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Pvt Dancer posted:This explains pretty well how advances in battery technology are possible, but do not come close to anything you can burn. Although hydrogen is the worst of them, it's still way ahead of batteries (and can be made at home using electric power). article posted:Due to the theoretical limits of lead-acid batteries, there has been serious work on other approaches such as lithium-ion batteries, which usually involve the oxidation and reduction of carbon and a transition metal such as cobalt. These batteries have already improved upon the energy density of lead-acid batteries by a factor of about 6 to around 0.5 mega-joules per kilogram--a great improvement. But as currently designed, they have a theoretical energy density limit of about 2 mega-joules per kilogram. And if research regarding the substitution of silicon for carbon in the anodes is realized in a practical way, then the theoretical limit on lithium-ion batteries might break 3 mega-joules per kilogram. Therefore, the maximum theoretical potential of advanced lithium-ion batteries that haven't been demonstrated to work yet is still only about 6 percent of crude oil! To relate the articles to batteries in EVs, the article states current lithium-ion batteries have an energy density of 0.5 mega-joules per kilogram, or 1% of 50 mega-joules per kilogram for hydro carbons. The problem I have is your average gasoline car travels about 300 maybe 400 miles on a tank of gas. An EV like the Nissan Leaf can travel up to 100 miles, that is already 25% to 30% of the range, with a battery that stores about 1% of the energy per kilogram. So it's true that gasoline will store more energy, and it's also true that batteries can significantly increase their energy storage potentials. Batteries will not store more energy than gasoline cars, however because current EVs such as the leaf have achieved approximately 1/3 of the range with batteries that store 1% of the energy as gas. I believe it is safe to say that EV range will significantly increase to a point where the range is competitive with gasoline powered cars.
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Jan 20, 2012 17:42
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Apparently KIA is planning an EV called "Pop". It's ugly as sin, about the size of a smart car, and has a range of 100 miles. The good news it can recharge in 6hrs on 230V, or 30 minutes with "high voltage". BMW is looking for 700 individuals to test drive the Activee concept vehicle. Range of the vehicle is 100 miles, but what I find interesting about this car is that the lithium-ion batteries equipped with a liquid cooling system to maintain ideal temperature. In my opinion that shows BMW is not worried about cold weather performance.
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Jan 21, 2012 04:34
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If I undertand right, Smart's executive's know nothing about designing cars but thought "hey we make a nice watch, lets make a car!  " (WTF?). After serveral automakers refused to touch the design Daimler-Benz agreed to produce the Smart.I still find it kinda amazing that a 8ft long 1,800lb car with a 1L 70hp motor can only get 38mpg. I suppose that explains why I saw a smart car in town and the license plate read "dumm".
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Jan 21, 2012 21:45
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wolrah posted:The one motor per wheel idea overall is pretty awesome though and I'm in favor of anything that brings us closer to it becoming a reality. I'm more in favor of an inboard motor design with the motors where the differentials are on normal vehicles just to avoid the whole unsprung mass problem, but the advantages of complete control of power distribution to all four corners are the same no matter where the motors are. I think what I would be most worried about is the performance of an a large inboard electric motor vs a tiny wheel motor.
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Jan 23, 2012 21:38
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For road tax, personally I envision charging stations just like normal gas stations that will sell taxed electricity. Put a small tax on electricity at home too. Sure you might install solar power and avoid the gasoline or electric fueling station tax, avoid the home electricity tax, but a tax could still be applied to your solar panel or to your income tax. But if you do manage to avoid the tax how much money is lost? Unless your unfortunate enough to live in California or New York, the average fuel tax is about 40 cents per gallon. I believe the average number of miles driven per year is a little less than 14,000 miles, assuming average mileage of 20mpg that (14,000/12months/20years X .40 cents per gallon) that is $23/month or $280 per year in lost road tax. Even if you double the number (drive more miles, get lovely mileage, live in CA or whatever) I don't feel that is a lot of tax money lost. But above all, I believe most people are simply too lazy to invest in solar panels or brew their own bio-diesel or employ other such measures to avoid paying road tax.
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Jan 27, 2012 20:31
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mobby_6kl posted:In most of Europe fuel taxes make up something like 50-60% of the final price, so I for example pay like $60-70/month in taxes on gas alone. Of course they can raise taxes on electricity, but The point of my post is simply that there are ways to get road tax without using a fuel tax. If you stop paying for gasoline, you should have to pay that $70 per month somewhere else, preferably vehicle travel related. The matter of whether or not Europe's fuel taxes are fair is a different  . I don't believe people should be taxed more but simply people should not be able to avoid the tax unless you want crappy roads everywhere. The solution to the problems you bring up? Make owning a gas vehicle a tax deduction.Tax on VMT is the most accurate way to tax individuals however also somewhat invasive. But at least that idea is not even half as invasive as the Dutch.
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Jan 28, 2012 16:26
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I am impressed with their range, the base 40KW battery goes 160 miles, and the 85KW model has 300 mile range. The downside is the starting price tag of $49K is comparable to a 5 series BMW, how does the Tesla Model S compare to a 5 series in terms of luxury and performance?
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Jan 31, 2012 16:17
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That does look like impressive technology but definitely something waaay out into the future. I mean the article did mention the capacity is "about a third that of a car battery, and a 10th that of the lithium-based", I think at its current level would is better suited to really light weight items, I could see it making a light watch. But back to applying to the battery to cars, I suspect the costs of body panels would be significantly more than current panels and so repairing a car would suck. On the other hand, I think cars today are becoming expensive to repair and somewhat disposable so I don't consider that a really bad issue. My big concern would be safety during the wreck, what will happen if you take fully charged body panels from two cars and slam them into each other - I doubt it would be pretty.
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Feb 14, 2012 01:07
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So somebody left an EV unplugged, somebody used a shoddy 100ft extension cord, someone shipped a car to a foreign country without making any preparations and proceeded to leave the EV unplugged, somebody else hosed up a BMW EV and then hosed up their Tesla EV and nobody knows anything about the 5th bricked Tesla. Considering Tesla warns owners about this, and the car notifies the owner and has an alarm, I find this hard to consider newsworthy.
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Feb 25, 2012 19:43
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I will admit it kinda sucks that you can not leave an EV unplugged for long periods of time. On the other hand, basic maintenance is a part of vehicle ownership. If I drove a car for 6 weeks with no oil there would be no question that the resulting damage would be my own fault. I feel Tesla has done enough to warn users about this, in multiple sections the manual states discharging the battery is bad and not covered by warranty, the car will message you if it is about to die. RTFM or pay the price I guess.
Not Wolverine fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Feb 26, 2012 |
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Feb 26, 2012 04:16
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Duz, whats your impression of driving the Leaf as far as performance and handling? Did you consider other EVs or hybrids? I am not saying you made a bad choice or anything, just wondering what you thought about before buying.
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Feb 29, 2012 22:06
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Despite Broder ignoring RTFM, max range mode, range mode setting, effecient driving, not plugging in overnight, traveling on the coldest/worst possible day of the year, not even attempting to fully charge the car at the stations, blatantly lieing about his speed and reviewing the charging stations not the car, and the fact that 9 other Tesla owners made the same trip with only 1 car requiring a software update (yeah, that kinda sucks, but that is a hell of a lot better than ending on a flatbed), somehow the ignorant Margaret Sullivan had to consult with multiple people including Tesla owners and her mechanic friend in order to reach the conclusion that Broder was fair and Tesla placed the charging stations to far apart. Holy poo poo. . . 
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Feb 21, 2013 17:03
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How does the Tesla supercharger compare to CHAdeMO or J1772 Combo? I don't like the idea of yet another proprietary plug but it's not like people didn't see this coming with EV adoption. . . The good part is Tesla's network will at least ensure that there is 400V high amp power available at several sites across America, plopping in a CHAdeMO or J1772 Combo station next door shouldn't be too difficult. Yeah, it will take a lot of time and money to get alternative Lvl 3 charger in place, but I would assume the combined efforts of GM, Ford, Daimler, and every other company backing J1772 Combo might be tempted to change that.
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Jun 5, 2013 19:31
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eeenmachine posted:The thing you have to realize is that with electric cars (especially as capacity increases over time) you're charging at home (usually overnight) 95% of the time. That is why infrastructure needs are actually less needed than people think. Imagine how often you would visit a gas station if there was a gas hose in your garage that would fill up your tank every night. Well. . . My understanding of the current home charging is that your paying the bill, your also paying for a charging station to be installed in your house, and your wiring probably does not support 400V level 3 fast charging, your probably plugging in for 8hrs. Compare that to a Tesla where you can get a full charge, for free, in 20 minutes without any extra crap at home. But most important, you can travel across the continent in the Tesla, in a few years, and with 20 min stops every 200 miles. If stopping to recharge a Tesla takes 20 minutes, on average how long does it take to pump a tank of gas? I have never timed it myself, but I would guess that it takes between 3 to 5min to pump 10 gallons into my econobox. If I am on a long trip, I usually stop and go spend money on low quality junk food in the gas station, hell I could probably easily waste 20 minutes at a charging station. Rod Munch posted:We've had the same battles here at work. A year or year and a half ago it was fine as there was basically an old Rav4 EV, a couple Leafs, and an occasional Tesla roadster for 6 LVL2 chargers and a bunch of 110V outlets. When the Volts and Prius came suddenly there were no spots, and the Leaf commuters who were driving 25 miles were pissed with the Volts being driven by people living 5 or less miles away. Personally, I think that problem could be solved by putting a quick charge station a couple blocks/miles away from work and getting rid of the at work chargers. . . Or just run 110V outlets to every parking spot at work and loose the expensive(?) lvl 2 chargers. With the e-mail list, once someone e-mails you to say they are done charging, I assume that means they have to go move their car, and you move your car, or do the charges come with a cable long enough you can park near them and just switch the plug?
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Jun 5, 2013 22:53
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Cocoa Crispies posted:It's bad if you do it to a single cell, but Tesla uses battery packages with thousands of small cells to both make fast charging safer and to prevent Dreamliner-style battery fires, something Elon Musk loves to smugtweet about : This is a bit off topic, but what does the Dreamliner use batteries for? Power on the ground? Because I thought they could either keep the engines idling, or plug in to external power.
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Jun 7, 2013 00:17
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Squibbles posted:Plane designers are pretty obsessive about saving weight. Just look at the F35 story about the sacrifices they made just to save a few pounds. And that was just to save 11 lbs!! Yeah but that is more because the F-35 is an overprice horrendous piece of poo poo, jack of all trades, master of sucking at everything. Bring back the F-22 and F/A-18 please.
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Jun 7, 2013 18:06
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netwerk23 posted:Imagine you're driving from Boston to Miami in your Model S. You file your trip with Tesla and they recommend a few SuperChargers to get you there. Alas, there's no charger available right where you need one, maybe in the middle of Virginia or someplace. No problem, Tesla will monitor your vehicle remotely and dispatch a Tesla Rapid Response truck to your anticipated highway location, or a convenient rest stop. You pull in, the TRR crew swaps your battery in 5 minutes, you drive away. All for only $29 per assist. How long has it been since the last time you called AAA?  AAA's entire business revolves around recovering stranded cars by either providing a little gas, jump starting a battery (both easy) or towing and I know trying to convince AAA to tow a vehicle can take hours. I would be very impressed if Tesla could provide a decent nationwide rapid response team. As for interchangeable batteries, I think that is an awesome idea, the only lovely part is it will be proprietary to Tesla. I think swapping batteries is kinda the way to go in the future, it would also help get consumers over battery life fears, and I would imagine that older batteries could be recycled or reconditioned a lot better than just letting them rot in the cars/landfills. Besides slow adoption, would there soon be a black market for batteries? Crackheads will steal anything, and lithium kinda sounds like a valuable metal. grover posted:Head's up- the new NEC is going to require dedicated circuits and outlets for EV car chargers. Apparently it's causing too many overloaded circuits and NFPA is worried about the fire hazard. I wonder how much of that is caused by turn of the century houses where the only insulation left on the wires is the rat droppings. . . EDIT - will this require you to refit your house or is it just for new construction? Not Wolverine fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 21, 2013 |
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Jun 21, 2013 00:14
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Godholio posted:Our government had a program where you got paid to have your old car's engine destroyed as a way of promoting fuel efficiency. Nobody making these decisions gives a gently caress about people who enjoy cars or bikes. That wasn't in the name of fuel economy, that was a plot to stimulate the economy of Japan.
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Sep 22, 2013 02:25
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atomicthumbs posted:With all this stuff in the news (and affecting Tesla's stock prices) about the Tesla owner who ran over some metallic debris that punctured his battery, shorted it, and made it catch fire, I sure am glad I drive a gasoline-fueled car that cannot catch on fire. Gotta drive a nice, high quality safe gas burner, like a Pinto.  In similar news, solar panels also want to kill you. Now that global warming is completely 100% fake, lets all go back to paying ridiculous prices to destroy the environment.
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Oct 4, 2013 01:05
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Coredump posted:http://transporter.kinja.com/did-somebody-invent-a-long-range-ev-solution-20-years-a-1470740436 Yeah that author is a little too enthusiastic, but this guy must be onto something. . .  02BMW350 posted:I'm by no means an engineer. But couldn't you hook up an alternator so that the belt would go around the alternator and around the axle? So essentially the faster the rear axle spins, it would spin an alternator and create more electricity? Better yet, put one on each axle end so you have 4 alternators recharging the onboard battery packs. Is that feasible?
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Nov 24, 2013 22:47
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Cocoa Crispies posted:They're suggesting a perpetual motion machine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxHkAQRQUQ
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Nov 25, 2013 19:21
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West SAAB Story posted:The weather is still going to be pretty lovely some of the year - and I have no idea about his power grid reliability, but here in the midwest of the lower 48s, you will have at least 1/100th disruption per year on average - that is about 3 days and change. If you don't have power, heat, or a working car, you tend to get sort of hosed. Again, for a hyoog city, this is likely not all that problematic, since we survived the SFBA rolling blackouts of the late 90s. In five years I have had one three hour power outage, your power company sucks.
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Dec 19, 2013 01:45
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I don't know of a better thread for this, but is Sunfire/Audi's Blue Crude real? http://www.sciencealert.com/audi-have-successfully-made-diesel-fuel-from-air-and-water I just find it hard to believe that it is not either too good to be true, or too expensive to ever take off.
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May 10, 2015 16:49
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Collateral Damage posted:In that vein, why does every EV or hybrid on the market apart from the Teslas, Lexus hybrids and the i8 have to carry the looks of a low-budget piece of poo poo? I think you mean the Tesla looks like a booring real car, but the Prius and Insight look like space age toys because consumers associate the shape of the Prius with
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Jul 7, 2015 01:01
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