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Cocoa Crispies posted:From a friend of mine: Okay, so it starts in on it sooner than I thought - but that's a really smart way of doing it IMO. The fact that they let you delay it up to 24 hours should ideally give you enough notice to not bother plugging the car in for a bit... after all, if you have to run the engine, why not get some benefit from it?
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Jun 19, 2013 17:26
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grover posted:Head's up- the new NEC is going to require dedicated circuits and outlets for EV car chargers. Apparently it's causing too many overloaded circuits and NFPA is worried about the fire hazard. Is this just for 240V charging or are people managing to gently caress it up even on 120V circuits?
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Jun 21, 2013 00:29
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Another new and interesting development, which will possibly help out on the price of a used Leaf: Nissan will sell you a replacement / upgraded battery for $100/mo. Given that at least locally I can buy a used 2011 Leaf at a dealer advertising it at $17k, it sure makes it a bit more tempting when you won't have to eat a $8k lump sum to replace the battery, and you get a warranty with the new one too.
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Jun 21, 2013 01:04
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The Locator posted:Now, to get one of these stations in the Phoenix area, and get myself a gigantic pay raise so I can afford an S! This, or hopefully that baby-Tesla shows up sooner than later. Hell, I don't even care if it has battery swap capability if it can do an honest 100 miles instead of "80 if you cruise at 60mph with HVAC off". That said,  to Tesla. They're clearly devoted to providing an infrastructure answer to every fault people try to find with the idea of an electric car, and I think it will pay off for everyone.
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Jun 21, 2013 16:47
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The Locator posted:My round-trip commute with lunch is 110-115 miles per day, in the Phoenix heat. I really need 180'ish mile range to be reasonably comfortable considering electric (so I can actually do something other than straight home after work if I want to also). I'm about 50 miles round trip, but factor in errands, heavy HVAC usage, and battery degradation - especially on the Leaf - and that 80-odd mile range starts looking really tight, especially once the car is two or three years old. Wicaeed posted:Tesla would have to be IDIOTS to market a swap at 100 bucks. Why? Do you mean too expensive, or too cheap? I think it's a pretty fair price point (maybe slightly high but not too much so), especially when you consider that it's being presented as a means for people to drastically expedite their charge process versus the supercharger station immediately adjacent. Even if you think it's too high, you spend 99% of your time driving at a cost per mile drastically below that of a gas car (ignoring the cost of the car, or assuming you cross-shop the Model S against a S-Class / 7er like Tesla wants you to) and then on those 1% of trips where you need to fill up on your way and you just can't spend 20 minutes doing it, your cost for the trip increases to approximately gasoline level.
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Jun 22, 2013 06:56
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It is absolutely possible to deal with dealers remotely - my dad bought his Corvette from a dealer he has never actually set foot in (many many states away), though in that case they just popped the order into the system and had it delivered to a dealer near home. I'm thinking he had to have stuff notarized but I can't recall for the life of me since I had nothing to do with that process. I'll hit him up and ask.
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Jun 27, 2013 00:54
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Advent Horizon posted:Why can't I sign with a notary present and fax or FedEx the paperwork? Confirmed with my old man - in his case the dealer overnighted the paperwork to him, he signed it (doesn't remember if a notary was required), and overnighted it back.
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Jun 27, 2013 17:06
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Sounds like it's time to develop a Supercharger->CHAdeMO adapter 
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Jul 19, 2013 17:35
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eeenmachine posted:Tesla isn't slowing down: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2013/08/07/tesla-earnings-bad-news-for-the-bears/ The tricky thing here is apparently they are treating everyone who bought using Tesla's "lease" program, as if they bought the car outright - so instead of only counting the income in terms of the monthly payment, they are counting the full purchase price. Of course, it's also not a traditional lease.
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Aug 8, 2013 20:36
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eeenmachine posted:They record higher than 5 stars in testing (and they admit the Model S scored a record 5.4) but don't publicly publish anything higher than a 5. Above 5 is a thing, just not in scores published to the public. Yep, and since it seems that everyone else obeys NHTSA's "don't publish the fractionals" there's no way to verify whether or not anyone has ever managed to score, say, above 5.4.
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Aug 23, 2013 23:45
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roomforthetuna posted:Except where they say it was "a new combined record". According to Tesla, not the NHTSA, who is arguing that Tesla is poorly presenting the results. Either way, the Model S is clearly one damned safe car.
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Aug 24, 2013 04:34
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Advent Horizon posted:Even better: The DMV is only open during normal weekday hours. At least in AZ this was 'solved' by means of allowing third-party offices to do most DMV tasks at whatever time of day they choose. You do get to pay even more for it, but I'll take it for the few tasks that can't be done online, over sitting in line for hours at the real deal.
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Sep 24, 2013 00:26
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Does the EV mean the FJ will ever come out to play again?  I'll be interested to see what your long-term battery life is up there in AK. The only reason I don't have a Leaf now is because the warrantied minimum battery life, when factoring for highway driving and A/C blasting, isn't enough for me to commute both ways on a single charge (and there's too many people with confirmed degradation here in AZ). In other news, I guess the Soul EV is coming to the US too? No actual specs yet so there's not really much to discuss. I think if they can hit 100 miles range on the EPA test I might be able to comfortably commute in it, though.
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Oct 3, 2013 04:22
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Mortanis posted:Well, my boss has given permission for me to charge at work. Lucky. My company gave 'permission' but due to the paranoia over tripping over cables / the logistics and tax credits around installing actual EV charge infrastructure and parking spots, they gave a token / impossibly small budget to complete the task. If I could charge at work I'd probably be closing in on six months with a Leaf by now.
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Oct 11, 2013 22:37
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:If I had an electric car I could charge it at work on 440 Real men plug their Leaves straight into 12KV three-phase.  It's no matter of "is there power available", I think they literally approved something stupid like $50 for it which wouldn't even cover the wiring. And given the choice across the board of EVs, the Leaf is about third-to-last on my list, but it's the only one available in AZ with a proper lease program that makes the lease payment roughly equal my gas bills, and isn't a Smart or iQ. Hell, I'm not even sure if the latter two are available in AZ either. I'd take a Tesla in a heartbeat, but no amount of handwaving can come up with the actual cashflow needed for me to make that payment. The Fiat 500 EV would be good as well but it's coastal-only for now. For all of these places where people are running out of charge outlets... does nobody make an L2 (or even L1) EVSE that can take multiple cars and charge the second one when the first is done? Seems like you could have more cars present and at least partially charging if the limiting factor is how much power you want to run to your parking lot.
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Oct 11, 2013 23:42
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Mortanis posted:I'm not an electrician, but I'm going to assume there's no way to duplex 110v into 220v safely? You can't draw two separate 110v streams into a device that smooths out the current and merges them into clean 220v in a way that won't melt something somewhere in the home? Or is it a matter of limited amps at that point - volts go up, amps go down, making such power useless? This is actually possible, though probably a massive code violation. Residential service is almost universally split-phase. You get 110V or 120V when you go from either hot phase to neutral, and you get 220/240 when you go from one hot phase to the other. There are devices out there that will plug into two 110V outlets and give you a 240V receptacle; the trick is finding two 110V outlets that aren't on the same phase. It's a terrible idea because then you also need to make sure you aren't overloading two separate breakers, and not just one. Michael Scott posted:I hope to lord FSM that Tesla makes a lower priced model in the next decade ($15-30K). I would love for that to be my first car purchase. Pipe dream. Supposedly they are but it's at least 3 years away.
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Oct 16, 2013 17:33
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Journalistic integrity / responsibility takes a big back seat to MORE CLICKS AND AD VIEWS!!!! Of course, they could balance that by running a similar article every time a Honda Civic burns, for laughs.
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Nov 8, 2013 17:02
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So the Soul EV may have a 120 mile range. Interesting to see how it ends up actually scoring on the EPA range test, and what real world numbers end up like... but 20% range over a Leaf would mean I could do my ~50mi round trip commute on a single charge and have plenty of headroom for A/C, speeding, and battery degradation.
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Nov 11, 2013 21:26
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withak posted:What is wrong with that excuse? The fridge of Diet Mountain Dew running 24/7 under my desk probably consumes more power than an EV being charged off of 120V five days a week, and yet most people won't look at you funny for bringing in a cube fridge.
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Nov 15, 2013 04:40
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Because he went from an ancient 4WD truck to a very modern electric car. That truck is rated at 18MPG, and if there's anywhere it's going to perform worse (due to extended cold / open-loop operation), it's going to be Alaska. The Leaf is going to use about 1/5 of the amount of actual energy to drive the same distance as the B2600i. Given that AH also mentioned getting a special rate on his electricity, he's probably also paying about half the rate per kWh for electricity as he does for gasoline. Electricity can get damned cheap when you buy it off-peak, whereas gasoline is going to cost you roughly around 9 - 13 cents per kWh no matter when or where you buy it.
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Dec 18, 2013 21:13
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It's not like those numbers are absolute garbage, though. When I was working on whether or not a Leaf would be a suitable replacement for my Ranger, I'd go from ~240 a month in fuel and maintenance costs to ~280 a month in lease and electrical costs (about $40 of that being electricity). Yes, the Leaf is boring and arguably hideous, but I can't think of a nicer car I'd want jump into for a net increase of $40 a month. And before you say I'm ignoring maintenance on the Leaf, the only maintenance expected in the first year that wouldn't be a warrantied repair, would possibly be a set of tires (which was equally not figured into the Ranger since I hadn't bought tires for it at the time either).
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Dec 18, 2013 21:24
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West SAAB Story posted:On a purely financial metric, it doesn't look bad. It's the only metric that is going to sell EVs that are not Teslas. Teslas sell because by most accounts the Model S is an amazing car, and the customers that can afford them don't necessarily care all that much about the cost of ownership compared to the majority of the market.
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Dec 18, 2013 21:41
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CharlesM posted:edit: My friend says that the interior quality of the Tesla is not that great (panel gaps, button getting stuck on the showroom model, etc). Any thoughts on that? I haven't looked for myself besides a pre-production version which was pretty bad, but that was months before production started. No clue, I've never been closer to a Tesla than watching them drive around; for me it's pretty much just going off of press reviews, and the mainstream press seems to love it.
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Dec 18, 2013 22:08
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You could say the same thing about the lack of thermal management for the battery and probably get the same answer - cost savings.
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Dec 30, 2013 19:17
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Hillridge posted:That one is ok on range for me, but the top speed of 84 mph is a turn off. I'd have that thing maxed out for the entire highway portion of my commute. Do you know if ford is offering similar deals on the energi series? The other problem you will have is that the range is severely shortened if you're doing that sort of speed. It's true of gas cars too, but not so noticeable when you have 10+ gallons to work with instead of the equivalent of just under one.
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Jun 8, 2014 15:05
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Collateral Damage posted:The best part of the e-HD is the amount of teeth gnashing coming from the traditionalist Harley crowd. LOUD BATTERIES SAVE LIVES
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Jun 20, 2014 18:14
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Thwomp posted:Plus, if EV tax credits are still in effect, $35,000 would drop to lower than 30k after taxes. It's essentially priced to compete with the Volt (and other entry-level luxury cars like the 3-series). The flip side is that Tesla loves to account for credits in their pricing - so $35k may well be after all applicable credits, which would kinda suck 
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Jul 16, 2014 19:34
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rcman50166 posted:I'm a bit bummed out by the range numbers. It's in that not-so-spectacularly-impressive range at 200 miles. I'm not. The current crop of EVs makes excellent financial sense to anyone with a 25-30 mile one-way commute, but if you don't have a charger at work, it's just not viable. 100 miles EPA range turns into 60 miles real world range really quickly once you factor in highway cruising and HVAC usage, and that's before you account for battery aging. 200 miles, even at its most optimistic, would still leave me with plenty of range for a 50 mile round trip 70MPH commute, A/C blasting in the summer, plus errands on the way. I can deal with not using it for road trips.
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Jul 16, 2014 19:42
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Hillridge posted:Here's some real world numbers from my first month of Volt ownership: Nice. Part of that is GM being smarter than Nissan about cooling the battery, part of it is that the Volt doesn't use anywhere near full capacity of the battery to reach its rated range. Leaf owners in AZ have done their own testing and even with minimal HVAC use and hypermiling driving, you get about 60-odd miles on a charge. The volt is certainly tempting but it does have one drawback in AZ. It doesn't count as an alternative fuel vehicle, so no HOV plates for it (unless you have the no longer issued Hybrid plate and can convince the MVD to move it).
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Jul 17, 2014 14:18
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I think in anything other than a Model S that would be time to rent/borrow a car. If the cabin has at least 120V service, though, you can still get some charge into the car.
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Jul 20, 2014 00:28
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Madurai posted:Elon Musk ready to "unveil the D" Well, if Ford won't let him have "S E X", he might as well whip out his D anyway.
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Oct 2, 2014 04:32
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One massive difference - batteries won't require any sort of emissions recertification. They also have a relatively simple interface with the vehicle. Aside from whatever bolts physically mount it, it just has some high voltage / high current power connectors, and some low voltage data connectors. If they integrate the control logic with the battery itself, you could easily update it whenever you update the battery as well (if an update is even needed). Also, range extension is a super hot issue for an EV owner. Swapping out a 225hp 4.6L for a 400hp 5.0L might be a really nice upgrade for a Mustang performance wise, but when driven at low throttle the car is still going to be pretty much the same. Bumping the real world range on a Leaf from 70 miles to 100 miles is a huge improvement.
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Jan 4, 2015 01:38
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Yeah, a battery swap is not going to be the sort of thing a DIY could really handle, but at a dealership with trained techs I would expect it to be much easier than, say, an engine and transmission swap. Really what it will come down to is whether or not a given manufacturer is willing to put out better batteries for old EVs. If they can find a way to make money on it (since it is such a big percentage of the cost of a car) it might make sense after all. Think of it this way. If Nissan sells you a Leaf today, and every three to five years they sell you a massively upgraded battery at 1/3 of the cost of the Leaf, then they've come out way ahead of the scenario where you buy a Leaf today, but buy a Focus Electric in five years because the range on your old Leaf battery sucks now.
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Jan 4, 2015 06:33
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I'd wager that they go higher total capacity. Going with lower cell counts or smaller cells just to keep the whole pack capacity the same could reduce the amount of current available for peak loads. The other alternative is they use newer cells with more total capacity, but start artificially limiting the max and min charge states to give the same effective range. It wouldn't improve the day to day, but it would increase the effective lifespan of the pack considerably. It's what the Volt does, and is part of why most of them have seen little to no reduction in usable EV range even after a few years.
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Jan 4, 2015 16:07
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angryrobots posted:The new EV's don't already do this? Volt is the only one? Not nearly to the extent of the Volt, no. The Leaf uses drat near all of its possible electric capacity out of the gate, and there's a very noticeable reduction in range in as short as one to two years in hot climates. Cocoa Crispies posted:I'm pretty sure all the modern EVs and hybrids. Consumer Reports tested a 200,000 mile, nine-year-old Prius with its original battery and found that the battery wear was mostly insignificant Like the Volt, it's a hybrid. Thus, it does not depend on the HV battery for all of its range, so it would make sense that Toyota would program it very conservatively. The benefit of a Prius is that it has battery available to assist, but it never needs to use much energy from the battery at any one point in time. Thus, the benefit of fully charging (then discharging) the battery would be minimal - look at how little the plug-in Prius gains over the regular one.
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Jan 5, 2015 17:07
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duz posted:I live in south Texas so the Leaf spends much of the year in 100+ degree heat. I lost one bar after two years and seem to be losing 5-10 miles per year. I think some drivers in AZ are seeing worse than that. At any rate, since my commute is within 10mi of the realistic highway range when new round-trip (without even factoring in HVAC) and they won't let me plug in at work (I tried), the Leaf is an ever so tantalizing option that just isn't quite there for me.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:18
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MrYenko posted:I just wish they'd give us the option to turn off the slow speed creep "feature." If I want the godamned car to move, I have a pedal for that. No poo poo. At least some get it better than others - neither the Prius nor the Leaf felt unusual to me, but the i8 felt like it was trying to launch over the parking end stop. Not a good feeling in a car that expensive.
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Jan 13, 2015 18:20
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Mange Mite posted:You might as well say "well it's easy to replace the headlights in this car, all you need to do is drop the engine then screw the light bulbs in." Sure, if the car was designed from the get-go to have the engine easily removed by a custom-designed robotic engine-swap station. The Tesla battery swap is effectively a mechanized verison of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP5NezZdGhw If you simplify the task at hand enough and design a mechanism that can perform that task repeatedly and reliably, you can cut the time for what would otherwise be a "major repair" into next to nothing. IOwnCalculus fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jan 29, 2015 |
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Jan 29, 2015 20:11
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blugu64 posted:Aren't those quick battery swaps going to run in to some issues after the cars aren't brand new, been through some north eastern winters, and owned/cared for by bubba? It'll be a drat long time before "bubba" gets to care for a Model S, but valid point on the road salt fears. Perhaps that'd be a reason to go get it done once in a while? I don't know. Mange Mite posted:Yeah except that guy said that they've "solved the problem" when what they've actually done is made an expensive highly specialized system that iwll likely be pretty finicky and require a ton of maintenance. Which combined with the significant up-front price and quiestionable long-term utility this makes it a lot harder to create a network or do it at any sort of reasonable price. And it also does nothing to solve the existing infrastructure problems in terms of how the batteries will be charged in the first place. Just about everything you've said there could be said about the auto industry as a whole in its infancy, before the Model T got cheap enough for drat near everyone to get their hands on. No, these solutions are not easily scaled, they aren't simple, and the form they exist in today is probably not what they're going to be long-term. But it's still more of a solution than we had five, ten, or twenty years ago.
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Jan 29, 2015 20:56
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I was thinking about that the other day - imagine if we were just now rolling out oil-based fuels to cars today. You'd be considered a lunatic for wanting to offer multiple grades (let alone diesel), for letting people handle a volatile and toxic chemical, and you'd definitely need something more secure than a tube you vaguely poke into another tube to transfer it.
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Feb 2, 2015 06:34
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