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King Hotpants posted:I think you pretty much nailed it. I think this is the best idea so far. As was already pointed out, the biggest thing about PAD failing is that the people who know photography and know what will improve a photo rarely post there, and instead post almost soley in SAD or the respective type of photo thread (Portraits, bands, etc). PAD right now is a place for new photographers to say "I'm new at this, but this is what I would do..." which isn't necessarily a bad thing, because it gets them thinking, but it's not ideal because it's like a bunch of blind people feeling in the dark and bumping into eachother. Eventually they will get somewhere, but it'd be nice to have some actual guidance from an experienced photographer. Having mandatory critiques in PAD and having SAD as an image dump only (no text) would cut out a whole lot of discussion, and I think what might happen is we get even less traffic than we do now. I like the idea of just encouraging discussion, not neccessarily hard critiques, and maybe the new PAD should have a strongly encouraged text rule, instead of mandatory critique. Even if it's just "I like this photo" or something really simple. I also like the idea of being able to critique your own photos counting as a critique, because as long as it's a well thought out critique, why shouldn't it? Thay way we avoid the obvious "I have to write something so uhh, I would crop it differently" responses about other people's work that we currently see in PAD. I'm as bad as any for not posting in PAD for many reasons. I loved what it was, and I tried to be active in it, but it is a lot of work to actively critique many photos, and not really get so many responses on your own. I found my work was overlooked often in PAD, and I resorted to SAD because it's a good indication of whether someone likes it or not. If it gets a lot of negative comments, clearly it's something I need to work on; if it's overlooked, I assume it is boring; and if it gets positive comments then I know it stood out from the crowd. So while SAD may not be the place for critique, there is a lot you can infer from how people respond to your photos, even if critique isn't mandatory there. SAD has also evolved into a place where if you post an actual technically imperfect snapshot, people rip it apart. SAD is the new PAD without the mandatory critiques already, so we might as well start over and have one thread for 'serious, I tried on this photo' photos, and another thread for honest snapshots that people should actually be discouraged from critiquing in.
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Dec 28, 2011 21:51
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ConfusedUs posted:The most banal and common of critique will be the "rules" critique. Rule of thirds! Don't chop off hands! You missed the focus! Overexposed! Underexposed! I would agree that there is a lot of this in PAD, and that it is a product of 2 different things: 1. The people who most often post photos in PAD are beginners and a lot of the time miss things like focus, over/under exposure, chopping off limbs awkwardly, etc. They are very basic rules, but to a beginner, they are invaluable (speaking as a recent beginner) 2. Again, because the people posting are new, they don't feel comfortable critiquing anything except basic rules. It's easy to say "I think this is underexposed" than to say "What was the purpose of this photo? The intent behind the photo isn't clear" because they most likely feel like the person posting the picture is way above their level. You see it time and time again people post "I'm new at this, so take it as you will" or "I don't really know much about photography, but..." Just as I would be intimidated to critique one of the really experienced, shooting for 10 years type photographers we see in SAD, I think most beginners are just intimidated to really dig in deep with their critiques. That and there have been a few people who aren't very receptive to critiques (not in PAD), which may add to the feeling of not wanting any backlash or starting an argument about "what is art" or something. It's safe, and it's easy for beginners to give. The reason why SAD gets higher quality photos is because the people who post there don't "need" critique - there's a ton of highly accomplished, talented photographers who don't need a newbie photographer telling them basic things to change. There are some very generous and awesome photographers who post critiques in PAD without posting their own photos (because they are awesome photographers), and I am super grateful for them, as their knowledge and time is so helpful to beginners. I know it takes time and effort to form a crit and that people are busy, so I really appreciate those that take the time to give their experience and talent to PAD. I wish more people would. I try and be active and give critiques past the basic rules, but I also look for critiques on my work, so it's a 2 way deal for me. I like to think that when I get to the level of other photographers here, I will continue to post in PAD. I don't think enforcing PAD the way we used to will change anything - we'll get less traffic than now, and it was a dying thread. I think it's fine as is, even though it's not ideal. Sometimes you don't get what you're looking for (a really in depth, well thought out crit), and sometimes you do, everyone just needs to deal with it. I also think that self critique is a very helpful tool, and even if the only critique you got was your own, at least you took the time to really put some thought into what you liked, and what you can change next time.
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Jan 9, 2012 05:54
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It's also still a perfectly valid criticism. Especially if I don't know your intent and whether it was a quick vacation snapshot or a honest try at a solid landscape. Sounds like we're getting really picky on what's "good" critique. With the dorkroom's track record of giving critique, we should be happy it's being given outside pad at all. I don't think we need to start specifying what counts as good critique and unacceptable critique outside of pad. Unless you're being like a super dick about it.
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Jul 10, 2012 16:17
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