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Temascos posted:And what MOTIVATED Capcom to farm out DMC to a developer like Ninja Theory anyway? I loved Heavenly Sword but I cannot fathom why they would be the prime developers for a flagship series, one that Capcom desperately needs to keep running. Inafune. Prior to leaving Capcom, Inafune was very vocal about how Japanese developers were failing and believed that the future of gaming was western developers and Japanese producers. He's the one who encouraged this, and the developers themselves have said as much. This is the reason why you got western developers for a lot of other Capcom titles too and Capcom trying to publish things like Dark Void. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Dec 16, 2011 |
# ? Dec 16, 2011 21:27 |
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# ? May 4, 2024 16:20 |
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The art style is very good. If there's one thing that can be said about Ninja Theory, it's that the art style for the games is pretty solid. Barring of course New Coke Dante. That said, I don't get why this couldn't have been a new IP. As Monkey Fracas said, the only thing linking it to DMC is "Dante", and a similar premise behind the gameplay. Would it have really been that difficult to call it something else? It could at least then stand on its own merits rather than allow itself to be compared to the other DMC games. The stories are really just so much set dressing in these games anyway.
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 21:27 |
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ImpAtom posted:Itagaki. Prior to leaving Capcom, Itagaki was very vocal about how Japanese developers were failing and believed that the future of gaming was western developers and Japanese producers. He's the one who encouraged this. God, but why did they have to pick loving Ninja Theory of all people. Those guys are awful. Their sole claim to fame has been their precious mocap technology. Their actual games have been tepid at best.
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 21:28 |
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The other thing about God of War's combat is that while it has a much lower skill threshold than DMC, it's got more meat to it than some people think--so while you can just get away with triangle-triangle-triangle if you're boring, you can also remember to use other moves in the right context that make fights end faster and look cool as hell. It's simple, but it remains fun and satisfying. Compare this to, like, the latest Castlevania (which I did enjoy), which tries to do God of War and does -okay- but the combat really doesn't feel very directed or satisfying in the same way.
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 21:43 |
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Oxxidation posted:God, but why did they have to pick loving Ninja Theory of all people. Those guys are awful. That's harder to answer. The likely answer is that it was because of Heavenly Sword and work on DmC started before Enslaved became a complete sales bomb. Pesky Splinter posted:Would it have really been that difficult to call it something else? It could at least then stand on its own merits rather than allow itself to be compared to the other DMC games. Established franchises tend to do better for Capcom, and after several high-profile burns, they've retreated heavily into that. It's why we've got things like Dead Rising: Off the Record and Ultimate MvC3.
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 21:45 |
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Temascos posted:All this talk about using the Unreal engine puzzles me, didn't Capcom make a brand new engine for DMC4 then just scrap it? They should have passed it on to Ninja Theory so they could have a game running at 60 FPS! The engine is called NT Framework and it wasn't scrapped, it has been used for other Capcom games such as Lost Planet. The engine is PC native and Capcom then ports out the games to each platform. They didn't give it to Ninja Theory because it is an in-house technology that Capcom is extremely protective of.
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 21:53 |
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ImpAtom posted:Established franchises tend to do better for Capcom, and after several high-profile burns, they've retreated heavily into that. It's why we've got things like Dead Rising: Off the Record and Ultimate MvC3. That's understandable I guess. Speaking of MvC3, I've never really been into these sort of games, but drat. Vergil.
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 22:01 |
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ImpAtom posted:Itagaki. Prior to leaving Capcom, Itagaki was very vocal about how Japanese developers were failing and believed that the future of gaming was western developers and Japanese producers. He's the one who encouraged this, and the developers themselves have said as much. This is the reason why you got western developers for a lot of other Capcom titles too and Capcom trying to publish things like Dark Void. Don't you mean Inafune? Or is there someone I've forgotten?
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 22:01 |
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notZaar posted:The engine is called NT Framework and it wasn't scrapped, it has been used for other Capcom games such as Lost Planet. The engine is PC native and Capcom then ports out the games to each platform. They didn't give it to Ninja Theory because it is an in-house technology that Capcom is extremely protective of. With good reason, I suppose- you would need something this good to make Legendary Dark Knight mode from 4 possible. I can't believe how well it runs!
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 22:09 |
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Opendork posted:Don't you mean Inafune? Or is there someone I've forgotten? That is exactly who I mean. Sorry, I should have proofread.
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 22:12 |
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notZaar posted:The engine is called NT Framework and it wasn't scrapped, it has been used for other Capcom games such as Lost Planet. The engine is PC native and Capcom then ports out the games to each platform. They didn't give it to Ninja Theory because it is an in-house technology that Capcom is extremely protective of. Oh okay, my bad on that one. But surely they could profit from selling it, much like Epic does with the Unreal Engine? Maybe not to the same extent but still, its a perfectly servicable engine for multiple platforms and developers to use, and they would still publish the game anyway!
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 22:17 |
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Selling licenses to NT Framework would probably make Capcom a ton of money (it is just that awesome), but they are just way too protective of its code to care.
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 22:23 |
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Just a heads up : the name of the engine is MT Framework, not NT Framework. And yeah, they just don't loan that sucker out to ANYONE. On the topic of DmC, I'm hesitant to just start making GBS threads on it, but I can't say I'm not extremely disappointed in the direction the series seems to be taking. For some reason I fooled myself into thinking DMC4 was a prototype for a multi-character DMC and that we were due for a return to the old ways of Capcom action games, where you can select from a stable of characters to run through the game. After all, DMC4 worked just as well gameplay-wise whether you played Nero or Dante, and save for some gimmicky bullshit you they could have just removed or worked around, you could have played the entire game as either of them, no problem. Can you imagine a DMC game with a Dante/Nero/Vergil/Lady/Trish character select screen? I can, and let me tell you, it's loving beautiful. Instead we got... not that. So, disappointment. That said, the new game does look promising in some ways, and it's not like there isn't a swarm of negative feedback regarding the changes to the franchise already. Capcom knows there's love for the old design and style out there. Dante/Nero/Vergil/Lady/Trish selection screen, Capcom. Do it.
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 22:49 |
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:Dante/Nero/Vergil/Lady/Trish selection screen, Capcom. Do it. Add Sparda to that list. He must have his own game, full of monocles, and killing, and kicking rear end, and drinking tea.
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# ? Dec 16, 2011 22:52 |
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ImpAtom posted:Established franchises tend to do better for Capcom, and after several high-profile burns, they've retreated heavily into that. It's why we've got things like Dead Rising: Off the Record and Ultimate MvC3. This isn't about re-releasing established franchises, it's about tons of players demanding balance changes and stuff and capcom basically going "sure, but only if we can sell it to you for the same price again!" This wouldn't fly in any other genre but fighting game players actually embrace patchless games because the average opinion is that we normally don't play the games long enough to understand their true balance. Case in point is Deejay now being considered upper-mid to high tier instead of lower-mid like he used to be. This recently changed over the last year or so and I'm not talking about Deejay in SSF4, I'm referring to Deejay in Street Fighter 2: Super Turbo. Then again if Seth Killian is to be trusted then UMvC3 was never actually planned and all of that stuff was supposed to be DLC until the tsunami hit and ruined everything.
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 03:22 |
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HORSEPORN posted:Then again if Seth Killian is to be trusted... As a current Capcom employee Seth Killian's objective view on Capcom games is not to be trusted at all, but that's a discussion for another thread. In any case I hope this game is okay, I really like DMC. I don't think it'll top Bayonetta though, which is a shame (where is Bayonetta 2 )
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 03:42 |
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While I don't feel I've seen enough combat to make a judgement on that, based on what I have seen, I'm seriously skeptical of the game. Devil May Cry 3 and 4 had superb, fluid combat and it felt great to play and offered this crazy skill ceiling and it was so rewarding to become 'good' at it. I can't think of any other games besides those 2 that have really offered that experience and several have tried (Although I've heard and seen good things about Bayonetta. I haven't got to touch Bayonetta yet, and I really want to!). Looking at the trailers, it looks like it'll play like God of War, and if it does, I bury the game and cease acknowledging the existence of DmC past 4.
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 03:55 |
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The main reason I liked Dante as a character was that he seemed to know just how over the top and bullshit he was, I really hope they don't try to make this new Dante all serious and brooding, that would just loving ruin it for me. Also that look of his and the lead designer is just loving pathetic.
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 04:00 |
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Allow me, for a moment, the indulgence of doing a little armchair quarterbacking on Capcom's behalf here: What the gently caress are you guys doing? Handing off one of your flagship IP's whose primary attraction is the tight-n'-fast action ... to a developer known for middling-to-lovely action games? Why didn't you develop this in house? Too expensive? Too tied up doing other things? What is it? If you're gonna hand it off, at least give it to Platinum or the Ninja Gaiden people- Christ, we have another DMC2 on our hands here! Didn't you learn your lesson the first time on that? You guys don't need to do it again gently caress WHAT ARE YOU DOING THROW THE BALL
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 04:32 |
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Monkey Fracas posted:Allow me, for a moment, the indulgence of doing a little armchair quarterbacking on Capcom's behalf here: To be fair, Platinum's busy with Metal Gear and the Ninja Gaiden guys are busy with... Ninja Gaiden.
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 04:35 |
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ImpAtom posted:To be fair, Platinum's busy with Metal Gear and the Ninja Gaiden guys are busy with... Ninja Gaiden. I'm not about to make excuses for them loving up one of my favorite game series. Do it right or wait until you can, ya bastards!
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 04:51 |
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Enslaved was a pretty engaging, possibly even great Uncharted 2 Clone until the terrible, terrible, stupid dumb ending.
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 04:54 |
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Probably my favorite thing about the Devil May Cry series is the learning curve. The more you play, the better you get at the games. And it's more than just knowing a level layout, or getting used to the controls. Your characters are so acrobatic and potentially powerful, that you get better and better at using them all the time. You also really learn everything about the enemies, what their attacks look like, what the best way to dodge them is, which enemies you should deal with first, etc. It gets to the point where you can be in the midst of a big group of enemies, slashing away constantly, and also dodging all their attacks perfectly as if it's all been choreographed in advance. Feels pretty amazing. You can feel yourself getting better, to the point where you can utterly decimate things that were challenging to you the first time around. And it's not necessarily because of your upgrades and such, but because you know everything your opponents are going to do, and how to throw it back in their faces while devastating them at the same time. Also, if anyone here loves DMC but hasn't played Bayonetta yet, do it now. Bayonetta's freaking awesome.
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 05:06 |
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Seconding that. Bayonetta to date is the ONLY game I spent the time to get every achievement, and every unlockable in. Not ONCE did any of it feel like a chore. The gameplay is imo the pinnacle of the genre. It'll be hard to find a game that will top it in terms of style and action.
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 06:23 |
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Yeah, this is why I have high hopes for Metal Gear: Revengance. There's not too many games other than those in the fighting genre that have high skill ceilings and let ya just play 'em forever. It's like gaming industry planned obsolescence or something. EDIT: \/\/\/Revenge + Vengeance = REVENGANCE. That's how I see it, anyway.\/\/\/ Monkey Fracas fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Dec 17, 2011 |
# ? Dec 17, 2011 06:26 |
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Monkey Fracas posted:Yeah, this is why I have high hopes for Metal Gear: Revengance. There's not too many games other than those in the fighting genre that have high skill ceilings and let ya just play 'em forever. It's like gaming industry planned obsolescence or something. Okay, so this post was how I found out about that new subtitle for Rising. Is that vengeance for a second time or a portmanteau of revenge and vengeance?
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 08:33 |
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I hope the Vita version of Rising is still in the works, so I can transfar my revengance.
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 09:38 |
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AccountingNightmare posted:Probably my favorite thing about the Devil May Cry series is the learning curve. The more you play, the better you get at the games. And it's more than just knowing a level layout, or getting used to the controls. Your characters are so acrobatic and potentially powerful, that you get better and better at using them all the time. Devil May Cry 3 was the first game where I really found the fun in learning a game as best I could. I'm absolutely awful at any difficulty above Normal (Special Edition Normal, of course), but I had a blast at learning all the hidden ins-and-outs of both the enemies and Dante. Learning something as basic as Dante's jump and first Trickster dash had invulnerability frames blew my goddamn mind and encouraged me to try these new tricks against old enemies and stages. A player's familiarity with the mechanics, weapons and enemies allows them to MAKE enemies into hilarious punching bags instead of simply having enemies BE that way from the get go. I think that's what gives the gameplay of the DMC series and games like it (such as Bayonetta) such style and excitement. One of the things that really wows me is how simple a lot of the controls are for such a deep and open system. The most complex any move gets in DMC3 is simultaneously pressing forward/backward and an attack button at the same time. The rest is up to the player to learn when and how to best utilize it. After a while, it's so open-ended and intuitive that you can effortlessly link moves together in new and interesting ways. It really helps the case that less complexity in controls, not more, is one of the key factors in adding depth to an action game. Obviously it's a lot more complex than that, but it's an important first point to make.
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# ? Dec 17, 2011 11:08 |
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DMC1 was the first game I played on my PS2 all those years ago, and it more or less made buying the console worth every cent. I still consider DMC3 to be the most revolutionary in terms of making action games engaging. The core strength of the DMC series is the combo/canceling system: nearly every move can be canceled into another and it keeps combos fluid and effective enough to be worth mastering. DMC3's style system did an excellent job of diversifying combat since each style, even and especially Royal Guard (ostensibly a defensive style), works and looks best on the offense. The combo system peaked in DMC4 by letting Dante use every style of his at the same time. Behold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjsuGB3S92Q I'm willing to give Ninja Theory a chance on this, erratic though their record may be. DMC's story has always been decoration at best to comboing the poo poo out of demons, and it being a prequel works as a decent excuse to have Dante not be the Dante we're used to. We can only hope that being able to pull that insane poo poo off is a possibility in DmC's fighting system. PS: Royal Guard, the greatest blocking system ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC2R8dUM9tU
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# ? Dec 18, 2011 15:48 |
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Monkey Fracas posted:EDIT: Revenge with a Vengeance Then they SMASH TOGETHER WITH SPARKS AND poo poo and you get Revengeance! That was the most 80s trailer I have ever seen.
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# ? Dec 18, 2011 15:52 |
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Schubalts posted:Revenge with a Vengeance NOW IT'S PERSONAL
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# ? Dec 18, 2011 23:12 |
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probably my favorite DMC-related art ever.
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# ? Dec 18, 2011 23:45 |
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Aw man, even the crazy weird additional art pales in comparison to previous iterations. This reminds me of one of those insufferable AXE commercials. In fact, are you sure this is not an AXE tie-in? Now that would make me really mad. Here, have some decent additional art-stuff:
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# ? Dec 18, 2011 23:57 |
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That's... decent art, I dunno what you're getting at.
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# ? Dec 18, 2011 23:59 |
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toasterwarrior posted:I'm willing to give Ninja Theory a chance on this, erratic though their record may be. DMC's story has always been decoration at best to comboing the poo poo out of demons, and it being a prequel works as a decent excuse to have Dante not be the Dante we're used to. We can only hope that being able to pull that insane poo poo off is a possibility in DmC's fighting system. I think this is the main issue that everyone's keeping their eye on. The only thing that story and tone really effect are whether or not you'll decide to skip cutscenes on repeat playthroughs (or even your first playthrough). The big issue here is the uncertainty of whether or not Ninja Theory "gets it" and a lot of the media they've released has shown that you can do air-combos and swap weapons. Then again, I don't think anyone here has gotten their hands on a playable build so we can't be certain until the game lands. Though it certainly is easy (and fun) to prematurely bitch about it - something I'm certainly guilty of as well - especially in light of certain claims like the game is locked at 30 FPS and certain comments from PR-unsavvy devs. It is what it is, and if it doesn't end up being any good we can always fall back on the HD collection for our fix.
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# ? Dec 19, 2011 00:02 |
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Azure_Horizon posted:That's... decent art, I dunno what you're getting at. I think he means what the art is showing, not the physical quality of the art.
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# ? Dec 19, 2011 00:08 |
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I am a firm believer that Metal Gear Rising will be the sequel to Bayonetta and Dmc4 that everyone is waiting for. This DMC will sputter out and die because Capcom cannot make good decisions as of late.
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# ? Dec 19, 2011 00:21 |
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Bushmaori posted:The main reason I liked Dante as a character was that he seemed to know just how over the top and bullshit he was, I really hope they don't try to make this new Dante all serious and brooding, that would just loving ruin it for me. Also that look of his and the lead designer is just loving pathetic.
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# ? Dec 19, 2011 00:31 |
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Have a week old interview, about NT and Capcom expecting the tidal wave of negativity when they released the first trailer.Nowgamer.com posted:DmC Devil May Cry direction has full support of Capcom despite fan reaction, says Ninja Theory. Source: http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1161211/dmc_devil_may_cry_were_not_just_a_bunch_of_monkeys_ninja_theory.html Also from the same site, an interview with the Ninja Theory's Tameem Antoniades and Capcom’s lead producer Alex Jones. Nowgamer Interview posted:The specific plot of DmC has been shrouded in mystery so far. Would you consider the game to be a direct reboot, or does it fall in line with the series canon? Nier beat you to it Ninja Theory Nowgamer Interview posted:Say what you will about Dante's appearance, it doesn't really matter if the game is good, right? Can you give us an insight into how Dante handles in the game, and which of his previous Devil May Cry iterations he falls most closely in line with, and why? And Bayonetta, the real heir the DMC throne, beat you to that as well. Nowgamer Interview posted:Combat is looking insanely deep, with tons of juggle and multi-weapon combos.What specific qualities did Capcom see in Ninja Theory that might have landed you the DmC job? Did you have to produce a proof of concept, or prototype to seal the deal? Excuse me for one moment...BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Nowgamer Interview posted:Cont. I think it's a pretty mixed bag all in all. I'll say one thing though, if this thing is good, yay for us. If it bombs, it'll bomb hard, and the impact is going to be loving hilarious.
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# ? Dec 19, 2011 01:05 |
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Pesky Splinter posted:I think it's a pretty mixed bag all in all. I'll say one thing though, if this thing is good, yay for us. If it bombs, it'll bomb hard, and the impact is going to be loving hilarious. Honestly this is pretty much how I feel. I wasn't nearly as negative about the early stuff as most people; I still think people who called Dante's original design "emo" in this were using a term they don't understand to describe a character they didn't like for silly reflexive reasons. I'm a little more critical of the impressions I've gotten from the gameplay, but I still think it has potential and frankly after Bayonetta I prefer something new to a canned DMC sequel. Bayonetta was a better, more interesting game than DMC4 both in terms of design and gameplay and I probably wouldn't even have bothered to play a generic DMC5. But if it sucks rear end and bombs hard, and it might, I'll be right there beside everyone else pointing and laughing at Ninja Theory for poo poo like this interview. EDIT: Also, I never played Enslaved but I thought people sort of liked it? Like the gameplay was more shallow than a DMC game but I seem to remember it being well-received on SA after it came out. Baku fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 19, 2011 |
# ? Dec 19, 2011 01:14 |