Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
He was probably mad about losing yesterday.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Fryhtaning posted:

There are 6 every year in Japan, every two months. Unfortunately, that means after every 2 weeks of action we're all sitting around waiting for 6 weeks for the next one to start. Next will be July - you can find all that info on the main page listed in the OP.

As far as "sumo" in other countries, which I've only heard of happening in Mongolia, I have no idea how those would be followed.

I know that amateur sumo is a thing in Russia, a lot of the Russian guys who train at my sambo club are into it.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

a false posted:

drat, daidou is a machine right now. going to be interesting to see how he fares when it comes time to face the ozekis. I really hope he manages to keep pace at least for a while. also, I agree with kintamayama, takanoyama definitely won that match. hard to believe they didn't even call a monoii

It looked to me like his heel was out of bounds before he finished the throw.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
Henkas are awesome, they're an important part of the sport and people who don't like them are misguided, in my opinion. It reminds me of people who think zone defense in basketball is "cowardly". I mean, more than half of Takanoyama's wins are probably by henka.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Fryhtaning posted:

I get it, somewhat. You're giving up your forward momentum to punish what you believe will be a hard-charging opponent. It's like throwing a changeup in baseball, an equalizer to keep your opponents from getting overzealous and sitting on your fastball.

The difference is that 90%+ of sumo matches have a classic tachi-ai, so if you often look for a henka, you're going to get steamrolled most of the time. So then you yourself become an easy henka target because looking for a henka puts you at a disadvantage. I think Hakuho's henka was actually an example of one done right. Kisenosato kept false starting so it was obvious to the world that he was going to blindly charge at the tachi-ai. But cheap henkas just to get a cheap win... I agree that they are not good for the game.

How do you define "cheap"? That's kind of ridiculous, to me. If a wrestler gets caught by a henka, it's their fault -- there's a reason it often doesn't work on the more elite wrestlers. What would really be "not good for the game" is if there were no henkas at all, since it would strip a layer of nuance and technique away from sumo.

Again, I don't understand how the thread can simultaneously love Takanoyama and dislike henkas, since most of the time henkas are the only way he can compete.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

BadBeatsCrewDerk posted:

I follow sumo very closely and have for a while now. I don't really read/contribute here but some people wanted to know if there was a thread on it here and I recalled there was. So I looked at the OP and saw a lot of misinformation. I didn't go through it with a fine-toothed comb, but here are some corrections:

In the OP there is no mention of stables, restrictions on foreigners, any sort of records, any notable past wrestlers, or anything like that. The OP would benefit greatly from a history/records section.

You say there are "no more than 40 Makuuchi wrestlers at one time" except there are 43 now and it's not like this is unusual. You say 0-5 Ozeki, but there are 6 now -- though it would be good to point out, as well, that this is unusual.

There is some brief discussion of how to become an Ozeki when the standard is basically 33/45 wins in 3 tournaments (which you don't mention), same as Yokozuna standard is winning 2 basho consecutively (which you do mention). You also don't explain the special demotion/promotion rules for Ozeki (0-15 and 8-7 is fine and if you do have two consecutive losing records and get knocked out of Ozeki, going 10-5 in the next basho gets immediate repromotion).

You mention Yokozuna retirement expectations, but don't mention the Ozeki one, which is to drop from Ozeki to Juryo.

Not a single mention of Osunaarashi? Everyone is watching this guy. Huge Egyptian, first African wrestler, and has basically never lost a bout.

As far as big/small matchups, picking a Takanoyama match really doesn't do it justice... pick a Mainoumi vs Konishiki match, or if you want something current, Orora vs Ohara.

Your discussion of pay is almost all wrong. Juryo salary is north of $150k, not $120k. There is a salary for the lower divisions, and while it is small, they do actually get paid for wins, with extra money coming from wins with a winning overall record. Also, Sekitori will often give some of their earnings to their stable mates, so most of these lower division guys probably still pull in $20k+, so I wouldn't call it "jack poo poo", especially considering their living, food, and medical expenses are taken care of.

Your kensho numbers are off. You state that Ozeki and Yokozuna almost always have a "full house" of kensho, but that's wrong. Take for instance last basho after day 14. Yokozuna Hakuho (14-0) had won 415 in 14 matches -- an average of 29 a day. It's not unusual to have over 40 on certain days (weekends, end of basho, etc.), though. Compare his numbers to Ozeki Harumafuji (14-0), who had won 80 -- an average of 6 a day.

If you do want to include the retirement money, which is seems you are with the $5k bit, then your $75k line is way off. Hakuho earned almost $300k last basho alone.

You don't mention payments for actually winning the divisions or anything about the special prizes.

You have a scandal section but don't mention other huge scandals, many of which are pretty recent, such as the wrestler who got killed in training, Asashoryu's soccer and assault stuff leading to his retirement, and many more.

As far as streaming goes, you say "you'll need streaming video capture software to record the matches to watch during waking hours." Even if you only watch the top division, this starts on the west coast at midnight. Not exactly a weird time for many.

Then "it's not worth the effort, storage, and time spent watching in my opinion." It seems like you are trying to dissuade people from watching sumo except in the 7 minute recaps which really do miss out on a lot of things. The ceremony of it all is interesting and should be experienced, the dohyo-iri, the preparations, the crowd reactions, etc. are all lost when you are just spoon fed the matches with an occasional comment from Kintamayama (his videos are great, but they should not be your only exposure if you really like the sport).

Pretty much everything you mention has been discussed over the course of the (very short) thread. What made you think this was a good idea to post in this way, instead of just PMing the OP or using a more informative and less sanctimonious tone?

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
When are the day 9 matches going to go up :(

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

dupersaurus posted:

So while we're all twiddling our thumbs waiting for the next basho, does anyone know of (or want to write up) a good guide for newbies on how to watch sumo? I'm thinking less about rules, and more about the strategy and tactics; stuff like what's going on at the tachi-ai and what's going on when they have each others' belts but are just chilling out waiting for the ref to yell at them a few times.

Check out a judo manual and you'll learn basically everything there is to know about sumo technique. The mechanics of things like hip throws, foot trips, and snapdowns aren't particularly complex -- learning what good balance, footwork, and timing look like is hard, and even harder to describe. As for gripwork and whatnot, it really depends on the wrestler, but generally speaking you want to be inside and under your opponents arms in a tie. Grabbing the belt is generally a good thing, but doesn't necessarily mean you are at an advantage if the opponent has underhooks. And then of course there are wrestlers who are most comfortable with, say, double overhooks, and it gets more complicated.

Basically, go start doing wrestling/judo/sambo and you'll learn a ton about sumo :v:

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Oct 19, 2012

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Just Winging It posted:

Aoiyama v Tokitenku, I'm not sure how to label that action by Tokitenku. Sidestep-swipe or something. Anyway, nice blitz win there.

That's called a foot sweep.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Funkysauce posted:

Aoyama v Tokitenkuu Looks like whiffed kick, what a lame match, Aoyama deserved better than that.

That's a foot sweep and it owned.

e: seriously what's with people complaining about the most awesome move of the tournament so far?

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Nov 16, 2012

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
Hokuho always looks so graceful even when losing.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
Is there a name for or tradition behind the awesome thigh slap Asashoryu used to do before matches? Or is it just a thing he did to get the salt off his hands?

e: talking about this thing

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jan 16, 2013

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Mao posted:

I never really paid much attention to Sumo until this thread got me to start watching the youtube links you all posted here. Was pretty fascinating to watch, especially with the OPs background information to help it make a bit more sense.

Today though I had a random Youtube video of Asashoryu pop up and I watched it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKCMkwCHSwc

Its a video of 20 of his tournament winning matches.

What amazed me is how strong he seems, and even looks compared to the rest of the competitors. I get that Sumo aren't all fat, but if you look at his neck and shoulders you can tell he really seems to have a level of physical strength that I don't recall seeing in the rest of the wrestlers in the tournaments posted recently, and at least in these matches posted he seems to use that strength to manhandle his opponents. Seems like a lot of them he just uses his strength to get the guy upright and just shove him out.

How common is it for sumos to do weight training and more 'modern' strength increasing workout programs? Asashoryu, while obviously carrying some fat, seems to be more muscle mass than most the people he was wrestling.

Asashoryu was a physical specimen, but I'm fairly sure that they all do pretty serious strength training.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Anime Reference posted:

During the last basho a guy was telling me sumo wrestlers actually have the most lean mass out of any athlete, including powerlifters. I'm skeptical but it certainly sounds plausible.

I'd think this would be obvious, powerlifting is a weight class sport. Sumo isn't.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
I can't be the only one who wants to see Baruto drop like 12 ranks due to injury and go through a few tournaments just annihilating 16-year-olds.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

S.W.O.R.D. Agent posted:

What in the world is going on with Harumafuji? Is it typical to see a Yokozuna loose this often?

I think we've been a little spoiled by a succession of some of the most dominant yokozuna in sumo history in Hakuho and Asashoryu. Not every yokozuna is going to be like those guys.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Funkysauce posted:

I just started following sumo with the OP in this thread so I guess I've come to expect that all Yokozuna will perform like Hakuho. I guess that an unfair assumption.

He's making a serious case for being possibly the greatest of all time.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
Cranky old man Hakuho is awesome.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Fryhtaning posted:

I'm thinking we're finding out more and more how spoiled we've been with Hakuho and Asashoryu. If Harumafuji mixes 9-6 records with some completely dominating performances for several years, he'll go down as a fine Yokozuna.

This. I've said it before, but Asashoryu and Hakuho were/are two of the most dominant yokozuna in hundreds of years of sumo. The requirements for yokozuna are not particularly strict, you just need to be an ozeki who is consistent and lucky enough to put together two consecutive tournament wins (or an "equivalent" performance). You don't need to have a 90% win rate like Hakuho.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
Goddamn. It's tough being a big dude.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
Harsh demotion rules aside, it's really drat tough to recover from a major knee injury when you're over 300 lbs. I doubt he would have ever been able to get back to his previous form even if he had all the recovery time in the world.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

evilwaldo posted:

True, the weight makes is difficult if not impossible to return to previous form.

A good indicator is offensive lineman in the NFL getting a foot injury around 30. It is not impossible to come back but the body is not designed to hold up that amount of weight. You generally come back with weaker legs and less movement.

Exactly. More lax injury rules would be great for allowing things like niggling elbow injuries to heal, but lower-body stuff is a whole different ballgame for guys this huge.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
Masunoyama exciting as always. Battle Bulgaria was the match of the day.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Omnikin posted:

I feel like Harumafuji's on thinning ice here so he's getting frustrated/edgy/itchy what have you. More wins for Hakuho, our one true savior.

Oh also Shohozan owns

edit - also yeah I'm trying to catch the "super rare technique" Hakuho used and it's lost on me. Slowed it down to .25x speed and still couldn't pick it out from any other toss

It's basically a greco takedown where you have the underhook and enter with the knee, getting your hips lower than theirs to get them up off the ground so you can bodylock them to the floor. I haven't seen it in sumo very much.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

evilwaldo posted:

The beautiful thing about watching Hakuho is that his look just screams boss. You can see by the way he starts and ends matches it is all about getting the Basho record. His face is 100% serious and focused on that particular match.

You can see by the look on his face that he wants that record. It is within sight and he is going for it.

That is a dedication there that is not seen in Harumafuji. He doesn't look lost but he does not look like a Yokozuna. It does not look like he is coming to the match with a look and feeling like he wants to win.

Oh my god did you really just make an unironic "the look" post?

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Funkysauce posted:

He caught him good too. How old are the gyoji anyway? They may get some serious bumps if they aren't careful!

They make sure all the gyoji are at just the right age where it's as funny as possible when they get knocked over, without them actually breaking something or dying

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

S.W.O.R.D. Agent posted:

This video has been making the rounds for the slam that this guy pulls off (Turn your volume down). Figure I'd post it up for those who haven't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfPqCjg2g2s

Also, I've seen it mentioned that the guy who did the slamming (Byambajav Ulambayar) is a world champion. Anyone ever heard of this dude? Any reason he wouldn't be in the Japanese basho?

He's an amateur sumo champion, not a professional rikishi.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Flayer posted:

Hakhuo's ropey sumo this Basho finally caught up with him. It seems like he has lost some of his intensity and replaced it with a touch of extra arrogance, hopefully this loss wakes him up.

He's wrestling with a broken finger, his performance has nothing to do with "intensity", "arrogance", or "waking up".

Speaking as a guy who has broken many fingers doing wrestlesports, it's a really big deal and you can see how it's affecting his ability to get any kind of grip with that hand.

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 21:03 on May 21, 2014

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
What an incredibly impressive yusho for Hakuho. Dude just won a basho while not being able to grip with his right hand, un-loving-real.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
Day 12 is gonna be raaaaad.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
I just found out Osunaarashi was born in 1992 :stare:

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

net work error posted:

I started watching sumo on Day 11 and while I don't know much of what's going on it looks like a picked a good time to start watching.

I have a question on something I saw in day 13:

Why did the crowd boo and the commentators disapprove of the match which Harumafuji won? Also who were they booing exactly, the winner or loser?

They thought Harumafuji did a henka, which should be "beneath" a yokozuna. It's all bullshit though, gently caress the crowds and commentators. Henkas own.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
30. Sweet Jesus.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
My thoughts from this basho: Ichinojo is a very large young man.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

anakha posted:

I'll be surprised if Ichinojo manages a winning record this time around.

I suspect the blueprint on how to beat him is already out, and people will be looking for the henka this time.

Is the blueprint to also be a gigantic motherfucker?

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
Henkas own. I want to see someone win a basho with 15 of them.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
I'm so jealous. Going to a basho in person is right near the top of my bucket list.

Just out of curiosity, are certain days significantly more expensive than others? Like, does it cost three times as much to go to a day 15 than a day 5?

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 11, 2014

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
This Hakuho kid's got potential.

(I have goosebumps right now)

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
PSP would be a good place for the sumo thread. Lots of grappling people in there who'd actually understand and be into the sport.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Dr.Radical posted:

I suggest just taking a poll and whatever wins is where the new thread goes. I favor putting it in the regular sports forum just because if we're doing it in the interest of exposing more people to it, putting it in PSP might cause a lot of people who would like it but don't like combat sports in general to never take a look. I mean as an example, I never go into PSP unless I'm looking for a thread on a specific big boxing match.

Seems more likely you'd get interest from the wrestling fans in PSP than from the golf, college hockey, and NASCAR fans in SAS.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply