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So this is where the thread is at. Y'all don't want to join the other combat sports? Not obscure enough already? Anyway, for some insane reason YouTube recommended me a supercut of tochinoshin's 15 fights at his last fat man games. I understood with some googling that he'd been demoted from the rank below yokozuna after a couple of poor showings and needed 10 wins to restore his rank and honour. I loving love narratives. And I loved the fights. I'm looking forward to the next tournament.
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Jan 3, 2020 04:10
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don't worry i'm sure huge foreigners with abnormally massive front delts from picking up fat men and placing them over a rope on the ground are a dime a dozen
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Jan 3, 2020 07:36
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pseudodragon posted:Unfortunately Tochinoshin already lost his chance for return to Ozeki (the Novemeber tournament was the one he could have bounced back with the 10). But the narrative still holds as Takayasu now finds himself in the situation of needing 10 to bounce back. Huh? I must have watched an old video or something because in the video I saw Tochi made it back to ozeki, but I'll be watching Takayasu keenly because it's a simple story with an underdog protag. Hakuho is really obviously incredible. Reminds me of Bernard Hopkins winning a world title pushing 50 in that he switched up his style as his body aged and leaned heavily on experience and other intangibles to win out over guys 20 years his junior at the very peak of their athletic careers. I absolutely adore athletes that are able to do this. Finally, thanks for the Endo / Ishiura recs, as yes, it really is fascinating to see little-ish guys (hell, even Hakuho is pretty small) win out with technique. One final observation I just need some clarity on: I am hearing laughter when one of the giant fat dudes go tumbling right? I understand these guys are treated like gods but I find it really human when the audience laughs when one of their giant national heroes are forced to do comedic prat falls by a skilled opponent.
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Jan 3, 2020 10:46
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Omnikin posted:Agreed. In a sport with such rich history and record keeping, he's rewriting the entire top end of what's possible and what should be expected for the GOAT discussion. I read somewhere, might have been in the OP, that anyone who beats a yokozuna and is elligible gets a gold star award and that also comes with a 20k a year LIFETIME pay rise. That seemed sort of absurd to me until I looked at Hakuho's wikipedia. Yeah, sure, beat that guy and get 20k. Speaking of Hakuho, wasn't he the guy Tochi beat via henka earlier in 2019 to get his rank back? DId Tochi get a gold star for that? Or do you have to beat a Yokozuna the, uh, proper way?
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Jan 3, 2020 20:44
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ahh, nice one. thanks for the additonal info.
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Jan 3, 2020 23:21
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So.... sumo guys die super loving young huh? Like, way earlier than fat, unfair people (or so it seems). Is anyone studying this?
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Jan 4, 2020 15:51
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Elissimpark posted:The life expectancy of rikishi is about 20 years less than the Japanese national average. Yeah this is about what I've found. A sumo guy died last year at 70 (still 10+ years earlier than the national average) and he was considered ancient. Like 3 guys died in their 50's last year, one in his 40's... Like, this poo poo is alarming. Sports science needs to be on this poo poo.
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Jan 5, 2020 00:23
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Brut posted:Who are you referring to and what were the causes of death? I'm referring to the guys in this video, skip to 7:20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVkLFx0_MZ0
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Jan 5, 2020 08:10
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Konstantin posted:Sumo training methods are centuries old and quite brutal, here is a decent overview of what's involved. The guy who wrote that article acts as a unofficial liaison between the western sumo community and the professional organization in Japan, and his universal advice to young western sumo wrestlers who want to turn pro is "don't." Holy poo poo it's like MMA 20+ years ago. Pretty soon someone is going to open up a stable using modern understanding of training, rest / recovery, and nutrition and blow the competition out of the water for at least a decade or however long it takes for everyone to realise that they have to change if they want to win and then raise a new generation of fighters.
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Jan 5, 2020 08:17
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The training is so barbaric and ancient that a middle of the pack rikishi could take home a title tomorrow if he simply entered the tournament not carrying any injuries and not totally exhausted from years of sadistic 'training'. I'm serious. this is so bad that 'not injured' and 'not currently in a state of exhaustion' would transcend talent and skill at all levels of sumo. lol.
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Jan 5, 2020 08:30
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Everything is loving stupid about the training. The carrying injuries. The full contact fights every day. The training far past the point of exhaustion. The hazing. The abuse. And, fuelling all of it, the macho attitude. I know most of you don't know much about MMA but this was no poo poo the exact same thing in the early years. Full contact smokers in the gym every day. Coaches punching students in their unguarded faces to 'train their chin' (does the complete opposite). The injuries. The drug use to mask the injuries.The 'train until you physically can't anymore' attitude. The early deaths... Then someone like GSP comes along doing this thing called a 'jab' and whose coach says things like 'If you do 20 pullups and need three days to recover and I just do 7 a day, I've done more than you in that time span' and instantly becomes completely unbeatable. Robbie Lawler drastically reduces full contact sparring and has a mid-career renaissance becoming the UFC champion. If anyone has a spare few hundred thousand, I will give you a division 1 winner in about 5 years using only books I've bought on ebay and some heart rate monitors.
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Jan 5, 2020 13:00
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Brut posted:I totally believe you that you can fill a stable full of healthy guys funded somehow and they're gonna be there and be healthy and only fight when they're not injured, I just don't have any clue how those guys would end up climbing the ranks. i was being hyperbolic in that i'd also need a nutritionist and a sumo head coach for technique purposes, but what do you think would be holding them back from the top division?
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Jan 5, 2020 15:04
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Brut posted:MMA fighters get injured all the time and either fight through it or reschedule the fight, Sumo isn't gonna get rescheduled around your injures, you don't show up it counts a loss. Ok, now imagine Dominick Cruz was having smokers in the gym every day and training far past exhaustion with those injuries instead of taking time to rehab them. e: My point being that injuries happen, but injuries happen at an absurd rate training in that fashion. Simply not doing that will leave you at an exponentially greater chance of good health come tournament time which will translate into much more success. Marching Powder fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jan 5, 2020 |
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Jan 5, 2020 15:51
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Rigel posted:I am putting together a new sumo thread for the combat sports subforum, because the current sumo thread is very old and outdated as hell, and this probably belongs in that subforum anyway. Sumo - Bulky heft, ancient refs, early deaths.
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Jan 5, 2020 20:30
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Fluffdaddy posted:There is some real weird orientalism going on here, to be real. If you are talking abou the training methodology from hundreds of years ago now being known as sub-optimal due to the massive advances in science, I disagree. Regardless, I'd like you do expand, because a respect and understanding for cultures of sport I follow is personally important to me.
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Jan 5, 2020 21:20
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Mekchu posted:It's a Japanese Sports Culture thing. There was a 30-for-30 podcast episode on the first Japanese player to cross over from the Nippon league to MLB and part of his issues with wanting to leave the Nippon league was that his coaches/general manager demanded that because he was such a good pitcher he had to keep pitching despite being injured because ~reasons (aka they were a crap team and in Japan as well as Korea they lean super heavy on the best players thus breaking them entirely rather than accepting they need time to heal/recuperate). We have something like this in our current work place. We call it 'performance based punishment'. The bosses are given the task to do something, and nobody is leaving till it's done, so are you going to task Mr. Sad Act, the slowest and most incompetent member of your team to do it and stay there till 10 at night, or are you going to get you competent dudes to knock it out in an hour? The choice is obvious, and within two years we lose our best people.
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Jan 5, 2020 23:19
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