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WeX Majors posted:Since it's not like it's a thing that any sort of Wiki would have posted The Hunger Games lists the salient beats of it: President Snow's modus operandi when it came to killing his enemies (or his allies that he feared would become his enemies down the line) was using poison. Since his targets would naturally be a little bit wary about chugging a drink while Snow didn't, he would drink the same things they did and have an antidote at the ready. Since the antidotes don't work perfectly, his mouth has open sores that never heal. Since nobody wants a President whose breath smells like blood, he always has a perfumed rose with him so people smell that. Also, from something I found when reading the wiki: Elite posted:The world in The Hunger Games makes absolutely no sense, but it demands to be treated with total seriousness. The Reaping is supposed to subjugate the districts but in any logical universe it would achieve the opposite, unifying the people against their oppressors, and really it just seems to be conducted for shits and giggles. Basically during the first rebellion against the Capitol, District 13 basically lead the other Districts in it. They were the source of all of their weaponry, equipment, and leadership. When the Capitol allegedly bombed them into dust, the other Districts completely lost their ability to make war. So when the peace treaty was made up, the Capitol could dictate any terms they wanted. I think that the Games do subjugate the Districts in a two-fold way: one, the system has been going on so long that "The Capitol gets to take your kids" is just something you live with. Secondly, the competition between Districts within the Games ensures that whatever anger anyone has that their friend's kid was killed is directed at their literal killer - that rear end in a top hat from District 5 - instead of the broader group that put him there that you can't do anything about.
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Nov 23, 2014 08:34
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MisterBibs posted:Basically during the first rebellion against the Capitol, District 13 basically lead the other Districts in it. They were the source of all of their weaponry, equipment, and leadership. When the Capitol allegedly bombed them into dust, the other Districts completely lost their ability to make war. So when the peace treaty was made up, the Capitol could dictate any terms they wanted. Yeah it's not exactly unheard of for people to "accept" brutal regimes for a long-rear end time before rebelling. It's why they keep hammering in the point "remember who the true enemy is", because people forgot. Just watched this last night and I enjoyed it but movie studios really need to stop splitting up movies. It's so transparently a marketing/money making move and all it does is make it feel both bloated (so it can get the "epic" 2 hour runtime) and neutered (since they wanna save the good stuff for the last part), like a fat eunuch of a movie that's mainly just a toothless teaser for the real movie that they're gonna sit on for another year.
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Nov 23, 2014 10:44
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Krowley posted:Yeah it's not exactly unheard of for people to "accept" brutal regimes for a long-rear end time before rebelling. It's why they keep hammering in the point "remember who the true enemy is", because people forgot. I actually like it, saw it last night too. To me the ending was very relative to the entire installment. Mocking Jay 1, propaganda phase. Mocking Jay II bloody war phase. Peeta being driven bat poo poo crazy, insane. Being used as a propaganda piece, the whole propaganda, spin factor was the core of MJ1 I also don't so much see the cash grab. Sure they want to make money but unlike so many other movies they didn't try and huckster us with 3D that would have turned 100 mill in to 150 mill just by virtue of inflated ticket prices. They are still selling this on the merit of the content and if the last one is half a movie as well, yes I'd agree it was a bleeder but if the final movie turns out to be epic and this was all the stuff they wanted kept in and needed to be handled I'd say they played it right.
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Nov 23, 2014 11:52
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With Finnick? Katniss tries and fails to film a propo after the bombing, so Finnick steps up. Up to this point, he's been mostly silent and as mentally unstable as she is. He tells about his life after he became a victor- he was very young when he won, but as soon as he turned sixteen, the Capitol began to give him away as a reward or for favors. Without mincing words, he was forced into prostitution. I can't recall if they ended up killing his family over it, but they threatened to. In Catching Fire, Katniss comments that Finnick is known for his gold digging and short-term relationships. Here, Finnick reveals that so much of this "gold digging" is from his buyers, as a consolation prize. He began to get them to tell him heir darkest secrets, because that's way more useful than money. In the novel, he talks about several different ones before landing on Snow. The film managed to get just about all of that one in.
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Nov 23, 2014 17:07
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It's a shame that Finnick's speech is kind of drowned out, but that whole sequence was actually incredibly well done. I think there was a great feeling of dread throughout that whole portion of the film. As for the rest of it? I liked it quite a bit. I like the comments it makes about the grooming of Katniss, and about the removal of her agency. I like that it fully commits to what it's doing. It doesn't sugercoat anything. Yes it's occasionally on the nose, but it's fine. It's telling the story with confidence. The stuff between Katniss and Peta is maybe the most frustrating, because it's hard to justify that people everywhere are dying and she keeps caring about just one of them. But at the same time she's still a teenager and while it makes sense it's still frustrating to watch. It's worse that Lawrence and her costars just don't have chemistry. At least Gale calls her out on her poo poo, and later it's pointed out that really Katniss is still just a girl.
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Nov 23, 2014 18:20
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I saw it last night and I thoroughly enjoyed it. The back-and-forth sequence with Finnick and the infiltration was well done, and I thought the salient point - Finnick was forced into prostitution and learned the secrets of the rich and powerful, including Snow - came through fine. I'm curious how they're going to treat Annie in Part II, in the book she's described as being pretty severely damaged and not really aware of what's going on around her.
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Nov 23, 2014 18:43
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I couldn't believe Jena Malone showed up and didn't get a single line.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:14
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AGirlWonder posted:Haha I really wanted the film to end at Peeta trying to kill Katniss. Had I not just finished the books, I would have been flipping out. I think the actors did that one very well. I broke out laughing at the fade to black there for the same assumption, especially with the immediacy and Sam Raimi-ness of it all ruining any sort of gravitas. Someone booed me for that. I probably deserved it.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:42
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Did anyone else kind of laugh when they showed the completed propo after District 8, where they are essentially watching the trailer for the movie they're in?
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Nov 23, 2014 20:31
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HD DAD posted:Did anyone else kind of laugh when they showed the completed propo after District 8, where they are essentially watching the trailer for the movie they're in? I laughed when they conveniently cut the commercial right before the plane she shot down hit the hospital.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:10
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MisterBibs posted:
Yeah, I think the only reason that audiences might not be able to buy people putting up with the Reaping as viable is that the movies didn't do as good a job of the books as setting up what's going on in the districts. They're kept starving so all their energy is simply spent trying to survive. They're kept under heavy surveillance--if anybody was to start planning a revolution, the Capital would know instantly. Infractions much less serious than inciting rebellion are punished not just by killing the rebel, but often by murdering their loved ones too (or instead). The technological difference between the Capital and the districts are obvious throughout the films--Katniss is lucky to have a bow & arrow (and most people have nothing), whereas the Capital has weaponry more sophisticated than the present-day United States. Even if the districts did reach a point where they were capable of planning a revolution, they'd never be able to execute it against a city that's so much more technologically advanced than they are. That's why the hints that we see of rebellion in Catching Fire just end up with people dead--without D13's weaponry, there is no chance of a rebellion succeeding. If people push back against the Reaping, they die. Presumably that happened in its early days when people were less resigned to it, but at this point, when it's been going on for 75 years, people understand what fate they'll inevitably meet if they try.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:54
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Somebody else who saw this tell me if this stood out to you, or if it's just us: During the capitol's public execution sequence when we're seeing each of the districts gathered en masse at their justice buildings to watch, the farming district was 90% black people. Which is only made worse by the medium/close shot they chose of the crowd, in which only about 15 people fit, and literally all of them in one shot are black. As if that's not enough, evidently people in that district wear depression-era field hand clothing. I don't want to imply that it was on purpose but seriously, did not even one guy at the table raise his hand and say "yeah this is not gonna look right, c'mon"
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Nov 23, 2014 23:59
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Slim Killington posted:Somebody else who saw this tell me if this stood out to you, or if it's just us: I think that's the point, that district is supposed to be around Mississippi and Alabama.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:05
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Slim Killington posted:Somebody else who saw this tell me if this stood out to you, or if it's just us:
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Nov 24, 2014 00:11
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Yeah, District 11 is a) highly implied to be located in the Deep South, b) highly implied to be almost entirely or entirely black, and c) the chief agricultural district. If the imagery surrounding it is reminiscent of a giant slavery plantation (with the Capital workers as overseers and the Capital itself as the plantation owner), that's because it's supposed to be.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:38
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Gotcha -- that's what happens when you watch something with your production blinders on. I didn't at all remember that about 11, but it's been so long now since reading the books.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:58
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I was invited to see Hunger Games 2.5, so I double-featured the first two to catch up. It's weird that people wouldn't/won't shut up about Battle Royale, when Hunger Games is really - more than any other film - a rip on The Truman Show. The joke throughout is the same: Katniss escapes from television into film. There's no point where the movies aren't some Harry Potter bullshit - nowhere more evident than in the terribly unconvincing dream sequences.
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Nov 24, 2014 01:22
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The pause after Peeta trying to kill Katniss wasn't that long but everyone at the show I went to were so poised and ready for the movie to end on a stupid actiony cliffhanger that multiple people were already cracking jokes about to be continued and getting up to leave before the next scene started. Then sat back down and stopped talking awkwardly of course.
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Nov 24, 2014 02:28
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This was a really fun children's film about terrorism, torture, and propaganda. The content that District 13 puts out to support the rebellion is identical in content to the series's trailers, going so far as to copy the outros from previous films. Similarly, the speeches from District Thirteen's President seem to mimic the language of the Capital. In her final speech, the rebel president claims that "the districts are speaking out with one voice," which Snow claims as well to support his authority. I was not a big fan of the dream sequence, and thought the pacing was a little slow at the start. The complaints about Finnick's speech confuse me, because I thought the movie presented it in a very effective way. cheerfullydrab posted:The pause after Peeta trying to kill Katniss wasn't that long but everyone at the show I went to were so poised and ready for the movie to end on a stupid actiony cliffhanger that multiple people were already cracking jokes about to be continued and getting up to leave before the next scene started. Then sat back down and stopped talking awkwardly of course. My theater had people whipping out their phones to check the time, only to put them back a few seconds later.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:02
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aslan posted:I don't think it would have driven the unspoiled to want to see the next one--it just would have annoyed them. It would have annoyed me, and I know the reason for it. (Not to mention that anybody who was really curious about the reason he did it would just ask their friends/go on the internet long before the next movie came out.) It's just not a good enough cliffhanger to end a movie on. I don't know what would have been a better place to cut, though--I didn't like how they chose to end it any better. Ending spoiler I think President Snow saying he knew that the place was being infiltrated would have made a stronger ending.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:56
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QuoProQuid posted:This was a really fun children's film about terrorism, torture, and propaganda. The content that District 13 puts out to support the rebellion is identical in content to the series's trailers, going so far as to copy the outros from previous films. Similarly, the speeches from District Thirteen's President seem to mimic the language of the Capital. In her final speech, the rebel president claims that "the districts are speaking out with one voice," which Snow claims as well to support his authority. This is the point that the series has steadily been building up to: that it's not the propaganda itself that's bad, but the interpretation. Katniss, in the first film, unwittingly creates powerful imagery of blowing up the wealth pyramid, killing herself to defy God, and so-on. These images are ultimately more true than her (or Peeta's) personal, inner motivations. When Mockingjay starts, all the rebel propaganda is just true. The key scene is the one where they film the firebombed victims of District 12, and the presentation is identical to what Katniss experienced alone. The message is that, yes, this is propaganda - but it's good propaganda, accurately expressing what the people feel. Better: there are multiple scenes of characters stepping up to speak for Katniss when she is unable to. And Katniss, in turn, sings a song for the man whose tongue was cut out. The Districts actually are speaking out with one voice, whereas Snow is referring only to his voice.
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Nov 24, 2014 07:55
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ghostwritingduck posted:Ending spoiler Vaguely related: holy poo poo is Donald Sutherland terrifying when his eyes go wide and he's got a poo poo-eating grin on.
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Nov 24, 2014 08:52
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Had President Boring gotten her way and Peeta wasn't given amnesty, exactly what would the tribunal have been for? So far as I know, he didn't betray anyone aside from appearing on TV in a situation where he was clearly a POW and under duress.
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Nov 24, 2014 12:58
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I just remembered my favourite little moment was when Hoffman changes one of the words in Katniss' song to make it seem more hopeful. They really amp up the media satire in this one.
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Nov 24, 2014 13:33
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Saw this on Saturday and I agree with a lot of the points here, it was a solid installment and the book was split exactly where I figured it would (though I thought they might have included the attack on The Egg in this one as the climax). I cntinue to be impressed by these movies for the credit they give their audience for handling some pretty disturbing material - the death toll in this movie has to be in the thousands and the scenes in which they occur always have the appropriate gravity. The last couple of scenes with Peeta resemble a horror film in their tone and I love how the filmmakers aren't afraid to scare the poo poo out of the kids watching this stuff when it becomes necessary. I definitely agree on watering down Finnick's propo though. That was one of the most striking things in the books for me, because introducing the idea of the Capitol pimping out kids is a pretty brave thing for a YA novel to float. Here it's completely overshadowed by the rebel assault when it deserved to be at the forefront.
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Nov 24, 2014 15:21
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aslan posted:Yeah, District 11 is a) highly implied to be located in the Deep South, b) highly implied to be almost entirely or entirely black, and c) the chief agricultural district. If the imagery surrounding it is reminiscent of a giant slavery plantation (with the Capital workers as overseers and the Capital itself as the plantation owner), that's because it's supposed to be. Supported by the movie background at least: 
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Nov 24, 2014 16:58
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aslan posted:Yeah, District 11 is a) highly implied to be located in the Deep South, b) highly implied to be almost entirely or entirely black, and c) the chief agricultural district. If the imagery surrounding it is reminiscent of a giant slavery plantation (with the Capital workers as overseers and the Capital itself as the plantation owner), that's because it's supposed to be. I always read District 12 to be Appalachia, but that might be because of Lawrence in Winter's Bone.
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Nov 24, 2014 17:30
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is the point that the series has steadily been building up to: that it's not the propaganda itself that's bad, but the interpretation. Katniss, in the first film, unwittingly creates powerful imagery of blowing up the wealth pyramid, killing herself to defy God, and so-on. These images are ultimately more true than her (or Peeta's) personal, inner motivations. How do you characterize the film's undercutting of its own propaganda? Katniss's song and the dam bombing is split by a small comedic scene where Hoffman's character changes the word "rope" to "hope." During the Tributes' rescue, Katniss and Finnick are used as an ineffective distraction, while the real attention is on the heroism of the special forces team. The film ends with District 13's President delivering a speech on unity and freedom as Katniss approaches Peeta, who has been turned against the rebellion and is bound in chains. I think your earlier comparison to The Truman Show is apt, because significant time is spent showing that the Mockingjay is not real and instead the product of an extremely powerful media. There's also a few scenes, such as the hospital bombing where the film crew is treated as exploitative and callous as the handlers in the Capital. One gets the sense that even if she has escaped the Capital, that she is still playing the Games.
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Nov 24, 2014 17:33
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QuoProQuid posted:that she is still playing the Games. I really enjoyed the part where Katniss was watching Peeta's interview and she says "He's still playing the game." It takes her a bit of time to realize that she is too, and then embraces it by fully becoming the MockingJay avatar for the movement.
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Nov 24, 2014 17:58
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QuoProQuid posted:How do you characterize the film's undercutting of its own propaganda? Katniss's song and the dam bombing is split by a small comedic scene where Hoffman's character changes the word "rope" to "hope." During the Tributes' rescue, Katniss and Finnick are used as an ineffective distraction, while the real attention is on the heroism of the special forces team. The film ends with District 13's President delivering a speech on unity and freedom as Katniss approaches Peeta, who has been turned against the rebellion and is bound in chains. I think your earlier comparison to The Truman Show is apt, because significant time is spent showing that the Mockingjay is not real and instead the product of an extremely powerful media. This just amounts to saying that movies have editing, which of course they do. Editing is an art, and this is a pro-art movie. The 'callous' film crew are professional war photographers. Finnick isn't 'used' as an ineffective distraction. His speech is the climax of the film, and there's a reason it's intercut with the rescue of the torture victims. He's speaking bravely about the abuse he suffered, and the tech people have encoded a jamming signal in his message that literally causes it to physically free people. The basic visual is that his words have the power of a special forces team. This is some good poo poo. It's a classic 'Let's Put On A Show To Save The Orphanage!' movie - except the show is legit communist propaganda, and the orphanage is the working class. Peeta hissing and screaming in the hospital bed is a reference to that concept of risking your life to save the cat that hates you. The visual at the end is of keeping a brave face even though you've got personal problems. It's good that they're keeping their spirits up while trying to cure his torture-insanity. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Nov 24, 2014 |
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Nov 24, 2014 20:25
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Party Plane Jones posted:Supported by the movie background at least: Thanks for that, by the way. I've never seen a represenation of the Districts as a map before, it's cool to be able to check some of my guesses against the filmmakers. Presumably Suzanne Collins had some idea of where in the real world corresponded to each district. I'd had District 4 on the Gulf coast, not the Pacific, but it still works. The Capitol feels like Utah or Colorado, somewhere not too far from the real location of NORAD, with a kind of Salt Lake City vibe to it. And yeah, 12 is Appalachia in my mind, too, because of the coal mining and rugged, forested terrain.
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Nov 25, 2014 00:32
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The films get away with a lot because the districts are tiny. Like, I'd guess the capital has a population of maybe one or two million. When they show the reaping in the first film, that's District 12's entire teenage population. We're talking - at most - a population in the five digits. The entire rest of the continent, outside these twelve small towns, is apparently just empty forest (plus the hidden base). So while we're seeing two levels of satire (a satire of reality TV inside a satire of YA franchises), the games function as a microcosm within a microcosm. The arenas are stupid, but stupid in a way that reflects the authorship of Crane and Plutarch. The cornucopias blatantly represent the capital, and you can work backward from there. When Katniss tries to escape into the woods the first time, Crane unleashes the apocalyptic fire. The second time, Plutarch lets them see the boundary as more of an artificial imposition. Inside the boundaries, it's the same deal. Crane is building a narrative where, without the capital's strong guidance, the districts tear themselves apart. So the only way they can earn the capital's grace is by sacrificing everything to it. Any smaller alliance is doomed. Love is doomed. There's only one source of hope. Crane's ultimate message is that people must freely choose to obey. That's the first film's 'They Live'-style ideological critique of Survivor shows. Plutarch, instead, is a satirist who talks down to his audience, making the ideological message extremely explicit. The godlike punishments 'from above' are emphasized, their arbitrary and cyclical nature is underlined... When the survivors run to the security of the cornucopia/capital, Plutarch shakes them off, making the only stable reference point the big tree that flashes "12" at regular intervals. It is basically set up as a Jesus story where Katniss is the vehicle for God's suicide. Again, the message is to freely choose what's necessary but, this time, it actually is pretty close to authentic freedom. On top of this, the first two films function as satires of themselves. Katniss herself is kinda dumb and needs to be talked down to, because she prioritizes her YA love triangle and really doesn't grasp what's going on. Her love of Peeta in Part 3 is the biggest dramatic threat, because she's always about to sacrifice the entire revolution for her teen crush. This familial selfishness, like most of her actions, is (mis)interpreted by her compatriots as an intense political love for the dehumanized victims of torture. But we should reject cynicism here. While Katniss might be an unexceptional, stupid human on the inside, this powerful Idea that she represents to other people is the truth - and she reaches her full potential when she taps into that truth and becomes an avatar of justice. She basically plays the same role as Bane in The Dark Knight Rises, where the masked performance is true, and the human underneath is a mere accident. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Nov 25, 2014 |
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Nov 25, 2014 03:18
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The films get away with a lot because the districts are tiny. Like, I'd guess the capital has a population of maybe one or two million. When they show the reaping in the first film, that's District 12's entire teenage population. We're talking - at most - a population in the five digits. The entire rest of the continent, outside these twelve small towns, is apparently just empty forest (plus the hidden base). i liked the song
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Nov 25, 2014 03:50
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Just saw this. Haven't read the books which most of you seem to have done. Found it just unbearably dull. The supposed satire of the media is so superficial, but the movie spends so much time on this, with speech after speech after speech after holy poo poo another council meeting? I liked the first and second for their sense of adventure. But the expanded world of district thirteen was a total snooze. Katniss felt like she was just as much a spectator as I was. It doesn't help that hemsworth is boring as well.
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Nov 26, 2014 09:25
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Cocoa Ninja posted:Just saw this. Haven't read the books which most of you seem to have done. Found it just unbearably dull. I'm sure someone else has said this (tl;dr), but the movie, as an adaptation, is brilliantly done. It stays true to the book and looks just as spectacular as it possibly could have. It's just unfortunate that this portion of the entire narrative is pretty much all ramp-up; blame the money-hungry studios for splitting up the last book. The thing is, I'd be all for sitting in the theatre for four to five hours with an intermission where it's split, but apparently other people have lives 
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Nov 28, 2014 07:11
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Cocoa Ninja posted:Katniss felt like she was just as much a spectator as I was. That's not by accident and is a major part of the story at this point.
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Nov 28, 2014 21:33
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bubblelubble posted:I'm sure someone else has said this (tl;dr), but the movie, as an adaptation, is brilliantly done. It stays true to the book and looks just as spectacular as it possibly could have. Agreed it's one of the rare films that is better than the book.
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Nov 30, 2014 09:45
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Just saw this, and I can never remember her name, but Effie remains the best character ever and the actor that plays her always plays her perfectly.
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Dec 1, 2014 02:52
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Stalins Moustache posted:Just saw this, and I can never remember her name, but Effie remains the best character ever and the actor that plays her always plays her perfectly. Elizabeth Banks is a national treasure.
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Dec 1, 2014 14:24
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Stalins Moustache posted:Just saw this, and I can never remember her name, but Effie remains the best character ever and the actor that plays her always plays her perfectly. She's great. And it's sad that she gets so few scenes with Hoffman because they do some really good work together. Hoffman in generally is great here. He looks like he's enjoying himself. It's a lighter performance than I expected.
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Dec 1, 2014 14:48
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