The History Book Thread! looks like I need to set up space for a Nazi shelf

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The History Book Thread! looks like I need to set up space for a Nazi shelf

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smr: Dec 18, 2002

Shitshow posted:

I'm very much aware of it, which is why I wanted there to be an equal focus on civilizations that pre-date European colonialism.

Can't be, as the source material for that mostly doesn't exist.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2016 06:18

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 10:19

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Quixotic1 posted:

That book man, that book made me glad I'm not a drinking man. If there's one glimmer of hope in that torrid time, its was that I learned of the actions of Roger Casement, E. D. Morel, and George Washington Williams.

I read King Leopold's Ghost, The Fate of Africa: A History of the Continent Since Independence, and Dancing In The Glory of Monsters all in the same year. I haven't had a shred of hope for this species since.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2016 20:35

smr: Dec 18, 2002

sbaldrick posted:

Read Gotham, which is a history of the early part of New York City.

Seconded. That book was fantastic, though the never-appearance of the promised Volume 2 makes me sad.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2016 01:20

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Minenfeld! posted:

Are there any good books out there that give a general history of the black death?

I enjoyed https://www.amazon.com/Great-Mortal...the+black+death quite a bit. Readable, fast, up to date.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2016 23:15

smr: Dec 18, 2002

EricD posted:

I have four works to strongly recommend for any appreciator of military history.

The first is John Keegan's The Face of Battle. This landmark work studies the battles of Agincourt, Waterloo and the Somme, to try to understand battle from the perspective of those who fought in them. It attempts to understand warfare on the level of its practical mechanics, how closely troops were spaced, how different types of weapons affected troops, how bodies of troops interacted with one another. John Keegan was really the first military historian I know of to try to get down to what you might call the physics of battle. In doing so, it describes battle from the soldier's point of view, with a deep sympathy for all people affected by war. Absolutely a tremendous work.

Second, Alistair Horne's To Lose A Battle. This is the authoritative book on the Battle of France in 1940. It starts long before 1940, beginning in 1919 with the Treaty of Versailles and France victorious over a broken Germany. It traces how the French Army stagnated and declined from the superb weapon of 1918 into the rusty implement of 1940, and traces how the German Army recovered from its collapse in the interwar period and laid the foundations for its future military success. When war finally comes, Horne covers the conflict from the quarrels in high command all the way down to the experiences of private soldiers on a day by day, sometimes hour by hour account of the Fall of France. Horne does not just address the how's but digs into the why's of French failure and German success. Anyone who wishes to understand that Fall, perhaps the most decisive of German victories and crushing of Allied defeats in the Second World War, would do well to read this book.

Finally, my last recommendations are a pair. Dreadnought and Castles of Steel, both by Robert K. Massie. The first book covers the political and diplomatic situations in Britain and Germany in the years before the outbreak of the First World War. Dreadnought focuses on the naval arms race between the Royal Navy and the German Navy, the technological developments that led to the all-big gun dreadnought battleship and its cousin the battlecruiser, and the political developments that brought Britain and Germany, once close allies against the French, into strategic rivalry with each other. Dreadnought ends with the British declaration of war on Germany in August of 1914. This is where Castles of Steel picks up, with an in-depth account of the naval theatre of the First World War. Massie covers all the major engagements, with a multi-chapter discussion of the climactic (some would say anti-climactic) Battle of Jutland and its outcome and strategic effects. Castles of Steel also covers the German submarine campaign, Allied efforts to counter it, and its effect on American diplomacy and the American entrance into the war. Both of these books are highly readable and worthwhile individually, but they work best when read as a pair.

Are... are you me?

Keegan was a revelation to me in college, I was introduced to him and Tuchman at about the same time and devoured their bibliographies in a hurry. Horne might be my favorite historian going; I read his Seven Ages of Paris on a Hawaiian vacation and it was just a lovely book to have on that jaunt. He writes _so_ _well_.

Massie is always a commitment but over the last two years I've read the two you've listed, plus his biographies of The Greats, Peter and Catherine. I found the naval books to be better reads, I struggled with the overwhelming weight of detail the latter shoves at the reader across a variety of topics, whereas Castles and Dreadnaught have at least the Navy thing for him to hang a specific hook onto. I'm curious to see how Simon Sebag Montefiore's new book on the entire Romanov dynasty compares to the collected Massie books on the topic, I find Montefiore to be the superior author in general.

But yeah, all of the authors you mentioned, regardless of the quibbles more recent research and attitudes can make some of their works when viewed from today, are still totally valid works and hold up really well. And, at least in Horne and Keegan's case, are models of how academic historians should write for a non-academic audience, just wonderfully written books.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2016 22:12

smr: Dec 18, 2002

EricD posted:

I'm a massive nerd for military history in general, and the naval theatres of the World Wars is one particular interest. I had read many books on the naval theatre of the Second World War (Shattered Sword by Johnathan Parshall is by far the best on the Battle of Midway), but I discovered Massie's accounts of the dreadnought arms race and the naval theatre last year and found them to be extremely good works. I would agree that they are commitments as you say, they're both tomes, but there is a ton of good information in there for the scholar and they are both readable for the layman as well.

I picked up Keegan and Horne just this month, finding both of those books and Dave Grossman's On Killing (which I haven't read yet) at a used book store for the excellent combined price of $30.00. I devoured The Face of Battle, as I am a HEMA practitioner and an archaeologist by education and that sort of stuff about the practical mechanics and physics of battle is deeply interesting to me. I am about a third of the way into To Lose A Battle, and I thoroughly agree on the quality of Horne's writing. There are many academics who are brilliantly insightful and educated on their topics but cannot write worth a drat, and there are many persuasive and vivid writers who know nothing. Alistair Horne manages to combine excellent writing and thorough research and understanding.

Shattered Sword was great; have you read The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors? I found that to be in the same vein and an outstanding read on a pretty obscure subset of what most people just assume was an overwhelming American victory.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2016 17:53

smr: Dec 18, 2002

vyelkin posted:

Found out my local secondhand bookstore has a bunch of Robert K. Massie books, what's the general opinion about him around here?

Pretty high; I've read a couple of his. They're pretty big investments in terms of time, and I really hope you like the minutiae of how various members of the minor aristocracy relate to one another, but I still recommend them, particularly Dreadnaught and Castle of Steel, and the one on Peter the Great.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2016 22:36

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Is there a good, single-volume history of The Netherlands?

# ¿ Nov 22, 2016 19:25

smr: Dec 18, 2002

vyelkin posted:

The Spanish Holocaust by Paul Preston is the best book I've read on the Spanish Civil War. It's like 700 pages though.

Seconded, but it focuses heavily on specifically people killed for political reasons and how that all went down, not so much on the war itself. He does have a straight-up history of the Spanish Civil War available as well that should probably be read before the Holocaust book as the latter assumes a decent amount of familiarity with the progress of the war itself. I'd recommend reading Preston's Civil War history first or at least Beevor's (which is shorter and less academic but a fine intro to the topic).

# ¿ Dec 19, 2016 17:43

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Cythereal posted:

Got Hornfischer's new book, The Fleet At Flood Tide for Christmas, and finished it this morning. It's an interesting book, but I think it's a step down from his previous works - I think Hornfischer isn't the best at talking about large-scale campaigns in the course of one book, and this one tried to cover the Marianas campaign, Okinawa, Iwo Jima, the bombing campaign against the Home Islands, and the atomic bomb, plus the fleet and air battles along the way and looking at the cost to civilians and how the Pacific war turned into one of total war culminating in the atomic bombs.

Still interesting, still a reasonably good book, but I think Hornfischer was better concentrating on one specific battle rather than expanding his focus to full campaigns.

By any chance have you read Ian Toll's books on the same topic? I finished Hornfischer's "Neptune's Inferno" a while ago and have The Fleet at Flood Tide in the queue, but I'm wondering if Toll's take on the topic is better as I've heard roughly the same criticism you're making here of the second volume elsewhere as well.

# ¿ Dec 28, 2016 21:20

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Cythereal posted:

I have not. Hornfischer also has Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, which is excellent and describes one of the most moments in the history of the US Navy.

That was the first of his I read and yes, was excellent. But also reinforces the point that he's a better writer when he's closer to the deck.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2016 03:40

smr: Dec 18, 2002

lifts cats over head posted:

I like reading about both food and history. I'm mostly interested in reading about the roles food and/or cooking play on culture or historical events. The only books I've read that is in this specific category is The History of the World in Six Glasses by Tom Standage and The Story of Sushi: An Unlikely Saga of Raw Fish and Rice, by Trevor Corson . I've added a few books to my 2017 reading list but I'm looking for more (or opinions on the ones I'm planning on reading). The books currently on the to-read list are:

Food in History, by Reay Tannahill

Consider the Fork: A History of How We Cook and Eat, by Bee Wilson

An Edible History of Humanity, by Tom Standage

Any other suggestions or opinions on that list?

I can vouch for Consider the Fork; enjoyed it quite a bit, it's a fast and engaging read.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2017 04:00

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Fork of Unknown Origins posted:

Salt by Mike Kurlansky might be good too although I haven't read it myself so I can't say for sure.

"Salt" was a fun read. Kurlansky has a gift for making these mundane things narratively exciting. His book on Cod was downright thrilling. He's good at this.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2017 20:45

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Cyrano4747 posted:

Eh, I re-read Salt on a vacation a couple years back and I wasn't super impressed.

Don't get me wrong, it's good beach reading. He does a good job of describing stuff. I've got a pretty vivid memory of his description of Chinese salt monopolies and production methods, and I re-read it a while ago.

What kind of got me is he doesn't seem to have much of an argument. Just "here's this really important thing we use all the time, now let me tell you how people produced it over the last 2000 years."

What argument would you want? "No, salt sucks and never should have gotten this important!"? I mean... it is what it is, there's not a lot of controversy to be generated by it. An engaging retelling of its history is enjoyable on its own without forcing some kind of argument into the tale.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2017 23:34

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Minenfeld! posted:

The Vanquished by Robert Gerwarth is a good book on the aftermath of the first world war. The Dark Valley by Piers Brendon is a survey of the 1930s in several countries that were major players at the time. I second Paxton's Anatomy of Fascism.

Just finished "The Vanquished" and yeah, it's a very solid overview of an under-covered era. Real fuckin' grim, tho'.

I read "The Dark Valley" years ago and recall it being quite good as well.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2017 20:22

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Kuiperdolin posted:

Also Greek Revolution happened after Gibbon's passing.

Yeah, that was a early-mid 19th Century thing. In Gibbons' time, the Greeks were just quiet peasants backwatering away under centuries of Ottoman rule.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2017 19:02

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Tommy_Udo posted:

Also gotta jump on the bandwagon and recommend Wilson's Thirty Years War . Best book written on the subject.

nth-ing. Phenomenal read.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2017 21:26

smr: Dec 18, 2002

bessantj posted:

Any recommendations on a good book on the history of France?

That's... quite a wide topic, there. I don't know of a good single-volume book in English that really covers the totality of French history.

If I were asked to recommend a single work of French history for the non-specialist, I think I'd probably go with "Seven Ages of Paris" by Alistair Horne. Yeah, it focuses on Paris but you get a good sense of the entire country's flow through the seven focal periods Horne writes about in this work. And it's just such a wonderfully-written book. From there, pick whichever age interested you the most and then it gets easier to recommend books specific to those eras.

# ¿ May 23, 2017 19:50

smr: Dec 18, 2002

COOL CORN posted:

Any recommendations for books on the Korean War? Preferably with audiobook counterparts

I don't do audiobooks at all, so can't help you there, but I read Brothers At War by Sheila Miyoshi Jager sometime last year and it was very good in that it focused more on internal Korean politics and agency on both sides than it did American and Chinese intentions, which seems to be the focus of most books in this area. For that American/military perspective, Halberstam's The Coldest Winter did the job well.

Between the two of those, I feel reasonably covered on the Korean War.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 16:11

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Vivian Darkbloom posted:

I've been working through it. It's not bad for what it is, but I think any history book with such a gigantic scope is forced to miss so much of the interesting details.

It�s a good overview. He also did one on India, which I liked a lot because I knew so little going into it. Spun me off into more targeted books, felt like it gave me a better background to understand those more targeted works. China will do the same if you�re mostly unfamiliar with it all.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2017 01:00

smr: Dec 18, 2002

a7m2 posted:

Thanks all!

Has anyone read the individual volumes? I'm wondering if they're worth getting or just sticking with the abridged version

*raises hand*

Chicago library had them all like 15 years ago when I had heard about them and I (slowly) got through like one a year over three years-ish. Immense amount of detail, but he�s a good writer and I enjoyed them. He�s got some weird gender role issues that pop up in his treatment of Theodora (this also really stood out for me with his Sicily book) but not that terrible to set aside as he�s like fuckin� 96 or something now. Basically, it�s a lot less bad than, say, Procopius�s issues with the same.

If you got the time to invest, there�s not a better read than this trilogy on the topic. I believe I followed it with The Ottoman Centuries to get the full sweep but that book made much less of an impression on me.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2017 04:26

smr: Dec 18, 2002

COOL CORN posted:

I finally got The War of Wars, and it's nearly as thick as it is wide. The thing's a drat cube.

Yeah, but worth it. Save for some odd analysis of Napoleon's gender and sexuality, I enjoyed that book quite a bit.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2017 20:21

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Badger of Basra posted:

Can anyone recommend one of Foner's various editions and books on Reconstruction? Amazon's got quite a few and I wasn't sure which to pick.

https://www.amazon.com/Reconstructi...ords=eric+foner

That's the one you want, the updated 2014 edition of Reconstruction.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2017 21:14

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Minenfeld! posted:

I second Dikotter's two books. They seem to be the most up-to-date works.

Thriced.

The first in the series is worth it as well, The Tragedy of Liberation.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2017 20:55

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Megasabin posted:

I started off with a plan to read about the Ancient Levant, but just kept working my way backwards in history, until I just decided I would read about about the earliest humans --> hunter gatherers --> first civilizations --> Ancient Levant (Akkad, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, etc...) --> Other major civilizations in that time period in different parts of the world.

So far I've read Hunting Apes-- Meat and The Origin of Human Behavior about the development of social behavior, and The Mind and the Cave, which was about cave art & the development of human consciousness. I've moved on to a book about the lifeways of Hunter's Gatherers.

I'd like to start collecting books for down the line. So far the only other one I have on my list is 1177 BC The Year Civilization Collapsed by Eric Cline.

Any suggestions?

This goes a little later than that, but I REALLY REALLY liked:

https://www.amazon.com/Egypt-Greece-Rome-Civilizations-Mediterranean/dp/0199263647

for when you're ready to move into that era. The best survey history of that era/those civilizations I've read.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2017 17:21

smr: Dec 18, 2002

algebra testes posted:

Anyone got any feelings about the History of England books by Peter Ackroyd? Not going to lie, even though it wasn't these books in particular, Duncan Jones talking about his dad really liking Peter Ackroyd got me interested.

I enjoyed them just fine. They'll ground you in the basics of each era the books each cover, which will serve you well if you decide to dive into books that go deeper into particular topics from those eras. It's a solid generalist history.

# ¿ Jan 1, 2018 22:07

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Ron Jeremy posted:

I enjoyed that one a great deal. I also like �This Vast Southern Empire� covering around the same period.

Thirded, that was a great book. Been working through the entire series and just picked up The Republic For Which It Stands, which finally came out. Looking forward to a wider view over the Reconstruction Era than the very good but laser-focused Foner book had. And the Gilded Age stuff beyond that era. If it's as good as What Hath God Wrought, I'm in for a treat.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2018 19:40

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:

update: this series is good as hell, extremely dense, and avoids many purple prose pitfalls history authors can fall into

i left the first book with an unreasonably intricate understanding of the early 1300's in france and england

no other history comes close to this level of detail, the book goes decision by decision for every major player of the era, if there are things that aren't included in this book I highly doubt they exist. The bibliography is 47 pages long.

the book is 600 pages, it's the first in a series of 5, the fourth one just released in 2015 coinciding with the 600th anniversary of agincourt

it is fulfilling in the same way that 'the name of the rose' is fulfilling, you will have to reread sections over and over because of the density of the text. you will have to learn some basic french terminology. you will need a map of france near you at all times if you don't know where gascony or flanders is because of how frequently they're mentioned.

this is the dark souls of historical nonfiction

I feel like this post is going to make me make a commitment I'm going to end up taking more seriously than my marriage vows. Goddamn.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2018 16:42

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Beef Hardcheese posted:

It's been a long time since I read it, but I liked "Kitchen Literacy" by Ann Vileisis. It covers a lot of that sort of thing, such as in advertisements and packaging, for example how modern canned foods feature packaging featuring farms and rural areas to evoke an image unlike the reality of industrialized factory farming. This is basically the exact opposite of advertisements when canned foods were new, which focused on the image and ideas of science and factories cleaning and sanitizing the dirty grubby fruits and vegetables.

"Cod" by Mark Kurlansky focuses on the fish in the northern Atlantic, and talks a bit about the impact of fishing on various cultures (one example, it was a cheap source of protein that slaveowners in the Carribean could feed the slaves, and thus cod fishing indirectly helped maintain slavery). He also wrote "The Big Oyster" which is like a history of New York City as seen through the lens of "oysters as a resource". You may also be interested in "Salt", but it's a lot more global in scale.

"Salt" and "Cod" were both very informative, entertaining reads. Kurlansky may be a one-trick pony, but it's a great trick ("Paper" was very good, too, but obviously not about food).

# ¿ Mar 29, 2018 22:21

smr: Dec 18, 2002

buglord posted:

Consider the Fork by Bee Wilson is an oddly entertaining book about the history of cooking utensils and methods. Sometimes a few topics overstay their welcome, but the content is far more interesting than youd expect on a historical book about forks and chopsticks and copper pans.

Seconded, I really enjoyed the heck out of that one.

"If Walls Could Talk: An Intimate History of the Home" by Lucy Worsley does the same but for the typical English home over the centuries. I'm reeeeeeeeal glad I live when I do.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2018 22:48

smr: Dec 18, 2002

EoinCannon posted:

I read Dikötters first two on the great leap forward and cultural revolution. I enjoyed them as someone who knows nothing of that period. I think the controversy is mostly around his high estimates of numbers of deaths but I'm not across the debate really.

Concurred; I've read all three and his sourcing is really goddamned strong, and explained in exhaustive detail where it cannot be. And they're about the best you can get in English that goes into deep detail on those three eras.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2018 02:25

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Gleri posted:

I�m traveling to India in the fall and I�ve realized I know very little about Indian history. I�ve found books on Partition but I�m more interested in earlier history: the Raj, the British East India Company, the Mughals and further back. I haven�t had a lot of luck even on the nineteenth century piece let alone anything earlier. Anyone have any recommendations?

I have a background in academic history so I don�t mind dense as long as it�s well written.

John Keay's "India" is about as good as a one-volume survey of Indian history as you can get.

The Chaos of Empire: The British Raj and the Conquest of India by Jon Wilson is a deep dive into that part of Indian history, and Wilson thinks the British were loving scumbags top to bottom in how they went about conquering and governing India (he's not wrong). Good read, pretty enraging book.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2018 23:01

smr: Dec 18, 2002

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Sound like he's just got an axe to grind.

It's a pretty well-sourced axe. I wouldn't let it be the only book I read about the topic, but I can't argue with the factual retelling itself. Some of the interpretation of motive might be dispute-able but he sources his arguments well.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2018 22:42

smr: Dec 18, 2002

vyelkin posted:

Yeah this is a legit good book, both accessible to non-specialists and still with a good level of academic rigour.

Thirded. Not as depressing as some other books I've read on Russian history, but had its own level of crushing sadness.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2018 19:07

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Epicurius posted:

Try Robert Gerwaith's, "The Vanquished".

This. Probably the best single-volume that focuses specifically on this topic.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2019 23:00

smr: Dec 18, 2002

1994 Toyota Celica posted:

Andrew Wheatcroft's The Enemy at the Gate: Hapsburgs, Ottomans and the Battle For Europe, focuses on the siege of Vienna in 1683 but spends a good long stretch laying out the process of Ottoman expansion in the Balkans. Excellent use of primary sources from contemporary travelers and the old Hapsburg war archives.

That was a very good read both on the broader requested topic and for the event in question. For Ottoman history in general, which is just... fascinating overall, and which also covers the requested topic in good detail, I really, really enjoyed Osman's Dream by Caroline Finkel. Great one-volume history of the Ottoman Empire top to bottom.

# ¿ May 22, 2019 16:20

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Solaris 2.0 posted:

So I�m going to Korea in two months and I�m actually rather ignorant about the Korean War outside the American perspective.

I took a glance on Amazon but all the books I saw were either about individual battles or focused on the Americans. I�m looking for something that also takes the Korean (either North or South) into account.

For example I read �Embers of War� recently and really enjoyed how the author took into account both the VietMinh and French perspectives with critical analysis so wondering if something similar for the Korean War?

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18378010-brothers-at-war

Brothers At War does this pretty well, IMO. Obviously the Americans and Chinese play huge roles, but the book is concerned most with the Korean perspective of events.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2019 00:28

smr: Dec 18, 2002

King Leopold's Ghost just... just absolutely wrecked me for like a week.

I'll second all of the Kurlansky books that were mentioned; something mind-relaxing about well-written deep dives into the history of something seemingly innocuous that actually fundamentally altered how civilizations happened.

I also want to note that I love/hate this thread because I only pop in every couple of months but every time I do I end up dropping a hondo on amazon.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2019 00:28

smr: Dec 18, 2002

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

Seconding this as a history book and a basic financial literacy 'what is a bond and a derivative' book that's very well written. Niall Ferguson has gone off the rails a bit since then, but Ascent of Money is very good and not long.

It's more about international trade than bankers but "A Splendid Exchange: How trade shaped the world" by William Bernstein is a pretty awesome book that covers trade (and also colonization, especially re: european chartered trade companies) from ancient Egypt to present and really focuses on how for much of the past 2000 years at least, India/the Indian ocean was the engine of world trade. He has some really neat historical anecdotes-one about barbers in mexico city in the 1600s asking the government for protection from immigrant Chinese barbers undercutting their prices springs to mind. The world has been smaller for longer than we often realize.

I can second "A Splendid Exchange"; found it a very engrossing read on what would seem a pretty dry topic.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2019 23:52

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 10:19

smr: Dec 18, 2002

sbaldrick posted:

No, it's so bad it caused me to create a new personal idea of pre-colonial nostalgia. Which is basically the idea that pre colonial societies weren't brutal Empires or states in their own right.

gently caress, really? It's in my unread pile.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2020 02:14

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The History Book Thread! looks like I need to set up space for a Nazi shelf

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