and figure out the path this job will take (the next job you would move to) and see if you are happy with the position(s) you could reasonably achieve down the road a few years with this on your resume. Moving up the ladder takes some planning
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Aug 24, 2013 22:24
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BrianBoitano posted:I'm in a weird spot. I'll go ahead and apply, but I don't know if I actually want this job from a long-term plan perspective. Don't worry about experience. Where I live, there's a shortage of senior engineers in the local government. They tend to get hired away at the 4-8 year point to go work for building contractors. The reasoning is that the contractors need people who understand the civil codes and have connections in the government. Those people go from making 60k to $120k+ overnight. To all prospective engineers out there: there is no magic first job. Just find any job with the word engineer in the title (and not the word technician) and get 4 years of experience. Then go find the job you really want.
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Aug 25, 2013 20:21
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swenblack posted:Don't worry about experience. Where I live, there's a shortage of senior engineers in the local government. They tend to get hired away at the 4-8 year point to go work for building contractors. The reasoning is that the contractors need people who understand the civil codes and have connections in the government. Those people go from making 60k to $120k+ overnight. thanks! I never thought of that. Well, like I said, I applied regardless and my cover letter was strong, so here's hoping to catch a glimpse of the elusive interview beast soon.
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Aug 25, 2013 21:04
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After having recently left a government job because of the Canadian Government's insistence on contract bouncing, I am finding the most difficult part of job searching is actually finding jobs. When I do an online search I am genuinely at a loss of what to put in the fields. If I am looking for a job in communications do I just write communications? I hate to think I am missing out on career opportunities because I am not searching with the correct terms. I was having success with searching for businesses directly and going to their HR or Careers page, but I live in a relatively small area and need to cover broader scopes. What do you guys typically use when searching for jobs? Do you key it down to specific roles or responsibilities in a job, search for a job title, or just the field (i.e "Marketing").
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Aug 26, 2013 16:07
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ToasterofDoom posted:After having recently left a government job because of the Canadian Government's insistence on contract bouncing, I am finding the most difficult part of job searching is actually finding jobs. When I do an online search I am genuinely at a loss of what to put in the fields. If I am looking for a job in communications do I just write communications? I hate to think I am missing out on career opportunities because I am not searching with the correct terms. I was having success with searching for businesses directly and going to their HR or Careers page, but I live in a relatively small area and need to cover broader scopes. What do you guys typically use when searching for jobs? Do you key it down to specific roles or responsibilities in a job, search for a job title, or just the field (i.e "Marketing"). I've been dealing with this problem by just having about 30 emails a day coming in from recruiters/websites sending me the newest job postings with whatever buzzwords I asked for (these range from Jr. Mechanical Engineer, Mechanical Engineer, Engineering, Engineer, BSME, etc.). It's a little annoying, but I usually find 1 or 2 positions out of the 100s I get sent. It may take a few minutes to sort through, but it sure beats the hell out of missing something that you could have applied for, but missed on your first look.
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Aug 26, 2013 20:06
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I accepted a new job, agreed to stay there for 18 months (or I have to pay back my beautiful signing bonus).. and within a week, my boss's boss and the recruiter who was trying to find me other (unrelated) jobs are asking if I have friends looking for a position. I must have done something right! (No idea what.)
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Sep 6, 2013 02:20
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meanieface posted:I accepted a new job, agreed to stay there for 18 months (or I have to pay back my beautiful signing bonus).. and within a week, my boss's boss and the recruiter who was trying to find me other (unrelated) jobs are asking if I have friends looking for a position. What kind of position(s) and where?
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Sep 6, 2013 02:58
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meanieface posted:I accepted a new job, agreed to stay there for 18 months (or I have to pay back my beautiful signing bonus).. and within a week, my boss's boss and the recruiter who was trying to find me other (unrelated) jobs are asking if I have friends looking for a position. Good to be in a growing company ! Perhaps you could share the open positions in this thread and help someone SA member out. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3052395
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Sep 6, 2013 14:28
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YF19pilot posted:What kind of position(s) and where? IT, in Oklahoma. To clarify, the recruiter is *not* in my company. I have no idea what kind of jobs he's wanting to fill, other than that he specifically wants programmers with a MIS or Comp Sci degree.
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Sep 7, 2013 15:40
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Well poo poo, not sure what to think of this, I received an offer for a job at a company that is in my field (finance) with decent pay for the area. I originally applied and was very enthusiastic about working for the company, but as time wore on and I learned more about the role, customer service rep in a call center, my gut started to tell me to stay away because it seemed like a dead end. My only piece of concrete evidence for this was 'my contact' who has been working the job for 3-4 years now. Originally I thought he was a low-achiever and if I boot-strapped I could maybe get out of the call center in a year-ish. Then I learned he has been in the top 10% in their metrics for some-time now. Sooo I decided to turn down the offer and boom I'm back to square one. Now, however, I get the added bonus of the little voice in the back of my head that says "fool, you could have made X$ today, had a social life, and it wasn't the greatest job, but its a stepping-stone amirite??  now your stuck in your parent's house you pasty piece of poopy"At this point, I know it's a sunk cost anyway but part of me wishes I had taken the job just to get this whole frustrating process over with.
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Sep 8, 2013 05:57
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Shats Basoon posted:Well poo poo, not sure what to think of this, Should you have taken that job? Eh, probably. Is there literally any benefit to be had from sitting around and wondering about "what if?" Nope. You've learned your lesson from it, now stop wasting your time worrying about it.
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Sep 8, 2013 13:37
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Shats Basoon posted:At this point, I know it's a sunk cost anyway but part of me wishes I had taken the job just to get this whole frustrating process over with. I'm in the same boat. A teaching gig offered me $13k less than I used to make (a big difference when you don't make much to begin with) with a potential to make up the difference if I stuck around for, I dunno, 15 years best case? You got some good interview experience, so be glad for that and keep at it!
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Sep 8, 2013 19:33
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Shats Basoon posted:
I was always told you should take the job and then just continue looking. I've always been told (and so far have found somewhat true) that it is much easier to find a job while you have a job. However getting a job and then immediately looking has it's own hurdles (people will question your loyalty). It doesn't do you any good to second guess your decision though. Good luck. EDIT: I personally would almost never turn down a job if I didn't have a job. It's the reason I worked at Burger King for 6 months in college before landing my cushy "Student Assistant - IT - Media Labs" job at the college I was attending.
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Sep 13, 2013 22:26
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So it's been a year now since I've graduated. I took a catering job just to pay the bills until I found something I could build a career off of. I've applied to different jobs on and off over the year, but nothing really has panned out. Is there any companies that hirer people with just College Degrees and no relevant experience? I have 6 years in restaurants/delivery but nothing else really. I did apply to Enterprise because I know they recruit college graduates, but I didn't get the job after the second interview. I know I'd hate sales anyway. Just looking for some advice because I figure there's been people in my same position before. I'm kind of at a loss as where to look besides craigslist/monster. My degree's in History.
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Sep 24, 2013 23:38
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I just got my first job offer, for $32k, which I feel is kind of low (Im in Seattle). They made the offer on the phone and were kind of insistent that I give them a decision ASAP, but I managed to buy at least a day by saying I had another interview tomorrow, which is true. How do I decide if I should take it or not? On the one hand, I'm kind of tempted because it's my first job offer out of college and I've been looking for a while, but on the other hand, it does seem low.
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Sep 25, 2013 17:44
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Ron Don Volante posted:I just got my first job offer, for $32k, which I feel is kind of low (Im in Seattle). They made the offer on the phone and were kind of insistent that I give them a decision ASAP, but I managed to buy at least a day by saying I had another interview. How do I decide if I should take it or not? On the one hand, I'm kind of tempted because it's my first job offer out of college and I've been looking for a while, but on the other hand, it does seem low. $32k is criminally low for say, software in Seattle, but as a bus boy or a waiter, maybe not. Without the context of what the job is, how can we hope to answer this?
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Sep 25, 2013 17:46
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Chasiubao posted:$32k is criminally low for say, software in Seattle, but as a bus boy or a waiter, maybe not. Without the context of what the job is, how can we hope to answer this? Sorry, forgot to mention it's for SEO/digital marketing.
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Sep 25, 2013 17:57
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$32k is a very lowball offer for a professional office job in Seattle/Bellevue/Redmond, even if only vaguely technical. I worked at a (kind of lovely) digital marketing company out of college in Seattle a few years ago and I made $48k there. Even the lowest men on the totem pole that were basically just HTML janitors made more than $32k. $32k is roughly the equivalent of $15/hr if you assume zero overtime (a big assumption), which is a kind of lovely income to live on in Seattle given the cost of living. That's what I made as an intern in 2008-2009 (minus benefits). I mean, it's better than no job of course, but still. Also if they're being that pushy about it I bet they know they are lowballing and want to pressure you to accept before you have time to think about it and realize it's a well-below-market offer. That's something lovely companies do. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Sep 25, 2013 |
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Sep 25, 2013 18:22
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You could accept it and continue interviewing. Since the company sounds scummy I wouldn't feel bad about that.
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Sep 25, 2013 19:15
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Get the offer in writing and counter. Worse they do is say no to the counter and you can except to low ball. Try to find out what market value is for the job in that area of the country.
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Sep 25, 2013 22:40
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That's a low offer, but I also know plenty of people in DC/NYC (in other words, areas with extremely high costs of living) who accepted similar (if slightly higher, more like 35-38k) offers for their first jobs even though they were professional office jobs, just because they couldn't find anything better and they went into fields that had lots of applicants competing for few jobs. I'd look on Glassdoor for that company and similar companies in the area, and try to figure out if you can do better, and if so, how much better. Then make a counter offer. I don't think you should accept it without negotiating, but for your first job, maybe it's worth it even if the salary isn't amazing. You don't have to stay there forever. You shouldn't ever feel pressured to immediately accept an offer over the phone, though. That's unacceptable.
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Sep 25, 2013 22:52
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They just emailed me the offer after our quick phone chat. No mention of benefits, though I think they did mention something about them in the very first phone screener interview a few days ago. I did a little bit of looking on Glassdoor and Indeed and it seems like similar positions (though it's hard to tell if they're entry-level) in Seattle are more in the 40+ range. Let's say I'm willing to take 36k—how do I then negotiate? Reply to the email and mention my salary research with a counter-offer of 40k?
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Sep 26, 2013 00:47
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It's worth clarifying benefits, but yeah I think a counteroffer of 38-40k is reasonable. You might not get 40k, but I think a reasonable company would be willing to move somewhat on 32k. I think salary research is the wrong tactic to take. Focus on yourself and why you're worth it. Yes, you're entry level, but you still want to create the impression that you are worth 40k.
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Sep 26, 2013 00:52
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low salaries tend to stick with people, thats a proven number, but my personal theory (not proven) is because they take that and accept percentages their whole career without breaking the cycle. I personally took a below market wage, because of the huge gap in zero experience versus any at all, then I figured out what the average was for my area. After two years, I accepted an offer that hit that standard number plus a better work environment and advancement opportunities. Now, sure ideal scenario is you enter the job market at a fair salary but as long as you're cognizant of the difference, you can make it up fairly quickly and its far easier to do that rather than hold out for a better job when you're entry level and not working/ under employed.
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Sep 26, 2013 03:51
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Xguard86 posted:low salaries tend to stick with people, thats a proven number, but my personal theory (not proven) is because they take that and accept percentages their whole career without breaking the cycle. If you are not willing to change jobs you will rarely get a good bump in salary. First 3 years out of school I got 3% a year. Changed jobs and got a 16% bump at a better place then got an 8% the year after. I would be making $25k less at my old job. My wife just got a 25% bump (plus bonus opportunity) at a better work environment. She was scheduled for 2% raise at her old job. I agree take the job to get the experience and then be aware of what you are worth and go find something else (if you like working where you are see if they will match the offer)
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Sep 26, 2013 04:02
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While we're on the subject, how much does taking a lower wage early in your career screw up your earnings as you move up the ladder? I'm starting my first post-grad school job tomorrow in a QC lab, making $18/hr plus overtime. It's a 2-3 month contract that will probably offer me a permanent spot if I do well, but I don't know if I'll get a better pay rate if I join permanently. Extrapolating that number puts me just under $40k a year, where a recruiter I spoke to about a month ago told me that with a MS in Chemistry I could be making $50k a year no problem, but she very well could have been trying to butter me up. Will a low salary now set me back in future salary/raise negotiations, or am I trying to scry too far into the future?
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Sep 26, 2013 05:04
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km2 posted:I wonder if I should also crosspost this in the ‘Tell me about being an Engineer!’ thread but this post is a bit more appropriate for this thread. Send me your resume at daymanahha@gmail.com if you like. It would be for a junior level electrical engineer position but I'm pretty sure we'd pay out more than $50k along with health and all that good stuff. Its aerospace so you can probably guess where we're located. Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if you already applied for the position but a recommendation wouldn't hurt.
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Sep 26, 2013 05:55
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C-Euro posted:While we're on the subject, how much does taking a lower wage early in your career screw up your earnings as you move up the ladder? I'm starting my first post-grad school job tomorrow in a QC lab, making $18/hr plus overtime. It's a 2-3 month contract that will probably offer me a permanent spot if I do well, but I don't know if I'll get a better pay rate if I join permanently. Extrapolating that number puts me just under $40k a year, where a recruiter I spoke to about a month ago told me that with a MS in Chemistry I could be making $50k a year no problem, but she very well could have been trying to butter me up. Will a low salary now set me back in future salary/raise negotiations, or am I trying to scry too far into the future? It does if you're still working for the same organization. When you find a new job you can pretend you were making slightly above market and get a massive raise if you interview well.
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Sep 26, 2013 06:43
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There is definitely a salary-anchoring effect that happens based on your first couple of years in the labor market. It's not an unbreakable effect, but you will almost assuredly have to move companies a couple of times to quickly ramp up your salary. If you take a below-market salary at a company, you're 99% likely to be stuck with a below-market salary until you leave that company. Like was said, the difference between zero years experience and 2 years experience is huge when it comes to negotiating power. It isn't the end of the world to take a below-market salary when you have no experience, as long as you fully intend to get as much valuable experience as possible and find a new job within 1-3 years and play hardball on salary negotiations. It also helps that the best time to get a new job is when you already have a job. In 3-4 years out of university I more than doubled my salary by changing jobs twice, and in addition to more money the work culture and quality of life also improved. If I stayed at the same place I started I would have been begging for 3% annually and barely cresting 50k - and working at a much worse company doing far less interesting things to boot. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Sep 26, 2013 |
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Sep 26, 2013 18:27
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I find myself applying for jobs that are mostly Entry-Level at this point in my 'career'. I have a M.S. in molecular biology and worked for 2 years as a junior scientist at a major university, doing really high-profile research. However, we had our first child around my 2-year employment mark. I wasn't making enough money to justify paying for daycare. It was in 2010, when the job market was still terrible, my institution had pay/hiring freezes, and I had to take a pay-cut in the form of mandatory furloughs (2 days per year). I had the opportunity to work with a friend who runs a small window cleaning company. This position paid much better than working at the university, though much more seasonal employment. It worked out such that I was making significantly more money by a combination window cleaning and saving money on daycare by watching our child at home. We now have 2 children, and daycare costs remain as expensive as ever. However, our oldest child needs to get into preschool, being 3+ years old now. So, I find myself applying for more/less entry level jobs. I have sent out dozens upon dozens of resumes, and rarely hear back from anyone. I've interviewed a half dozen times for technical sales positions, but that isn't really what I want to do. I want to get back into research, in particular clinical research, as that's where one can earn a lot of money. I met with a recruiter today and he is going to do what he can to land me a ~3-6 month contract position, to get some new experience on my resume. Other than working with a recruiter, I really don't know what else I can do to make myself more appealing to potential employers. It's been 3 years since I've done any 'science', and it's clearly hurting my job search. I am volunteering at my county library doing computer tutoring, but that isn't directly helping my cause. I suppose I could contact local community colleges or high schools to inquire about volunteering with the science department, but I don't want to do that unless it would absolutely help me to get a job. Any suggestions as to what can make myself/my resume more appealing?
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Sep 26, 2013 21:33
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Guinness posted:In 3-4 years out of university I more than doubled my salary by changing jobs twice, and in addition to more money the work culture and quality of life also improved. If I stayed at the same place I started I would have been begging for 3% annually and barely cresting 50k - and working at a much worse company doing far less interesting things to boot. To add a bit more, this is a tough rut people get into. I am at a company I like, and make pretty decent $ for where I am now, but I know salary growth probably won't coincide with skill/responsibility growth. As one of my older colleagues said "How do you justify to management giving someone a 20% raise?" when that is what they could get in the open market.
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Sep 27, 2013 05:14
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on the flipside, I am realizing that you have to stay somewhere for a while to get the chance at expanding your knowledge and skills. So maybe medium-short term you can jump up in pay, but you have to balance that with remaining in place, getting a good rep, and possibly making larger strides longterm.
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Sep 27, 2013 22:38
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