The Reptile and Amphibian Thread vol.2: how to deal with the cricket stink

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Pet Island > The Reptile and Amphibian Thread vol.2: how to deal with the cricket stink

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

Does anyone have any experience with collared lizards? I've kept single collareds for over a decade so I know all about the general care, but I'm thinking of trying to start breeding so for the first time I got a few that I'm going to keep together. I ordered a male and female (from different lineages) from a popular online breeder, but then in between when I ordered them and they got old enough to ship an opportunity came up to buy another little one locally and I couldn't resist. It was too young to sex reliably when I got it, and it's still too young for me to be sure, but I think it's turned out to be a male. Then the male and female showed up, then today I moved them all into a 40G terrarium together.

I know you can't house multiple mature males together, but these guys are all around three months old so I figured they'd be fine for a while because they're so young. But then this evening I noticed the the male and the potential male kinda posturing against each other. They didn't fight or anything, just some puffing up and bobbing. They can't possibly be getting into territorial disputes at such a young age, can they? I'm hoping it's just some initial communication because they're unfamiliar lizards in a new cage, but the known female seems to be staying completely out of it, and they're not posturing against her, which has me worried there is a sexually-driven element behind it. I didn't plan to keep three in a 40G passed their first year or so anyway just for space issues, even if they did turn out to be a male and two females, but if those two don't get along I may have to break them up way earlier than I had planned. They do have multiple basking sites and hides so they can spread out a bit, but I can't move the basking sites too far apart together without eliminating the terrarium's cool side.

Here's some pictures just because:

The dark one on the bottom is the known male, the one on top of him is the one I'm not sure about. I know sitting on top of each other can be a dominance thing, but I don't think that's the case here because even though you can't really tell from this angle the one on the bottom is like 10-20% bigger than the other one. I expect him to end up the dominant one if poo poo goes down.

Here's the female. She found the heatpad before the others, who needs to fight for the heat lamps?

# ¿ Nov 7, 2013 06:50

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 12:37

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

PK posted:

it looks like they're wearing little lizard sweater vests

I'm always surprised collared lizards aren't more common in the pet trade, they get really pretty and they're easy to take care of, basically the same care guidelines as a bearded dragon. About their only downside is you can't really handle them, not because they'll get stressed or scared, but just because they're so hyperactive they won't sit still. If you take them out and put them on your lap they'll sit there for a minute, then take off to go exploring. But they still make much better pets than some of the other lizard mainstays like tokays or green anoles.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 04:46

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

Noricae posted:

These are beautiful! How long have you had them? The cuddling behavior seems to be a nervous reflex for a lot of reptiles, so they may just be huddling together because of unfamiliar housing and the stress of shipping. I would watch them closely but I don't think they start relaxing and exhibiting normal behavior patterns for a few weeks (well, apparently unless they find a heating pad and pass out on it).

It's only been about a week now, and they've settled down, in retrospect I was just over-reacting that first night. Adult males will fight each other to the death sometimes so I was a little paranoid. Now the only problem they have is fighting over crickets, if two of them go for the same cricket I get a version of this gif, except with both of them:

They get stuck in a loop where they're both trying to eat the other moving thing, in this case the other one's face, until I jam my hand in the middle. I think I'm going to start feeding them individually in a 10g tank off to the side, at least until they grow out of their piggy baby mode. Plus I imagine that'll help get them acclimated to being held, if they start to associate getting picked up with being taken to the food pit.

If you're interested in lizards but don't want to deal with bugs check out a uromastyx, the commonly-bred species get about the size of and have similar care requirements to a bearded dragon, but they're pure herbivores. There's plenty of other herbivorous lizards too, but uromastyx are probably the easiest to keep for space reasons if nothing else.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2013 10:43

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

Captain Foxy posted:

Don't forget chuckwallas. They're also mostly herbivorous, although you can offer them a worm every now and again, and the common chucks are typically around the size of a beardie as a adults. They're also more communually gregarious than most other lizards and tend to form strong pair bonds, so if the idea of keeping a pair of lizards appeals to anyone, they'd be a much better fit than beardies, who aren't designed to live like that. They're sexually dimorphic, so it makes it easier to be sure of what you have to pair. They make good kids pets because their only defense is to inflate their sides and try to look bigger, but they deflate/calm right down once you pick them up.

40g breeder tank, millet substrate, 105-110F basking spot, 75-88F cool spot, UVB 10.0, fresh veggies daily.

I have a chuckwalla, and while I like mine, I wouldn't recommend them as a first-time lizard. The smaller bearded-dragon-sized breed, the common chuckwalla (Sauromalus ater), usually doesn't calm down and generally doesn't come to tolerate handling as well as a uro. Mine freaks out whenever I touch him, despite being captive-bred and me having had him for almost a decade. They're also hard to find captive-bred, most of the ones you see on the market are wild-caught and might not adapt well to captivity or new types of food. The larger breeds, the spiny chuckwalla (S. hispidus) and calico chuckwalla (usually S. varius x S. hispidus in the pet trade), are a lot calmer and easier to find captive-bred, but a lot bigger, like 2-3 feet long.

Also they're pretty gross. They tend to always have big dead skin patches not quite ready to shed somewhere on their bodies, and they shoot excess salt out of their nose in mucus, and coat the walls of their terrarium in it.

I don't want to talk anyone out of a chuckwalla because they're impressive lizards, they're just not as pretty or friendly as uros, as with anything else just make sure you do your research.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2013 04:03

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

For uros, this guy's one of the biggest breeders, so I'd put good faith in his caresheet:

http://www.deerfernfarms.com/Uromastyx_Care.htm

He's the guy I got my chuckwalla from back in the day, I picked it up in person since my dad lives like 20 minutes down the road from him, so I can vouch that he has a really nice setup.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2013 07:56

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

cryingscarf posted:

WHERE did you get that tiny hat? I have been looking for a tiny hat for my snake for a while now with no luck.

Look for a small stuffed teddy bear or elf or something with a hat. Usually the hat's a separate element sewn on, and you can cut it off if you're careful. I would also imagine anyone who has any sewing skill at all could probably make one pretty easily, but I don't so I just scalped a small stuffed animal.

On an unrelated note I was testing out a new camera and really liked the way this shot came out, bad white balance aside:

# ¿ Dec 29, 2013 06:14

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

drat those are some fat snakes, are those first couple P. breitensteini too? I don't think I've ever seen those before.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2014 08:59

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

MrConfusedTurkey posted:

...Would taking them out and putting them in a separate container to eat help? Maybe covering the container so they aren't stressed? If that's not an option, I get paid in a few days and can afford to get an extra tank and supplies, which I will do.

Unlike snakes lizards usually won't eat out of their "home", the act of scooping them and dropping them in a strange place usually stresses them out enough to take their minds off feeding. Presumably you could leave them in the feeding container for long enough for them to get accustomed to it, but then you'd have to keep it heated enough for them to be energetic enough to eat, and at that point you're better off just using those resources toward a second enclosure.

Until you can get a second enclosure set up you can try removing the big one during feeding time to make sure the smaller one gets first go and and all it wants, but that's only a temporary solution since if it is a stress issue the problem's usually less about the quantity of food being eaten and more about it not digesting that food properly.

MrConfusedTurkey posted:

Noted. I can call my herp vet tomorrow and see how much getting one of those done would cost. I really appreciate the help. Does this mean they will both have problems, and do vets usually charge per sample?

If they're in the same cage and one has parasites, it's pretty certain they'll both have parasites. I don't know that I'd agree that they're likely to be wild-caught though, I've started to see quite a few juvenile painted agamas on the market. I've never really looked into them so it's possible people are catching and importing a lot of babies, but I usually take seeing a lot of babies on the market to mean people are breeding them. Though if wherever you got them from didn't specifically say captive bred, then yeah they're probably wild-caught.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2014 08:13

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

Noricae posted:

Ah, that's cute! Good to know. Also, resting her chin on any sort of rock-like object (like a mouse or blanket lump) means it's a good place to take a nap for a bit.

She's not too fat, right? Right?!

(Those are water spots from misting, not dirt! )

She's fat, but I don't think too fat. She's got about the hugest tail base I've ever seen on an alligator lizard, but she's lost the rest of her tail that's where all of her fat reserves are going to have to go.

Just out of curiosity, is she a southern or a Texas alligator lizard?

# ¿ Jan 27, 2014 07:22

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

Leperflesh posted:

If any of you guys are in northern california, I occasionally attend the quarterly gatherings of the Northern California Dendrobatid Society, which meets at Chuck's house where we have BBQ and yack about frogs and also lizards, insects, and Chuck's greyhounds.

... You don't by any chance ever go to the Central Valley Herp Society meetings, do you? Because if so we may have run into each other. If not I bet we at least know some of the same people.

Anyway here's my latest acquisition, a western shovel-nosed snake. He's still a bit human-shy so I don't have any good pictures yet, but here he is scarfing down a cricket.

I don't suppose anyone here has any experience with these guys? I talked to a few people who'd kept them before and read some stuff online and everything said pretty much just throw them in a terrarium with some sand, a heat pad, and some bugs and they'll do fine, but I tried to keep one last year and after a few months of seeming doing seemingly fine it abruptly died.

Here's some bonus pictures of my collared lizard pair going crazy over the alien concept of "water". Since they're desert lizards they always seem to have a weird and individual reaction to water. They're technically capable of getting all the water they need from their food, and some collareds I've kept will ignore water completely no matter how it's offered. Others will mostly ignore it but then every once in a while be like "oh hey I remember this stuff" and drink for five minutes straight. Here it just so happened that both the male and female got in the water mood at the same time.

# ¿ May 2, 2014 06:19

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

To me it looks like it might be a treefrog or chorus frog of some kind, but it also could be a baby toad. The picture's too bad to tell.

http://www.louisianaherps.com/order_anura.html
Go nuts.

Maybe this guy?
http://www.louisianaherps.com/cajun-chorus-frog-pseudacri.html

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 05:40

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

Black and white tegu, specifically. I'm not just stating the obvious, that's actually their common name.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2014 04:36

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

It should be noted tiger salamanders will be pretty bad pets for kids. Like OneTwentySix said they'll spend most of their time sitting inactive in their burrow, and like all amphibians you can't handle them too much because human skin oils will dry out their skin. Basically they'll be looking at a terrarium of moist dirt most of the time.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2014 09:50

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

PetCos (how do you pluralize that without it looking weird?) around here are having their $1/gallon terrarium sale again, that's a real good opportunity to pick up a terrarium for super cheap. Unless it's over already, which it might be, since I don't see any reference to it on their website.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2014 02:57

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 12:37

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

Thriding not getting a chameleon from a PetSmartCo, even carefully-bred chameleons stress out and are hard to keep healthy, the farmed ones are virtually dead lizards walking. Find a local reptile store if you decide to get one.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 07:37

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Pet Island > The Reptile and Amphibian Thread vol.2: how to deal with the cricket stink