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Apparently KIA is planning an EV called "Pop". It's ugly as sin, about the size of a smart car, and has a range of 100 miles. The good news it can recharge in 6hrs on 230V, or 30 minutes with "high voltage". BMW is looking for 700 individuals to test drive the Activee concept vehicle. Range of the vehicle is 100 miles, but what I find interesting about this car is that the lithium-ion batteries equipped with a liquid cooling system to maintain ideal temperature. In my opinion that shows BMW is not worried about cold weather performance.
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Jan 21, 2012 04:34
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Colonel Sanders posted:Range of the vehicle is 100 miles, but what I find interesting about this car is that the lithium-ion batteries equipped with a liquid cooling system to maintain ideal temperature. In my opinion that shows BMW is not worried about cold weather performance. It goes back to what grover said in the last thread: grover posted:I'm curious as to why everyone thinks EV cars' range is reduced in the cold. Batteries put out a lot of heat when used; so much so that EV cars have to have active cooling systems to keep them from overheating. Even if the batteries start out cold, they would quickly get up to operating temperature. I think a fairer statement would be that initial power is reduced when cold, not that range is reduced. A liquid cooling system doesn't have to run full-time, so before the pack warms up, it won't be trying to stay cool; it may use a trick like the Prius where it keeps hot coolant in a thermos after shutting down to help warm the engine up faster next time: motortrend posted:Okay, consider that behind the Prius's left headlamp is a three-liter stainless-steel vacuum-insulated coolant tank that accepts and stores coolant above 95 degrees F. Purpose? The engine's frequent starting and stopping makes it difficult for the exhaust to stay hot to light off the catalytic converter. Here, when the engine shuts down and begins to cool, hot coolant flows back into the head, keeping things toasty (indeed, the coolant can stay hot in the tank for days).
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Jan 21, 2012 18:06
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Elephanthead posted:I would like to know how I can get 440V service installed in my garage so I can charge this thing up in 30 minutes. Do I need three phase service or something exotic? Three phase is super expensive per month and cost prohibitive. How are these public charging stations connected? While higher amperage circuits are possible, you start to run into issues where you threaten overloading the home's service during peak demand times. Code comes into play at a certain point, but you can dodge it "legally" in most cases by using moderately sized receptacles and cord-and-plug loads. Also, you can use it for your welder 
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Jan 21, 2012 19:12
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Colonel Sanders posted:Apparently KIA is planning an EV called "Pop". It's ugly as sin, about the size of a smart car, and has a range of 100 miles. The good news it can recharge in 6hrs on 230V, or 30 minutes with "high voltage". Speaking of Smart cars, they've got an electric version in production. Specifically, one with a pathetically weak motor and no provision for charging in under eight hours. That might be forgivable if they were going for a low-cost alternative to the Leaf, but instead they're leasing it for $599 a month when you can lease a Leaf for about $350 a month.
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Jan 21, 2012 19:39
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Cockmaster posted:Speaking of Smart cars, they've got an electric version in production. Specifically, one with a pathetically weak motor and no provision for charging in under eight hours. That might be forgivable if they were going for a low-cost alternative to the Leaf, but instead they're leasing it for $599 a month when you can lease a Leaf for about $350 a month. Car and Driver have a pretty honest review of it. Smart is only leasing 250 of these in the US to test the waters. Next year, the much improved 70HP version arrives in Europe. Basically, Smart is releasing a lovely product to see if people might want to buy a slightly better product. The bad reviews the car receives might do more damage than it was worth just to lease out 250 cars in a year. I sometimes wonder if Smart's executives all worked for GM in the 1980s.
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Jan 21, 2012 21:23
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If I undertand right, Smart's executive's know nothing about designing cars but thought "hey we make a nice watch, lets make a car!  " (WTF?). After serveral automakers refused to touch the design Daimler-Benz agreed to produce the Smart.I still find it kinda amazing that a 8ft long 1,800lb car with a 1L 70hp motor can only get 38mpg. I suppose that explains why I saw a smart car in town and the license plate read "dumm".
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Jan 21, 2012 21:45
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Colonel Sanders posted:I still find it kinda amazing that a 8ft long 1,800lb car with a 1L 70hp motor can only get 38mpg. I suppose that explains why I saw a smart car in town and the license plate read "dumm". Seems completely in-character then, for them to make a lovely electric car and then use it to decide that nobody wants an electric car. Top tip guys - nobody wants a lovely product of any kind! Edit: except Smart cars, obviously. I guess maybe they figure people do want lovely products.
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Jan 21, 2012 22:29
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MadScientistWorking posted:None of the idiotic infrastructure is needed in comparison to electric vehicles. As it stands all gas stations are pretty much good to go for hydrogen fuel cars because cars sort of run on the same fuel that hydrogen fuel cells can. When most people refer to hydrogen fuel cells they refer to the fact that you are burning hydrogen but in the end it really doesn't matter where the hydrogen comes from. I kind of see your point but in reality to outfit a petrol station to supply Hydrogen requires every single piece of equipment be replaced with the H2 equivalent. You can't store H2 in metal tanks, it'll need new pumps & plumbing, there will also be some refrigeration or boil-off provision. The only thing a petrol station has that H2 needs is a forecourt & a register. I agree there needs to be major infrastructure changes to supply electrics, (battery swap stations or redox exchange stations or just plain old jumper-cables-to-the-transformer stations) just as for H2, the only benefit is H2 will be delivered by truck, electrics need a not-insignificant grid tie. The fun catch 22 is until there is a big enough requirement for either there won't be the supply. Yay. Anyway, I'm eager to see who comes out next with a mainstream electric vehicle, the Renault offerings look promising.
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Jan 21, 2012 23:15
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roomforthetuna posted:Yeah, I was shocked to find that 'Smart' cars are almost less fuel efficient than lumpy things like Nissan Cubes / Kia Souls - I thought the whole point of them was efficiency, but apparently it's actually "being cute/impractical" instead. Also more expensive to buy, so that's both the reasonable justifications for calling it "Smart" gone. It depends on where you are doing your driving. They're good 100% slow speed, stop start city but any type of medium-high speed running ruins the equation.
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Jan 21, 2012 23:19
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roomforthetuna posted:Yeah, I was shocked to find that 'Smart' cars are almost less fuel efficient than lumpy things like Nissan Cubes / Kia Souls - I thought the whole point of them was efficiency, but apparently it's actually "being cute/impractical" instead. Also more expensive to buy, so that's both the reasonable justifications for calling it "Smart" gone. Actually, Smart cars were originally designed for European cities where that size car is the norm, and you can park perpendicular to the street. There are plenty of places in the US that look as if something as small as a Smart car would be nice to have, but in practice its small size probably won't help you all that often (parking perpendicular to the street is generally illegal in the US, and you can't quite fit two Smart cars in an average parking space). The European version does get legitimately good gas mileage (something like 50-60mpg, I think), but the company apparently couldn't be bothered to make much effort to maintain that as they were adapting it for American emissions standards. Though at least the Smart was relatively inexpensive, which makes it all the more baffling that they'd make the electric version cost more than its primary competitor (which, in the eyes of many people, is already too expensive for what it does). The only logical explanation is that they're specifically targeting yuppie trendwhores who care more about appearing environmentally friendly than being environmentally friendly. Even then, I'm pretty sure a lot of those people would rather have something that's at least fairly pleasant to drive.
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Jan 22, 2012 03:26
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I saw a Leaf on the road today and it looks good. The taillights are a bit weird, though.
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Jan 22, 2012 04:51
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Cockmaster posted:Actually, Smart cars were originally designed for European cities where that size car is the norm, and you can park perpendicular to the street. There are plenty of places in the US that look as if something as small as a Smart car would be nice to have, but in practice its small size probably won't help you all that often (parking perpendicular to the street is generally illegal in the US, and you can't quite fit two Smart cars in an average parking space). Smart cars are sort of popular in NYC. You can't park it perpendicular, or at least I've never seen anyone try, but parking isn't lined so there's always a space big enough for your stupid little crapbox on every block. When I say "popular", I mean there are a few, the majority of residents crazy enough to own a car don't really care, any barge on wheels will do just fine.
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Jan 22, 2012 05:05
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Phone posted:I saw a Leaf on the road today and it looks good. The taillights are a bit weird, though. I've actually seen probably four or five different Leafs (leaves?  ) on the road at this point, maybe even more than that. Only a couple Volts.
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Jan 22, 2012 05:43
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IOwnCalculus posted:I've actually seen probably four or five different Leafs (leaves? Last time I was out driving in Miami I saw more Panameras than Priuses, and no real EVs or PHEVs.
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Jan 22, 2012 07:11
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IOwnCalculus posted:I've actually seen probably four or five different Leafs (leaves? I've seen a few leaves around the san francisco bay area, and they look a lot like versas, the first difference I see is the plug hatch on the front. I've actually seen a few Leafs and one Volt in Fresno, the home of the bro truck.
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Jan 22, 2012 09:25
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roomforthetuna posted:Yeah, I was shocked to find that 'Smart' cars are almost less fuel efficient than lumpy things like Nissan Cubes / Kia Souls - I thought the whole point of them was efficiency, but apparently it's actually "being cute/impractical" instead. Also more expensive to buy, so that's both the reasonable justifications for calling it "Smart" gone. You basically don't know what the gently caress you are talking about. Smart Fortwo: 2.5 - 2.7 m Kia Soul: 4.1 m Nissan Cube: 3.7 - 4.0 m In places without organized parking this is a godsend. That's almost a meter shorter than even the Citroën C1, Peugeot 107 and Toyota Aygo.
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Jan 22, 2012 13:18
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oddly enough most of the time i see a smart car, it's on the freeway. And yes, I do chuckle to myself every time. Sometimes I even point and laugh. What the gently caress are those people thinking?
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Jan 22, 2012 15:10
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Groda posted:You basically don't know what the gently caress you are talking about. In the US it's... Smart Fortwo: 12490, 34/38 MPG Kia Soul: 13900, 27/35 MPG Nissan Cube: 14980, 27/31 MPG I've actually heard that the Smart gets worse gas mileage than advertised. Phone fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jan 22, 2012 |
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Jan 22, 2012 16:26
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The gasoline version of the Fortwo also recommends 91 octane (or at least it did in '08), which I can guarantee you isn't helping the perception of performance because I suspect most people just jam 87 in there.
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Jan 22, 2012 16:43
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Don't forget, European cities have things like the G-Wiz running around as well as Smarts, so the trigger point for "Most pathetic sight ever seen on four wheels" is pushed back somewhat. I will say that the Smart is nice and roomy for its size thanks to only having the two seats. If you don't need any rear seats at all, it's a design element that makes sense over an Aygo or similar.
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Jan 22, 2012 17:26
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quote:smart talk I live in San Francisco, and I once saw a smart driver trying to parallel park in a spot too short for his car. An actual parking spot opened up, and when the driver got out of his car, I realized that the guy was 6'8" or taller, and a muni driver to boot. quote:EVs I'm curious about different power train configurations in EVs. It seems like there is so much potential in something like an active wheel in terms of simplicity of vehicle layout and construction, not to mention amazing all-wheel drive awesomeness. Why haven't we seen this on a production car yet? Extra useful on a small car, I would think.
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Jan 22, 2012 21:51
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Phone posted:In the US it's... Exactly - 34 is a lot better than 27. Remember its a city car designed to stay in the city so highway mileage is not exactly relevant - if you're worried about the highway numbers its the wrong car to be looking at anyway.
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Jan 22, 2012 22:40
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dissss posted:Exactly - 34 is a lot better than 27. Points about it being able to fit in a smaller space, which factor I had largely ignored, are valid, but that doesn't really seem pertinent in most of America. Which is why, to bring the conversation back on topic, it doesn't seem at all surprising that they would make 'Smart' EVs that suck, to test the waters.
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Jan 22, 2012 23:28
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I get your point and agree the Smart doesn't make a lot of sense in North America. That said in the conditions it is actually designed for (which don't necessarily exist in North America) it does get significantly better mileage than the other cars mentioned.
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Jan 22, 2012 23:36
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dissss posted:Exactly - 34 is a lot better than 27. Just using the figures given and the cost of gas when I filled up today ($3.45/gal), the difference between getting 27mpg in the city versus 34mpg is $8. But oh wait, the Smart takes 91+ (R+M/2), so let's recalculate: Smart at 34MPG with 93 octane fuel for a 300 mile trip: $33.09 Nameless car that gets 27MPG off of 87 octane over 300 miles: $38.33 So over the course of a year, we're looking at about a $260 dollars savings for driving an absolutely god awful car that doesn't achieve said 34MPG in the city.
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Jan 22, 2012 23:46
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Two words: Smart gearbox. That thing is terrible.
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Jan 23, 2012 09:03
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I did a google search on "Cheapest Rear-drive car with paddle shifters" and the Smart car came up as the answer. Not really what i had in mind...
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Jan 23, 2012 09:56
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Hermsgervørden posted:I live in San Francisco, and I once saw a smart driver trying to parallel park in a spot too short for his car. An actual parking spot opened up, and when the driver got out of his car, I realized that the guy was 6'8" or taller, and a muni driver to boot.
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Jan 23, 2012 18:13
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The (2011) Volt (or any EV in electric mode really, with no speaker) is a squirrel genocide machine. Hung out all weekend with a buddy who's a validation engineer testing new infotainment etc, and we probably killed half-dozen squirrels. They just don't hear the car coming and *squish*. Fun car to ride around in though! Sadly, the newer Volts have speakers/emit noise, so they are less effective squirrel crushers.  Also the bike-carrying Smart car with a bed at NAIAS was the funniest thing.
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Jan 23, 2012 19:08
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Hermsgervørden posted:I'm curious about different power train configurations in EVs. It seems like there is so much potential in something like an active wheel in terms of simplicity of vehicle layout and construction, not to mention amazing all-wheel drive awesomeness. Why haven't we seen this on a production car yet? Extra useful on a small car, I would think. The typical problem with motor-in-wheel designs is unsprung mass. Basically it's anything in the suspension or drivetrain that moves with the tire when going over a bump rather than moving with the chassis. Greater unsprung mass means the tire and suspension assembly can not react as quickly to changes in the road, so not only are more bumps transferred to the vehicle but the tire is also not kept in as firm of contact with the road while going over bumpy surfaces resulting in reduced traction and negative handling effects. This design seems like it might be a little bit better in that way with its internal suspension, but I don't really have the knowledge to make a worthwhile judgement. The one motor per wheel idea overall is pretty awesome though and I'm in favor of anything that brings us closer to it becoming a reality. I'm more in favor of an inboard motor design with the motors where the differentials are on normal vehicles just to avoid the whole unsprung mass problem, but the advantages of complete control of power distribution to all four corners are the same no matter where the motors are.
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Jan 23, 2012 19:55
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movax posted:The (2011) Volt (or any EV in electric mode really, with no speaker) is a squirrel genocide machine. Hung out all weekend with a buddy who's a validation engineer testing new infotainment etc, and we probably killed half-dozen squirrels. They just don't hear the car coming and *squish*. Fun car to ride around in though! Actually I have a 2012 and the alert noise is still driver initiated, so squish away 
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Jan 23, 2012 19:59
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Atasi posted:Actually I have a 2012 and the alert noise is still driver initiated, so squish away e: Oh hm that's just like a baby horn. I thought the thing was supposed to like make spaceship noises or something all the time. Lowclock fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jan 23, 2012 |
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Jan 23, 2012 20:14
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Lowclock posted:Wait so not only can you turn it off, but you have to turn it on? It's a button on the left side MFS, you press it and it makes a "chirping" sound, as seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-v-pMxmHLE&t=59s
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Jan 23, 2012 20:22
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I'll wait until they add the sound from the Jetsons' cars. Some of the Lexus hybrids already make a little beedle-beedle sound as you're stopping so they just need to figure that out and play it over the exterior speaker all the time.
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Jan 23, 2012 20:26
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Seat Safety Switch posted:I'll wait until they add the sound from the Jetsons' cars. Some of the Lexus hybrids already make a little beedle-beedle sound as you're stopping so they just need to figure that out and play it over the exterior speaker all the time. I'm trying to find this on youtube and all I'm coming up with is LF-A sounds.
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Jan 23, 2012 20:48
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wolrah posted:The one motor per wheel idea overall is pretty awesome though and I'm in favor of anything that brings us closer to it becoming a reality. I'm more in favor of an inboard motor design with the motors where the differentials are on normal vehicles just to avoid the whole unsprung mass problem, but the advantages of complete control of power distribution to all four corners are the same no matter where the motors are. I think what I would be most worried about is the performance of an a large inboard electric motor vs a tiny wheel motor.
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Jan 23, 2012 21:38
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wolrah posted:The typical problem with motor-in-wheel designs is unsprung mass. Basically it's anything in the suspension or drivetrain that moves with the tire when going over a bump rather than moving with the chassis. Greater unsprung mass means the tire and suspension assembly can not react as quickly to changes in the road, so not only are more bumps transferred to the vehicle but the tire is also not kept in as firm of contact with the road while going over bumpy surfaces resulting in reduced traction and negative handling effects. The unsprung mass would be a problem on in-wheel-motor cars with traditional suspensions, but the active wheel seems like it has the potential to nullify unsprung mass or even reduce it. Are there limitations of an active suspension that I'm not thinking of? Off the top of my head the only thing I can think of is a limited amount of travel, but then you just need to make the wheel bigger. Maybe the future of EV's is in 22" Rimzz. wikipedia posted:. . . replace the cast iron friction brake assembly with a wheel motor assembly of similar weight. This results in no net gain in unsprung weight and a car capable of braking up to 1G. A good example of this is the Michelin Active Wheel motor as fitted to the Heuliez Will that results in an unsprung weight of 35 kg on the front axle which compares favorably to a small car such as a Renault Clio that has 38 kg of unsprung weight on its front axle. Colonel Sanders posted:I think what I would be most worried about is the performance of an a large inboard electric motor vs a tiny wheel motor. I'd rather have four motors that put out equal HP to one big one and ditch the axels and so on.
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Jan 23, 2012 22:07
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BonzoESC posted:I'm trying to find this on youtube and all I'm coming up with is LF-A sounds. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jan 23, 2012 |
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Jan 23, 2012 22:17
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Seat Safety Switch posted:It's a very faint sound and I think it probably comes from the transmission during the changeover from gas to electric when stopping. It's pretty audible on my dad's HS250h, but it sounds a lot like a lower-pitched Jetsons car. Bweep-weep weep weep. I know what you're talking about, I'll bet it's the same on any Hybrid Synergy Drive because my Prius did it too.
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Jan 23, 2012 22:21
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Seat Safety Switch posted:It's a very faint sound and I think it probably comes from the transmission during the changeover from gas to electric when stopping. It's pretty audible on my dad's HS250h, but it sounds a lot like a lower-pitched Jetsons car. Bweep-weep weep weep. Oh yeah, the inverter noise. I was hoping it was something cool like the Fisker Karma: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_S8kc74Ed8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_S8kc74Ed8
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Jan 23, 2012 23:10
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