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PJOmega posted:Anyone want 7th Sea or Battletech cards? Battletech? gently caress yea!
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Feb 1, 2017 07:50
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Gynovore posted:I picked up L5R a year after it came out, and dang it was fun. It was the first CCG that was really optimized for multiplayer games. I haven't really seen any cards since 2005. I loved playing this game with people, I luckily had 2 other nerds that played with me pretty regularly.
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Feb 1, 2017 18:55
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So, turns out there's still a decent, if niche, community of people who play the LotR TCG... but almost all of them try to play with the newer sets included. You know, the terrible, overpowered ones that were rushed out in a desperate attempt to keep the game's existing player base spending money after RotK came out? The last set printed was Mount Doom, and anybody who says otherwise is a charlatan. 
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Feb 1, 2017 19:47
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PMush Perfect posted:So, turns out there's still a decent, if niche, community of people who play the LotR TCG... but almost all of them try to play with the newer sets included. You know, the terrible, overpowered ones that were rushed out in a desperate attempt to keep the game's existing player base spending money after RotK came out? No one around here plays it, or if they do they aren't advertising. Plus it would be insanely expensive to get back into the game going by Ebay prices. Also, most people I talk to have never heard of L5R. I am close to Denver and I am sure there are 2 or 3 other people out there still playing but none of the comic/game stores even carry it anymore.
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Feb 1, 2017 19:58
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Flaggy posted:No one around here plays it, or if they do they aren't advertising. Plus it would be insanely expensive to get back into the game going by Ebay prices. Also, most people I talk to have never heard of L5R. I am close to Denver and I am sure there are 2 or 3 other people out there still playing but none of the comic/game stores even carry it anymore. Don't they currently use a system that's kinda-sorta like MtG's Standard?
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Feb 1, 2017 22:45
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Gynovore posted:Don't they currently use a system that's kinda-sorta like MtG's Standard? I have no idea, haven't played in years and no idea what MTG Standard is. Don't play Magic.
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Feb 2, 2017 00:47
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Flaggy posted:I have no idea, haven't played in years and no idea what MTG Standard is. Don't play Magic.
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Feb 2, 2017 07:48
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PMush Perfect posted:A rotating list of what cards are legal, usually, say, the three most recent sets. It lets new players play competitively for cheaper, while also getting people to keep buying packs. Genius. I wonder at this point in time could another CCG come along and knock magic out of first place?
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Feb 2, 2017 15:47
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Flaggy posted:Genius. I wonder at this point in time could another CCG come along and knock magic out of first place? Absolutely not. It's an insane juggernaut.
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Feb 2, 2017 16:03
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Flaggy posted:Genius. I wonder at this point in time could another CCG come along and knock magic out of first place? A dude posted:Absolutely not. It's an insane juggernaut. I have to agree. Despite it's flaws, Magic is unbelievable huge and has its hooks into 99% of the world's nerds. Plus, you know, there's that copyright thing.
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Feb 2, 2017 19:19
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Surely you mean patent thing.
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Feb 2, 2017 19:28
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I think what really gives magic a leg up on the rest of the CCGs out there is the Pro Tour, being able to win a huge cash prize is a big deal. I don't believe any other CCG actually offers cash prizes as major events, mostly because they also target kids. Cash prizes are a huge draw though, look at Magic's real competition, Hearthstone, and you see more cash prizes. Though Wizards and Blizzard both are own by HUGE corporations that can fund those crazy jackpots. I think FFG having the star wars license has potential, if they can convince Disney to dump a ton of cash towards Destiny, or one of their non CCG star wars games.
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Feb 2, 2017 19:39
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A dude posted:Surely you mean patent thing. Oops yeah, patent. Elblanco posted:I think what really gives magic a leg up on the rest of the CCGs out there is the Pro Tour, being able to win a huge cash prize is a big deal. I don't believe any other CCG actually offers cash prizes as major events, mostly because they also target kids. Cash prizes are a huge draw though, look at Magic's real competition, Hearthstone, and you see more cash prizes. Though Wizards and Blizzard both are own by HUGE corporations that can fund those crazy jackpots. I think FFG having the star wars license has potential, if they can convince Disney to dump a ton of cash towards Destiny, or one of their non CCG star wars games. True, but how many Pro Tour contestants earn more purse each year than they spend in cards and travel? I'm guessing three, four tops. The FFG Star Wars game looks pretty good. It will be interesting to see whether SW appeals to this generation to the extent that the original did to the previous.
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Feb 2, 2017 20:09
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Spoils did the cash money angle, which didn't work so well. Tbh MTG Protour prizing is such a terrible value vs time/money spent it's laughable to anyone with any awareness. That said, to outsiders I guess it's a viable carrot. MtG simply has too much infrastructure to be ousted anytime soon from the king of physical CCGs. Weekly/daily tournaments at almost every local game store are powerful ways to build communities and encourage repeat participation. Online, Hearthstone has wrecked MTG Online and left it bleeding in a ditch.
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Feb 2, 2017 20:30
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Plus, you know, it's been going for almost 30 years and has like 12,000 unique cards printed, and is one of the only games you can buy like anywhere (hell I've bought Magic cards at a grocery store in the past). The only way to dethrone Magic would be with a card game tied to a franchise that can garner more enthusiasm than three decades of inertia - and if Pokemon and YGO can't do it, I don't think the odds are good for anyone.
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Feb 2, 2017 20:51
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Gynovore posted:Oops yeah, patent. There's an entire class of wanna-be pro tour hangers on called grinders that spend all their time just breaking even on buying cards and going to events. Outside of that the money in MtG is in barnstorming, being an average to decent player and finding small independent local events with cash or booster box prizes and showing up with a top tier deck and some knowledge of how to play it. Especially in places like Cali you can hit up several tournaments or events in a week and if you top 3 in all of them you can expect to walk away with a hundred to a few hundred in prizes and cash. It's not real money but the kinds of people doing this are either your stereotypical basement dwellers or self styled eBay dealers who have access to card pool they can borrow from and who are churning stock anyways.
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Feb 2, 2017 21:26
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food court bailiff posted:Plus, you know, it's been going for almost 30 years and has like 12,000 unique cards printed, and is one of the only games you can buy like anywhere (hell I've bought Magic cards at a grocery store in the past). Neither could World of Warcraft, and it had literal scratch-offs to literally scratch that gambling itch more than Magic. I think companies are perfectly happy capitalizing on how bad and un-intuitive Magic Online is by releasing online-only card games.
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Feb 2, 2017 22:24
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BJPaskoff posted:Neither could World of Warcraft, and it had literal scratch-offs to literally scratch that gambling itch more than Magic. I think companies are perfectly happy capitalizing on how bad and un-intuitive Magic Online is by releasing online-only card games. It's been a while since I was on, but personally I don't think MTGO was "un-intuitive". The main problem, IHMO, was the playerbase; it might as well have been called "Autism Online".
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Feb 2, 2017 23:27
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Gynovore posted:It's been a while since I was on, but personally I don't think MTGO was "un-intuitive". The main problem, IHMO, was the playerbase; it might as well have been called "Autism Online". I tried to play MTGO once, I got halfway through the tutorial and didn't know what the gently caress was going on.
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Feb 3, 2017 02:14
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Gynovore posted:It's been a while since I was on, but personally I don't think MTGO was "un-intuitive". The main problem, IHMO, was the playerbase; it might as well have been called "Autism Online". Even pro players who have played magic for 20 years often can't make heads or tails of the MTGO UI.
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Feb 3, 2017 03:15
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My UFS stuff got here. Trip report hopefully incoming soon.
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Feb 3, 2017 03:24
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Flaggy posted:I tried to play MTGO once, I got halfway through the tutorial and didn't know what the gently caress was going on. A dude posted:Even pro players who have played magic for 20 years often can't make heads or tails of the MTGO UI. Hmm, I never had any problems. Of course, I quit 5 years ago, before the Big Overhaul 2-3 years back.
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Feb 3, 2017 04:11
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food court bailiff posted:My UFS stuff got here. Trip report hopefully incoming soon. What a weird game. I enjoyed it but the rhythm of the game was pretty different from most CCGs, if that makes any sense, and we were both new so there was little strategy and more "well okay I'm pretty sure I can pass a control check for this and it might help me later, I guess?" I'm looking forward to playing more but was kind of worried about some rules questions - are there good tutorial videos available by any chance?
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Feb 3, 2017 17:38
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There are a pair of Tutorial videos on Jasco's YouTube page, but I'd be glad to help you out when it comes to any questions you may have. The one thing I will say right now though relates to Dr. Wily's Response ability and other abilities like it that reference "you" and Cards. Dr. Wily's second ability reads: R [Once per turn]: After you destroy a foundation, add the top card of your deck to your staging area face down. The important thing to note is the "After you destroy..." part. Emphasis on the you. Basically, whenever something happens to a card, that card's owner/controller is the one that performs the action. So, if you have an effect that lets you destroy one of your opponent's Foundations, you get to choose the Foundation to be destroyed. But it is still technically your opponent that is destroying the Foundation. So, you can only use the response when destroying one of your own Foundations. Another example would be Mega Man's second ability. E Discard 1 card: Commit 1 of your opponent's foundations. You discard a card to pay the cost, you choose a Foundation, your opponent commits it. Long story short, you technically only physically interact with your own cards.
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Feb 4, 2017 02:08
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Thanks, that actually clarifies things quite a bit. It's kind of all coming together now, I guess the biggest issue for us just pertained to the Enhance step - it's confusing because a ton of Foundations obviously have E effects, and the Enhance step mentions playing actions from your hand, but that's JUST actions. For our first game we misread that as playing any enhance ability cards from your hand, which....since they weren't used as Blocks, got added to the staging area. It's obvious how that got unbalanced quickly. Blocks can only be played from your hand, right? Can E and F effects be played from the card pool or just from the staging area? Also, how in god's name do Reversals work, the whole "KEYWORD ABILITIES" header of the rules could be way better ("The descriptions that do not appear on the cards appear below in italics", says the section header completely devoid of italics). When it says Stun: X (Enhance) does that mean that Stun: X is inherently an Enhance ability and not an innate part of an attack?
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Feb 4, 2017 19:46
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Actions with Enhance (or applicable Response) abilities are the only ones that can be played from your hand during the Enhance Step. You only play Foundations into the Card Pool as a Form, so, as normal. Blocks are from hand only, unless the card's effect says otherwise. E and F abilities on Foundations and Assets can only be played while in your Staging Area. Reversals work like this: After you have successfully blocked an Attack, you may add an Attack with the Reversal Keyword from your hand to your Card Pool, and play it as a Reversal. You determine its difficulty, and make a control check for it as normal. It has its own Enhance Step as normal. Once the attack fully resolves, control returns to your opponent. Yeah, the Rules Sheet will hopefully be formatted much better for the Street Fighter Starters. But anyways, Keyword Abilities grant that ability to the given card. So, an Attack with Stun: 2 would let you call it as an Enhance to have your opponent commit 2 Foundations. The Keyword Abilities are as follows (All instances of "X" references that card's Rating for that Keyword): - Stun: X (E: Your opponent commits X Foundations.) - Powerful: X (E Discard 1 or more Momentum: Increase this attack's damage by X for each Momentum discarded.) - EX: X (Literally Powerful, but for Speed.) - Breaker: X (R: After you block with this card, the next card your opponent plays gets +X Difficulty.) - Multiple: X (E Discard X Momentum [Minimum 1, Maximum, the card's Multiple Rating]: Add the top X cards of your Discard Pile to your Card Pool face down as Multiple copies of this attack. - Reversal (R [Hand] Add this card to your Card Pool: After your opponent's blocked attack resolves, play this card as a Reversal to that attack.) - Throw (If this attack is completely blocked, it still deals half damage (rounded up) during the Damage Step.) - Safe (Attacks can not be played as a Reversal to this attack.) - Flash (Skip this attack's Enhance Step.) - Desperation: X (When you are at less than half of your maximum vitality, this card's Difficulty is X.) - Deadlock: X (While your opponent has more than 10 Foundations, this card's Difficulty is X.) - [Character Name] Only (This card can only be played if your Starting Character is [Name].) Abilities like Deadlock, Desperation, and [Character] Only can also apply to specific abilities as opposed to cards as a whole. Then you have Terrain, Unique, and Combo. They are more like Traits, but have abilities. Only one Terrain card can exist at a time. You can only have one copy of a Unique card in play, but you can have multiple different Unique cards. Combo is more of an "enabling" ability. If the cards preceding the current attack match the Combo requirement, you can play that attack's Combo Enhance. The EX and Deadlock Keywords were introduced in the most recent set, Blood Omen.
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Feb 5, 2017 03:23
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Awesome. Played a game last night where it really "clicked". I think I might have forgotten to double check the icons on a couple of cards I played as Wily but I lost soundly anyway so it must not have been the end of the world. It seemed kind of rocket-tag-y, honestly - for the first couple of rounds we kept biffing our attacks or successfully blocking, then all at once the MM player started using their Enhances to end up with like +4 damage on all Ranged attacks per turn and I started finally burning foundations to pump up some Ally attacks so we both went from full health to down to less than half within one turn. I think a major part of this was just overplaying our cards once we had some foundations down so we were left really hurting for blocks, and we'll probably get better at it with time. One more question: Character cards with the same name as your starting character end up as (essentially) foundations with copies of the starting characters' abilities, right? And other character cards just can't be played (or more accurately, could be played but wouldn't go to the staging area during the End Phase)?
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Feb 5, 2017 16:19
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On the Character question, yes and no. When you play a Character as a Form, one of three things will happen to it. Let's say it shares the same name as your character, but is a different version of it. At the end of the turn, it will attach to your starting character in the Staging Area. You will gain that card's abilities, and any additional Resource Symbols it may have. Your Hand Size and maximum Vitality will not change. The other two things are pretty straightforward though. If the character you played is the same card as your starting character, it will attach, but you won't gain anything. And lastly, if the character you played is a completely different character (playing a copy of Dr. Cossack as Dr. Wily), the character will just get discarded at the end of the turn. When it comes to Resource Chaining with the Starter Decks, you shouldn't need to worry unless you modified the decks. The Mega Man and Protoman Tin Starters have one thing in common. All of the cards in the decks have the same Resource Symbols as the character. So, Mega Man 1's whole deck is All/Good/Order, and Protoman 1's whole deck is Air/Earth/Fire. The normal Starter Decks, the ones that don't come in the tins, split the contents between the Starter Character, and a character from the set that shares a symbol with the Starter Character. In Wily's case, he shares Death (the Skull) with Protoman 2. Mega Man 2 (the other Rise of the Masters Starter) shares Good (the Halo) with Quick Man. Also, the last card in the Wily deck, the foil at the very back of it when you first opened it, isn't technically part of the deck. With the Rise of the Masters and Warriors of the Night Starters, they include a random Ultra Rare from that set. And since it's Random, there's always a chance you can't play it with the Starter you got. But it's just that, a bonus card.
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Feb 6, 2017 02:02
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Is UFS actually back? Was there card rotation or anything like that? I've got around 4k cards laying around from a bunch of sets and debating what I want to do with them.
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Feb 8, 2017 22:48
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Card rotation is a thing. So, the old cards aren't going to be legal for Standard, and the Sabertooth Games sets aren't really used for anything anymore since Legacy isn't really supported anymore. Standard: The last 10 Sets released. Whenever a new set comes out, the oldest Standard Legal set rotates. Turbo: A new, smaller format. Smaller decks, exactly 41 Cards, and only the last 4 sets are legal. Extended: Currently a replacement Eternal format. Only goes back to the Fantasy Flight sets. So, everything before Shadowar, the Sabertooth Games sets, aren't legal here. Not played much, but it's still better than trying to play competitive Legacy. Legacy: No longer supported. The days of 4 Attack decks are behind us forever. So, while you can still play Legacy casually, the Sabertooth Games sets aren't legal for any officially supported format.
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Feb 9, 2017 04:00
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Volfogg posted:Card rotation is a thing. So, the old cards aren't going to be legal for Standard, and the Sabertooth Games sets aren't really used for anything anymore since Legacy isn't really supported anymore. Well, that sucks since, at least around here and at the time, the licensing was about 90% of the reason for playing. Guess I'll throw some casual decks together to play during EDH night. Thanks for the info!
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Feb 9, 2017 04:42
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If a card's text isn't an E, F or R effect, it takes place whenever, right? Like if I use a card to destroy a Foundation in my Card Pool, and that card has "When this card is discarded draw 1 card" NOT as an R ability, can I take advantage of it? Will attached characters act as their own foundation for control check purchases or do you commit the "stack" of Mega Mans or whatever? (This has literally not come up, btw, I'm just curious - we usually end up using them as the ultra-fast blocks they are.) Apparently my UR from the Wily deck matched all three symbols on the Wily card so I didn't even realize it wasn't meant for it. Still having some trouble finding a comfortable rhythm for the game - it seems like you really need to play as aggressively as possible to overcome your opponent at basically every turn, and sometimes if you don't draw enough attacks or decent blocks on a turn you fall behind a bit. I think I'm going to swap out Wily for Bombman and give that a spin, maybe toss in another attack or two in place of foundations I don't rely on much. I've got the Proto Man tin and Mega Man cardboard box deck coming tomorrow, too, so I'll have more cards to play with. Are there actually local events/tournaments? I see big tournaments on Jasco's site but it doesn't seem like they have any kind of local store finder or anything, unless I'm blind.
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Feb 9, 2017 04:44
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EdsTeioh posted:Well, that sucks since, at least around here and at the time, the licensing was about 90% of the reason for playing. Guess I'll throw some casual decks together to play during EDH night. Thanks for the info! Well, when it comes to licenses, the current (and upcoming) ones are: - Red Horizon (Jasco's original IP, used mainly for what are essentially Core Sets. Only the newest one, Blood Omen, is currently Standard Legal.) - World of Indines (Level 99 Games' IP. There's currently a four deck Mini-Set for it.) - Mega Man (Three sets currently. The Tins, Rise of the Masters, and Battle for Power.) - Darkstalkers (Two sets. The Tins [Morrigan and Lilith], and Warriors of the Night.) - ^King of Fighters XIII (Three Sets. King of Fighters XIII, Ruler of Time, and Neomax.) - Street Fighter (First new SF set is the next set coming up) - Mortal Kombat (First set due this year) - Cowboy Bebop (Seriously. Set is due out this year.) ^The KOF license has expired, and the three sets are all due to rotate by the end of the year. food court bailiff posted:If a card's text isn't an E, F or R effect, it takes place whenever, right? Like if I use a card to destroy a Foundation in my Card Pool, and that card has "When this card is discarded draw 1 card" NOT as an R ability, can I take advantage of it? It depends on the wording. But I know you're talking about Balanced Fighter. Destroyed =/= Discarded So, if Balanced Fighter was destroyed while in your Staging Area, you would not draw a card. But if you discarded it from your hand for the cost of Designed for Combat, you would draw 1 for Balanced Fighter's static ability, and then draw 1 for Designed for Combat's effect. Now, if it was in your Card Pool, and you ended up using an effect like Protoman 1's first Enhance (E [Once Per Turn]: Discard 1 card from your Card Pool.), then you would draw 1 card. Not many ways to actually do the latter, and I don't see many reasons for actually discarding one you just played into the Card Pool. So you usually end up actually discarding Balanced Fighter from your hand. quote:Will attached characters act as their own foundation for control check purchases or do you commit the "stack" of Mega Mans or whatever? (This has literally not come up, btw, I'm just curious - we usually end up using them as the ultra-fast blocks they are.) You commit the stack together. quote:Apparently my UR from the Wily deck matched all three symbols on the Wily card so I didn't even realize it wasn't meant for it. If it matched all three of his symbols, you must have gotten either Self Destruct, or Flying Fortress Buster. Those are his URs from Rise of the Masters. quote:Still having some trouble finding a comfortable rhythm for the game - it seems like you really need to play as aggressively as possible to overcome your opponent at basically every turn, and sometimes if you don't draw enough attacks or decent blocks on a turn you fall behind a bit. I think I'm going to swap out Wily for Bombman and give that a spin, maybe toss in another attack or two in place of foundations I don't rely on much. I've got the Proto Man tin and Mega Man cardboard box deck coming tomorrow, too, so I'll have more cards to play with. The rhythm of a deck will usually depend on the character's effects/play style in addition to how you build that deck. You'll generally spend the first turn or two building your Staging Area so you have Foundations to spare to make up for failed checks. Maybe throwing a low difficulty attack as a poke to get a jump on damage. The third turn is where the attacks will likely start being played more often, but your hand/deck may end up saying otherwise by getting a bunch of attacks early on, or getting nothing but Foundations when you're in range of a KO. quote:Are there actually local events/tournaments? I see big tournaments on Jasco's site but it doesn't seem like they have any kind of local store finder or anything, unless I'm blind. Honestly, the best thing to do for that would be to ask on Jasco's forums. The only playgroups I can vouch for are my own (NorCal, SF Bay Area), and Vegas (Jasco is HQ'd in Vegas). I mean, I know there are others, but I don't know things like the stores they play at or when they meet. Sorry I can't really help out too much with that. If you'd like to just try out different stuff, even if it's just online, you can play others using OCTGN. If anyone wants to try it out like that, let me know and I'll help you out.
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Feb 9, 2017 06:54
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You weren't kidding earlier in the thread when you said the Protoman deck will beat Mega Man out of the tins most of the time - I just played a game where I went first as Protoman, got wrecked to the tune of 15 damage (out of 20!) on Mega Man's first turn, and then clung to those last five vitality with everything I had as I just took them apart over the course of the next few turns. It was one of the coolest matchups I've played in pretty much any card game, and while there's some issues with balance particularly between decks just the fact that you have that option of playing really conservatively and holding onto decent blocks adds some tough strategic choices. I was more bummed than I should admit that the poster/playmat in the Protoman tin was of MM and not Protoman. 
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Feb 11, 2017 22:08
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I just learned that the reason every other card game comes up with their own clunky synonyms for "tap" and "untap" is that those concepts are patented. Yes, really. https://www.google.com/patents/US5662332
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Feb 18, 2017 01:55
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They own a patent on the very idea of collectible card games, but I'm not sure how strictly they enforce it (since bringing it to court and losing could invalidate it). I'm pretty sure at least early Yu-Gi-Oh instruction manuals had WotC licensing information even though they didn't have anything to do with the game itself.
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Feb 18, 2017 07:05
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The patent expired years ago
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Mar 7, 2017 18:17
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In case someone still remembers Duel Masters, here's WotC's Mark Rosewater talking about its history: http://media.wizards.com/2017/podcasts/magic/drivetowork417_duelmasterstcg.mp3
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Mar 10, 2017 19:56
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I played the poo poo out of the Decipher online LOTR card game and was so pissed to see that end with all my paid for cards just vanishing into the ether. It was far far easier to use than MTGO and I got some years of fun out of that. I had a super entertaining Warg based shadow deck that just ran through some people. I miss that loving card game even though thinking about it I barely remember how it's played. It just had something to it, running essentially 2 decks, one for winning and one for making the opponent lose that just came together beautifully. If anything needs to come back as an LCG it's that game and with FFG having their own LOTR game I can't ever see it happening. Such a damned shame. \/\/\/\/\/\/ Well holy poo poo, see you in there once I look the rules back up. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ TGG fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Mar 11, 2017 |
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Mar 10, 2017 23:28
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TGG posted:I played the poo poo out of the Decipher online LOTR card game and was so pissed to see that end with all my paid for cards just vanishing into the ether. It was far far easier to use than MTGO and I got some years of fun out of that. I had a super entertaining Warg based shadow deck that just ran through some people. I miss that loving card game even though thinking about it I barely remember how it's played. It just had something to it, running essentially 2 decks, one for winning and one for making the opponent lose that just came together beautifully. If anything needs to come back as an LCG it's that game and with FFG having their own LOTR game I can't ever see it happening. Such a damned shame. Though I hope you like Fellowship block. (I run Hobbits/Nazgul.)
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Mar 10, 2017 23:53
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