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Good news for me! Not only is Orc Stain #7 coming out tomorrow but my FLCS had the first trade buried under a mountain of other Image TPBs. I scooped that thing up quick.fritz posted:I just learned that there's a new Jason out that I haven't read : My favorite is I Killed Adolf Hitler. Despite the title, it's actually a good love story.
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Feb 29, 2012 04:05
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Try and get your hands on Visions of Frank. It's a DVD containing a series of short animations by Japanese animators and they're balls crazy.
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Mar 13, 2012 07:19
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 Blacksad Publisher: currently Dark Horse Why I Like It: Gritty detective stories starring basically humans with animal heads. The hand painted art is realistic and highly detailed while remaining incredibly expressive and cartoon-like. Good Jumping On Point: Dark Horse collected the entire series in one book that's currently in print. The fourth book "A Silent Hell" hits stands July 24. al-azad fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Mar 15, 2012 |
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Mar 15, 2012 03:31
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 Title:: Courtney Crumrin Publisher: Oni Press Brief description: The adventures of a troubled girl and her encounters with the supernatural. Her uncle, Aloysius, is a sorcerer and her mentor of sorts but he has terrible people skills so Courtney has to deal with unmentionable horrors by herself. Being a 12 year old kid, this usually results in things never going as planned or something tragic happening and Courtney having to adapt to it. Why I like it: Ted Naifeh has a serious talent for bittersweet stories. Bad things happen to good people and good people sometimes do bad things (volume 2's ending, holy poo poo) but each story ends on a satisfying note even if it's not the happy ending you expect. Courtney's that rare "precocious, magical child" archetype that actually acts like a child: she's brave but selfish, sometimes cruel, naive about the world, and kind when she wants to be. It's surprisingly dark and regularly features children in peril, murder, and tragic events but not once does Naifeh rely on sensational violence, gore, sex, or profanity to get his point across, just sharp writing and excellent pacing. Issue that is a good jumping on point: The first three volumes are out of print but cheap and common: The Night Things, The Coven of Mystics, and The Twilight Kingdom. Two one-shot GNs continued the story after that: The Fire Thief's Tale and The Prince of Nowhere. Courtney Crumrin Tales is a hard to find side-story that expands on Aloysius but isn't a necessary read. A new full color series is being released this spring and I'm pretty excited about it.
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Mar 16, 2012 20:10
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friendo55 posted:I was told to try this out in the Recommendations thread and I have to say it's absolutely fantastic. Being brand new to comics, I'm not sure how much weight my opinion really has. But my love for film noir (and to a certain extent, Disney) translates over to Blacksad in a big way. Real excited now for the 4th book out this summer. Glad you enjoy it. I wish there was a larger market for Euros (well, technically Blacksad is Spanish) but the few companies that publish them in English either die in obscurity or butcher the loving format, Jesus Christ I'm mad.
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Mar 31, 2012 03:12
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God, dammit. What about Orc Stain, Stokoe? Don't make me wait another year!
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Apr 1, 2012 14:48
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I picked up that Popeye comic having loved the cartoons but never actually reading any of E.C. Segar's stuff. Holy poo poo, Popeye and crew are douchebags. Olive Oyl does nothing but bitch and nag, her brother is a greedy jerk, Wimpy is just as lazy and useless as he is in the show, and Popeye is apparently invulnerable (he gets beat up in the show before winning but here he's Superman). The entire cast are dysfunctional assholes who are at each others throats the entire time. There's one scene where Popeye basically leaves Wimpy to die in the middle of the ocean for abandoning his useless watch post to have lunch. I thought it was pretty good comic but for someone raised on the cartoons it's a kick in the nuts. I'm going to continue reading because I want to see how low these characters can go.
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Apr 26, 2012 17:19
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 Title:: Hilda and the Midnight Giant Publisher: Nobrow Brief description: Hilda and her mother live in their ancestral home in the hills alongside magical creatures. After receiving an eviction notice because their house is an obnoxious eyesore planted in the middle of a country ruled by one-millimeter-tall invisible elves, Hilda has to convince the elf king for a truce before her mother decides to move to the city. At the same time she befriends a skulking giant who waits by her house every night whose life story is connected to Hilda's own plight. Why I like it: It's a funny, cute, all-ages book. Unlike the typical wide-eyed protagonist you normally see in these types of stories, Hilda is rather aggressive and resorts to brute force before switching to her soft side which results in humorous moments with the more passive magical creatures she encounters. It's also a very beautiful hardcover book printed in full color on high quality paper in large A4 album format. Issue that is a good jumping on point: Amazon gets a few in stock every month then sells out instantly until the next month. Hildafolk came out first but Midnight Giant is a "reboot" to the series although each story is a complete adventure that doesn't carry over. Preview the book here. Check out a Hilda comic here. al-azad fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Apr 28, 2012 |
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Apr 27, 2012 18:36
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choobs posted:This sounds pretty amazing, though they are a tad expensive for how short they are. Would they be appropriate for a 7 year old girl? I love finding stuff to read with my daughter. I think she could enjoy them. Here's a standalone Hilda comic to give you an idea of the style. Here's a preview from Midnight Giant and a preview from Hildafolk which is an older collection of stories. According to Pearson, Midnight Giant is his attempt at rebooting the character into a full fledged series so Midnight Giant is the first in the "canon" if you can call it that. If your daughter likes comics, check out Amelia Rules. Fun stories for kids but the characters sometimes deal with heavy stuff like divorces and deaths in the family so it's crazy without being throwaway and uninteresting. Gownley is also one of the best hand letterers I've seen in recent years and he turns his words into pictures themselves. Urban Space Cowboy posted:I haven't seen this comic yet, but that all sounds pretty close to Segar's comic strips! Who are the artist(s)/writer(s) in this venture? I hope they can keep up the good work -- of the current comic strips, the Sundays are utterly dire and the (recycled) dailies are pretty tired. Roger Langridge (W) and Bruce Ozella (A). Langridge is best known for The Straightjacket Fits, a story published in Judge Dredd Megazine, and his webcomic Fred the Clown which earned him a poo poo ton of critical acclaim including two Eisner nominations. Ozella is a veteran graphic artist but this is his first comic and everyone has said nothing but praise for his spot on style. The comic has been well received so far and I must say that it's pretty good. Keeping with tradition of old comics there's a lot of dialog but it's interspersed with good visual humor and the characters are such dickheads. al-azad fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Apr 28, 2012 |
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Apr 28, 2012 02:58
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Flynn Taggart posted:So did anybody check out Frankenstein Alive, Alive this week? I think I'm gonna pick it up tomorrow, it looks pretty sweet. I liked it. Great art, good writing, and I've always liked the original story for its humanization of this newly born monster in a world that fears him.
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May 11, 2012 08:45
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WickedIcon posted:Is this anything like Moomin? The art seems pretty similar to Tove Jansson's style. Hilda does have Mymble's nose but other than being a story about oddball magic creatures, they're not really similar. Then again, nothing is quite like Moomin.
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May 12, 2012 00:20
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Kickstarter took off by indie musicians and artists who needed a little financial push to start off so this isn't surprising. Now that Double Fine has tossed them into the mainstream I've been seeing good project after project left and right.
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May 21, 2012 03:07
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I have a mixed opinion on Ragemoor's art. The human characters are grotesque and "runny" like wax dummies melting under a fire. It reminds me of that horrible webcomic Goblins except competently done. It's effective and definitely creepy but it's more grotesque than anything. It's hard to explain because I really haven't seen art in a comic that has turned me off while still fitting perfectly. Even Basil Wolverton's grotesque characters had a cartoony nature you could relate to. It's like the polar opposite of Beasts of Burden which is incredibly cute 50% of the time and scary as hell the other 50%.
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May 30, 2012 20:36
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Now that I think about it, Corben's stuff reminds me of Errol Otus, a fantasy artist. He drew some of my favorite monsters because his work actually looks alien and weird.
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May 30, 2012 23:06
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C'mon, $900! If there's anyone's art that doesn't deserve to be stuck on tiny cramped pages it's Stokoe's.
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Jun 9, 2012 21:30
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bairfanx posted:This would be so much easier to hit if their more expensive pledges weren't just "now you get MORE copies." If Stokoe offered original art this thing would have skyrocketed.
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Jun 10, 2012 03:08
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As a counterpoint, I'm not feeling The Massive yet. The Callum Israel is really soft spoken and the three members of his crew so far appear far more proactive and capable than he is. He's an ex-mercenary, so I assume he has combat experience, and he was a member of a radical conservation unit and yet he hesitates a lot and allows his crew to speak for him. Maybe this proves his deep trust for his crew but it came across to me that he isn't fit to be captaining that ship and I don't know what he did to command everyone's respect. I also really dislike the pacifist character archetype in post-apocalyptic stories as if their vows of non-violence do anything other than get their friends killed. One of the characters, the strong one of course, goes into a brief speech about why they killed a pirate as if anybody would seriously question defending their life against heavily armed assailants in the middle of loving nowhere! I know the crew are environmentalists and probably not used to hostilities but the world has collapsed, major cities lost, and millions if not billions of people along the coast are dead and they're crying over some faceless guy who just shot at them getting crushed by a boat.
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Jun 14, 2012 20:47
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Benny the Snake posted:Speaking about Wood, I have to recommend his ongoing work on Conan. All those years on Northlanders have done him good I only read the first arc of Northlanders but I would have enjoyed the story more if it weren't for the incredibly foul language. I don't mind cursing but Northlanders had these 8th century guys yelling "gently caress!" every other sentence. The Massive has been surprisingly tame and he does a good job adapting Howard's prose.
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Jun 14, 2012 22:48
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Lurdiak posted:The Massive was a pretty unimpressive introduction to the setting and characters and aside from the covers I hate the art. Probably not gonna pick up issue 2. The premise and cover art made me hope this might be the special comic of the year that gets everyone talking, but bleh. I don't know why you didn't like the art, I thought it was the best part about the comic. The lines and colors are clean and the characters look ragged and weathered. It certainly conveyed the setting of a bunch of sailors stuck on a ship with dreary weather in the middle of hostile territory. As a former sailor who once went a week without seeing the loving sun (literally) I definitely sympathized with these people... except the captain. He's just not doing it for me.
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Jun 15, 2012 03:16
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To each their own but I don't get that vibe at all. No, the characters don't ridiculously emote and there's no comic book shorthand like motion lines but that effects creates something that's more down to earth. More "dry" is the word I'm trying to think of. I got the same vibes from The New Deadwardians, another series I'm sure isn't turning heads with its art. It's not flashy but the bold lines and sharp use of colors (warm colors like a character's scarf are used sparingly to guide the eyes) add a more down-to-earth look than other comics with more flair.
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Jun 15, 2012 07:40
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Hakkesshu posted:I picked up the first issue of Saga and I'm not in love with it (why does everyone talk like they're a GBS poster?). I want to like it, though - does it dramatically improve after the first issue? What didn't you like about it in particular?
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Jun 21, 2012 20:37
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Hakkesshu posted:The dialogue, mostly. It tries way too hard to be casual and "real" when no one in the history of the universe has actually talked like that, ever. I don't know, it's ultimately not that big a deal, but it takes me out of it - it's like Vaughan is trying to out-snark Whedon. Then no, I wouldn't continue. The interactions between Marko and Alana are always kept tongue-in-cheek even during scenes of peril. It becomes even more noticeable when they're joined by a ghost with her guts hanging out who seems to be the living embodiment of sarcasm. The side stories involving the robot prince and a mercenary doing his own thing are far more serious in tone but every moment of drama is preceded by a comedic element. It is a very light-hearted story which doesn't bother me none because I'm not a fan of taking ridiculous concepts and playing them completely straight faced.
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Jun 21, 2012 21:33
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Last week's issue of Prophet is the first one I've read of the re-release and I'm getting serious vibes from another series. There used to be this comic that was basically an anthology about the humanization of robots but I completely forgot the name. The art and writing looked very familiar to this anthology. I'll have to do some digging to find it. e: Super disappointed that the fantastic Frankenstein Alive, Alive is bimonthly. 25 more days until issue 2? C'mon guys, work faster! al-azad fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Jul 2, 2012 |
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Jul 2, 2012 01:10
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I like the concepts and characters behind MP but I have no idea where it's going. We've gone from WWII to alien contact. All the characters are pretty hosed up in an interesting way but there's no overarching plot or point to the story, just a framework for the ensemble cast.
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Jul 12, 2012 16:11
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petewhitley posted:That's the appeal IMO. It's this crazy group of geniuses in an alternate reality, doing whatever Hickman dreams up. If it falls into a traditional comic-book narrative structure I'm out. Maybe but I feel the comic is going to be lacking without a major payoff. The first issue contains a character revelation that would normally be saved for the climax of any other story. Each issue basically relies on the gimmick of something insane happening and I feel without a conventional narrative it's going to run out of steam soon. You have this ensemble cast of quirky characters but no direction or any reason for them to work together. I feel like the current issue is setting up a plot. There are too many established events now to instantly jump to another character next issue. Einstein's the last character to get a backstory and the genocidal aliens are clearly up to some poo poo.
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Jul 12, 2012 16:38
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I want to give a shout out to Sparrow & Crowe, a 5-issue mini-series based on a podcast play I've never heard of called Wormwood. I picked it up because the artwork was original and certainly unlike anything else on the stands. The story and characters aren't anything original in the modern-paranatural-story-with-quirky-characters dynamic that seems to be springing up but it's kind of like Castle (if he was a bigger dork and loser) mixed with The Exorcist and the setup is interesting enough to get me excited for issue 2.
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Jul 12, 2012 17:41
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I've spent the last few days marking pages in Previews of stuff I'm excited for and I just want to share some stuff that people might miss in the hustle and bustle. Building Stories by Chris Ware. A massive box of little comics and mini-books detailing the lives of Chicago residents living in a three-story apartment. Ware's greatest strength is his characterization of quirky (but startling deep) characters and esoteric narrative that merges images and words in ways few other artists have accomplished. It's told in a non-linear style with no real beginning or end but all the stories are related. Goddamn This War! Jacques Tardi, creator of the popular Adele Blanc-Sec, returns with a companion piece to his critically acclaimed It Was the War of the Trenches. This new story is in full color and derives stylistically from his previous work while still being just as meticulously researched. WWI is kind of left behind in stories because WWII is more well documented so it's great to see an original, well researched story set in such a massive conflict. Woodwork is a big hardcover art book collecting the work of legendary cartoonist Wally Wood from a Spanish museum exhibit. The Daniel Clowes Reader collects the seminal Ghost World and almost a dozen other works by Clowes with some never being reprinted before since their original appearance in Eightball. Also includes Clowes' manifesto on the history of cartoons and new interviews with him on the industry and his life. If you've never read Clowes' work before then this is the perfect place to begin. The Artist at War collects Nick Cardy's pen-and-ink and watercolor illustrations from his two year service during WWII. I haven't read any of Cardy's comic book work but I love collecting art books and having one based on real history from a first hand experience is icing. Mattias Unfiltered collects select sketches from Swedish artist Mattias Adolfsson. I don't think he's done any comic work but hey, I can't pass up a good artbook and Adolfsson's art is reminiscent of a modern Richard Scarry with a pinch more robots and crazy contraptions. The Batman/Judge Dredd Collection. This one is special to me because it was my first Batman and Judge Dredd story. I remember my elementary school's book fair (seriously) had Judgment on Gotham on sale and it blew my mind for someone who was used to reading cartoony Tintin and watching BtaS. It also collects Vendetta in Gotham, The Ultimate Riddle, Die Laughing 1-2, and Psycho Bikers Vs. Mutants From Hell. I haven't read any but Judgment and I've heard the quality varies dramatically but the hand painted artwork kicked rear end and the concept of these two hardasses appearing in the same book was too good to be true. I know this is the indie recommendation thread but let's pretend this is more Judge Dredd than Batman, okay?
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Jul 17, 2012 01:20
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Happy Hedonist posted:This is probably a silly question, but does anyone know where I can buy this? WW2 history is a passion of mine and I'd love to own some sketchbooks like this one. Amazon has it listed for September 25.
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Jul 17, 2012 21:40
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Image made the baffling decision to relaunch Glory and Prophet with the original numbers. I'm sure there are many people like me who refuse to get into a series that's already deep in its production run (the recent one-shot of Chew is literally the first time I've hopped on an ongoing comic that was past issue 6 without reading the previous issues). There's no indication that these are reboots unless you take the time to research them and it's not like you can find the original stories in collected form (and coming from Liefeld, they're probably not very good!). So shame on Image for not completely renumbering the series especially when the originals are probably unknown and completely unavailable. They seem popular enough in a sleeper sort of way but I think they could be doing better if they began at #1. al-azad fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 23:33
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I guess people shouldn't feel the need to read everything but with the way comics are branded I'm sure the vast majority feels like they should. I dislike the way comics are branded and distributed and I'd put all my money that a lot of people who want to get into them don't read them for the same reason. A book has information on the back or inside cover and usually includes chronology or a description of the series but comics lack the same kind of direct information approach that helps a random customer picking it up off the rack for the first time. In order to get into comics, you have to know about comics and it should be no surprise that the most popular question in the field is "Where do I begin?" Even Glory #23 said on the cover "1st issue in a bold new era for extreme." Um, no, it's not the 1st issue it's the 23rd! What am I missing? I really like how Mouse Guard handles issue numbering. Everything is based around a year or subtitle and they just start at #1 from there. I think it's a better idea than numbering everything sequentially starting at 1 and expecting a newcomer to automatically know which issues a trade covers. I wish print comics adapted the "start here!" approach from Webcomics by at least offering a recommended reading list in the inside cover. e: This has got me thinking. I think book-style back covers or inside cover blurbs should become industry standard because I rarely see them. If I were an editor I would go out of my way to include a "recommended reading list" or to ensure the customer that the work stands on its own and no further reading is required. I noticed Mega Man does the cheesy Silver Age style "See issue XX for details!" and while I wouldn't break the fourth wall like that I would really appreciate something like "See where this character got his new power: *insert trade here*, for further reading of this character: *insert ongoing issue here*" I just don't feel like the industry is being as direct and friendly as it could be. Sometimes it feels like a super secret club with a NO CASUALS ALLOWED sign but then we complain about low sales and lack of respect in the medium. al-azad fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jul 20, 2012 |
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Jul 20, 2012 14:52
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Six AM posted:With some comic books I wish they didn't have a direct numbering system. Graham is only doing 12 issues of Prophet, so the whole thing should just be 1-12 with book title and arc title part X on the cover. Next team on the book, same treatment. Because of numbering on big two books, readers seem compelled to track down those #1's of recent reboots or low numbered books, or else they feel they are missing key elements of the story when they should just be focused on arcs. I agree with this as well. A lot of times no indication is made which issue of a story arc you're currently in. I would keep the issue total on the cover but would label it something like "Title: Story Arc Title - #X of X (total issue number in parenthesis)." Sometimes you'll see vague statements like "THRILLING CONCLUSION OF CHAPTER WHATEVER" plastered on the cover with no indication of where it actually began and at that point I'll just wait for the drat trade to do your job instead.
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Jul 20, 2012 17:51
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Fatima wasn't particularly engaging but it was giving me a pulp 60s/70s sci-fi vibe with its drug based plot, out of place lingo, goofy equipment like blow dryer guns, and codpieces. Bagge's Reset ended last week and it was a great story that started strong but ended abruptly so I'll give Fatima hopes for a redeeming 2nd issue.
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Jul 24, 2012 12:39
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bairfanx posted:So, I wrote a review of this boring comic, Only Living Boy. I hated it; it was probably one of the worst things I've read in a long time. The writer, some two weeks after we published the review, starts berating me on Twitter, insisting that I was guilty of gross incompetence for saying his story was a bad knock-off of Kamandi and confusing the Chrysler building with the Empire State Building (which had zero relevance to the story or my review). You talking about this?
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Jul 27, 2012 04:06
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bairfanx posted:Yup! I'm assuming it's this review? I'm reading this guy's tweets and he's not someone I want to support. I can understand loving your work but acting like a child over one negative review is inexcusable. Who the gently caress cares, what are you trying to prove by doing this?
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Jul 27, 2012 07:24
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I just finished reading Blacksad: A Silent Hell and here are my thoughts. Blacksad finds himself in New Orleans investigating the disappearance of a famous jazz musician and heroine junkie with personal ties to Blacksad's client. It's a very typical detective story set amidst New Orleans which is, of course, in the midst of Mardi Gras. Story wise I place it next to Arctic Nation and below Red Soul. It's a very straightforward murder plot and Canales takes a cleaner, easier to follow approach to the narrative which means the characters aren't as engaging like they were in Red Soul and they lack the sheer presence seen in Arctic Nation. However, being a simpler story means it's easier for newcomers to the character and the genre to get into. Red Soul and Arctic Nation are pretty heavy with themes like the Red Scare, sex, an allegory to Hannah Arendt's "Eichmann in Jerusalem" and the banality of evil, Electra complex, and racial tension in Southern America but Silent Hell most intense scene is a drug induced hallucination that lasts a single page. Visually this is Guarnido's strongest and weakest art. Most of the time he uses a diluted, transparent line unlike the strong, dynamic blacks from previous stories which gives everything a hazy look. Background details and scenery are weaker overall so the environments don't have the same amount of detail seen in previous stories. There are still some very surprising splash pages and scenery which remind you why Blacksad is one of the best looking comics on the market but overall it feels like Guarnido was harder pressed for time than his earlier work. With that said, this story probably has his greatest character work in the series. There's more attention paid to the details in how characters act and you can spot a lot of hidden visual cues and foreshadowing based on background elements. While the overall quality of the art isn't as good, Guarnido has pretty much perfected his visual narrative abilities. And saying this is Guarnido's "weakest" work is like saying the Sistine Chapel is less impressive on the ground than on a ladder. It's still loving gorgeous! I mean, look at this!  The book also contains some short stories and the "making of" booklet that demands a high price imported. It details Guarnido's ridiculously intensive process of painting his pages and the guy goes through a dozen sketches and preliminary paintings before he gets the setting right. It's both interesting and maddening to see how much work goes into each page. But gently caress, it's worth it because there's not a single page in any Blacksad comic that wouldn't look nice framed. I wish I had more hands because two thumbs up aren't enough. It's currently on sale at Amazon for about $10 so hop on it.
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Aug 2, 2012 02:43
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friendo55 posted:You've got me looking up American Flagg now - very interesting! Doesn't seem like it will matter that I'm not an American either. If I buy the first trade I'll get back to you. Thanks. If there's anything you walk away from American Flagg is it should be the power of a good letterer. It's a very text heavy story and Ken Bruzenak creates this future America overloaded with advertisements and logos that are realistic and modern. Lettering is one of those things that's kind of an afterthought in comics but American Flagg's text is art in itself and Dave Sim is the only other artist I would pit against Bruzenak.
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Aug 2, 2012 05:07
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I also think Image keeping the original numbers hurt sales as well. Prophet has strong word of mouth and I'm starting to see people in non-comic circles talking about it, but Glory came out of nowhere starting at issue 23 and nothing about it initially made me interested until people started talking.
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Aug 8, 2012 10:16
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I don't know how I feel about Half-Century War. It begins and ends with the first Godzilla movie and each book is supposed to be set a decade apart. I hope it goes into an original direction instead of following the films exactly because otherwise we'll get Mothra/Ghidora, MechaGodzilla, hit the Godzilla reboot, and end with SpaceGodzilla (please, don't). Godzilla's appeal are giant monsters going all out but I've always preferred Godzilla as a force of nature than an intelligent defender who fights bigger, dumber monsters. Buuuut the art is great and it's 20-something pages of explosions and awesome splash pages. I just don't want to see it turn into something stupid like the later Godzilla films.
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Aug 8, 2012 18:15
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Alright, according to Previews the story only used the first movie as a launching point and is going into an original direction. Bring on the monsters. I'm sure Stokoe could even make Jet Jaguar cool (but please, don't). E: Jesus, Becky Cloonan gets $500+ for her pages. al-azad fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Aug 8, 2012 |
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Aug 8, 2012 21:13
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James Stokoe is on 4chan's /co/ talking about Godzilla and showing off future pages and answering questions. In case you don't want to subject yourself to actually browsing 4chan, I'll paraphrase the topic: Page from issue 2 (linked for possible spoiler) And some miscellaneous info which I'll spoiler just in case: -There will be a space battle -Final showdown in Antarctica -Stokoe's favorite monsters are SpaceGodzilla and Ebirah -New, original monsters will appear in issue 3 -There are Mothra hippies -In talks with IDW about doing something special for the collected edition like a foldout cover -Godzilla's ridiculous scream is based on an oscilloscope readout from the first film. In regards to posting his work online: quote:"Haha, if I was worried about large demographics, I wouldn't be in comics. I just like my annual chat with fans. Also, I can smell from 10 miles away when people are talking about Godzilla. It's like blowing into a conch shell to assemble your team."
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Aug 9, 2012 16:17
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