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GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Brownie posted:

Yeah, precisely. It's never worked on my PC either... despite trying it several times.

Wait, what are you people doing? I just installed RSRBR for the first time three weeks ago and it went:

1) Download Core Pack, Run Installer.
2) Download Track Pack, Run Installer.
3) Download Car Pack, Run Installer.

I didn't have to do anything else.

And it's totally worth it for the function to start any track with any surface you want alone. Hate the tarmac in France? Just drive on gravel!

Edit:
I don't have to use CamHack either, this works just fine:

GhostDog fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Feb 4, 2012

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GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Capn Payne posted:

Am I doing something wrong or do you have to load the game from scratch each time you do a race? This rules apart from that.

The Launcher is to facilitate online play, it collects track times and so on. The modding itself is done by moving files around, that means it replaces the original game files temporarily with user made cars/tracks. You can use "Launch Richard Burns Rally SSE" to launch into the game proper, with the car pack and surface mod you selected. I don't know where a selected user track would show up in the RBR menus though.

The other two launchers, "Go" and "Launch RSRBR", drop you directly on the track with the car you selected and back to the launcher once the race is over. The only difference here is that the latter allows you to watch the replay first. Also note that in both of those modes the game will not save changes done to your ingame profile.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Why is it so hard to make a good rally sim? Was there some kind of one-in-a-billion genius working on RBR? If yes, where is he now? Hiding in some monastery high up in the Himalayas, guarding his secrets? There hasn't been a good rally game in ten. loving. years. Just remake RBR already and add driving aids like every simmy racing game does these days.

I'm angry. Angry about racing on gravel.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
I have the CSR wheel, the pedals and the shifter set. Of these I only regret the shifter set. It feels cheap and you have to do some home-made modding to get it to stop being annoyingly loud.

Edit: This weekend I dusted of the wheel for the first time in a year since putting my 360 and Forza4 away. I tried out Assetto Corsa and I think once that's released properly I need a 3-screen setup or preferably a Rift. The FFB is amazing compared to Forza4, although the "weight" seems to vary wildly from car to car. The differences seem a bit pretty extreme. Is or will there be a way to save FFB presets per car?

GhostDog fucked around with this message at 19:24 on May 11, 2014

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

CaseFace McGee posted:

Well, many real cars feel different from each other... a modern GT racer will have a very different feel compared to an old M3. I use the same settings on all cars except for drift cars, which have their own setup with only 600 degree steering and other tweaks like that. I haven't noticed anything so extreme that I have needed to adjust settings in AC.

Maybe I just got to get used to it a bit more, but at 80 FFB ingame (100 on the wheel) turning the E30 is real work while the E30 Group A feels like a feather.

Edit: There is no way to get into Project Cars at the moment, right? Because it seems to have a Caterham :syoon:

GhostDog fucked around with this message at 19:56 on May 11, 2014

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Thanks. Just finished setting up again, gonna play with the settings a bit more. I already realized that I accidently had the drift setting on the wheel on 3, I normally have that off so that probably didn't help with the feel.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Found settings I like and then spent an hour and a half just driving the 312t around. Really enjoying that bumpy approach to the two (medium) fast corners on Magione.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Played around with Assetto some more and finally figured out my issue with the FF (this is on my CSR) after realizing there's an FF meter in the "Pedals" UI element. Turns out the E30 Group A starts clipping somewhat seriously at 100% gain and sits comfortable at 90%, while the normal E30 sits right at 60% and beyond 70% is pretty much permanently clipping in every corner, at which point it feels like a constant strong counterforce with no further information left. In fact, those clipping thresholds seems to be consistent for all production (~70%) and race cars (~100%) I tried. So either 60% is where it should be for my wheel and the race cars are supposed to be that light, or - my guess - it's a byproduct of road vs. race tires?

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

CaseFace McGee posted:

That's a FF meter? I was wondering what that was.

Why would they have so many cars set up to clip the force feedback level so easily by default?

Maybe it's something on my side? I do have the latest driver and firmware though, so I wouldn't know what else it could be. You have a Standard CSR too, right? Does yours show the same behaviour?

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
I tried the rFactor2 demo and the game feels all weird. Maybe it's just that I generally only play RWD and the demo is FWD? Has anyone who plays AC with a Fanatec CSR been able to dial the FFB in to a point where it feels satisfactory? That's really it for me - I don't know what's "realistic", I just know what feels right to me, and ever since I found the right setup on AC for me every other game I tried with the exception of RBR just feels wrong :(


In somewhat older news that I haven't seen here (or missed), AC gets some Alfa love:

Alfa Romeo 4C
Alfa Romeo GTA
Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI :dance:

Also, apparently the Kunos licensing dude posted on his Facebook last week that they have about 40 cars still to unveil?

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

CaseFace McGee posted:

AC needs some more interesting tracks to go with all of those cars.

Agreed. I do hope the mod community goes beyond quick and mostly bad conversions at some point. Although there are 4 or 5 tracks out there that are quite good.

CaseFace McGee posted:

I haven't really messed with FF for a while, but I've got AC and rF2 both where I like them. I don't think I really did much to AC, it was pretty decent out of the box for me. About the only thing I do is adjust the overall FF strength, due to the discussion a while back. I had been unknowingly maxing out my FF, and I needed to turn down the gain for a few cars.

I think most FWD cars feel funny in racing sims, because I also primarily drive RWD and kinda suck with front wheel drive. I have played with the FF a lot in rF2, and I think that game has the best feeling FF. I'll do some races in iRacing, or try not to get killed by the AI in Assetto Corsa, but I always go back to rF2 because it feels best to me.

Thanks. Maybe next time I feel I have too much money I just risk it and throw some at rF2. Who makes an FWD only demo anyway? Idiots.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

365 Nog Hogger posted:

It's the new one. :(

Now that was a true disappointment just now. It reminds me though, given the iconic sound of the S1, have the improvements to the sound engine materialized yet?

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
That release candidate doesn't convince me at all. Trento is ugly and bland as gently caress, and the new sound engine - I don't know, but crashing into something sounds like someone dropping some jenga blocks in a echoey room.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Ringo Star Get posted:

Chiming in to say that Game Stock Car is a great game. Great tracks and good physics.

Agreed. Got it when it showed up on Steam yesterday and it's really loving good. Anybody looking for offline RACING needs to give it a try.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
I prefer the driving in Assetto Corsa to anything else I tried but racing the AI is a terrible experience (I really hope 1.1 brings the promised improvements). Stock Car's offline racing is great.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Torabi posted:

Well then, I feel stupid now. But at the same time, why the gently caress is -100% the default setting. I took it down to +50% and started playing, wasn't as bad then. But maybe that's why I had such a hard time driving in a straight line. :v:

I think a lot of wheels need negative values with gMotor games. My Fanatec does too.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Every time I watch a pCars video my impression is that it's what Codemasters would be doing today if they evolved the original TOCA series instead of going full arcade. It just has that vibe for me, idk.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
I think I'll give Raceroom another try, but last time I checked the cars just felt weird and there was nothing between grip and no grip. Just okay okay okay okay YOU'RE GONE.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Does anyone know if it's possible to edit the location names in rFactor2 to their real names?

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
I've been trying the Peyregrosse-Mandagout track and now I really miss a "reset to track" option in Assetto Corsa. Also that mod might not have the highest res textures but in terms of attention to detail and just overall look it puts Kunos' Trento to shame. And while we're on the subject of Trento, are there any improvements planned or is that really supposed to be 1.0?

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
I've been thinking the OP is a bit outdated, too wordy (imo) on some games while not at all mentioning others, so I've been working on something short and concise along these lines:

quote:

----------- WHAT IS SIM RACING? -----------

(copied from old OP)

This is a bit of a philosophical question. But long story short, a sim focuses on the physics of the car first with graphics, career mode, accessibility, collection etc coming in second if at all. Whereas a game focuses on graphics/collection etc first. This is very much a scale with no hard line saying what is and isn't a sim. But its generally accepted among sim racers that the games featured here have a more accurate driving experience then GT5 or Forza 4.




----------- CURRENT SIMS -----------




Assetto Corsa

http://www.assettocorsa.net

Assetto Corsa left early access in December 2014 but is still very much a work in progress. The AI especially leaves a lot to be desired, so this is more of a driving and not a racing simulator right now. AC prides itself on highly accurate tracks and in general the official content (with few exceptions) is spot on and done when released. Currently there is no weather or night racing, track conditions can be selected but are fixed for the duration of the race. It's highly moddable and currently seems to attract the biggest community, though many tracks right now are somewhat half-assed ports from older sims.




iRacing

http://www.iracing.com

iRacing bills itself as a subscription-based service, as such it comes with high costs for the subscription itself as well as for content packs, but if you're serious about a proper online racing simulation it's really your only choice. No mod content obviously. Has basically every feature on the list, weather, dynamic grip buildup, night racing, whatever you want.




Project CARS

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/

To be released in April. Slightly Mad Studios previously developed the "Need for Speed Shift" series under the boot of Electronic Arts, for Project CARS they went their own way with a self-funded/crowd-funded model. The graphics are absolutely gorgeous, the track accuracy less so. Has an actual career mode, something you don't see too often in PC sims or as an afterthought at best. Features the prettiest rain and night racing you've ever seen in a racing game. So far no word on modability, but not much is expected on that front right now.




RaceRoom Racing Experience

http://game.raceroom.com/

Developed by SimBin who did some of the best sims last generation on the isiMotor2 (i.e. rFactor1) engine, RaceRoom is built on their own engine and is Free-To-Play with purchasable content packs generally build around specific racing series. Reception initially was mixed but has been improving, there seems to be no doubt though that if nothing else it has the best sound out there.




rFactor2

http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/

The sim with a pedigree. rFactor 1 (or rather it's underlying isiMotor2 engine) was the platform for years. rFactor2 started development in 2009 and had some trouble getting off the ground but has been improving quite a lot recently. The official content varies in quality and is very much in flux, not the least because the long development time means rFactor2 is a bit in a state of catch-up in terms of technology, at least graphically. rFactor2 features "real road" technology, i.e. rubber/grip accumulates dynamically on the racing line. Weather as well as night racing are in but still being tweaked. Highly moddable but the community hasn't grown to rFactor 1 sizes yet due to the slow/shaky start.




(Game) Stock Car Extreme

http://game-stockcar.com.br/?lang=en

Game Stock Car Extreme (recently renamed to Stock Car Extreme after the move to Steam) is a sim about brazilian stock car racing - wait, don't go! First off, this is not oval racing, it's more like V8 supercars on tracks you never heard of aside from Interlagos. Probably the last hurrah of the isiMotor2 engine and without a doubt the farthest it's ever been pushed, Stock Car Extreme is considered (by all of the two dozen people who gave it a try) to be a fantastic offline racing experience and probably the most complete package you can get right now, no weather though. Since it's isiMotor2 it's very moddable and you can find a lot of the rFactor1 tracks already converted to GSCE. Included in the low price are some other series, like for example the best F1 experience you can have right now provided you hunt down enough F1 tracks.




----------- OLDER SIMS -----------

<working on it>




----------- WHEELS -----------


People will tell you that you can play this or that game with a controller totally fine. That's because they haven't tried a wheel yet. Or they didn't do so for long enough, because chances are the first hour or three with a wheel you're going to suck at driving. But once you're in you'll never want to go back. Also, if you get a wheel set it up properly, don't put it on you 20 inch high wheeled coffee table, sit hunched over it on an old rickety lawn chair and then complain that wheels suck. If you don't have the space to do it right save your money. And don't underestimate the value of good pedals.

Entry level:

- Logitech Driving Force GT
- Logitech Driving Force Pro

What most people use, these cost anywhere between 200 and 500 dollars depending on peripherals:

- Logitech G27
- Fanatec CSR
- Fanatec Porsche
- Thrustmaster T500

High end, up to a 1000 dollars:

- Fanatec CSW

Beyond that you go into direct drive wheels, which are a whole other level but the cheapest right now I think is the Accuforce for 1750 dollars, without pedals. So yeah.




----------- SETTING UP FORCE FEEDBACK -----------

A guide for rFactor2, but most of it applies to other sims as well: http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/19034-Guide-Optimal-FFB-settings-for-rFactor-2-The-key-to-being-in-the-Zone-D

The amount of "recommended setups" I found out there for my wheel that clip like crazy is astounding. If you're serious about your wheel spent a day really digging into this. I did only recently and now that I have at least some understanding of what I'm doing when setting up FFB my experience has much improved. Still haven't found the right settings to make RaceRoom feel right though...




----------- RESSOURCES -----------

(copied from old OP)

http://www.iracing.com/inracingnews/ : Best place for general news in the simracing world. Very iRacing centric however.

http://www.insidesimracing.tv/ : Less iRacing centric (but still owned more or less by iracing) and an excellent place to find hardware/software reviews and videos. This is probably the best website to start at.

http://www.racedepartment.com/ : A more eurocentric and less iRacing focused news source. This is an excellent start for those interested in finding a league.

http://racesimcentral.com/ : once the old stalwart but has run into trouble over the years. Still an excellent news source.

What do you think? Right direction? English is not my first language, so grammar nazis are welcome.

GhostDog fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Feb 24, 2015

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Jehde posted:

Looks good so far to me. GPL should probably be in the old sims section, as well as RBR with RSRBR. Rfactor 1 might be worth a mention too since it got greenlit. I might make an effortpost in the new thread currating some of the most notable content mods for AC, since mods are really what AC is all about.

Noted. Which reminds me I have to reinstall RSRBR since 2015 just came out.

tater_salad posted:

Toss nascar 2003 in for the best nascar racing offline.. sadly all the newer versions are hunks of crap.. heres to 11 year old graphics and racing back to the line. But driving and ai mechanics arent completely bugged to the point of being pants on head awful.

Wanna write three sentences about it? I know nothing about Nascar and frankly I don't care ;)


I'll probably finalize it this weekend and post it once more in here and then we'll see.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Combat Pretzel posted:

What's this poo poo about track accuracy with PCARS? People have been picking their poo poo apart over the development of these, and SMS has kept fixing these issues. Is it because it's not laser scanned?

Having not played it myself I relied on what I perceived to be general concesus. If that isn't the case (or not anymore) I'll take that part out. I'm not here to poo poo on anything, I'm just trying to give a reasonable overview of what to expect from the different sims.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Alright, I'll leave that track remark out of the next version.

Regarding physics: I'm not into that whole discussion, it never leads anywhere and with FFB added the whole thing becomes so much about subjective feel anyway. Not that Burnout isn't clearly Arcade, some objective statements are possible in this world, but... you know.

Personally I find for most of these games there are car/track combinations where I think it's the best thing ever and other combinations where it feels like crap.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
So I'm looking into the availability of RBR and apparently you can get a digital copy here. However I found some forum posts questioning the legality of them selling the game. Still, unless they hacked in some kind of DRM you might not care either way.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
iRacing is the one I haven't tried out yet because of the time and money commitment and my inability do deal with the combination of racing pressure and people taking that stuff very very seriously. I'd be eternally afraid of accidentally bumping into someone :(

Is there a sizeable goon community doing some more laid back racing?

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Driving around at 20 mph going WOAHWOAHWOAH

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Back in the day a friend and me where stopped at a traffic light in the dead of the night and at some point he turned to me and asked me how long we've been sitting there, listening to music, watching the light change color. I couldn't say.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
New OP proposal incoming.

Any help would be appreciated.

I think there should be one Nascar game in there. What would that be? And what about the Codemasters F1 games, do they deserve a mention?

Any tech wizards have something to say about my undertanding of FFB?

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
CONTENTS:

- Introduction
- Current Sims
- Older Sims
- Wheels
- Force Feedback
- Other Hardware
- Would you like to know more?
- Mods




So what's the difference between sims and other racing games?

Extremely broadly speaking:

- A more authentic driving and/or racing experience with cars feeling as true to their real counterparts as possible, on accurate representations of real world tracks.

Chances are you're particularly interested in a comparison to console sims, i.e. Forza or Gran Turismo:

- No singleplayer progression or career mode (worth mentioning).
- There's only setup, no tuning/parts swapping.
- Less cars in general and an emphasis on actual race cars (in the official content, mods are of course another matter).
- Designed to be driven with wheels, controller support might exist but is often (always?) a subpar experience.

A personal opinion about physics: I don't talk much about the physics of any of the sims listed here, the reason being that for any sim you'll find people calling it the best thing ever as well as people calling it utter crap because this other thing is obviously the best ever based on some poorly understood dev posts as well and/or the fact that <real driver> totally does not get paid to endorse this product. The truth is none of these games truly recreate real world physics, they all have different philosophies on how to approach a reasonable approximation. Within some basic criteria the way they present the driving/racing experience qualifies all of them as sims in my opinion, and the only way to really find out if you'll like how one of them feels is to try it out. Spent time looking at the features and get a demo if possible, don't waste your time reading endless discussions about physics. I found that for pretty much any sim, once I set up my wheel correctly and gave it some time to get into the particular language of the game, I was able to find cars and tracks I love to drive.






"Current" is a flexible definition, some of these have started many years ago, some might be based on older tech, for some "being in development" seems a bit of an eternal state.

In alphabetical order:




Assetto Corsa

http://www.assettocorsa.net
Developer: Kunos Simulazioni

Assetto Corsa left early access in December 2014 but is still very much a work in progress. The AI especially leaves a lot to be desired, so this is more of a driving and not a racing simulator right now. AC prides itself on highly accurate tracks and in general the official content (with few exceptions) is spot on and done when released. Currently there is no weather or night racing, track conditions can be selected but are fixed for the duration of the race. It's highly moddable and currently seems to attract the biggest community, though many tracks right now are somewhat half-assed ports from older sims.

Available on Steam




iRacing

http://www.iracing.com
Developer: iRacing.com Motorsport Simulations

iRacing bills itself as a subscription-based service, as such it comes with high costs for the subscription itself as well as for content packs, but if you're serious about a proper online racing simulation it's really your only choice. Has basically every feature on the list, weather, dynamic grip buildup, night racing, whatever you want. This is as close as you can get to being a real race car driver. The downside is you have to deal with people who really want to pretend being real race car drivers. The business model of course prohibits any real modding.

Available on Steam




Project CARS

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/
Developer: Slightly Mad Studios

To be released in April. Slightly Mad Studios previously developed the "Need for Speed: Shift" series under the boot of Electronic Arts, for Project CARS they went their own way with a self-funded/crowd-funded model. The graphics are absolutely gorgeous, certainly the prettiest rain and night racing you've ever seen in a game. Has an actual career mode, something you don't see too often in PC sims or as an afterthought at best. So far no word on moddability, but not much is expected on that front. Slightly Mad promises to keep expanding the game with DLC though, ultimately that's of course going to be a matter of sales.

Available on Steam




RaceRoom Racing Experience

http://game.raceroom.com/
Developer: Sector3 Studios (formerly SimBin)

Developed by former SimBin people who did some of the best sims last generation on the isiMotor2 (i.e. rFactor1) engine, RaceRoom is built on their own engine and is Free-To-Play with purchasable content packs generally build around specific racing series. Reception initially was mixed but has been improving, there seems to be no doubt though that if nothing else it has the best sound out there.

Available on Steam




rFactor2

http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/
Developer: Image Space Incorporated

The sim with a pedigree. rFactor 1 (or rather it's underlying isiMotor2 engine) was the platform for years. rFactor2 started development in 2009 and had some trouble getting off the ground but has been improving quite a lot recently. The official content varies in quality and is very much in flux, not the least because the long development time means rFactor2 is a bit in a state of catch-up in terms of technology, at least graphically. rFactor2 features "real road" technology, i.e. rubber/grip accumulates dynamically on the racing line. Weather as well as night racing are in but still being tweaked. Highly moddable but the community hasn't embraced it as much as rFactor 1 yet due to the slow/shaky start.

Available on the official site, a move to Steam is planned.




(Game) Stock Car Extreme

http://game-stockcar.com.br/?lang=en
Developer: Reiza Studios

Game Stock Car Extreme (recently renamed to Stock Car Extreme after coming to Steam) is a sim about brazilian stock car racing - wait, don't go! First off, this is not oval racing, it's more like V8 supercars on tracks you never heard of aside from Interlagos. Probably the last hurrah of the isiMotor2 engine and without a doubt the farthest it's ever been pushed, Stock Car Extreme is considered (by all of the two dozen people who gave it a try) to be a fantastic offline racing experience and probably the most complete package you can get right now, only missing weather. Since it's isiMotor2 it's very moddable and you can find a lot of the rFactor1 tracks converted to GSCE. Included in the low price are some other series, like for example the probably best F1 experience you can have right now provided you hunt down enough F1 tracks.

Available on Steam






Technology improves, not only in terms of presentation but also in the kind of physics a home PC can handle. Nevertheless most of these should still drive very well and you might find cars, tracks or series you like that you can't find in current sims. Some might be added more for their place in racing sim history.

From newer to older:




Race07

[no official site]
Developer: SimBin Studios

Released 2007 by SimBin - well regarded for their previous work on GT Legends, GTR and GTR2 - Race07 is one of the many games developed on the isiMotor2 (i.e. rFactor1) engine. Race07's features good racing AI and a host of expansion packs turning it into a pretty comprehensive racing collection. A collection of Race07 including some of the expansion content was released under the name Race Injection, however it's missing some beloved cars and tracks and is thus considered inferior despite slight upgrades.

Available on Gamersgate. Apparently SimBin games vanished from Steam at some point.




netKar Pro

http://www.netkar-pro.com/main/
Developer: Kunos Simulazioni

Released in 2006 netKar Pro had a bad start and it took a full two years until the release of version 1.1 that solved most issues. Still, despite being well received for its driving, nKpro kept on being controversial due to Kunos' development and communication approach. The last update was 2011, since Kunos has been working on Assetto Corsa since then no further updates are to be expected.

Available on the official site.




GTR 2 – FIA GT Racing Game

[no official site]
Developer: SimBin Studios

Another SimBin isiMotor2 joint, GTR2 from 2006 is one of the classics of sim racing. The emphasis lies on GT/Touring Car racing but some open wheelers are included as well. A kinda sorta remake of it made it to Race07 in the from of the GTR Evolution expansion, but I think the consensus is that GTR2 is superior.

Available on Gamersgate. Also not on Steam currently.




rFactor

http://rfactor.net/web/rf1/
Developer: Image Space Incorporated

rFactor was released in 2005 and became the racing sim platform for years, used for several commercial products and approximately one bazillion mods. The visuals are obviously showing it's age, the UI is archaic as is the configuration, but in terms of content it'll keep you busy for ages.

Available on the official site, a move to Steam is planned and already greenlit.




Richard Burns Rally

[no official site]
Developer: Warthog Games

If you're looking for good rallying, there is only RBR. Released in 2004, there hasn't been a good rally sim since (and arguably also not before). But RBR is here for you. RBR is eternal. RBR is also very very hard. The graphics might be dated but the rallying is still top notch. The community keeps the game alive through a mod pack called RSRBR (see here), although RBR wasn't developed with modding in mind so everything is kinda terribly hacked in. Luckily, since it's all in one pack, the installation is relatively straightforward and you should probably not play RBR without it.

Available here. The game was discontinued long ago though so the legality of them selling it is at least questionable. Other than that you'd have to hunt down a used disc, they show up on Amazon from time to time.




Grand Prix Legends

[no official site]
Developer: Papyrus Design Group

If you're talking about a true classic of a game genre, this sim from 1998 is it. GPL has a bit of an unfair reputation as being unrealistically difficult to drive due to the demo car being set up idiotically and the full release not allowing any aids during actual races which made it hard for people to ease into the sim. Not that it isn't really hard, just not undriveably so. GPL has a surprising amount of mods as well as a big unofficial patch (start here).

Available only used.




Grand Prix 2

[no official site]
Developer: Microprose / Geoff Crammond

This 1996 release acts a stand-in for Geoff Crammond's whole Grand Prix Series (1992, 1996, 2000, 2002). I selected number 2 because while 3 and 4 are better games they are iterations and Grand Prix 2 stands out most as a classic in the context of its time. This is one you probably don't actually want to play today. Grand Prix 4... maybe?

Available only used.






You'll probably want a force feedback wheel sooner or later. If you do so, make sure you have the space to set it up right. You don't need to dedicate a whole room to your racing endeavours, but whereever you set up shop you should be able to sit in, well, a comfortable driving position.

If you're looking for an entry-level force feedback wheel under 200 dollars your best and maybe only bet is the used market. The wheels always recommended to look for are:
- Logitech Driving Force GT
- Logitech Driving Force Pro

In the medium range up to 500 dollars you have:
- Logitech G27, G25
- Fanatec CSR, CSR Elite, Porsche
- Thrustmaster T500, T300
In the case of Fanatec you're buying individual components, i.e. wheel, pedals, shifter.
Don't underestimate the value of good pedals. If you can get ones with a load cell brake pedal. And of course plastic just doesn't feel right.

High end, up to a 1000 dollars:
- Fanatec CSW

Beyond that you go into direct drive wheels, which are a whole other level but the cheapest right now I think is the Accuforce for 1750 dollars, without pedals. So yeah.






If you spend god knows how much on a wheel it's a good idea to also spend some time digging into how to set it up correctly. Every sim handles FFB differently so there's sadly no all-in-one solution to be found, a little time investment is necessary. Plus you might end up having to open the odd INI or CFG file...



Here is a guide for rFactor2, but the general gist of it applies to other sims as well. I'll try to give you a short version of the important points, from my admittedly still very limited understanding of the subject:

Clipping

The big one. Damper and Spring might be debatable as personal preference, but clipping really isn't. In short, your wheel clips when the game demands more force to be put out than the motor can handle. You end up with a constant (maximum) force and any information the game tries to give you beyond that is simply lost, cut off. Ideally you would never want that to happen, however if you turn down the FFB strength in the game to such a level that it never ever clips, not even when you smash over a curb at high speeds, then the force range left for normal driving situations might end up being very small and the resulting FFB feeling very weak.

In order to dial this in you need an app for the sim that shows you the forces, this generally comes as a pedals app with four moving columns which show clutch, brake, throttle and the current force feedback state. Then it's a matter of driving around adjusting force feedback strength so that it doesn't "get into the red" too much.

Some sims allow you to set FFB per car, which is ideal since different cars have different FFB levels depending on their physics setup. For example, the range of FFB strength leading to approximately the same amount of clipping in AC is 60% to 90% for my wheel. You might also want to deliberately drive with clipping for a while to be able to recognize how it feels, this is going to help you dial in FFB in sims that don't have a way of measuring it.

Degrees of Rotation

In newer sims you generally only have to make sure the rotation is set to the same in your driver, on your wheel and in the sim. That's probably 900° these days. The sim itself will then take care to set the actual degree of rotation to what's appropriate for the car. If these values don't correspond, things might feel weird. Some older sims however might not work well with 900°, in some you might want to set the steering lock manually... at which point I'd have to trust you know how to use google.

Deadzone

Most (affordable) wheels due to their construction have a certain deadzone before FFB picks up, making them feel somewhat dead if only little forces act on the car. Newer sims have a workaround for that by way of a minimum force setting. This just means small amounts of force that your wheel couldn't have produced get increased enough to overcome the deadzone so they don't get lost.

Damper & Spring

As far as I've been able to suss out these are only to add constant forces to the wheel, spring being a return-to-center force, damper being a resistance-to-turning force. There is some personal preference here and for games without a minimum force setting damper might help with the deadzone feeling, but ultimately they do mask some of the dynamic FFB actually coming from the car with fixed forces not coming from the car, so I've been setting them to OFF whenever I seem them. Be it in the driver, on my wheel, or in the game.






HELP?






(copied from old OP)

http://www.iracing.com/inracingnews/ : Best place for general news in the simracing world. Very iRacing centric however.

http://www.insidesimracing.tv/ : Less iRacing centric (but still owned more or less by iracing) and an excellent place to find hardware/software reviews and videos. This is probably the best website to start at.

http://www.racedepartment.com/ : A more eurocentric and less iRacing focused news source. This is an excellent start for those interested in finding a league.

http://racesimcentral.com/ : once the old stalwart but has run into trouble over the years. Still an excellent news source.






HELP?

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
Care to write a four sentence paragraph about it? :)

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
As in "games that properly support Occulus"? Sounds good. A short list under the hardware section might be good.

I hope Occulus comes out this year. As someone who doesn't have the space for a tripple-screen I'm really looking forward to it.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Nerdrock posted:

That's a great looking OP.

Cockpit talk might be worth a couple lines in "other hardware" For the amount of shopping I'd done before committing, I can be quite confident in saying Obutto pits are the best bang for your buck, short of building one yourself. I can potentially put a few lines down talking about them in the next day or so, if you like.

Yeah, just throw it my way.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
That's pretty much perfect. I try to keep things as short as possible, just to give an idea of what's there, anybody who wants to dig deeper into a topic is not going to look at a thread OP.

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

L_Harrison posted:

For iRacing, weather and dynamic grip buildup? lol I don't think so. Even 'weather' is a bit generous. It's mainly just skybox changes and generic temperature and wind stuff.

It hasn't? Weird, I didn't even doubt that for a second. Sloppy research on my part. Corrected :)

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

pik_d posted:

Here's what I got, thought if Ziploc (or anyone else) has something to add that'll be welcome too.




Live For Speed

https://www.lfs.net/
Developer: Scawen Roberts, Eric Bailey, Victor van Vlaardingen

First released as a demo in 2002 Live for Speed is developed by a three man team independent of a publisher, keeping it both cheap and focused, but sometimes slow to update. The game focuses on online gameplay making it very easy to just pick up and race, though lacks some of the bells and whistles featured in newer titles. The game features a mix of fictional and licensed content, fully supports the Oculus Rift, and has a time-unlimited demo. Because it is still under development the game is not open to adding in community made cars and tracks, though applications can be made to connect to LFS for data manipulation and server administration.

Available on the official site

Perfect. Well... I'm going to to change the banner to left-justified because MY LAYOUT.

Edit: I thought I had to reiterate how much I appreciate you putting the time in to copy my layout despite getting the banner alignment so terribly wrong ;)

GhostDog fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Feb 28, 2015

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.

Jehde posted:

It might be an idea to let me have second post or something so I can update it whenever, but it's up to you. When it comes to GPL, it's probably worth mentioning the GPLPS overhaul mod too. Otherwise the OP is looking great, love how you approach the "physics question".

I was wondering how to approach the mod section. I'd be happy to leave you second post if you want to curate an AC mod list, so maybe I'll put very very important mods for older games like GPLPS and RSRBR in the OP and leave the more comprehensive listing for active games - AC and rF2 I guess - to second and third post? Actually it might be third and fourth post, I'll probably split the OP into two posts.

How do I make sure you get second/third post though? Just timing?

Jehde posted:

I will say though, for making a less wordy OP, it's still pretty big. Maybe some of the games could be trimmed out? I'm not one to say which games are more important or what, though.

My goal was more "less words per sim but more sims overall". I think the only games I'd be okay to take out are netKar and Grand Prix 2, but then again the whole thing takes like 10 minutes to read through so I think it's okay.

GhostDog fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Feb 28, 2015

GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
And some more words on AC track mods: I tried a lot of them and found I really dislike most of the rFactor1 conversions because every corner that isn't flat you'll start bumping over the low poly track mesh. Like, I downloaded nearly everything from racedepartment, and only about a dozen tracks are still installed.

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GhostDog
Jul 30, 2003

Always see everything.
:siren::siren: NEW THREAD :siren::siren:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3703725

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