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ijustam
Jun 20, 2005

Do you all have second cars for when you have to go beyond the range of the car? What's the insurance like on the Leaf?

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Not Wolverine
Jul 1, 2007
Duz, whats your impression of driving the Leaf as far as performance and handling? Did you consider other EVs or hybrids? I am not saying you made a bad choice or anything, just wondering what you thought about before buying.

Gynocentric Regime
Jun 9, 2010

by Cyrano4747
I don't, then again I have a Volt. I do know a couple of other EV owners up here and they both have pickups for hauling/fishing/hunting etc.

duz
Jul 11, 2005

Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost


ijustam posted:

Do you all have second cars for when you have to go beyond the range of the car? What's the insurance like on the Leaf?

I was car free for ~4 years but could and still can borrow a housemate's car if I really needed it, which was usually just for road trips to Austin. Probably still will be until there's quick chargers on I35. Insurance seems the same for any new car that's being financed, ie. expensive.

Colonel Sanders posted:

Duz, whats your impression of driving the Leaf as far as performance and handling? Did you consider other EVs or hybrids? I am not saying you made a bad choice or anything, just wondering what you thought about before buying.

It's been great after two days of commuting. No problems keeping up with traffic, which during rush hour varies between 25 and 65. I'll be trying to drive it more this weekend to get a feel for it. I only looked at the other EVs enough to not be impressed enough by them. A hybrid would've been my backup if test driving the Leaf showed it had issues, but it didn't, so that's what I ended up getting. Basically it boils down to I had money to burn and I hate driving, the Leaf felt worth the money and didn't feel like a chore to drive & maintain.

Nomex
Jul 17, 2002

Flame retarded.
Can you actually fit 4 adults comfortably in it?

oxbrain
Aug 18, 2005

Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and come on up to the mothership.
Does the leaf still have the ridiculous 15k mile/annual brake fluid flush in the maintenance schedule or have they updated that?

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.
College Slice
Please keep giving updates about the Leaf, good and bad. I really could see owning a pure electric one day as a DD.

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!

oxbrain posted:

Does the leaf still have the ridiculous 15k mile/annual brake fluid flush in the maintenance schedule or have they updated that?

I am not sure I'd complain about "some BS maintanace" just to get the car to a mechanic "sometimes." With a proper electric car (Leaf, EV1, etc..) you can really use it like an appliance, and most people would never know something was about to go wrong until it was to late.

I think it's a good idiot safety measure. without being hilariously expensive.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Regen brake system may require fancier fluid and such. Just think of it as the equivalent of an oil change :v:b

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!
Regen doesn't use the brakes at all.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Nerobro posted:

Regen doesn't use the brakes at all.

durr yeah :(

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





It has to be conductive brake fluid, amirite? :v:

wilfredmerriweathr
Jul 11, 2005
Only Amsoil makes brake fluid conductive enough for my EV!

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!

wilfredmerriweathr posted:

Only Amsoil makes brake fluid conductive enough for my EV!

Yeah, but they couldn't pay the certification fees anymore so they're not "approved".

Backov
Mar 28, 2010
This is pretty interesting:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=new-energy-dense-battery-could-enable-long-distance-electric-cars

They are claiming 400 watt hours per kilogram, which sounds impressive.

EVs might get pretty exciting pretty quick.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

If nothing goes wrong we might see these in 5 years, but absolutely no guarantee.

By see I mean hear a rumour they might bo into the next ev to be developed, which unfortunately means another 5 years.

Battery tech development & uptake is frustratingly slow.

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:

Backov posted:

This is pretty interesting:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=new-energy-dense-battery-could-enable-long-distance-electric-cars

They are claiming 400 watt hours per kilogram, which sounds impressive.

EVs might get pretty exciting pretty quick.
They're getting it to last 400 cycles, too, which is still an order of magnitude shy of where it really needs to be, but extraordinarily good for high-density batteries, which often so fragile that they only last a handful of charge cycles. Since this new tech is cost comparable to existing Li-Ions, but with twice the range (or the same range at half the cost), it will have a huge impact to the EV market. I'm cautiously optimistic that this one might actually make it to production :dance:

grover fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Mar 2, 2012

roomforthetuna
Mar 22, 2005

I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!
I wonder if such an advance would split the market in two - currently the range and price are both kind of at the sticking point, but if the battery tech gets double density at a lower price, then the target market could be split into daily commuters with the same range as current EVs but at a much lower price (and more efficient because lighter), and vehicles the same price as current EVs but with much longer range.

Denzine
Sep 2, 2011

One time, I did a thing.
What do you all think would it take to make an electric truck viable to the average truck owner?

I'd speculate myself but I lack expertise and familiarity.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

Ability to run it for 10 years without maintenance, not be 100% more expensive than an ICE truck, charge time under 10 minutes.

Seriously though, there are a couple of electric vans available in the uk & for a business running a set delivery route with a known distance, the ability to charge up overnight & the tax breaks based on CO2 emissions make them at least break even, just with a larger initial purchase price.

Bear in mind the uk used to be a leader in electric vehicles, we had 60,000 electric milk delivery trucks at one point :v:

funeral home DJ
Apr 21, 2003


Pillbug

Denzine posted:

What do you all think would it take to make an electric truck viable to the average truck owner?

I'd speculate myself but I lack expertise and familiarity.

Gobs of loving torque. Loads of it. No automatic transmissions to overheat/break when yanking something around. Possibly PTO/high voltage electrical connections in the field for welders, pumps, etc.

The only limiting factor at this point is battery capacity, but I can't help but wonder if someone like the electrical companies would be smart/bright enough to have electric trucks they can charge right off the power lines they're maintaining.

I have no clue at all about how realistic it is to have a medium voltage charger built directly into a truck. I'd imagine the transformer would have to be pretty significant, which would weigh the truck down. On the plus side you could realistically do an extremely quick charge over a lunch break and be ready to go, the downside being that if a linesman messes up making a connection to the lines it could be extremely dangerous.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

Cakefool posted:

Seriously though, there are a couple of electric vans available in the uk & for a business running a set delivery route with a known distance, the ability to charge up overnight & the tax breaks based on CO2 emissions make them at least break even, just with a larger initial purchase price.
TNT use them around my area.

roomforthetuna
Mar 22, 2005

I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Cakefool posted:

Seriously though, there are a couple of electric vans available in the uk & for a business running a set delivery route with a known distance, the ability to charge up overnight & the tax breaks based on CO2 emissions make them at least break even, just with a larger initial purchase price.

Bear in mind the uk used to be a leader in electric vehicles, we had 60,000 electric milk delivery trucks at one point :v:
Which is funny because fuel in the UK costs a shitload more than it does in the US too, and even with tax breaks and the practicality criteria bent to fit to vehicle it's still only coming out at "at least break even". :/

oxbrain
Aug 18, 2005

Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and come on up to the mothership.

Ripoff posted:

Gobs of loving torque. Loads of it. No automatic transmissions to overheat/break when yanking something around. Possibly PTO/high voltage electrical connections in the field for welders, pumps, etc.

I'm waiting for the first series hybrid, traction motor truck.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

roomforthetuna posted:

Which is funny because fuel in the UK costs a shitload more than it does in the US too, and even with tax breaks and the practicality criteria bent to fit to vehicle it's still only coming out at "at least break even". :/

Yup, thats the problem with dropping an additional £15k consumable component into a £15k product.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

oxbrain posted:

I'm waiting for the first series hybrid, traction motor truck.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

:) EVERYWHERE :)
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!

:kheldragar:

Consumer Reports is putting together an interesting Fisker review:

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/bad-karma--our-fisker-karma-plug-in-hybrid-breaks-down.html

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

Nokian tires, Lithium-titanate batteries, crazy Finns. 160 mph on ice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix8TN4jMAeo

Is that a Nissan body?

edit: oh my, the noise of the flyby at 0:15 made grown up things happen in my pants

Suburban Dad
Jan 10, 2007


Well what's attached to a leash that it made itself?
The punchline is the way that you've been fuckin' yourself




I drove a Volt this week and was pretty impressed with it. Very smooth and rides very well, even when the gasoline engine is running. We did mostly highway driving so I can't comment on much else like handling, etc. The interior and nav systems aren't too bad either, but we had trouble getting the voice commands to be understood properly. It's incredibly quiet and has a funny feature since it's so quiet...Under 40mph if you flash the headlights the horn pulses which is intended to alert pedestrians I guess. Overall I really liked it and would consider owning one as it seems like a great car first and a pretty decent EV that doesn't have the range problem that plagues others.

Suburban Dad fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Mar 25, 2012

ijustam
Jun 20, 2005

DreamOn13 posted:

I drove a Volt this week and was pretty impressed with it. Very smooth and rides very well, even when the gasoline engine is running. We did mostly highway driving so I can't comment on much else like handling, etc. The interior and nav systems aren't too bad either, but we had trouble getting the voice commands to be understood properly. It's incredibly quiet and has a funny feature since it's so quiet...Under 40mph if you flash the headlights the horn pulses which is intended to alert pedestrians I guess. Overall I really liked it and would consider owning one as it seems like a great car first and a pretty decent EV that doesn't have the range problem that plagues others.

When I drove a Lexus hybrid I was talking to the sales guy about the Volt (warning: I know he's pushing a Lexus agenda but he brought up a good point) and he said that since the Volt drains the batteries so often you're going to need new batteries more often. Is there truth to this? How discharged do the batteries become when the engine kicks on?

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

The Volt leaves a huge amount of capacity in the batteries when starting the ICE exactly for this reason. Might be something like 1/3 even? I don't think it would make a big difference over the constant charging/discharging in a regular hybrid.

I've sat in the (back of) the Volt in Geneva, and it was pretty decent, huge amount of space (compared to my MX-5). The dash/center console looked funny. The Ampera might have a better chance with the crazy gas prices here than the Volt does in the US, but it still hangs on pricing - if it's like €50k then the people dropping that much cash for a new car aren't going to be the ones most concerned about fuel efficiency.

grover
Jan 23, 2002

PEW PEW PEW
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:
:circlefap::circlefap::circlefap:

ijustam posted:

When I drove a Lexus hybrid I was talking to the sales guy about the Volt (warning: I know he's pushing a Lexus agenda but he brought up a good point) and he said that since the Volt drains the batteries so often you're going to need new batteries more often. Is there truth to this? How discharged do the batteries become when the engine kicks on?
The Volt extends battery life by never fully draining the batteries, never even close. It never fully charges them, either. In always maintaining the battery between 25-90% charged, the car only ever really uses 65% of what would normally be considered battery "capacity", but dramatically reduces the wear and tear of each charge/discharge cycle in the process. So, you only get about 10kWh out of that 16kWh battery, but the battery may last 8 years vice the 2 years that seems to be typical of every other li-ion battery I've used daily.

At some point, the battery will need to be replaced, but that's not likely something the first owner is going to have to worry about.

grover fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Mar 25, 2012

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

As lexus are Toyota I'll speak from a Toyota viewpoint - the Prius & associated technology keeps the battery within a 60-95% window at all times & it will go through a charge/discharge "cycle" every time you hoof it or use the brakes. This is the same behaviour you'll see in just about any hybrid so he was talking bullshit. Don't believe a single thing a salesman tells you, ever.

Edit: there are test mules & NY taxi prius that have well over 250k miles on the original batteries so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

cakesmith handyman fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Mar 25, 2012

Bardlebee
Feb 24, 2009

Im Blind.
If the forums are to be believed, Tesla has reservations for 10k+ model S vehicles. They can only make 6k this year (reportedly) so its looking pretty good for them. I think a lot of buyers (me included) are waiting to see if the care does well before reserving. With any luck Tesla could have the Model S reservation line all the way through 2013.

Pretty exciting stuff to see.

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

Cakefool posted:

As lexus are Toyota I'll speak from a Toyota viewpoint - the Prius & associated technology keeps the battery within a 60-95% window at all times & it will go through a charge/discharge "cycle" every time you hoof it or use the brakes. This is the same behaviour you'll see in just about any hybrid so he was talking bullshit. Don't believe a single thing a salesman tells you, ever.

Edit: there are test mules & NY taxi prius that have well over 250k miles on the original batteries so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Some Consumer Reports tests on the Prius too:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/february/cars/toyota-prius/overview/index.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/june/cars/toyota-prius/overview/index.htm

kronix
Jul 1, 2004



Bardlebee posted:

If the forums are to be believed, Tesla has reservations for 10k+ model S vehicles. They can only make 6k this year (reportedly) so its looking pretty good for them. I think a lot of buyers (me included) are waiting to see if the care does well before reserving. With any luck Tesla could have the Model S reservation line all the way through 2013.

Pretty exciting stuff to see.

I think the model S might be what does it for lots of people. An American company making a luxury electric has so much appeal it's not even funny. Cross your fingers they don't screw it up.

What makes me excited is that American companies are on the way to producing some of the most advanced and sought after cars in the world again, and that's something every North American can be happy about.

Bardlebee
Feb 24, 2009

Im Blind.

kronix posted:

I think the model S might be what does it for lots of people. An American company making a luxury electric has so much appeal it's not even funny. Cross your fingers they don't screw it up.

What makes me excited is that American companies are on the way to producing some of the most advanced and sought after cars in the world again, and that's something every North American can be happy about.

Tesla has so many patents on their electric vehicles, it makes me fantasize about the idea of them become one of the big American car companies in the future. Of course, this is a far fetched idea it makes you wonder though how the other larger companies will compete if/when electric vehicles take off.

I think a lot of the turn off is how ugly they are making the electric vehicles. I think maybe larger companies making the small and compact vehicles are doing so for the added mileage it gives you. But I don't want to buy a small compact and weird looking car, and I think many Americans feel the same way.

I know that Toyota will be using Tesla's powertrain and electric car technology in their Rav4 EV's soon to come out, the Model S won't be the only profit Tesla sees...

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

Elon Musk just tweeted this, a Tesla has rolled over 200000 km.



And still 66 km left of the charge! :eek:

I wonder if that's on the original battery pack...

Madurai
Jun 26, 2012

I have driven a Tesla Model S. I was so impressed it caused me to write like Dr. Manhattan.

Sunday, 24JUN2012

One of the crowd handlers is speaking through a microphone outside in the tents. He’s explaining how they’ve turned the Tesla factory into an amusement park for the weekend, and he’s correct. There is the same sense of a crowd looking just over everyone else’s head. Inoffensive popular music is playing in the background, and there are refreshments and shade waiting for those who have had too much of the mild Bay Area sun. Inside, the factory sits motionless, sterile; it’s a small world, after all, especially with the power off. No one is here to marvel at the pieces of cars being assembled. They’re all here for the park’s one ride.

An older woman is ahead of me in line, nodding at the familiarization briefing. She is wearing a matronly floral print and a twenty-thousand-dollar Cartier tank watch. My attention is divided between what I’m supposed to be listening to and the demonstrator cars swooping in and out with other test drives. They are liquid, silent, and hypnotic. The redshirted company handlers applaud each one as it arrives and departs. I drift forward with the crowd into switchback lanes as the next batch drifts in for orientation.

The redshirts are there to chat everyone up as we’re waiting our turn. Lanes of red carpeting line the loading chutes. I don’t make eye contact with any of them, and they understand. We all have other things to look at. My wife asks me if I’m excited. I say yes. I ask the gate guard which ones are the performance models, and he asks me if that’s the one I want to drive. I say yes again. One is arriving now. It is metallic gunmetal gray and the Audi-style LEDs surrounding the headlights make it look like a deep-water predator. My passengers pile in to the back; I wait briefly on the previous driver, who has forgotten something in the car. I’m buckled in.

It is TARDIS-huge inside. I adjust the seat down and back, and unlike every other car I can stop before I run out of adjustment. The redshirt copilot assigned to me tells me to adjust the steering column, too. I fight with the wheel for a minute before I figure out that the “release lever” is actually a joystick; it’s all power-adjustable. A multifunction display the size of a laptop screen takes up the center of the dash. It is filled with a scrolling Google Maps overhead view. A smaller display fills the space where the instrument cluster should be. The center of it is a combination speedometer/ammeter, and to either side are more multifunction repeaters. I fiddle with little wheels on the steering wheel that can set them, but before I really realize it, I am driving. Theatric applause fades behind us.

It does not feel like an American car. Nothing rattles, nothing squeaks. Nothing makes any sound whatsoever. The visibility out is not as bad as I’d feared. bethanye and Zach are already giggling at the redshirt’s sales pitch. He knows I’ve already reserved one, but has a script and is following it. The car reaches the start of the factory’s private road. There is a gray octagonal sign that reads FLOOR IT!

I press the pedal down. My vision narrows to a narrow cone. I am eight years old and dreaming of rockets. There is a whine as if someone is using an electric drill across the street. I am going eighty miles an hour. All the cars I lusted after as a teenager would be a second or more behind me. I lift off the pedal and am no longer light-headed, and the ammeter dips from amber to green, showing the braking system feeding power back to the battery. I take the curve at sixty-five. The car does not roll so much as a degree. There is a red light ahead, marking the transition to public roads. I drive the Model S out into the world.

I am driving over potholes, and nothing happens. I whip the wheel back and forth, trying to make the car rock; it refuses. There is no sensation of cams, or gears, or mechanical linkages of any kind. I am a telekinetic, steering with my brain. It is difficult to accept that this is not happening in a dream. I am Tron. I am Batman. I am merging onto 880. Without really trying, I’ve reached 65 by the beginning of the on-ramp. The GPS thinks I want to go to Tesla’s corporate office. The company copilot directs me back to the correct exit. I am welcomed with policy-mandated applause. I am out of the car and being whisked away for a photograph, again back in the amusement park. One of the “customer experience” redshirts asks me how it was. I tell her it was pretty good.

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redgubbinz
May 1, 2007

Madurai posted:

I have driven a Tesla Model S. I was so impressed it caused me to write like Dr. Manhattan.

You should submit this post to TTAC or something. Consider my incredibly cynical rear end interested in electric cars again.

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