The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread.

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Madurai: Jun 26, 2012

USAA Insurance rep, during the quote process: "How many cylinders is that?"

# ? Jan 15, 2013 21:04

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# ? May 7, 2024 15:59

G-Mach: Feb 6, 2011

tbb9 posted:

This is what I keep thinking about, it sounds amazing. Didn't Mitsubishi say the next generation Evo was going to be an EV

I wonder if Mitsubishi will even be in the US market by the time the supposed next EV "EVO" will come out.

# ? Jan 15, 2013 22:01

Elephanthead: Sep 11, 2008; Toilet Rascal

So what home chargers are people using I see 16 amp, 30 amp and some 50 amp ones. Why can't i just plug the car into a dryer outlet? What is inside these expensive charging stations? Seems like a scam that is keeping me from buying a leaf.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 05:12

Tyro: Nov 10, 2009

Elephanthead posted:

So what home chargers are people using I see 16 amp, 30 amp and some 50 amp ones. Why can't i just plug the car into a dryer outlet? What is inside these expensive charging stations? Seems like a scam that is keeping me from buying a leaf.

Dunno about the other cars but you can plug Teslas into NEMA outlets (dryer, welder, etc). I am sure someone makes a NEMA to J1772 adapter. If not that's a business opportunity...

# ? Jan 25, 2013 05:17

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

Elephanthead posted:

So what home chargers are people using I see 16 amp, 30 amp and some 50 amp ones. Why can't i just plug the car into a dryer outlet? What is inside these expensive charging stations? Seems like a scam that is keeping me from buying a leaf.

Probably just a safety gizmo.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 16:00

hifi: Jul 25, 2012

Elephanthead posted:

So what home chargers are people using I see 16 amp, 30 amp and some 50 amp ones. Why can't i just plug the car into a dryer outlet? What is inside these expensive charging stations? Seems like a scam that is keeping me from buying a leaf.

Looking at the Tesla website, there's nothing stopping you from plugging it into a 110V wall socket, except it's going to take forever to recharge. And at the other end of the power spectrum, you can throw 240V/40A at it with two chargers, which is more than an average dryer outlet will put out.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 16:50

doritos: Dec 6, 2010; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Elephanthead posted:

So what home chargers are people using I see 16 amp, 30 amp and some 50 amp ones. Why can't i just plug the car into a dryer outlet? What is inside these expensive charging stations? Seems like a scam that is keeping me from buying a leaf.

You want to pull 50 amp from a wall socket?

The scam is "not melting the wiring in your walls and setting your house on fire".

# ? Jan 25, 2013 17:52

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Elephanthead posted:

So what home chargers are people using I see 16 amp, 30 amp and some 50 amp ones. Why can't i just plug the car into a dryer outlet? What is inside these expensive charging stations? Seems like a scam that is keeping me from buying a leaf.

The battery doesn't know or care what kind of outlet it was just plugged into, it would just see 115 or 230V and would happily suck away for all it's worth until the breaker trips. The charging station regulates current flow to keep from tripping a breaker, and changes the voltage to whatever is standard for the car.

Not really any reason you couldn't plug the charging station into a dryer outlet, if one's convenient.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 18:18

DJ Commie: Feb 29, 2004; Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...

doritos posted:

You want to pull 50 amp from a wall socket?

The scam is "not melting the wiring in your walls and setting your house on fire".

You can buy a 50A socket from Home Depot and have it wired in easily enough.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 18:29

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

DJ Commie posted:

You can buy a 50A socket from Home Depot and have it wired in easily enough.

Yeah that sounds much cheaper/easier than just using the adapter for the car.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 18:30

Z3n: Jul 21, 2007; I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

Not quite the usual AI fare, but housemate just bought one of these:

Brammo Empulse R. He's commuting on it and has already had his first issue with it. :xd:

We'll see how they sort it out.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 23:07

Elephanthead: Sep 11, 2008; Toilet Rascal

I decided to not be lazy and have found out that the scam gizmo does a couple of things. 1. It disables the traction motor of the car so you can't drive off while plugged in. 2. Some of the wires tell a relay in the charger to close to supply current, i.e. your kid can't put their tongue on the end of the wire and die. 3. They tell you the car is charging and can display the charge percentage. It looks like you can get a 30 amp gizmo for 900 bucks or less. I just need to decide to bury conduit from the house or get a separate meter installed.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 23:14

Suqit: Apr 25, 2005; Stars Stripes Freedom Jozy
(Jozy not pictured here)

I've done a bunch of research and have finally decided to buy a Ford Fusion Energi, the plug in hybrid version of the Fusion.

I wanted to buy a Model S really badly but just couldn't justify it. Man they are gorgeous but they are pricey. Plus my wife's current car is a Saturn and I am sure that me buying a Tesla would cause the company to go under so you are all welcome for not getting one.

# ? Feb 10, 2013 19:51

Kenshin: Jan 10, 2007

Suqit posted:

I've done a bunch of research and have finally decided to buy a Ford Fusion Energi, the plug in hybrid version of the Fusion.

I wanted to buy a Model S really badly but just couldn't justify it. Man they are gorgeous but they are pricey. Plus my wife's current car is a Saturn and I am sure that me buying a Tesla would cause the company to go under so you are all welcome for not getting one.

I work one block from the Seattle Tesla dealership/mechanic shop and goddamn are you making the wrong choice. The Model S is so drat pretty. Such a beautiful sedan.

I will admit that the Fusion is a beautiful car in its own right. A buddy of mine just got a Fusion Hybrid in pale blue and it looks gorgeous.

# ? Feb 10, 2013 22:25

General_Failure: Apr 17, 2005

Kenshin posted:

I work one block from the Seattle Tesla dealership/mechanic shop and goddamn are you making the wrong choice. The Model S is so drat pretty. Such a beautiful sedan.

I will admit that the Fusion is a beautiful car in its own right. A buddy of mine just got a Fusion Hybrid in pale blue and it looks gorgeous.

Are you saying your business, or Ford? If it's the latter, go for broke. loving stupid cars.

# ? Feb 10, 2013 23:10

Suqit: Apr 25, 2005; Stars Stripes Freedom Jozy
(Jozy not pictured here)

Kenshin posted:

I work one block from the Seattle Tesla dealership/mechanic shop and goddamn are you making the wrong choice. The Model S is so drat pretty. Such a beautiful sedan.

I will admit that the Fusion is a beautiful car in its own right. A buddy of mine just got a Fusion Hybrid in pale blue and it looks gorgeous.

I'll PM you my PayPal and you can send the $30k difference to me.

# ? Feb 10, 2013 23:14

kimbo305: Jun 9, 2007; actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Shots fired indeed:
http://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-super-pissed-about-new-york-times-tesla-range-128299695
No matter how each side spins it, I love the fact that they have these data logs for everyone to see.
I know we're all nervous about that kind of logging appearing for every car in everyday usage, but I can't wait to see if other journos can reproduce a partial charge from a claimed full top-off, which I bet is the issue.

# ? Feb 11, 2013 21:48

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

It's better than that other guy got where the car just refused to let go of its charger and ended up stranding the writer.

http://jalopnik.com/5965858/this-is-what-happens-when-your-tesla-model-s-stops-working

It is pretty cool they will send Harry Tuttle to your house to fix it.

# ? Feb 12, 2013 06:28

Elephanthead: Sep 11, 2008; Toilet Rascal

I test drove a leaf overnight and drove it like a regular car, i.e. I didn't charge it, and I heated the car up about 6 times because it is cold out. I got slightly under 40 miles out of a charge at city speeds. I could see how a review in those circumstances could happen without being a lie. I am going with a prius plug in instead even though the range is tiny.

I can't afford a better electric then the leaf, drat kids.

Edit: I should note it was a used 2011 rental car with 5000 miles so its battery was probably abused and it was 10 degrees outside. Atypical operating situation, much like the Tesla review.

Elephanthead fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 12, 2013

# ? Feb 12, 2013 15:43

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

Elephanthead posted:

I test drove a leaf overnight and drove it like a regular car, i.e. I didn't charge it, and I heated the car up about 6 times because it is cold out. I got slightly under 40 miles out of a charge at city speeds. I could see how a review in those circumstances could happen without being a lie. I am going with a prius plug in instead even though the range is tiny.

I can't afford a better electric then the leaf, drat kids.

Mine's not been that bad, but freezing temps do put a noticeable dent into the battery life.

# ? Feb 12, 2013 16:30

aventari: Mar 20, 2001; I SWIFTLY PENETRATED YOUR MOMS MEAT TACO WHILE AGGRESSIVELY FONDLING THE UNDERSIDE OF YOUR DADS HAIRY BALLSACK, THEN RIPPED HIS SAUSAGE OFF AND RAMMED IT INTO YOUR MOMS TAILPIPE. I JIZZED FURIOUSLY, DEEP IN YOUR MOMS MEATY BURGER WHILE THRUSTING A ANSA MUFFLER UP MY GREASY TAILHOLE

Does anyone know of any EV car or bike companies or suppliers located in San Diego?

# ? Feb 13, 2013 20:24

InterceptorV8: Mar 9, 2004; Loaded up and trucking.We gonna do what they say cant be done.

Don't laugh at the question, but anyone know when they are making at EV that plugs into a 120v outlet?

# ? Feb 13, 2013 23:43

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

InterceptorV8 posted:

Don't laugh at the question, but anyone know when they are making at EV that plugs into a 120v outlet?

I think they all do, they just take a really long time to recharge that way.

# ? Feb 13, 2013 23:46

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

InterceptorV8 posted:

Don't laugh at the question, but anyone know when they are making at EV that plugs into a 120v outlet?

Are there ones that don't? I thought they all supported at the very least that, no matter how slow it charged on it.

# ? Feb 13, 2013 23:47

Suqit: Apr 25, 2005; Stars Stripes Freedom Jozy
(Jozy not pictured here)

InterceptorV8 posted:

Don't laugh at the question, but anyone know when they are making at EV that plugs into a 120v outlet?

Sorry but now matter how hard you try and regardless of how important your fuel economy numbers are to you, your MAXXforce won't plug into the wall.

# ? Feb 13, 2013 23:52

InterceptorV8: Mar 9, 2004; Loaded up and trucking.We gonna do what they say cant be done.

Suqit posted:

Sorry but now matter how hard you try and regardless of how important your fuel economy numbers are to you, your MAXXforce won't plug into the wall.

I have a MAXXforce?

:emo:

KozmoNaut posted:

I think they all do, they just take a really long time to recharge that way.

duz posted:

Are there ones that don't? I thought they all supported at the very least that, no matter how slow it charged on it.

I was watching the poo poo on the LEAF page and it was all "You need to pay $100 to have someone come out and blah blah blah..." and I'll be hosed if anyone says the recharge time @120v on their pages that is easy to get, hey we have round windows in our garage!

# ? Feb 14, 2013 00:03

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

InterceptorV8 posted:

I have a MAXXforce?

I was watching the poo poo on the LEAF page and it was all "You need to pay $100 to have someone come out and blah blah blah..." and I'll be hosed if anyone says the recharge time @120v on their pages that is easy to get, hey we have round windows in our garage!

Of course they want you to hire their contractor referral and get the fancy one installed, but it charges just fine at 5 mph on a 120v outlet.

# ? Feb 14, 2013 00:47

Tyro: Nov 10, 2009

duz posted:

it charges just fine at 5 mph on a 120v outlet.

Ditto the Model S. (But a NEMA outlet is a way better option and any electrician can install one)

# ? Feb 14, 2013 00:51

InterceptorV8: Mar 9, 2004; Loaded up and trucking.We gonna do what they say cant be done.

Tyro posted:

Ditto the Model S. (But a NEMA outlet is a way better option and any electrician can install one)

If one had 240v access that would be fine though.

# ? Feb 14, 2013 01:10

ReelBigLizard: Feb 27, 2003; Fallen Rib

kimbo305 posted:

Shots fired indeed:
http://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-super-pissed-about-new-york-times-tesla-range-128299695
No matter how each side spins it, I love the fact that they have these data logs for everyone to see.
I know we're all nervous about that kind of logging appearing for every car in everyday usage, but I can't wait to see if other journos can reproduce a partial charge from a claimed full top-off, which I bet is the issue.

UPDATE: Tesla have put up a breakdown of the logs and timeline, it's pretty loving damning:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive

Elon Musk posted:

Here is a summary of the key facts:

As the State of Charge log shows, the Model S battery never ran out of energy at any time, including when Broder called the flatbed truck.
The final leg of his trip was 61 miles and yet he disconnected the charge cable when the range display stated 32 miles. He did so expressly against the advice of Tesla personnel and in obvious violation of common sense.

In his article, Broder claims that "the car fell short of its projected range on the final leg." Then he bizarrely states that the screen showed "Est. remaining range: 32 miles" and the car traveled "51 miles," contradicting his own statement (see images below). The car actually did an admirable job exceeding its projected range. Had he not insisted on doing a nonstop 61-mile trip while staring at a screen that estimated half that range, all would have been well. He constructed a no-win scenario for any vehicle, electric or gasoline.

On that leg, he drove right past a public charge station while the car repeatedly warned him that it was very low on range.
Cruise control was never set to 54 mph as claimed in the article, nor did he limp along at 45 mph. Broder in fact drove at speeds from 65 mph to 81 mph for a majority of the trip and at an average cabin temperature setting of 72 F.

At the point in time that he claims to have turned the temperature down, he in fact turned the temperature up to 74 F.

The charge time on his second stop was 47 mins, going from -5 miles (reserve power) to 209 miles of Ideal or 185 miles of EPA Rated Range, not 58 mins as stated in the graphic attached to his article. Had Broder not deliberately turned off the Supercharger at 47 mins and actually spent 58 mins Supercharging, it would have been virtually impossible to run out of energy for the remainder of his stated journey.

For his first recharge, he charged the car to 90%. During the second Supercharge, despite almost running out of energy on the prior leg, he deliberately stopped charging at 72%. On the third leg, where he claimed the car ran out of energy, he stopped charging at 28%. Despite narrowly making each leg, he charged less and less each time. Why would anyone do that?

The above helps explain a unique peculiarity at the end of the second leg of Broder�s trip. When he first reached our Milford, Connecticut Supercharger, having driven the car hard and after taking an unplanned detour through downtown Manhattan to give his brother a ride, the display said "0 miles remaining." Instead of plugging in the car, he drove in circles for over half a mile in a tiny, 100-space parking lot. When the Model S valiantly refused to die, he eventually plugged it in. On the later legs, it is clear Broder was determined not to be foiled again.

ReelBigLizard fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Feb 14, 2013

# ? Feb 14, 2013 12:07

Method Loser: Oct 10, 2001

ReelBigLizard posted:

UPDATE: Tesla have put up a breakdown of the logs and timeline, it's pretty loving damning:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive

Oh wow, that's dishonest as gently caress on part of the NYT guy, if that's the true log, and I have no doubt to think otherwise. Shame on you, NYT.

# ? Feb 14, 2013 12:34

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

It seems like they learnt their lesson from the Top Gear debacle. Never trust a journalist.

# ? Feb 14, 2013 12:43

Coredump: Dec 1, 2002

I don't think I've ever read a post where someone got poo poo on so thoroughly. It was beautiful.

# ? Feb 14, 2013 14:31

Elephanthead: Sep 11, 2008; Toilet Rascal

So what is a used Think City worth? It looks like $6,000 to me but they are asking more then double that. By the way I got a separate panel installed in my garage for $1,500 that is connected straight to the grid. The utility ran the wires for free in order to rent me more charged electrons. 30% of that cost will be a tax credit for me. Now I just need a used charging station, (and a car).

# ? Feb 14, 2013 15:14

NOTinuyasha: Oct 17, 2006; The Great Twist

Broder writes almost exclusively about oil/energy issues, he was probably out to write a story about the hurdles that electric cars face, and wasn't concerned if he was able to personally reproduce specific issues with one specific product. But that wouldn't have worked in the context of a car review, so he bridged the gap with lies and bullshit.

# ? Feb 14, 2013 17:06

InterceptorV8: Mar 9, 2004; Loaded up and trucking.We gonna do what they say cant be done.

KozmoNaut posted:

Never trust a journalist.

Amen to that.

# ? Feb 14, 2013 18:57

Madurai: Jun 26, 2012

KozmoNaut posted:

It seems like they learnt their lesson from the Top Gear debacle. Never trust a journalist.

And unlike the Top Gear episode, they aren't coming off as petulant. If Tesla can publicize the rebuttal widely, it will be some marketing aikido that could really benefit them, instead.

# ? Feb 14, 2013 20:17

Applebees Appetizer: Jan 23, 2006

What happened with Top Gear?

Also saw the Mitsu EV today in the flesh, looks like a cool little car, perfect for the city.

# ? Feb 14, 2013 20:39

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

They scripted a bit (shocking!) in which they push an "out of charge" Roadster back into the garage.

# ? Feb 14, 2013 20:47

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# ? May 7, 2024 15:59

in_cahoots: Sep 12, 2011

I don't see Musk's claims as convincing, really. Driving 0.6 miles in a parking lot sounds like what you'd do if you missed the charging station, which is what Broder's claiming. This Atlantic article does a pretty good job of breaking the arguments down:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/02/elon-musks-data-doesnt-back-his-claims-new-york-times-fakery/62149/

# ? Feb 14, 2013 21:33

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