The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread.

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roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

I think the cost is more the issue than the range - the range is already perfectly good for a commuter car, but pure electric cars cost about $10k more than their equivalent regular car. Even if it was completely free to charge the battery, which it's not, and even if the batteries didn't need replacing after not all that long, which they do, it would still take 8 years of daily 30 mile commutes to redeem that $10k in unpurchased gasoline.

If the cost could be brought down to equal to the cost of a regular car, I would buy an EV right now. If the range went up and/or weight went down and/or charging time went down, and the cost stayed the same, I still wouldn't be interested.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2012 20:02

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 13:52

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Compressed air cars seem like a more feasible idea than hydrogen, at the current technology level. The hardware is cheap and the charger is basically a big compressor. But currently it's got about a 50 mile range running solo and production seems to have been shut down by problems with getting too cold from the rapid decompression. It would make a great hybrid with other tech that normally gets too hot! (But of course as soon as you go hybrid you're necessarily going more expensive - just compressed air driven is apparently cheaper to build than a regular engine.)

All the companies that were touting compressed air cars have either vanished or removed all mention of it from their pages now, though, except this one.

Much like Hydrogen, it has the problem of being relatively inefficient to charge - apparently 6 times less efficient than just charging a battery - but that's still cheaper than running on gas, and avoids the $10k up front cost and expensive battery-replacing of batteries.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2012 23:29

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Nomex posted:

The problem with compressed air is you need a large tank and really high pressure to get any kind of meaningful power output. Big, high pressure tank = big, high pressure explosion in the case of an accident.

They were reporting that in test collisions it was proving less dangerous than gasoline engines, but obviously they'd be biased.

quote:

Out of curiosity, is there a premium that people would be willing to pay for a commuter-range EV over a gasoline equivalent?

For me it would be a fairly simple calculation - if it's unlikely to pay for itself over the ownership-lifetime of a car then it's out. And you have to roll into that the opportunity cost or interest/inflation - an extra $4000 up front is not even nearly the same as an extra $4000 in fuel costs spread out over five years. It's more like you'd need to [expect to] save $5000-$6000 over five years to justify throwing down another $4000 up front. Which puts the premium I'd be willing to pay about where you said - $24k for an EV version of a $21k vehicle is reasonably likely to pay for itself over the ownership-lifetime, so the threshold is somewhere around there.

(Though I'm generally not inclined to buy a brand new vehicle anyway for similarly calculated reasons.)

(Edit: I guess a little higher might be okay because the extra premium you add up front does kind of go in your 'car equity', which extra fuel costs doesn't.)

# ¿ Jan 20, 2012 01:47

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Colonel Sanders posted:

I still find it kinda amazing that a 8ft long 1,800lb car with a 1L 70hp motor can only get 38mpg. I suppose that explains why I saw a smart car in town and the license plate read "dumm".

Yeah, I was shocked to find that 'Smart' cars are almost less fuel efficient than lumpy things like Nissan Cubes / Kia Souls - I thought the whole point of them was efficiency, but apparently it's actually "being cute/impractical" instead. Also more expensive to buy, so that's both the reasonable justifications for calling it "Smart" gone.

Seems completely in-character then, for them to make a lovely electric car and then use it to decide that nobody wants an electric car. Top tip guys - nobody wants a lovely product of any kind! Edit: except Smart cars, obviously. I guess maybe they figure people do want lovely products.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2012 22:29

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

dissss posted:

Exactly - 34 is a lot better than 27.

Remember its a city car designed to stay in the city so highway mileage is not exactly relevant - if you're worried about the highway numbers its the wrong car to be looking at anyway.

Except, like Phone said, they reportedly don't actually get the advertised mileage. And I did say "almost worse than" - I realize it does still do slightly better even in practice, but it's not "vehicle that is half the size and costs 50% more" better, and I was deliberately comparing against vehicles that aren't actually all that efficient to make that point. You can get cheaper cars with larger interiors, better gas mileage, and better warranties (that was another thing, the Smart warranty is a loving joke), but my point was that even if you go in comparing against vehicles that aren't supposed to be good value or efficient the Smart still doesn't come out smelling of roses.

Points about it being able to fit in a smaller space, which factor I had largely ignored, are valid, but that doesn't really seem pertinent in most of America.

Which is why, to bring the conversation back on topic, it doesn't seem at all surprising that they would make 'Smart' EVs that suck, to test the waters.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2012 23:28

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Red extension cord shot the food.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2012 20:03

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

IOwnCalculus posted:

If the extension cord is to blame, why did the charger and/or car not throw an alert? Again, not that hard to make some circuitry that says "charge current should be X right now but is <X by more than acceptable margins, turn on a big red light and beep annoyingly"

They have that in an iPhone, even, as discovered by everyone who has tried to charge an iPhone with a cheap hand-crank emergency charger.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2012 02:07

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

I wonder if such an advance would split the market in two - currently the range and price are both kind of at the sticking point, but if the battery tech gets double density at a lower price, then the target market could be split into daily commuters with the same range as current EVs but at a much lower price (and more efficient because lighter), and vehicles the same price as current EVs but with much longer range.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2012 20:00

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Cakefool posted:

Seriously though, there are a couple of electric vans available in the uk & for a business running a set delivery route with a known distance, the ability to charge up overnight & the tax breaks based on CO2 emissions make them at least break even, just with a larger initial purchase price.

Bear in mind the uk used to be a leader in electric vehicles, we had 60,000 electric milk delivery trucks at one point

Which is funny because fuel in the UK costs a shitload more than it does in the US too, and even with tax breaks and the practicality criteria bent to fit to vehicle it's still only coming out at "at least break even". :/

# ¿ Mar 3, 2012 16:18

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

kimbo305 posted:

I'm not sure what you mean by this. 4 digits?

Single digits and a K, probably.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2012 17:07

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Cockmaster posted:

I'd like to see a cost of ownership study which factors in all the maintenance items and common points of failure (engine oil, spark plugs, PCV valves, O2 sensors, that sort of thing) that don't exist in electric vehicles.

Though that may have to wait until electric cars have been on the market long enough to gather meaningful data on long-term reliability (particularly concerning the batteries).

Even for that, they could still include the "best case scenario" for the batteries needing replacement, because at the moment the answer even in the best case scenario is "not all that long, and very expensive."

# ¿ Dec 13, 2012 01:28

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Godholio posted:

The Prius has been out for a decade.

A hybrid doesn't need its batteries to have a really good capacity. Or has an all-electric Prius been out for a decade?

# ¿ Dec 13, 2012 06:03

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

IOwnCalculus posted:

No, but it does need them to work - the Prius CVT requires the electric motor to lock up in order for the gas engine to be able to put power down.

Yeah, my point is the replacement-required lifetime of a battery whose requirement is "still work a bit" is much much longer than the replacement-required lifetime of a battery whose requirement is "still have enough capacity to drive 70+ miles on it."

And it's also much much less expensive to replace a relatively small hybrid battery bank when the time comes.

So we can't really even begin to derive the practical running cost of a proper EV from the electric-part running cost of a hybrid.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2012 16:12

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

wilfredmerriweathr posted:

Turns out being able to play angry birds and browse facebook while taking a poo poo are good enough reasons. Once people warm to the fact that they can do all their errands in comfort without having to fill their car with loving ancient hydrocarbons pumped out of the ground, they'll be completely ok with having to kick it for 45 minutes at a charging station.

Plus, you know, you won't really have to charge up at all while doing general errands, because who the gently caress drives 50+ miles each way to do everyday things? You'd only really have to take a 45 minute break every few hours on a long road trip. Everything else, you'd be fine with just charging at home, or, worst case, charging up while you're parked to do your shopping or your job or whatever it is you drove out for.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2013 04:22

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

IOwnCalculus posted:

I'd argue it's more truthful than anything Broder did, though. Both sides look weak in this whole thing but I still think he comes out worse since he doesn't really have any explanation for why the chargers were disconnected when they were.

Seems truthful especially because one of the cars had issues. They could have just reported "all eight cars we tried with got there just fine."

# ¿ Feb 18, 2013 21:53

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

InitialDave posted:

While I'm not entirely convinced, I think the "Purchase car outright save for battery, which is effectively rented" model might be the best way to get over the sticker shock of EVs while still delivering savings in running costs.

That sounds great to me, because a big part of my uncertainty about them is that I suspect the tens of thousands of dollars of batteries will become increasingly worthless over a few years, which would render any fuel saving moot. Putting that risk on someone else to this extent would totally sell me an EV.

Of course, that model doesn't exist in the US. Edit: I mean the renting a battery model of EV sale, not the model of almost-car that doesn't go fast enough to be used for my wife's commute anyway.

roomforthetuna fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Feb 27, 2013

# ¿ Feb 27, 2013 00:05

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

IOwnCalculus posted:

Yeah - if I could pay X for the car (at a rate comparable or less than an equivalent gasoline car), and pay Y per month for the battery forever (including exchange / repair as needed), I would jump on it in a heartbeat as long as the battery cost + electrical cost came out to less than my typical fuel cost in a month.

But you know it won't (at least not the way costs are now) because the batteries for a Leaf, for example, cost $15000 and in a hot climate will almost certainly suck balls after about 5 years. So that'll come to about $250 a month even before the electricity costs come in.

(They claim they'll still have 70% capacity after 10 years, but I'll believe that when I see it on a car that hasn't been kept in an air conditioned room for its whole life. I've never owned a laptop battery that's had more than 30% capacity after 5 years, is this tech so different?)

# ¿ Feb 27, 2013 02:21

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

grover posted:

Sadly, what will probably happen instead is "smart" meters will be installed that charge people such astronomical costs for "peak" usage that it essentially extorts everyone to put their car chargers on a timer. And if you need to drive to the store or go out to eat or pick up little jimmy from soccer practice? Sorry, you're poo poo out of luck with a depleted car because it hasn't started charging yet.

Or rather, people will just pay it because people are terrible at acting upon deferred costs, so the peak price will just keep on going up, and the electric companies will laugh all the way to the bank because no way are they spending all that lovely money on actually improving their infrastructure. The cap on this rising price will be when the apparent running cost of EVs become sufficiently impractical that nobody buys them any more.

Not that I'm a pessimist or anything.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2013 22:30

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Mortanis posted:

If Tesla can do the battery swap in a reasonable amount of time, and the service is offered with their new charging stations they're rolling out, it goes from a luxury toy to a serious contender right quick. A reasonable amount of time for a swap would hopefully be 15 minutes or under, or about 3x the normal fill up time of gasoline, I think.

This has to come with a surcharge, right? It won't be free like the Supercharge stations I'd imagine.

If that didn't have a surcharge (or only a small one) I would really be tempted by a Tesla, because my biggest objection to, well, all the EVs, is that the batteries are insanely expensive and batteries generally don't survive well in a hot climate. If I could just be swapping them out for new ones every few thousand miles, bam, no more objection.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2013 03:29

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Dwight Eisenhower posted:

Maybe they hosed up big time paying off the Fed loan in its entirety early, but more likely they've got a lot of money to spend right now, and the intelligent move is to spend it on increasing consumer adoption.

I'd say that was most likely a really smart marketing move. Buying something huge like that from someone who might be going out of business at any time is a scary proposition - paying off the loan early is like announcing "we're super solvent and doing great!" Plus it made for quite a bit of free publicity.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2013 15:39

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

kill me now posted:

At my dealership if you walked off the street with no contact with us prior and we have the car want in stock you could be walking out with a new car in about 2 hours. That is of course if you are up front about pricing and would prefer speed over getting the absoultely lowest price possible.

How long would it take if the customer did want to negotiate price? Do you deliberately leave the buyer in an office while you go to "check with a manager" about a price negotiation for a ridiculously long time in order to weaken their resolve and increase their sunk costs of time, to make them more likely to just give up and pay whatever price you come back with?

Because I hear no dealership ever would resort to underhanded tactics like that.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2013 18:57

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

IOwnCalculus posted:

Yep, and since it seems that everyone else obeys NHTSA's "don't publish the fractionals" there's no way to verify whether or not anyone has ever managed to score, say, above 5.4.

Except where they say it was "a new combined record".

# ¿ Aug 24, 2013 01:16

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

IOwnCalculus posted:

According to Tesla, not the NHTSA, who is arguing that Tesla is poorly presenting the results.

True. But they're not saying anything he said is specifically untrue, and "new record" is surely something about which they would say "for example that is not true." Instead it seems they're just griping about his phrasing being a bit advertisingy, perhaps because he's publishing numbers that they don't publish.

Elephanthead posted:

So the Tesla is more popular than the 10 least popular cars?

Ha ha! Though to be fair, it's the 10 least popular big-name brands. They also outsold the combined "other", so they might really be more popular than the 100 least popular cars.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2013 16:29

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Vigo327 posted:

Call me crazy but i think they were created to cash in government dollars. If ever there were a case for government tax subsidies propping up a product that would have no chance in hell otherwise, it's NEVs. It's like the government said "If you sell a glorified golf cart for $7500 i will give you ANOTHER $7500 EVERY TIME". Poof, NEVs are a thing.

Even aside from what Cream_Filling said, "government subsidies" wouldn't really have contradicted his previous point, since everything he said could be the reason for those government subsidies. Or at least the excuse for the government subsidies, if you feel like everything the government does is based on corporate conspiracy.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2013 14:27

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

grover posted:

Maybe I don't understand what sort of lakes you're talking about? I can't envision how you're going to get hydro power from a lake without either draining it or reducing the outflow of the streams it would normally feed.

He said "What outflow they have (had) is usually a waterfall almost directly into the ocean."

# ¿ Oct 27, 2013 17:43

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

grover posted:

Aren't most alpine lakes in the middle of mountain ranges and nowhere near the ocean? How many lakes actually drain directly into the ocean, isn't that an incredibly narrow niche?

All the alpine lakes I know of are landlocked completely and most don't drain out anywhere; that's why I'm confused.

He might be somewhere like Dominica or Hawaii, relatively small islands, where mountains overlooking oceans isn't that uncommon.
And lakes have to drain out somewhere unless they evaporate as much as it rains.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2013 18:08

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

How severe of a crash are these cars getting into that it causes a fire? I mean, 3 out of 15000 cars catching fire in a year seems like a lot, but 3 out of 15000 cars getting into severe crashes also seems like a lot. I assume these accidents aren't just little rear-ending bumps or anything, because if they were then that aspect would be sensationalized too.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 17:11

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

grover posted:

You'd better not talk about them leaking dihydrogen monoxide directly onto the roads, either; that would cause mass panic!

These things together, along with maybe some less disingenuous facts like how cars also directly cause more deaths per year than terrorism and murder combined, would make a good Onion article, the sort of thing that would get linked on Facebook by people who don't know the Onion is a parody.

Perhaps best if it was presented as a secret that the government doesn't want you to know, that there are millions of these dangerous vehicles travelling the roads of America, probably even in your home town. With no mention at all that it's talking about regular passenger cars.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2013 00:55

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

IOwnCalculus posted:

The fridge of Diet Mountain Dew running 24/7 under my desk probably consumes more power than an EV being charged off of 120V five days a week, and yet most people won't look at you funny for bringing in a cube fridge.

I doubt it. Average (full size) fridge consumes less than 2kWh per day. A car charging on 120V can consume 1.5kWh per hour (on a 15A circuit breaker).

# ¿ Nov 15, 2013 05:10

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Michael Scott posted:

This works out to 18 cents per hour for the electric car assuming average prices for electricity distribution (12c/kWh).

Right, it's cheap as chips, but it's still not cheaper than a fridge.
And to be on the side of the "we don't buy everyone else's gas" argument, that's nearly a couple of bucks a day, which still sounds cheap, but would you take a $500 pay cut per year for the option to plug your car in at work?

(To be fair it shouldn't really be quite that much since paying $500 costs more due to payroll taxes, but still, the point is it's not nothing.)

# ¿ Nov 15, 2013 13:38

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Mortanis posted:

The only way you get more range is to cram more batteries in there like the Tesla, and that drives the price up drastically. We should be hoping for cheaper manufacturing processes than greater energy density in the short term, so that economy cars can afford to stuff 36kWh or so in there and still remain affordable.

Or much faster charging and a really good network of charging points. (or Tesla-plan-style super-fast battery-switch-out docks.) Don't really need more range if it just takes a one minute stop every 60 or so miles.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2013 18:33

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Colonel Sanders posted:

Yeah that author is a little too enthusiastic, but this guy must be onto something. . .

He is by no means an engineer.

What would work though, would be to put some bike pedals inside your EV so while you're driving you can be pedaling to help charge the battery. Include some extras for passengers too. Of course you'd have to move the gas and brake pedals onto the steering wheel to compensate for your feet being busy.

With non-stop three very fit people pedaling for about 3 days you could get one full charge of a smaller Tesla battery, if the charging system is near-lossless!

# ¿ Nov 24, 2013 22:55

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

grover posted:

The average ameteur bicyclists can put out about 1/4th horsepower; if they're fit, they can keep it up for an hour. Which is, unfortunately, about an order of magnitude shy of what you'd need to drive at highway speeds. (I mean, there's good reasons you can't travel 70mph on a bicycle, and an EV car has way more drag.)

Well duh, that's why you use it to charge the battery, not to power the car in motion!
I'd hope it was obvious that I wasn't seriously making the suggestion, what with the last paragraph you quoted.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2013 04:12

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

West SAAB Story posted:

bit of the debate in EVs where I just stop listening and just tune out.

So you're saying there's no point in answering your question (well, responding to your statement). Good to know.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2013 22:11

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

The Midniter posted:

Let's say you did have an EV and the grid went down, but you've got a consumer-level portable gas generator. Would it still be less expensive overall to run the generator to charge your EV than it would be to drive a gas vehicle?

I'd bet "hell no", except if you're comparing say a brand new Leaf to a 1995 Dodge RAM sorely in need of a tuneup. (That fucker was getting about 6 mpg.) But if you're comparing approximately like to like then no.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2013 22:57

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

West SAAB Story posted:

Thank you for your attention to my own plight and point of futility regarding the current EV market ouside of frivolous cities with glamorous people, sir.

Not everyone in a rural area has a 20+ mile commute. We're rural enough that we have a well pump and a dirt road, and we could easily do all our regular driving on the range of a Leaf.

Why not argue that cars are futile because some people need to move big heavy objects and that requires a truck?

# ¿ Dec 19, 2013 01:19

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Goober Peas posted:

Grover makes a good point, and it begs an interesting question (this may or may not be the best place to discuss) -- is gasoline overpriced or is electricity underpriced? At 10 cents a kwh, the 40 miles avg (12 kwh) of electric range my Volt provides costs me 1/3 as much as the 40 mpg avg gas generator that is onboard.

A coal power station, despite the lossiness of multiple conversions, is still a fuckton more efficient than a small internal combustion engine, especially when you take into account distribution costs and poo poo like that. (eg. Gas having to be tankered to tens of thousands of gas stations, coal only having to go to a very few destinations comparatively, and assuming all the power lines are already in place.)

e:fb

edit: also, supply and demand of the raw materials. If you had a coal powered generator and a gasoline powered generator, I'm pretty sure you could run the coal generator more cheaply. As evidence I present the virtual nonexistence of gasoline-fired power stations.

vvvv A cruel economical efficiency. But probably carbon too, if you take into account trucks burning oil-products to deliver oil-products etc. Hell, most likely all of the criteria.

roomforthetuna fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Dec 19, 2013

# ¿ Dec 19, 2013 04:37

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Advent Horizon posted:

I'm really not sure why people say the interior looks so futuristic? It looks pretty normal to me.

You push a power button and it plays a little tune! The gearstick returns to the center and lights up a light instead of locking into different positions! That's some Jetsons poo poo!

# ¿ Jun 7, 2014 01:17

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

drunkill posted:

quote:
in a single month ... nixing a day�s worth of CO2 from 73,684 Americans.

What a daft measure. I suppose a month's worth of CO2 from 2456 Americans sounds kind of feeble though. 73,684 already sounded pretty weak, like "each car sold can't even come close to CO2-offsetting a single average American." Probably would have been better to just not mention that aspect.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2014 04:39

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 13:52

roomforthetuna: Mar 22, 2005; I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!

Subjunctive posted:

Tesla just opened a supercharger in Mountain View, which is 5% Model S by volume, so they'll definitely have to crack down on people using it for regular refilling.

Probably not really that big of a deal because it's likely that a significant portion of the Tesla drivers in Mountain View work at a company that has EV charger parking. All those people will just be charging at work rather than at a supercharger station.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2015 05:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The EV anticipation / speculation / discussion electrothread.

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