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BonzoESC posted:I'm a bit surprised there's nothing that cuts off the electronics after two weeks or so (just leaving the chemical self-discharge). Hell, even a manual "long term parking" switch which disconnects the battery under the hood or something would be better than allowing the car to destroy itself. Tesla SUV: 
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Feb 22, 2012 17:51
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it sounds to me like this is a problem with the battery control. Especially in the case where someone had usd a 100ft cord and the voltage drop was too big for a charge, I know for a fact that you could at least pull a low power trickle charge that might take forever but at least not kill the battery. Instead it just kept trying to boot it into sucking down 20A and giving up. Typical of a lot of chargers, but they should have spent a little more on charger features considering this scenario. Same with the monitor circuits that are a bit of a drain. Some type of storage mode would have been a good idea. We all know this happens with lead acids too, those cheapass solar panels you can stick in the window are enough to keep them from totally discharging and sulfating. Lithium doesn't discharge itself nearly as fast.. I'd think a little solar panel would be a good idea. Of course, then you'll have to hear people complain that it takes that solar panel a full month to charge the battery but hey at least it's not bricked.
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Feb 23, 2012 15:52
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Wiglaf posted:it sounds to me like this is a problem with the battery control. Using the 11 weeks from full charge mentioned on the blog and the 53kWh capacity of the battery gives roughly 28 watts as a continuous load (which would require a big solar panel), not counting the self discharge of the battery pack. That seems somewhat high, and makes me think that it really is a software problem if it's a real problem at all. That said, all batteries can be ruined by deep deep discharge.
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Feb 24, 2012 03:41
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Kenshin posted:
It'd be funnier if the car was just painted lime green instead of implying it's so eco-friendly.
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Feb 24, 2012 18:41
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Not having an automatic oh-poo poo-total-battery-saving-mode is a terrible oversight with those consequences. Having it text the gently caress out of you as a panic warning would also be useful.
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Feb 24, 2012 19:33
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Green sportscar needs food, badly. Green sportscar needs food, badly. Green sportscar needs food, badly. Green sportscar is about to die.
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Feb 24, 2012 20:00
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Red extension cord shot the food.
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Feb 24, 2012 20:03
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roomforthetuna posted:Red extension cord shot the food. Green sports car can't eat food through a straw.
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Feb 24, 2012 20:28
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davebo posted:It'd be funnier if the car was just painted lime green instead of implying it's so eco-friendly. About two days after I saw that image, I saw a yellow Sky with FFFF00 running around town.
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Feb 24, 2012 22:17
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Naffer posted:Using the 11 weeks from full charge mentioned on the blog and the 53kWh capacity of the battery gives roughly 28 watts as a continuous load (which would require a big solar panel), not counting the self discharge of the battery pack. That seems somewhat high, and makes me think that it really is a software problem if it's a real problem at all. 28W seems awfully high, those battery monitor circuits really don't pull that much. And the self discharge effect really shouldn't bee that high. Amazing. something is really wrong here.
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Feb 24, 2012 23:11
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Your average hobby-grade R/C car will automatically cut off battery drain when you run it too low for safety, why the hell doesn't the Tesla?
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Feb 25, 2012 00:38
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The undisclosed surveillance hardware that shows the dwindling battery voltage to the increasingly stressed out Tesla technicians that won't tell the customer probably draws some current as well.
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Feb 25, 2012 01:30
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There is more and more hybrid buses and refuse collection trucks popping up where i am (near London). Shame i'm not allowed to work on them, turns out you need to be an actual qualified electrician.
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Feb 25, 2012 13:26
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warcake posted:There is more and more hybrid buses and refuse collection trucks popping up where i am (near London). Shame i'm not allowed to work on them, turns out you need to be an actual qualified electrician. Dead maintenance workers are bad press.
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Feb 25, 2012 15:10
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Elephanthead posted:Dead maintenance workers are bad press. I did get the opportunity to drive a hybrid double deck bus, thing is loving silent and when you need the power the diesel engine will cut in for extra.
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Feb 25, 2012 15:31
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Ola posted:The undisclosed surveillance hardware that shows the dwindling battery voltage to the increasingly stressed out Tesla technicians that won't tell the customer probably draws some current as well. Is the undisclosed surveillance hardware going to draw more than an iPad that can idle on 3G for weeks on the built-in 8mm thick 25 watt hour battery?
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Feb 25, 2012 16:03
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Elephanthead posted:Dead maintenance workers are bad press. When our plant started making hybrids everyone who might come near a car with a battery had to take training on how to safely deal with the hv system, I still have the handbook somewhere. There are areas of the plant where the cleaners are allowed in but the MD isn't 
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Feb 25, 2012 17:13
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BonzoESC posted:Is the undisclosed surveillance hardware going to draw more than an iPad that can idle on 3G for weeks on the built-in 8mm thick 25 watt hour battery? I'm guessing the majority of it must be self discharge, or another way to look at it is not that 28W is getting used but just evaporating. It sounds like a lot because that sort of drain would kill a typical car battery in a few hours, but it's very small % of a 53kw battery. If we had more detail we might find that it's not linear.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery Self-discharge rate 8% at 21 °C 15% at 40 °C 31% at 60 °C (per month)[4] parked temperature would be 21C on a nice day.. so if it was full when parked.. 53,000wh. 8% of that is 4240W. if we subtract 8% of the full capacity each month instead of 8% of what's left (not sure which one but lets go worst case) month 2: 48,760wh month 3: 44,520wh.. obviously not half drained yet. this is averaging like 6w not 28w.
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Feb 25, 2012 18:04
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So somebody left an EV unplugged, somebody used a shoddy 100ft extension cord, someone shipped a car to a foreign country without making any preparations and proceeded to leave the EV unplugged, somebody else hosed up a BMW EV and then hosed up their Tesla EV and nobody knows anything about the 5th bricked Tesla. Considering Tesla warns owners about this, and the car notifies the owner and has an alarm, I find this hard to consider newsworthy.
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Feb 25, 2012 19:43
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Colonel Sanders posted:So somebody left an EV unplugged This is the big deal. If I go on holiday for three weeks and on day 1 a lightning strike trips the main circuit breaker, I come home to $100 of spoiled food in the freezer and $40,000 worth of damage to my car. This has to be preventable on the engineering stage. edit: that link says it can sit for months without damage...if so, that's fine.
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Feb 25, 2012 19:51
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Colonel Sanders posted:So somebody left an EV unplugged, somebody used a shoddy 100ft extension cord, someone shipped a car to a foreign country without making any preparations and proceeded to leave the EV unplugged, somebody else hosed up a BMW EV and then hosed up their Tesla EV and nobody knows anything about the 5th bricked Tesla. In that article it says that the batteries can last "weeks even months" without being plugged in, and then in the original article it says that it takes 11 weeks to discharge (assuming this means bricked). The only one that lists a specific time frame in the article says that it took 6 weeks to be bricked.
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Feb 25, 2012 20:58
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ppp posted:In that article it says that the batteries can last "weeks even months" without being plugged in, and then in the original article it says that it takes 11 weeks to discharge (assuming this means bricked). The only one that lists a specific time frame in the article says that it took 6 weeks to be bricked. The whole thing is turning into a PR mess for Tesla. It sounds like they tried to get out in front of it but couldn't. I'm sure they'll figure it out but it's going to be a problem going forward for all electric cars. Also keep in mind when responding to Colonel Sanders that he has a huge hard on for electric cars and isn't likely to admit anything is wrong with Tesla or electrics in general. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 25, 2012 22:41
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If the extension cord is to blame, why did the charger and/or car not throw an alert? Again, not that hard to make some circuitry that says "charge current should be X right now but is <X by more than acceptable margins, turn on a big red light and beep annoyingly"
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Feb 26, 2012 00:59
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I feel like any competent EE would have seen this coming ahead, and any precautions/systems they had in mind to this probably fell victim to tightening deadlines, idiotic managers, or any other stereotypical corporate bullshit.
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Feb 26, 2012 01:05
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movax posted:I feel like any competent EE would have seen this coming ahead, and any precautions/systems they had in mind to this probably fell victim to tightening deadlines, idiotic managers, or any other stereotypical corporate bullshit. Agreed; I am almost certain there are a number of people going, "I told you so" right about now.
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Feb 26, 2012 01:17
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IOwnCalculus posted:If the extension cord is to blame, why did the charger and/or car not throw an alert? Again, not that hard to make some circuitry that says "charge current should be X right now but is <X by more than acceptable margins, turn on a big red light and beep annoyingly"
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Feb 26, 2012 02:07
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Colonel Sanders posted:So somebody left an EV unplugged, somebody used a shoddy 100ft extension cord, someone shipped a car to a foreign country without making any preparations and proceeded to leave the EV unplugged, somebody else hosed up a BMW EV and then hosed up their Tesla EV and nobody knows anything about the 5th bricked Tesla. Yeah, I'm finding it hard to give a poo poo since it's a pretty clear case of RTFM.
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Feb 26, 2012 02:28
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I will admit it kinda sucks that you can not leave an EV unplugged for long periods of time. On the other hand, basic maintenance is a part of vehicle ownership. If I drove a car for 6 weeks with no oil there would be no question that the resulting damage would be my own fault. I feel Tesla has done enough to warn users about this, in multiple sections the manual states discharging the battery is bad and not covered by warranty, the car will message you if it is about to die. RTFM or pay the price I guess.
Not Wolverine fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Feb 26, 2012 |
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Feb 26, 2012 04:16
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Colonel Sanders posted:I will admit it kinda sucks that you can not leave an EV unplugged for long periods of time. On the other hand, basic maintenance is a part of vehicle ownership. If I drove a car for 6 weeks with no oil there would be no question that the resulting damage would be my own fault. I feel Tesla has done enough to warn users about this, in multiple sections the manual states discharging the battery is bad and not covered by warranty, the car will message you if it is about to die. RTFM or pay the price I guess. On the other hand, if you let a car sit for 6 weeks with no fluids or electricity, you would have to ... set the clock? Also, like I said above, the one person who has a timeline on how long they let their car sit (6 weeks) is well within the time period that Tesla brags about (weeks to months). The car simply didn't do what they said it should do.
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Feb 26, 2012 05:00
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ppp posted:The car simply didn't do what they said it should do. Actually, it does exactly what Tesla says it does: The battery will discharge if left unplugged, and over-discharge will damage the battery.
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Feb 26, 2012 06:19
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2ndclasscitizen posted:Actually, it does exactly what Tesla says it does: The battery will discharge if left unplugged, and over-discharge will damage the battery. "Tesla batteries can remain unplugged for weeks (even months), without reaching zero state of charge." "Lacking a built-in Tesla charger or a convenient power outlet, he left the car unplugged. Six weeks later his car was dead." Did you read the articles? Six weeks is barely more than a month.
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Feb 26, 2012 06:38
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ppp posted:"Tesla batteries can remain unplugged for weeks (even months), without reaching zero state of charge." Maybe they meant even months as in 2 (February), 4 (April), 6 (June), etc. You just can't leave it unplugged for a whole even month followed directly by an odd month :P
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Feb 26, 2012 06:56
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ppp posted:"Tesla batteries can remain unplugged for weeks (even months), without reaching zero state of charge." Yes I did. He left it unplugged with a battery that wasn't fully charged, of course it wasn't going to last the full length of time.
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Feb 26, 2012 08:33
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Colonel Sanders posted:I will admit it kinda sucks that you can not leave an EV unplugged for long periods of time. On the other hand, basic maintenance is a part of vehicle ownership. If I drove a car for 6 weeks with no oil there would be no question that the resulting damage would be my own fault. I feel Tesla has done enough to warn users about this, in multiple sections the manual states discharging the battery is bad and not covered by warranty, the car will message you if it is about to die. RTFM or pay the price I guess. This is kind of why I hope Zipcar-style EV rentals become more popular. A day or two isn't enough to ruin it, I won't have to care about the upkeep (it'll be contained in the rental cost), and I feel like I don't drive often enough to justify the kind of petrochemical-powered car I'd be happy with (i.e. not a Yaris or Rio). Renting a Leaf for a weekend for a couple hundred bucks that includes insurance and maybe 80 miles of power would solve most of my car issues.
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Feb 26, 2012 16:47
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Colonel Sanders posted:Considering Tesla warns owners about this, and the car notifies the owner and has an alarm, I find this hard to consider newsworthy. The Truth About Cars has a photo of the charging instructions buyers have to initial, and an explanation of battery thing: quote:- The Tesla Roadster’s battery, unlike those in the Nissan Leaf and Chevrolet Volt, is made up of 6831 “consumer commodity cells”, basically laptop or cellphone type cells that combine to make up the battery pack. These batteries use Cobalt Dioxide chemistry, which is the most energy dense, and prone to decaying with time as well as use. This is not the case in the Volt or Leaf, which use different chemistry. In addition, the “state of charge” used by the Tesla pack is different; when a Tesla range indicator displays “zero miles”, it could have 5 percent of the battery life left. If the car is then parked without charging, it may drain to zero, leaving the car “bricked”. A Volt, on the other hand, may actually have one half to one third of the battery pack’s life left upon displaying “zero miles”; it only uses 10.4 kW out of its 16kW battery. Exact figures for a Tesla battery weren’t available, but are said to be much higher.
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Feb 27, 2012 00:59
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I went and did a thing this weekend. It's only been two days, but I'm enjoying it so far.
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Feb 29, 2012 18:38
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duz posted:I went and did a thing this weekend. Yo post a full review after a bit
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Feb 29, 2012 19:06
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duz posted:I went and did a thing this weekend. Sup electric car buddy  Just curious, how much was your charger installation?
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Feb 29, 2012 19:09
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Atasi posted:Sup electric car buddy  That's the 120v trickle charger. I have to get the good charger preapproved by the power company for them to pay for 50% of it.
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Feb 29, 2012 19:10
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duz posted:
Sweet, my co-op wouldn't pay for squat; although they did recommend an electrician that did an excellent job for way less than I thought it would cost.
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Feb 29, 2012 19:20
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