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UVA/UVB for Diurnal Herps Animals that are awake and active during the day require specialty lighting to provide the UVA and UVB rays that allow them to produce vitamin D3 and utilize the calcium in their diets. Without these lights or with the wrong ones, animals will suffer a number of permanent ailments including calcium deficiency, metabolic bone disease (advanced calcium deficiency affecting bone growth and density), organ shut down, and death. Some reptiles may also go on hunger strikes and have their eyesight rapidly degrade with the wrong type of lighting. It is critically important to provide the proper type of lighting to diurunal herps and to pay attention to what they do with it. Hopefully I can make this simple because there are a lot of products on the market that are downright dangerous. Always practice common sense; check your temps before adding animals, recheck again after they are added, and observe their habits. Requirements vary for different species so always recheck your parameters before purchasing your bulbs. I have found that species specific forums are great places to research your pets and find which lights work best for them. UVA rays comes from pretty much any type of "white" or "yellow" light. You can use a regular incandescent bulb as a source of heat as well as UVA. UVA stimulates appetite among other things. UVB is more of our concern when discussing herp husbandry. The cheapest place to purchase UVB lighting that I have found is lllreptile.com. I bulk order bulbs, get a discount, and test them all when they arrive before storing them. They also price match so if you find a better price, let them know! Here are the basics to UVB: All UVB bulbs are not created equal! Okay, look. I am too lazy to type out all the exact findings and reasons I have for saying this (source material starting but not ending here ), but basically there is currently only one specific bulb on the market worth buying: Zoomed Reptisun Linear Fluorescent (2.0, 5.0, or 10.0) This bulb is the standard fluoro tube that comes in a variety of lengths from 12" to 4 feet. The 2.0 is for rain forest species that need low levels of UVB such as dart frogs, pygmy chameleons, and some snakes. The 5.0 is ideal for most chameleons, iguanas, anoles, and anything warmly tropical. The 10.0 is for desert species such as tortoises, bearded dragons, and uromastyx. This is your best bet for rack systems because you can use one 4 foot UVB bulb with one 4 foot regular fluorescent bulb in a $10 double bulb fixture from any home improvement store. Depending on the species you keep, you will most likely need to pair this bulb next to a regular heat lamp (any incandescent bulb will be fine) to encourage basking and to provide a temperature gradient. Keep your lights on a timer to conserve their life and to keep your pets on a schedule I have found that animals stress without a regular light cycle. It will also allow you to control breeding seasons reliably as you can increase or decrease the photoperiod season to season to match wild conditions. Timers are super cheap at IKEA. You need to provide a usable, inviting basking spot Observe your animal and figure out where best to place the basking area. You want to make sure that your pet is drawn to the spot and has a good place to sit and soak up the rays. The easiest way to draw an animal to bask under a linear fluorescent UVB tube is to have your heat lamp as close to the UVB strip as possible. Test your temps with a heat gun or probe thermometer to make sure the spot is at your ideal high temperature (and no more!) and position a perch under both bulbs. Your pet should be drawn to bask under both lights by the heat from the incandescent bulb as well as the rays from the UVB. If your animal doesn't actively bask, you should watch them and figure out how to make their environment more comfortable so that they will. If you are using a mercury vapor bulb, it will provide both heat and UVB. UVB emitting bulbs have a limited lifespan and need to be replaced regularly The general rule is that the Zoomed linear fluorescent Reptisun tubes last around 6 months. If you have a UVB meter, you can test the output and replace the bulb when needed, otherwise just change it at the end of month 6. The mercury vapor bulbs typically last a year and a half or possibly longer but I have seen it debated if these are even safe to use. Used bulbs that no longer emit enough UVB for herps make great lights for aquariums and used as normal house fluoros. I know some keepers who start with a 10.0 and let it degrade until they use it on a 5.0 tank, and then finally a 2.0 tank. Very economical. UVB rays only penetrate a few inches into an enclosure and are blocked by glass and plastic For the fluorescent bulbs, you need to position them ideally within 6-10 inches above where the animal will be basking. The UVB rays don't penetrate further. UVB will not go through glass or acrylic so lights should be placed over screen. The bulb will do your pet no use if they can't get close enough to it to soak up UVB rays. We cannot replicate nature Even the best bulbs don't put out as much usable UVB as the sun does on an overcast day. Bulbs degrade, they only go so deep, and the sun is the best thing that you can give to your reptiles. You have to be very careful about how you do this, but taking the animals out to bask in real sun on nice days is one of the greatest things you can do for their health. You absolutely have to monitor temperatures like crazy during this and don't ever put an animal or enclosure in direct sun. They will still get a ton of UVB in the shade. Be very sure that your caging is secure if you put your animals outside and don't put glass tanks out because they are basically ovens. Always provide a source of cool drinking water or mist while the animals are out. Drippers work especially well for this. Compact fluorescent UVB bulbs are dangerous and should never be used! These bulbs are sold under a few brands but all of them should be avoided. They are the "compact" coiled fluorescent bulbs that screw into a regular clamp lamp. You may be tempted to use them for this reason, but they emit a dangerous amount of UVC radiation. UVC breaks down eyesight and can blind reptiles over surprisingly short periods of exposure. It also can leave nasty radiation burns if an animal gets too close. I'm sure I have missed something but I am happy to answer questions if they come up. Pardalis fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jan 19, 2012 |
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Jan 19, 2012 12:46
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5er posted:I live in the Portland, Oregon vicinity. This past weekend, there was a reptile expo in Wilsonville, one that happens on a semi-annual basis. I've been to a few of them (this time last year, I posted pictures in the previous herp thread of the normal and pastel ball pythons I picked up at one, I can post fresh pictures of them later), this past one was kind of lame. There was more stuff than reptiles available, and to my chagrin, not very many turtles. I was in the market to pick up a turtle, because my son was talking about how cool it would be to have a turtle. The show this past summer was just swamped with baby turtles of all sorts, in buckets and bins all over. This year, all I saw were the tiny assed loggerheads that spent most of their time in the water, maybe a handful of northeastern boxes that seemed like they may've been overpriced, and one young sulcata that was probably reasonably priced for its size but I still didn't want to pay about $250 for it. Have you been to House of Reptiles in Tigard? They are one of the few shops that sells animals and does a great job of it. As a bonus, it is better than going to the zoo. They always have several species of turtles and torts available and they carry mostly all captive bred animals. They are priced as a retail store would be expected but you get what you pay for and most of their animals come from carefully sourced local hobbyists.
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Jan 26, 2012 02:38
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Here are some guides I have read regarding building racks and using flexwatt. It seems pretty simple. Wiring Flexwatt Heat Tape Wiring Heat Tape (Parallel Installation) Basic Shoebox Rack I was planning on building something like this in the near future. I would cut large holes and hot glue screen on the front of each sterlite box to mist through. I think the most important thing to consider regarding not burning poo poo is to use a reliable rheostat to keep your temperatures stable and safe.
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Feb 6, 2012 05:02
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Anhedonia posted:Hey, I'm a new owner of a beautiful baby blue panther chameleon. I'm not really sure what to expect to be honest, at the store he was really playful and crawling all over me but now that I brought him home (in a really nice 2 foot by 4 foot terrarium with tons of plants for him to climb on) he's nervous and reserved. I know I'm jumping the gun because I only got him yesterday but I really want him to like me! Is there anything I can do or is this just a patience exercise? Greetings new panther servant, welcome to caring for a delicate living piece of art that hates you most of the time. If you haven't checked out the chameleon forums, you should head over there and do some reading to brush up on your husbandry. Chameleons need tall screen enclosures, no substrate, live plants, frequent misting, and no handling. They are not "playful" animals- they stress easily and will die if you handle them often. If you want him to like you, put him in a quiet, low traffic area of the house and leave him alone. You can try hand feeding him a few weeks later after he has settled in and he may learn to see you as a provider of food and water, but that is the closest to being "liked" by a chameleon you will get. They are delicate, sensitive animals and don't make a good pet in the way that people typically want a pet. Many won't ever let you see them drink or eat, and some are downright aggressive or painfully shy. Some end up being fat puppies that beg for food every time they see you. They still don't like to be touched at all or looked at for too long, though. 
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Feb 24, 2012 19:00
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Anhedonia posted:Thanks a bunch for the help, I did hand feed him a bit and he seems to be happier. I'll try not to pick him up for a while unless he climbs on me. I'm sorry, I don't think I was clear enough. You don't handle chameleons at all. They are not a pet to hold, touch, or bother. They will literally die from the stress of it and you shouldn't be giving him the opportunity to "climb on you". Leave him in his screen cage, provide lots of cover via live plants such as pothos or schefflera, hand feed him if he will accept it, and don't do anything to stress him out. Chams are very cute animals but are adapted to life hidden in tree canopies, far away from predators and where they blend in best. Constantly seeing us/dogs/kids/whatever is stressful enough for them without being handled ("grabbed by large predator") on top of it. Him climbing up is him acting on instinct to escape you, not to be like "hey dad". Does he drink for you when you water him?
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Feb 26, 2012 05:58
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If you get CBB Tokays, they are skittish rather than aggressive. I can handle mine (though I don't often), the male more so than the female, and they are surprisingly tolerant of my presence. It seems they are defensive biters; they do it straight out of the egg. If you go slow, show them you bring food, and back off if they seem uncomfortable, you will be fine. You can totally win them over. The trick is to watch the toes and where they are looking. Always approach low from the back end and touch lightly when you are brave enough. I touch mine through the screen on the front of their enclosure and the male doesn't mind at all. I also make a point to get close and look at them when they are out to habituate them to me being nearby and not stressing them directly. They will watch you, if they turn their heads towards your hand and lift their toes, back off. In my experience and that of other Tokay enthusiasts I know, most CBB animals will opt to skitter away instead of attack like WC tend to do. I love Tokays so freaking much; if you guys want them, please support someone who focuses on captive breeding them. They are a totally different animal than an emaciated, stressed, and parasite ridden WC specimen.  
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Mar 12, 2012 04:39
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For what it is worth, some acquaintances who rescue tokays have tamed even horribly stressed WCs after some initial de-stressing time and rounds of Panacur. You really do just have to go slow with them. As per said acquaintance on the subject: "Once you can safely hold them for a brief bit and are comfortable with it, take them into a bathtub or shower and just sit for 5-15 minutes without stressing the gecko out. Let them explore you and move slowly and they learn to be comfortable with you." One thing that I have noticed is that my tokays smell me a lot, especially my male. They do this by sticking out their tongue and tasting whatever they are sitting on. He has very purposefully licked my fingers multiple times, while sitting on me and through the screen front of their terrarium. One time, I remember being especially warm and uh... sweaty, and he was very interested in repeatedly scenting/licking my fingertip. I think it is really good to let them do this if you want them to recognize you.
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Mar 12, 2012 04:55
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I haven't seen many other keepers with either of these species, but I have a pair of Haitian curly tailed lizards in a 20 long terrarium beside a ten gallon that is home to a pair of interestingly colored Pacific sideband snails and a giant invasive species of garden snail. I only put the snails into the ten gallon a few days ago and Reginald, the male curly tail, can't stop obsessing over them. I think that I will try to culture some clean feeder snails of a smaller, softer variety for him. In the meantime I will put a visual barrier on the end of his enclosure (but not before I take photos!  ) sidebands are biiiig  snail tank  Reggie noticing snails  "I want those"  "....  " Beartato gives no fucks and is smarter; she was waiting for superworms.  Reginald not being a dick and wanting to eat snails.  The curly tails cuddle sometimes; I will try to get a photo of it.
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Jul 19, 2012 20:53
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My CBB Tokays have eggs! 
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Jul 22, 2012 05:23
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My Haitian curly-tailed lizards looooove murdering snails. Reginald gets super excited, headbobs, and shakes one apart while Beartato looks on in this video: http://youtu.be/MPsYWKn9ewQ
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Aug 14, 2012 03:33
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OneTwentySix, I have breeding trio of granulosa that I would be happy to ship to you if you could walk me through it. They are the nicest specimens out of a local pond I searched many months ago. You can email me at kenyachams at gmail dot com if you are interested.
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Aug 15, 2012 20:34
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Genmaicha, my geriatric panther chameleon, lives mostly outside during the warm summer months. He was in a mood today. I have never seen him fire up this fully red. This from a chameleon that has also been totally blue-on-blue! He has wider color variation than any cham I have ever personally seen. He is also a big sucky babby.
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Aug 16, 2012 07:18
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Sorry for your loss, Hypnotoad. Whoever wanted a CBB Tokay, PM me and I will put you on a waiting list of sorts. It will be several months before I have babies, but I would love to send them off to good goon homes; these guys don't get nearly enough attention for how wonderful the CBB individuals are. E: New additions Carpet chameleon male, CBB 11 months old  4 month old high yellow/turquoise line cbb veiled male  Captain Foxy's first chameleon, a 5 month old yellow body/blue bar cbb Ambilobe panther 
Pardalis fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Aug 24, 2012 |
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Aug 24, 2012 18:20
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Malalol posted:What do chams require in terms of diet vs just normal crickets/worms? Is that not healthy for them? Chameleons are prone to hunger strikes if not given a wide variety of feeder insects. They are notoriously picky and change their minds about what their favorite food is at whim. They also need a pretty high amount of calcium and regimented vitamin supplementation; if you can provide this through varied, well gutloaded feeders, it is easier and healthier for them than relying solely on powder supps. A few species will eat vegetation (veileds in particular seem to like this) so it can be good to offer berries, slices of squash, greens, and basically what you would give to a beardie. I do this with a chip clip on a favorite branch. Dietary requirements vary by species.
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Aug 25, 2012 18:45
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I had two of these, both rescues, one a serious burn victim. They were really cool; skinklike more than snakelike, little vestigial limbs in the form of spurs, and they were absolute murder machines for all types of prey. Unfortunately, mine passed away after years with me at unknown ages and they are actually illegal in my state so I doubt I will come across more. I suggest trying them out if you get the chance! Regarding breeding, I would try to provide UVB, mimic seasonal changes, put them through a brumation or hibernation, and feed a high protein, high fat, very varied diet. I never attempted to breed mine since they are illegal and were rescues of unknown age etc. I might have if I had been able to vet them properly and they were in good shape.
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Aug 30, 2012 17:51
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A dwarf caiman is the one exotic that I want that is probably a Bad Idea. But then again, they don't get too huge! I could feed my enemies to it! I love how they are always smiling
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Sep 7, 2012 17:40
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My little veiled male was shedding a few days ago and very grumpy about it. So undignified.
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Sep 10, 2012 06:58
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Ship the giant millipedes to me before you die, tia But seriously, if you have babies later, I would buy some.
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Sep 17, 2012 05:18
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!! I just checked on my Tokays and they have laid another pair of eggs right by the first two! I expect the first eggs to hatch in about a month or so. I can't wait to see what my hatchlings look like; I have been toying with ordering morph animals to pair them with. Powder blue Tokays are just so pretty! If I could get the structure and stability from my pair with the color of a morph, I would be thrilled. Mama is pissed and wants me to GTFO   Daddy is hunting and doesn't care as much on the other side of the tank.  
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Sep 20, 2012 12:31
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To be honest, the normal coloration is my favorite. However I am very spoiled as my pair of "normals" are very, very nicely colored. The only morphs I would be into are Powder Blue, hypomelanistic, and the boldest calicos but even then none of them are as stunning as a healthy normal imo.
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Sep 20, 2012 13:05
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Have you considered making your substrate bulk and selling the extra? I know that I would be interested in trying it for my isopod cultures. I bet you could move a ton of it at reptile shows.
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Sep 27, 2012 18:56
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Cute panther. When he does poop, what color are the urates that are attached? If they are mostly pearly white, he is hydrated enough and I wouldn't worry too much. If they are yellow, he is dehydrated and needs more opportunity to drink. That being said, his eyes look pretty good in your pic so if he is dehydrated, it isn't by much. He should be drinking more than he seems to be and extra hydration will help him pass more often. Keep watering him along with feeding as you have been but spray his cage and plants down more often so that he has lots to drink. Juicier feeders like silkworms, hornworms, and butterworms will help rehydrate him. They can also have a mild laxative effect; I would offer one a day in addition to his regular feeders and see if that improves how often he goes. You can pop him onto a potted plant and into a warm, light shower. Set the spray very low so it just hits part of the plant and he can move in and out of it at will. Let him steam and bathe for half an hour and then switch the water off, wait another 15 so he has more time to drink. The steam will help him rehydrate and he will have lots of time to drink off of the leaves of his plant. I suggest still having a dripper going at least once a day; you can let it drip into a potted plant or a cup that you empty each day. A lot of people build simple drainage, too. It isn't too unusual for him to slow down how often he eats and poops if he is over a year because he is through with his major growth spurts. If they seem unusually large, messy, misshapen, or smelly, get a fecal float and smear done by an experienced herp vet to rule out parasites. I think 2-3 times a week isn't an unusual amount for an adult to defecate.
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Sep 29, 2012 03:17
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Old world chameleons are canopy animals that literally almost never come into contact with soil. Only the females do when descending to bury clutches of eggs but while they are doing that, they are off food and won't strike prey. Experienced keepers keep them with live plants in small pots, bare bottom mesh enclosures, and the soil in the plants sifted, organic, and only topsoil (perlite is a choking/impaction hazard). If you want to keep chameleons with substrate or in glass tanks, look into the different species of pygmy chameleons/false chameleons. They are little forest bottom dwellers and like to tromp around in leaf litter. They also can be kept communally, unlike other chameleon species. I really like Rippeleon species and some brookesia.
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Sep 30, 2012 21:29
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Yes, it is defective, blue juice it immediately. In reality, chameleons are easily stressed, don't like to be seen by other animals (all are either predators or prey), and want to be up high and hidden so I doubt that your chameleon "likes" to be handled. He is really just trying to get to a higher, safer vantage point so that he can keep a watch out for the giant predators oogling him and reaching into his territory. I know it may seem to you that he "loves" climbing on you and coming out to perch on your head, but really he is doing it because he isn't comfortable and is stressed out by the attention. A panther chameleon that feels safe and unstressed in its territory will usually stay in a few choice spots and when the cage is opened by a keeper, they display and defend the territory (if in a feisty mood), demand food, or stay still, hoping to not be seen. I would suggest not handling your chameleon if you want it to stay at optimum health.
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Sep 30, 2012 22:23
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Holy crap, he looks great! You are doing a fantastic job with him! Those aren't stress colors, they are gorgeous adult male colors and he is getting them because of the superb care he is receiving with you. His leavings sound fine, he is drinking and eating for you, and it is totally normal for veileds to be pretty pissy, especially as adults so don't take that personally. He clearly is comfortable with you and sees you as his source of good stuff if he is eating with you there, showing those colors, and drinking easily. Just keep it up and he will probably hand feed for you eventually. As far as showers go, I suggest them depending on the animal. Some stress too much for it to be worth doing, some need it to stay properly hydrated. Veileds can go either way but it is worth trying a few times to see if he picks it up. It is an especially good opportunity for them to clean their eyes out. That new scheff can easily be split up if you choose to; just get the pot off and work the root balls apart gently with running water. You can then repot them however you want; I find that a little pot with 4 main stalks fills two big cham cages nicely when repotted. They are really hardy and you can pull them apart and trim them up a bit for better coverage and spacing. They coincidentally make great bonsai plants if you want to do some hobby inception.
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Oct 3, 2012 19:17
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Anecdotally, many if not all pyg keepers I know have had great luck using older 5.0 bulbs with their pyg vivariums in place of the 2.0. This of course works best when you have a reliable UVB meter to test output levels monthly with and is a fabulous way to get extra life from your spent bulbs. Kilersquirrel, what do you have in your cham collection? You seem like you know some stuff about these gorgeous, ungrateful bastards! E: As for the questions about brevs earlier, they and Rhampholeon Temporalis both make good starter pygmy species and can sometimes be found CB/CBB if you are patient and get in contact with pyg keepers. They rarely make it to the public market and are snatched by hobbyists so your best bet is to know someone with a group that produces and get on a wait list. I love these little guys and plan on setting up an enclosure of them sometime next year.
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Oct 9, 2012 02:55
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Hard to tell with that crappy washed out photo but it looks like a senegal to me and I don't see obvious MBD but it is likely with that setup and husbandry. You could get it if you really wanted to but don't expect much beyond a shortened life for a stressed out animal. Senegals are all WC and only live around 4 years. E: I still think it is a senegal because of the shape of the casque but who knows. If it is a veiled, it is a severely stunted female at a year old and she is likely to eggbind later. Good luck; post photos after you get her. I wouldn't pay for her, personally, as she is going to cost you much to get back in reasonable shape. I don't suggest taking on rescues for inexperienced keepers. Be sure to quarantine her far, far away from your other animals as a respiratory infection is very plausible considering that setup. My favorite quick-cage setup, especially for an animal who may be ill, is a mesh laundry basket. They provide some level of visual barrier and they are cheap and disposable. IKEA has great round silver pop up ones for about $5. Pardalis fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Oct 12, 2012 |
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Oct 12, 2012 19:46
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He is a male senegal with what looks to be impacted hemipenes. Those bulges on the side of his tail are his junk; the tips sticking out are sperm plugs that need to be soaked and gently teased out. He looks mildly dehydrated and will have issues since that is a long-standing problem, but I see no obvious severe MBD yet and he could easily recover with proper supplementation and lighting. The first pic hints at the start of MBD- he looks weak, his jaw looks a bit off in alignment, and the way he is hanging on the branch are all making me worry.
Pardalis fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Oct 12, 2012 |
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Oct 12, 2012 19:58
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Wait on soaking him and throw him and his pothos/ficus in for a warm shower while you get the cage together. He needs to rehydrate and it will take a few days of extra attention but at the same time you don't want to stress him. I shower rescue animals pretty much once a day until they seem vibrant and fully hydrated again. It is normal for them to hate the first few showers but they generally get the idea after a few if you have it set up right. Other than the showers, leave him totally alone. Don't look at him much, don't try to directly hand feed, just mist heavily and frequently and maybe set up drippers, too. He will recover faster the more secure and safe he feels. I would personally opt for a smaller cage- 18"x18"x36" or so with heavy live planting (senegals are shy and like extra humidity) and lots of visual break-up so that you can be sure he is encountering food often enough. I would also line all sides but the top and front with vinyl shower curtain liner to keep humidity up and lower his stress from seeing stuff outside of his cage. This will also help you contain the water that will be flowing through the cage from all the extra misting you will be doing. You will also want to get him proper lighting ASAP and if you are in a climate that is still warm with summer sunshine and temps above 60, put the whole cage outside in a shady protected spot for natural UVB exposure for an hour or more each day. 15 minutes of overcast outside weather is more effective than 8 hours of the best, freshest UVB bulb and this will do wonders with getting him back in shape. If you can't put him outside right now, that is okay, just give him the lights and make sure his basking spot is the right temp. His hemipenal blockages look weird; can you get a few more photos of them? They may be normal and just need some help out (they joy of owning a boy), in which case you can gently q-tip the area in mineral oil and then use tweezers to gently, slowly tease them out horizontally, towards the front of your cham's body. If it seems uncomfortable or really stuck, stop and wait. You can soak them later when he is feeling a bit better but the showers should just do this naturally. He may even just pass them on his own when he poops; this is what usually happens but sometimes they don't push all the way out, much like a dog's anal glands.  At least you know you have a real man on your hands~As for his MBD, hard to tell how bad it is, but just be very gentle with him to avoid breaking anything while he builds up bone density over the next few months. He also may need to be primarily cup-fed so that he can shoot his meals at least at first until he builds up strength and skill. You can go to a herp vet, get his calcium levels checked, and maybe even a calcium and d3 shot, but I don't think it would be worth it when he is in that good of shape. It is also almost impossible to find a vet who knows anything about chameleons. With the right supplements, he should bounce back fine but he may have a touch of permanent organ damage from long term MBD and dehydration so keeping him well hydrated and supplemented will be a priority. Personally, I would give him Miner-All Outdoor at every feeding (daily right now), herptivite once a week, and calcium with d3 once a week for a few months until he seems perkier and like he is doing better. Then I would switch to regular supplementation. Matt Wheelock and Richard Funk are both great cham vets that I know of off the top of my head. You can find them through the chameleonforums or google their practices. It might be worth emailing them for some opinions or referrals to herp vets. Dr Funk is in Arizona afaik, dunno about Wheelock.
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Oct 13, 2012 02:36
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In the matter of gutloads, I rotate what I use. When I am good, I blend up 20 lbs of various fruits, veggies, and powerfoods on a semi-regular basis and freeze it in ice cubes to dole out as needed. I use water gel crystals and sliced veggies for moisture with powdered high quality cat or dog food when I am lazy. I like to rotate gutloads because the pet food can be too high protein for some types of animals and is linked to gout in chameleons specifically (that being said, I have never had issue and use moderate protein formulas that average 20%). I want to make sure I cover all of my bases. I also offer leafy greens and slices of fruits/squash directly to my male veiled via chip clip but he hasn't gotten adventurous yet, probably because he is still a babby. I've considered trying the Repashy gutload but I honestly don't care enough to order it and pay their price. I also just like making my own mix. The dubia roaches in particular seem to freak out when I give them bee pollen.
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Oct 13, 2012 02:43
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He doesn't look nearly as bad as he could and should make a quick recovery for you if you follow my instructions above. I would dose him with a couple of rounds of panacur a few weeks apart after he is drinking reliably to take care of the bulk of worms he is most likely carrying. You should also take him into a herp vet for a fecal smear and float if you can. Honestly, he is a WC animal and it is almost impossible to ever get WC chams totally clear of parasites so careful husbandry to avoid cross contamination is vital. If you get him healthier, eating, drinking, and wormed, he will do the rest and his immune system will rise to the challenge. Feed him a wide variety of insects and offer lots of juicy stuff like silkworms, waxworms, and superworms to get weight on him. I would start small and work up with food so you don't feed him too much in one go. Start with maybe 3-5 feeders on the first day, wait for poop, feed again. Do this for a week until he is pooping reliably and it is looking well formed. After that, you can slowly increase what you are offering until he is eating his fill and gaining weight without issues pooping. His appetite will pick up as he starts feeling better. Having the right lighting will really help. Don't be surprised if he hunger strikes for the first week; pretty normal as he will be stressed out from the changes and re-establishing a routine. Those hemipenal impactions don't look infected but certainly are not comfortable for him. You could try gently teasing them out with tweezers while holding the base of the tail and putting a slight, light pressure around the bulges to make the ends of the sperm plug grabbable. Be really careful, go slow, don't force it and use lubrication (quagmire) You are doing a wonderful thing for this poor little guy. I love your name choice but he will probably prove to be a very sweet animal despite it because there is something just so gentle and patient about those shy little montane species.
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Oct 13, 2012 05:39
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I really wish that these animals weren't viewed as a mere commodity to sell considering their care is so specialized. This is why rescue veileds are so sadly common; they are cheap and disposable and who cares if some kid buys it and kills it in a week? It was just $40. I honestly don't think chameleons should be available to people without a permit and husbandry course. This is why I no longer breed them. If you plan to grow those scrawny juveniles up and breed them so early as this coming spring, you are going to have some fun with MBD. Veileds absolutely WILL eat everything you give them, powerfeed, and grow much too rapidly, similar to how some snake species do. This almost always leads to serious issues later on, even with heavy supplementation and good lighting. The same thing happens in giant dog breeds, iirc. It is a common mistake with a keepers first clutch (especially veileds) to grow the babies up too fast instead of regulating what they get and how much they grow. The fractured legs, floppy jaws, and organ damage seem to come "out of nowhere" later even though the new owner is doing everything by the book and it sucks because it is totally preventable. Since you plan to keep these animals and breed them, it means you are more prone to eggbinding, early infertile clutches, and just generally sickly animals. 16-18 months is the generally accepted time to pair off veileds. Good luck feeding neonates roaches; I had multiple vivacious feeder colonies of several insect species and my small groups of hatchlings and growing babies still cost me $30-$50 minimum (with wholesale discounts!) a week to feed on top of using my own colonies. Anecdotally, many of my baby chams didn't develop a taste for roaches or worms until a few months of age. No one actually makes any money breeding chameleons themselves; you might break even if you are lucky and skilled but I wouldn't hold my breath. I would never sell to a broker. Besides the fact of not knowing where my animals are going (bad places with a broker, always), you only will make about $5 per animal, maaaaaybe $15 if they were specifically looking for veileds (they never are). E: Just because something can be sexually mature at 6 months doesn't mean it is okay to go ahead and breed it at that age or that it is totally healthy and ready to reproduce. Pardalis fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 20:31
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Shachi, you are fabulous and that is one lucky little critter. If he was sleeping during the day, he was about to die and had given up. The fact that he is alert, hunting, drinking, and grumpy is amazing. You did a Really Good Thing. E: as for the Miner-all question, use whatever calcium supplement you prefer, one with D3, one without. Don't get one with any phosphorous. I just suggested the Miner-all because I have had great results with that brand, like that it has trace nutrients in addition to the calcium, and is formulated for daily use instead of being a mega-dose of D3, but any good calcium powder will work. If you choose Repcal with D3, use very, very little of it and mix it 1:2 with regular no-D3 calcium because it is stupidly potent. Use the calcium with D3 twice a week for a month and then cut back to once a week, and then go to a normal schedule of once every two weeks (on the "off " week, use Herptivite or a similar reptile vitamin instead as it also has D3). Use the calcium without D3 every other feeding for now to build him back up. After a month, just dust two or three feeders per feeding and feed them off first, followed by the rest of the meal, undusted. If you are gutloading well, you won't need to worry much unless you see obvious issues. If you notice crust around his nostrils (excess mineral release), go to a normal schedule with all the supplements. Pardalis fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 20:54
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I just want to point out that zoos have a reputation for killing chameleons in months, not years, because they simply are not good animals to keep in zoos and most keepers don't have the vast amount of time and resources to dedicate to little grumpy lizards that people can't see well. They simply aren't worth the bother it takes to keep them well and a no stress setup is not very visually appealing to zoo patrons. From what I have seen, zoos try for a while and give up on most chams. The few "successful" places I have seen were dismal at best; stressed, dehydrated looking animals that only lived a few years and keepers pissed that they wouldn't thrive or get by on what would be considered the bare minimum of care to hobbyists. Pygmy chameleons would be way easier to keep successfully in a zoo setting rather than old world chameleon species and considering not much has been done to secure and supply a reliable CB source, that could actually be a good idea and make you break even. Use one way glass for any side facing people but try to make it non reflective for the chams if you can (can this even be done?). Your best bet would be a huge glass terrarium with a lower profile and screen top, circulating fans, misting system on a timer, and prey spawning in tank via ootheca, larval fly placement, and isopod/springtail cultures. Set the tank behind a one way glass window and cross your fingers for a bustling colony. You could do this easily with a 55 gallon and put 2.5 pygs in depending on species and how you plant it. You just fish the babies out as needed and add new blood every few months or when an elder passes away.
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Oct 17, 2012 02:18
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^This, a thousand times over. Breed roaches, superworms, mealworms, waxworms, isopods, fruit flies, snails, phasmids, and maybe even wax worms but buy everything else in bulk and grow it or feed right away. Silkworms, crickets, butterworms, hornworms, and black soldier fly pupae are all best purchased in my experience. Mantid ootheca are awesome, too, if you have tiny chams to feed.
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Oct 18, 2012 06:35
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Shachi, I would keep showering him daily to rehydrate and try soaking him in warm water for around an hour or so to loosen things up. A lidded rubbermaid box filled with warm water will do the trick. After he has soaked, secure him in a towel so he can't bite you, apply some lubricant to the vent area and gently massage his hemipenes away from the tail, towards his body/vent to try to work those impacted sperm plugs out. Be gentle to not bruise him and as efficient as you can; we want to be quick to stress him as little as possible. Using tweezers, gently, firmly, and slowly pull the seminal plug out, parallel with the body and towards the head, but try not to break them or it will be much more difficult. If you are unsure or uncomfortable with this, take him into a herp experienced vet and have them do it. In fact, you may want to just take him to the vet and not mess with it at all; they honestly look pretty terrible and are likely causing him pain. I will guarantee that he is generally in a better mood after they are removed. He will also probably have similar issues for the duration of his life; some males are prone to this. Here is a thread about the sire of my male veiled having similar issues: http://www.chameleonforums.com/ease-out-impacted-sperm-plugs-27027/ They eventually ended up at the vet and had them removed with a cather and antibiotic lube. The trip cost $53. I also want you to note the pink tissue showing behind the plug; that is the start of a hemipenal prolapse and needs to be kept moist. The sooner you get the impacted seminal plugs out, the better. If the soaking, lube, massage, tweezer method doesn't work, get into a herp vet as soon as you can and keep exposed tissue lubricated. It will probably go right back in once the plugs are removed; if not, a vet will help with it and may even amputate his junk. Good luck 
Pardalis fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Oct 19, 2012 |
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Oct 19, 2012 03:15
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The bumps could be part of his ribs where a line of them goes down and connects the lower rib. If they are larger, irregular, kinda movable under the skin, the might be subcutaneous worms. They are common in wild caught animals and a good vet can slowly tease them out for you but oral worming won't do a thing for them. Getting him a fecal is a good call. He will probably need a round of panacur for worms, flagyl if there is anything nasty, and if they suggest Albon for any sign of infection, use with caution and request a gentler alternative as Albon is harsh as hell on chameleons. Hopefully the vet will be able to remove the rest of his impacted seminal plugs. If he has coccidia, I have a whole different set of advice so get back to me on that.
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Nov 4, 2012 18:57
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I'm sick and out of it at work, so forgive me if my reply is slightly incoherent. Feel free to ask for clarification if I'm not making sense. It is totally normal for chams, especially adults, to go into a mild brumation this time of year. I feed them less often and fewer prey items per feeding, lower my light cycle to match outside, and leave them alone. They are generally less inclined to eat, are kind of sluggish, and can get pissy easier. Nothing to worry about; they will get all crazy in spring and start eating everything in sight once they warm out of it. I find that allowing a mild brumation keeps my animals healthier, less prone to hunger strikes, and conditions them for breeding perfectly. Mimicking ideal seasonal environmental parameters specific to your species is good husbandry, imo. I would stop force feeding him, skip the olive oil, and offer him a multitude of different feeders 3 times a week or so to tempt him. They can hunger strike easier in winter and get pickier with their food so provide a lot of options that are distinct from one another so he has broad choice. Superworms, crickets, waxworms, and roaches should all be pretty standard staples in chameleons diets. You can further enhance them with silkworms, hornworms, butterworms, mealworms, phoenix worms, moths, black soldier flies, phasmids, and tons of other bugs. As for handling, please resist for lots of reasons. Do you ever personally see him drink? Watering is all about what they respond to; you can have a mister going off every few hours and still have a dehydrated animal if they don't recognize it as a water source. Likewise you can have animals used to drippers, hand misting, or spray nozzles and it takes time to get them used to a routine. Extra hydration will help the poop issue. Spraying them down is more about getting them to have a long drink while it is available rather than ambient humidity (some delicate species excluded). I really advocate semi-regular showering for most species as it is difficult to provide Madagascar monsoon levels of drinking water in a house. Depending on species and age, basking spot temp should be 85-95 and the rest of the cage should be around mid 70s during the day. Use a temp gun or probe thermometer for accuracy. If his basking temps are low, that could be why his metabolism is slow; he isn't digesting quickly enough to poop so often. You could fix this or let him brumate; up to you.
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Nov 13, 2012 03:25
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They hit 120 days on November 17th. Stupid eggs.  Hopefully they pop eventually. I hope moving didn't kill the embryos but considering the eggs still look perfect, we are probably okay. I hate having patience.
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Nov 25, 2012 17:51
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 20:12 |
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Big Centipede posted:amphisbaenian. Welp, thanks for that. And here I thought I had nothing to add to my wishlist in terms of herps. The black and white ones are especially interesting. Are they ever available in the hobby or would I have to collect them personally? They are so cool; I bet they are protected.
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Dec 13, 2012 11:43
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