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Atasi posted:Actually I have a 2012 and the alert noise is still driver initiated, so squish away Ahh, gotcha. His is a weird hybrid of 2013/2014 electronics in a 2011 chassis, so I'm not entirely sure what belongs on what model. The navigation software/UI is awful though, why couldn't they just have licensed Garmin or something 
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Jan 24, 2012 03:44
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movax posted:Ahh, gotcha. His is a weird hybrid of 2013/2014 electronics in a 2011 chassis, so I'm not entirely sure what belongs on what model. Yeah I already had TomTom on my phone so I wasn't going to get it anyway, but after seeing the demo it is definitely not worth the price.
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Jan 24, 2012 04:31
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BonzoESC posted:Oh yeah, the inverter noise. I was hoping it was something cool like the Fisker Karma: That's pretty cool, sounds like an electric guitar at the end of a song with the strings un-muted just before it starts feeding back.
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Jan 24, 2012 14:44
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Blooot posted:Better Place is still going: http://www.betterplace.com/ I live right next to their main office. I'll grab a few pics next time I'm 'round.
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Jan 24, 2012 15:09
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Jared592 posted:That's pretty cool, sounds like an electric guitar at the end of a song with the strings un-muted just before it starts feeding back. 
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Jan 24, 2012 16:08
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Plug-in electric cars are probably going to take off more in Canada once everyone realizes that you can scam free gas from wherever you park by hooking up into the block heater outlet. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/01/canadian-condo-wont-let-chevrolet-volt-owner-charge-his-car/ That didn't take long!
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Jan 27, 2012 18:41
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Seat Safety Switch posted:http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/01/canadian-condo-wont-let-chevrolet-volt-owner-charge-his-car/ Condo boards, the only thing worse than HOAs.
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Jan 27, 2012 18:57
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I can sorta see the condo boards point, it's a new amount of overhead that people will need to keep track of, so individual meters per spot I can see happening in the future... that being said...an nice alternative is to get a kill-a-watt plug in device and use that to monitor power usage and adjust billing for that. Or just charge a flat rate based on the worse case scenario [$50/mo of extra power rent] and turn it into a profit point for the board, the condo board is being really short sighted about that... I'm kinda worried about one thing though, how is road tax / fuel tax is going to change in the future... as more people move off the grid, the taxation system isn't really setup to track mileage with the exception of truckers [IFTA]. There's a coworker here who got in on a early lease program for an electric BMW and was posting pictures of her charging station that was installed, and she converted her home to solar so shes more or less off the grid. Problem is she isn't paying road use tax in the traditional sense... so what happens now? I'm fine with taxation by mile, but they got to pick one system, either fuel tax or mileage but knowing the government they'll pick both. /edit I'm not calling for one, at least at this time until we get more EV's on the road first... Big K of Justice fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jan 27, 2012 |
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Jan 27, 2012 20:02
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Atasi posted:Condo boards, the only thing worse than HOAs. No poo poo. At least in AZ, while we have HOAs everywhere, they do pass the occasional sensible law (it's actually impossible for an HOA to stop you from installing solar panels, for example). The best part is since this isn't a HV charger, it really is drawing the same amount of power a block heater could draw, and one could argue that by prewarming the engine, they are in fact subsidizing the fuel use of other cars 
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Jan 27, 2012 20:13
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For road tax, personally I envision charging stations just like normal gas stations that will sell taxed electricity. Put a small tax on electricity at home too. Sure you might install solar power and avoid the gasoline or electric fueling station tax, avoid the home electricity tax, but a tax could still be applied to your solar panel or to your income tax. But if you do manage to avoid the tax how much money is lost? Unless your unfortunate enough to live in California or New York, the average fuel tax is about 40 cents per gallon. I believe the average number of miles driven per year is a little less than 14,000 miles, assuming average mileage of 20mpg that (14,000/12months/20years X .40 cents per gallon) that is $23/month or $280 per year in lost road tax. Even if you double the number (drive more miles, get lovely mileage, live in CA or whatever) I don't feel that is a lot of tax money lost. But above all, I believe most people are simply too lazy to invest in solar panels or brew their own bio-diesel or employ other such measures to avoid paying road tax.
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Jan 27, 2012 20:31
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It'd be awesome if there was a was to choose your own alert sounds for your EV. the Jetsons sound would get played out quick. I'd go for the speed buggy sound. Or maybe just an unending breathless blood curdling scream.
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Jan 27, 2012 20:51
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Colonel Sanders posted:For road tax, personally I envision charging stations just like normal gas stations that will sell taxed electricity. Put a small tax on electricity at home too. Sure you might install solar power and avoid the gasoline or electric fueling station tax, avoid the home electricity tax, but a tax could still be applied to your solar panel or to your income tax. Well when, or if, smart meters ever actually roll out it'll be dead simple to monitor which circuits are charging a car and tax accordingly. Edit: Speaking of car charging, check it bitches:  
Gynocentric Regime fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jan 27, 2012 |
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Jan 27, 2012 20:57
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BonzoESC posted:Oh yeah, the inverter noise. I was hoping it was something cool like the Fisker Karma: All I can think of hearing this is the Hypnotoad.
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Jan 28, 2012 00:27
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Colonel Sanders posted:In most of Europe fuel taxes make up something like 50-60% of the final price, so I for example pay like $60-70/month in taxes on gas alone. Of course they can raise taxes on electricity, but a) that would have to be quite a large increase to make up for the lost revenue, so b) car-less people would loving freak out c) owners of gas powered people would loving freak out They can raise taxes on solar panels but a) this will discourage adoption of renewable energy b) car-less people would loving freak out c) owners of gas powered people would loving freak out They can raise income taxes, but... (you see the pattern)
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Jan 28, 2012 00:36
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mobby_6kl posted:In most of Europe fuel taxes make up something like 50-60% of the final price, so I for example pay like $60-70/month in taxes on gas alone. Of course they can raise taxes on electricity, but How about they inspect your odometer when you renew for the year and tax you for every mile since the last reading?
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Jan 28, 2012 00:49
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tax on VMT clearly makes the most sense - and you could scale so the rate per 100 VMT for a 911 would be higher than the rate per 100 VMT for a leaf or whatever, but  gub mint caint tell me what to do with the car i done boughten with my own money! that's socialist!
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Jan 28, 2012 15:00
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I would not worry about running out of things that can be taxed. Forum posts should be taxed.
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Jan 28, 2012 15:13
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mobby_6kl posted:In most of Europe fuel taxes make up something like 50-60% of the final price, so I for example pay like $60-70/month in taxes on gas alone. Of course they can raise taxes on electricity, but The point of my post is simply that there are ways to get road tax without using a fuel tax. If you stop paying for gasoline, you should have to pay that $70 per month somewhere else, preferably vehicle travel related. The matter of whether or not Europe's fuel taxes are fair is a different  . I don't believe people should be taxed more but simply people should not be able to avoid the tax unless you want crappy roads everywhere. The solution to the problems you bring up? Make owning a gas vehicle a tax deduction.Tax on VMT is the most accurate way to tax individuals however also somewhat invasive. But at least that idea is not even half as invasive as the Dutch.
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Jan 28, 2012 16:26
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Atasi posted:Condo boards, the only thing worse than HOAs. This seems strange to me. My outlet for my parking stall is connected to my unit's circuit breaker, so all the power I use goes to my bill, not the condo corp's.
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Jan 28, 2012 18:26
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Colonel Sanders posted:Tax on VMT is the most accurate way to tax individuals however also somewhat invasive. But at least that idea is not even half as invasive as the Dutch. That plan was cancelled. Like the plan to tax based on road usage before it.
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Jan 28, 2012 21:54
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Options and pricing for the Tesla Model S have been posted: http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options You can get optional rumble seats for the kids, and also double the on-board charging circuits for faster charges: quote:Model S can charge from almost any outlet, anywhere. All Model S cars plug directly into 110 and 240 volt outlets as well as public charging stations using the included Universal Mobile Connector and adapters. The High Power Wall Connector, which installs in your garage, enables cars equipped with Twin Chargers to charge twice as fast as cars equipped with a Single Charger.
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Jan 31, 2012 05:40
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I am impressed with their range, the base 40KW battery goes 160 miles, and the 85KW model has 300 mile range. The downside is the starting price tag of $49K is comparable to a 5 series BMW, how does the Tesla Model S compare to a 5 series in terms of luxury and performance?
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Jan 31, 2012 16:17
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Colonel Sanders posted:The downside is the starting price tag of $49K is comparable to a 5 series BMW, how does the Tesla Model S compare to a 5 series in terms of luxury and performance? Tax incentives may make this irrelevant in certain markets. A colleague of mine who works as a independent contractor was showing me the tax incentives on a Opel Ampera the other day. The €45000 ampera ends up costing you ~20k and on top of that come additional incentives (like low taxation if you use it privately as well) and lower roadtaxes.
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Feb 1, 2012 19:26
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Starting price for a Tesla Model S Is $49k, with a US tax credit of $7500, still makes it very expensive. It's the first EV I've seen that I'd consider buying, though. Accelleration #s sound good (0-60 in 4.4 seconds for the sport, 6.5 for the normal), but no word yet on handling. How does handling compare to a BMW 5-series? I'd imagine the longrange battery packs equate to poo poo on the skidpad...
grover fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Feb 1, 2012 |
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Feb 1, 2012 19:41
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^^^ EVs are heavy as poo poo (the Leaf weighs as much as a 5 series, IIRC) so I'm not too optimistic about handling. I don't think it's going to be terrible, necessarily, but I doubt it would be comparable to the 5 series or the Panamera, say. As for the EV pricing, I actually change my mind recently. This image that was posted somewhere here before demonstrates why exactly: Nissan 370z:  If they can keep the price from ballooning in a similar fashion outside US by getting tariff/duty exceptions or whatever, the Model S would sell like loving hot cakes here. As you can probably imagine based on the above image, a poverty spec 5 series is exactly $50 grand here (CZ), as is the 3 series once you add a few toys. A loaded Model S would be amazing if it was in a similar range. Of course this is still mainly a rich-guy toy, and regular people are happy to have 10 year old econoboxes, but within this segment high-end EVs could be extremely competitive. Edit: obviously this doesn't make it more affordable for you guys, but it could be extremely important for Tesla and EVs in general. Edit 2: I was probably going by the E60 weights which were within 10kg or so. Given the size and class differences, I think the point still mostly stands mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Feb 1, 2012 |
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Feb 1, 2012 19:59
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Leaf: 3354 lbs F10: 3582 - 4034 lbs
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Feb 1, 2012 20:37
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grover posted:Starting price for a Tesla Model S Is $49k, with a US tax credit of $7500, still makes it very expensive. It's the first EV I've seen that I'd consider buying, though. Exactly; it's targeted at people who want the EV that doesn't look like a dorkmobile and are willing to pay for it, and is priced for that and also to keep the company alive until they make their next model of car. Unlike the Leaf, Tesla can't subsidize their research projects with Rogue and Murano sales.
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Feb 1, 2012 20:56
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Out of curiosity, is there a premium that people would be willing to pay for a commuter-range EV over a gasoline equivalent? I don't feel that this was adequately answered, because 99% of the time that this comes up people want to boil it down to a simple question of saving gas money. I have several reasons to pay a premium that have nothing to do with saving gas. In fact I would pay this premium just to have the electric drive I want, even if it gets it's power from a small generator motor. Which I'm convinced would net amazing economy but for sake of argument let's say it's even worse than 30mpg. Just listen to this: -Low end torque. The obvious number one. From 0 rpm you have full wheelspinability. -INSTANT throttle response. If you could twitch the throttle fast enough it'll chirp the tires 10 times a second like it's the drat ABS going off. No amount of lightened flywheels and other engine parts will ever come close to what an electric does naturally. (not to mention the control this provides to replace TCS and ABS systems) -smooth power delivery. Silky smooth, and 100% from 0 right on up to peak. No warming up, no hesistation or power peaks/valeys from worn out plugs or bad gas, no excuses. Always consistent power that lays on, a torque curve so flat you couldn't touch it with a modern V12. -Silent. Yeah I know all the noise and vibration is fun in a race car. Not for my daily driver. -reduced parts. This is an area where I am displeased with current electrics. Why? Because they still entertain the idea of having a transmission. Not needed. Single speed reduction, done. Virtually no driveline slop to reduce that instant throttle and smooth power experience. When it comes to moving parts there's just no comparison, the suspension will have more parts than the entire driveline. Sure there will still be a cooling system and related support parts, but from a moving part standpoint we are much better off. -Easier to fix. All of the electronics could be made like modern network equipment. Self-diagnosing, practically hot swappable. Unplug some wires, swap a module, done. Redundant drive systems would be too easy not to add as an option. -Driveline layout options. 2 small motors up front? Awesome that takes care of power steering too. And road crown compensation. One motor per wheel? even better, that's the perfect AWD. It would steer like magic. One big fattie motor to the rear wheels? Cool drifter, bro. Our options just got a lot easier. -Off grid. Having that battery pack would be so loving awesome for a camper. Or a work truck. Particularly with that generator option. To make average driving power you only need 25HP or so. Throttle response, torque range, max RPM, all irrelevant. This drat generator can be an aircooled 1L 3 cylinder 6 valve pushrod lump that just gets milled out of a solid block of metal without so much as a headgasket. The only rotating part to seal is the crank to the electric head. No accessories, belts, hoses. But a turbo miller cycle would be cool. OK I'm starting to drift off here. Hermsgervørden posted:The unsprung mass would be a problem on in-wheel-motor cars with traditional suspensions, but the active wheel seems like it has the potential to nullify unsprung mass or even reduce it. Are there limitations of an active suspension that I'm not thinking of? Off the top of my head the only thing I can think of is a limited amount of travel, but then you just need to make the wheel bigger. Maybe the future of EV's is in 22" Rimzz. I'm not with you on this one. For as much as I love deleting parts, I feel that we have to keep the halfshafts and put the motors inboard. This is both because motors contain a lot of weight in copper/magnets/etc, and because those materials would not handle the shock/vibration of being inside a wheel. Even just the electrical wire connection I would prefer to avoid all of that flexing movement. The number one cause of electric motor failure is bearings, easier to protect from dirt/crud if we put it inboard. The second cause, insulation failure from overheating or from physical stress (usually from distortion of the soft copper from the magnetic forces it creates). This could somewhat reduce the size of brakes needed as most would be done through the motors, but for low speed and safety redundancy they can't be deleted. I say low speed because below a certain speed there's no energy recovery, we'd have to actually power the motor to continue using it as a brake. This would not be the most energy efficient but could pretty much eliminate brake wear, and (assuming multiple motor) control braking forces on a per-wheel basis to influence steering/control in the same way as putting down power. Because of substantially reduced brake heat+use I would entertain the idea of inboard brakes or drums. Or at least review the pros and cons. A big rotor on the front wheel to lock it up is hard to give up though no matter how burly the electric is, but if it doesn't get used will rust and cause trouble. So yeah, sorry I started to drift into rant mode but there are clearly some advantages here that even $800k cars can't touch. The only disadvantage in my opinion is upfront cost and weight. So perhaps the track racer will have to go without, but for a commuter/work car that should last a minimum of 30 years with the priority on being reliable, obvious choice.
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Feb 2, 2012 01:58
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Wiglaf posted:This could somewhat reduce the size of brakes needed as most would be done through the motors, but for low speed and safety redundancy they can't be deleted. I say low speed because below a certain speed there's no energy recovery, we'd have to actually power the motor to continue using it as a brake. This would not be the most energy efficient but could pretty much eliminate brake wear, and (assuming multiple motor) control braking forces on a per-wheel basis to influence steering/control in the same way as putting down power. Because of substantially reduced brake heat+use I would entertain the idea of inboard brakes or drums. Or at least review the pros and cons. A big rotor on the front wheel to lock it up is hard to give up though no matter how burly the electric is, but if it doesn't get used will rust and cause trouble. The Prius has done this part for close to a decade: light braking is induction, heavy braking and low-speed braking is done with normal friction brakes. The brakes get used, but not enough to make them wear out in the first hundred thousand miles usually.
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Feb 2, 2012 04:07
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djdanno13 posted:Posting this from the last thread because it's pretty loving cool and got stuck on the last page. Jay Leno checks out the new Fisker. Oh man I'm so glad I checked this thread out. I saw this the other day whilst driving and had no friggin clue what it was.
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Feb 2, 2012 06:58
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Batteries as bodwork, anyone? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17014808
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Feb 14, 2012 00:24
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That does look like impressive technology but definitely something waaay out into the future. I mean the article did mention the capacity is "about a third that of a car battery, and a 10th that of the lithium-based", I think at its current level would is better suited to really light weight items, I could see it making a light watch. But back to applying to the battery to cars, I suspect the costs of body panels would be significantly more than current panels and so repairing a car would suck. On the other hand, I think cars today are becoming expensive to repair and somewhat disposable so I don't consider that a really bad issue. My big concern would be safety during the wreck, what will happen if you take fully charged body panels from two cars and slam them into each other - I doubt it would be pretty.
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Feb 14, 2012 01:07
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My first thought was also not good. Seems perfect for that little drone wing and perhaps some other things but without good density it might not be worth it for vehicles. I'm also quite skeptical of the charge/discharge rates, it might not be good for hybrid use either. Everything has it's use though. Aircraft are typically expensive, lightweight, full of exotic materials, and expected to fireball when crashed.
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Feb 14, 2012 02:58
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InitialDave posted:Batteries as bodwork, anyone? The problem is carbon fiber is a terrible terrible material for something that spends most of it's life on actual roads and not race tracks. Carbon fiber simply doesn't stand up to impacts and can be incredibly hard to repair. It's not automotive but carbon fiber has made tremendous inroads in high end bicycles but anyone who owns one knows the deal. Take a good spill and that 3,000 frame is loving toast. You're not even supposed to try and ride after a crash until the thing's been inspected by a professional and repair is difficult to impossible in some cases. It's the same thing in the automotive world, carbon fiber is found everywhere money and durability aren't issues like on real race cars and exotics.
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Feb 14, 2012 14:45
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I work only a few blocks from a Tesla shop that used to be the local Tesla dealership. This is a neighborhood in Seattle with a lot of software companies including Amazon, so there are a LOT of nerdy types. This morning I was walking to work and saw this:  Clever. 
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Feb 14, 2012 19:10
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Kenshin posted:I work only a few blocks from a Tesla shop that used to be the local Tesla dealership. This is a neighborhood in Seattle with a lot of software companies including Amazon, so there are a LOT of nerdy types. I think the papers you sign to get a Tesla include a clause that you must have a vanity plate that must be at least 800 milliClooneys of smug.
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Feb 14, 2012 21:15
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BonzoESC posted:I think the papers you sign to get a Tesla include a clause that you must have a vanity plate that must be at least 800 milliClooneys of smug. So what's the measurement on these?  
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Feb 15, 2012 00:08
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quote:http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/mugen-compete-2012-isle-man-tt/
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Feb 16, 2012 23:07
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http://theunderstatement.com/post/18030062041/its-a-brick-tesla-motors-devastating-design I wonder if insurance companies are going to have policies that cover accidental full battery discharge?
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Feb 22, 2012 15:27
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quote:Tesla’s Roadster Owners Manual [Full Zipped PDF] states that the battery should take approximately 11 weeks of inactivity to completely discharge [Page 5-2, Column 3: PDF]. However, that is from a full 100% charge. If the car has been driven first, say to be parked at an airport for a long trip, that time can be substantially reduced. The Prius traction battery can sit for nine months just fine: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3416077
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Feb 22, 2012 16:46
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