Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
I love bonsai! Here are some of mine, that I've been working on for the last couple of years.





A ficus that I've been working on, it began as a shrub. Currently in a sorry state, it has sphagnum wrapped around it to preserve an approach graft. One of my favorite trees, it bounces back from everything. Also, something I purchased in a truly raw state.



Comparatively, this ficus is almost finished, and needs only 3-5 years of growth to finish its canopy. This tree has had quite a lot of trouble growing indoors, and I don't recommend large ficus for indoor growth, even with extensive indoor lighting.



Handsome juniper I won in an auction for quite cheap. The entire trunk was rotted through, and actually home to a group of ants. Although nontraditional, I quite like it. Plus, gently caress tradition. I have had very little to do with the development of this bonsai, although I did clean out the hollow trunk. This fall it will be wired and transplanted. I'm very excited for what comes about.



Beautiful ficus developed by a friend of mine. This is perhaps the oldest of my bonsai, it is some 50-60 years old. All that remains to be done is an increased ramification of the branches and a reduction of the apex.



The first of my forests. Developed from scratch over two years. Forests can look very beautiful very quickly!



The second of my forests.



A trident maple in the raw, developed from seed for bonsai. Already very nice and soon ready for a pot! I prefer to work with trees from this point, rather than suffering through the tedious development of the trunk.



Japanese maple likewise developed from seed for bonsai. Weak rootbase, which can be improved over a matter of years. Japanese maple bonsai are normally not quite so thick trunked, but I believe it will be a very naturalistic bonsai over some 4-6 years.

Edit: apologies for table breaking images, and for the monster post.

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Sep 25, 2012

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

a real rear end nigga posted:

All those small trees are cool.

RizieN posted:

Really loving cool.

Mr. Soop posted:

Aye, that Ficus done by your friend and that Trident Maple are really something else. (The Jurassic Park bit also really got me.) Well done work on that Juniper as well. I wouldn't say it's non-traditional even; it's actually very much in tune with the more stylized Chinese version of bonsai.

Thanks! The ficus and maple are definitely two of my favorites - I've already named the ficus the DNA tree because it looks like a double helix. From what I know of ficuses, it should only be two or three more years before it is 'done.' I'm interested in seeing what the branching is like in the maple with the leaves off, but I suspect there may be a lot of work to do. Non-traditional might be stretching it with the juniper - I've just never seen a hollow trunk literati before.

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Sep 28, 2012

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Belloq posted:

Decided to get in to this. Did a little reading and picked out a ficus orientalis (benjamina) that was already trained to see if I could keep it alive.

The little guy arrived today and I placed it on a box by a good east-facing window. It lost a couple leaves in shipping, but overall looks okay. They sent me a "humidity tray" too, with instructions to fill it with gravel and water to increase the humidity around the plant. I'll pick up some gravel toward this end tomorrow.

Some of the leaves are lighter green, and they're all curled... I think it needs a drink. Will post some pictures when I get all set up.

Oh, it has very light green fuzz at a couple places on its trunk... looks like moss or lichen or something. I think this is a stress sign, right? What should I do to clear it up?

Nice choice! Ficus are pretty much immune to pruning, but they can be vulnerable to pests and are difficult to wire. Still, great little trees and perfect for learning, also they got that cool rainforest vibe. Your ficus might drop its leaves due to stress, but don't worry, they'll grow back. Humidity trays don't do that much in my experience- what really help them out is a nice terrarium and a humidifier. In that environment you'll also get significant aerial root formation, which can look badass and be used to address flaws in the branch or trunk(s).



Supplemental lighting is also really a great thing to have with indoor ficus. It will speed up growing time, help keep your leaves small and basically make you have a lot more fun with your bonsai. Here is the difference in leaf size between a bonsai I was growing indoors that I moved outdoors - may not be as extreme as the results you can get with a fluorescent light bulb, but still, you can see how bright light makes things easier.



Finally, nah the green fuzz on the trunk is probably just moss or a lichen and won't harm your tree. You can remove it with a wirebrush or just leave it on.

http://www.bonsaihunk.us/ficusforum/FicusForum.html

This guy knows ficus bonsai and is really awesome.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Tamgerine posted:

Would you please explain to me more about the terrarium and humidifier? Do you just...turn it upside down on top of it and put the humidifier in? It doesn't prevent the tree from getting enough oxygen, or do you only do it on and off?

I'm going to be moving into a barracks room soon and won't be able to keep my tree outdoors as much as I'd like. I purchased an indoor growing light for it, but do you think I should get a terrarium and a humidifier as well? I have a dwarf schefflera.

No, just put it in the terrarium and cover a portion (say 80%) with saran wrap. put the light over the top and you have a great place to grow ficus or schlefflera, with or without a humidifier. I wouldn't worry about it, if it's going to be a hassle - it mostly serves to encourage the growth of aerial roots, so if you're a fan of those you can also get the same result by wrapping the trunk with sphagnum moss and saran wrap.

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Sep 29, 2012

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Belloq posted:

Any grow light recommendations? Do the incandescents work as well as the fluorescents?

Ideally use a metal halide lamp. These are basically the best thing next to real sunlight, but are expensive and noisy as all get out. In most cases you can just use fluorescent lightbulbs. I wouldn't recommend using incandescents, but a compact fluorescent in an incandescent socket might work.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

ante posted:

I've done some more research, and it looks like it would be possible for me to grow one inside, which would be ideal.

I also work out of town a lot, sometimes for a couple weeks at a time. I'll probably wait on buying a bonsai until I can build myself something that will mist a few times a day on a timer, and something that will water it every couple days. I don't even know if that will work, I've never grown a plant before :ohdear:

Nobody answered the dude above about any fruit-bearing bonsai trees. Has this ever been done before? Tried and failed? Never tried?

No juniper will do well inside, there's a lot of misinformation floating around on the web. Even if they look like they're doing well, they're not. Trust me, your best bet is keeping it outside. If you want an indoor tree I'd advise getting a ficus or a jade tree.

Yes, some bonsai bear fruit!



This one was done by my bonsai idol, Walter Pall, who's really stirred up a mess over the years.

Belloq posted:

I of course have it in the humidity tray the seller sent, and have been misting it every other day or so. Would packing moss around the base of its trunk encourage more root development, or do the roots form in the tree's canopy?

Cute little ficus! I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'encourage root development.' Do you mean the root development of the nebari (root base) like this monster:



or development of aerial roots coming off the trunk and branches as in here:



Development of the nebari will just take time, but you can encourage the growth of aerial roots by wrapping the trunk in sphagnum moss, and then wrapping that in aluminum foil or cellophane.

Some links:
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/ficusforum/FicusTechniques/FigTechnique4.html
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/ficusforum/FicusTechniques/FigTechnique32.html
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/BanyansStranglerEpiphytes.html
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATApproachGraftingRootsProgression.html

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Oct 3, 2012

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

The Door Frame posted:

I'm worried about the frost destroying my juniper's roots in that tiny pot, I'm in Chicago, so it's not like the cold alone will kill it. Will it survive the winter out doors or do I bring it in before first frost?

Honestly I live out in Texas, so I've never had to deal with frost on my junipers. I'm definitely out of my depth here. From what I've read unless you're talking about unseasonably cold temperatures, evergreens tend to do ok.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_WinterCare.html

This is one of my favorite bonsai sites, have a poke around, lots of good articles.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

jackpot posted:

Here's my lovely looking jade - the guy's so top-heavy it can't even support itself. Where should I cut? Or should I at all? Dumb question, but when they say you should usually only prune in spring and summer, does that matter for indoor plants?



Let it grow if you want it to thicken, cut it back if you want it to branch out. I tend to not worry about when to prune with my ficus, as long as it is growing vigorously. I would recommend purchasing a much larger pot, and letting it grow for several years uninterrupted.

The Door Frame, I would think that you'd be ok keeping it even outside all year. Did you purchase the juniper from a local nursery? Or was it living in a different climate previously?

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Zhaan posted:

Going by my local climate, I was thinking of starting out with a Trident Maple, but I have a few follow-up questions.

What is the rough cost of a pre-bonsai Maple? If it's elsewhere on this thread, I may have accidentally read past it.

And which bonsai bear fruit? Is it consistent by season or does it depend on how you care for the bonsai?

You get what you pay for. It depends on how nice a bonsai you want to wind up with. A relatively cheap seedling might take years of growing in the ground to become a bonsai. If you want to grow bonsai from inexpensive stock, I'd recommend choosing a portion of your yard and just planting 5-10 saplings. I can find a guide for how to trunk chop them if that's what you'd like to do, but be ready to wait 10-15 years. Honestly, this stage of bonsai is monotonous, and I'd recommend buying a better quality tree.

Quality bonsai stock is expensive - I would expect to pay at least $150-500 for a trident maple that will become a good tree. Oftentimes excellent stock will be priced higher than mediocre finished bonsai even, and can cost thousands of dollars. Personally, I'd advise you to go to a site called http://www.thegrowinggrounds.com/

The fellow there has been growing trees with his father for quite some time. Most real big names of bonsai have passed through the nursery (Walter Pall, Colin Lewis, John Naka, etc.), and he grows really high quality stock. His trident maples are gorgeous, and you can get something that will become a specimen for around $300 - don't look at the prices on the website, my advice is to roadtrip out to see him if you can and chat him up about bonsai. Chances are he'll knock a couple hundred dollars off the price as compared to the website.

Fruit bearing bonsai bear fruit by season, but it's really dependent upon species and how they're kept. One of my ficus came to me bearing fruit, but despite keeping it for 3 more years has never flowered or fruited again. I'm guessing it's something to do with the nutrient ratio of the fertilizer I'm using? I don't know.

Edit: A great way to get cheap trees or older, more developed trees is to start going to your local bonsai club. Typically, their auctions are ill attended and have excellent trees.

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Oct 9, 2012

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Richard Bong posted:

I have a cat who is kind of a d-bag and has started chewing on my ficus leaves now that I brought it inside. Will the bitter apple stuff hurt the ficus if I spray it a few times until he stops going after it? I also put aluminum foil around it because cats apparently hate walking on it. If this isn't a good idea does anyone else know how to keep cats away from their bonsai trees?

Euthanasia. Bonsai > Cats.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

FloorCheese posted:

After being inspired by this thread, I went to an amazing local bonsai nursery (Bonsai West in Littleton, MA!) and got myself a lovely ficus and a natal plum. When I bought both, the staff told me that the ficus would be easy but the plum would be a little more finicky.

Fast forward about 2 weeks and my ficus is still really freaking out -- dropping several yellow leaves a day (it's a decently big bonsai, so it's about 10 leaves a day). The plum? Just dandy.

I'm sure the ficus is stressed since it was in a nice greenhouse until I took it away to my tiny Boston apartment, which has only one window (west-facing, floor-to-ceiling deal, can get a few hours of direct sunlight when it finally stops raining around here) but man, *I* am getting stressed looking at my lovely ficus just dropping leaves like it's going out of style.

My place is pretty humid normally (I have a humidifier going) and I always have a low fan running as well -- so the air is moving and it's not super-dry. I'm thinking it's just the drastic cut in light, especially since it's autumn?

Aside from the yellow leaves, the ficus looks just fine -- it even has new shoots and is fruiting, of all the things. But the pace of yellowing leaves hasn't slowed down, which is starting to worry me.

The soil is moist, I have watered it I think 2-3 times in the past 2 weeks (the soil was moist when I got it), so perhaps I am overwatering it? Or no? Any ideas?

Honestly, sometimes they just seem like the most temperamental plants. Are you having any dieback of the branches? Are the yellowing leaves near the tips of the branches, or further back in the shrubbery? Do you see any insects associated with the plant? If you're getting fresh growth, I wouldn't be inclined to worry, but my guess is you should be watering more. What sort of soil are you using? Is it pretty organic and potting soil-ish or granular and more like gravel? These are hungry trees in my experience. They love light, they love food and they love water.

Post pics!

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Oct 16, 2012

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

FloorCheese posted:

Thank you both for your replies -- the plant isn't showing any stress anywhere else, the new shoots are healthy and continuing to grow. I'll snip off some of the fruits per your suggestion - I was thinking that might be something to try - since I think I have something like 15 baby figs (at least!) on this guy. All the leaves yellowing and falling off are definitely older ones in the back where there's less sun. I'm not too familiar with ficus yet, I was thinking this might just be the plant shedding leaves that aren't getting enough sun, but I don't want to make poor assumptions here :)

Definitely no bugs that I can see. I have been checking the dropped leaves for any scale, nothing yet. Nothing on the soil either. I think I am so far pest-free.

This is definitely slightly-more gravely soil, not standard potting mix by any stretch. It's not as gravely as succulent mixes (like the stuff I've used for cacti). I believe it's the greenhouse's proprietary bonsai soil mix of some kind: http://www.bonsaiwest.com/index.php/bonsaiwest/item/251

I do check it morning and night for moisture since it's still a new plant and I'm trying to get to know it better. We haven't had very much sun at all lately -- I think 1 hour of direct sun MAX a day the past few days -- so I am trying to make sure I am not overwatering.

I'd definitely water more - I usually give my ficus 20-30 seconds underneath a hose everyday and they're potted in soil very similar to your's. If I were you, I'd consider getting a cheap fluorescent lamp and supplementing the tree's light for ~8-16 hours a day. Like I said, greedy little trees - speaking of which, what are you using as a fertilizer?

Oh yo, that website is pretty awesome, I like those bald cypresses he's offering.

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 16, 2012

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

FloorCheese posted:

Even if the soil is still really damp? I am concerned I might *over* watering this guy.

I did just buy a plant lamp though - that definitely can't hurt. I have a feeling my poor ficus is just going through serious light withdrawal -- it went from probably a few good solid hours of light to, well, maybe one a day if it's lucky. (Normally it'd get more than that where I have it, but we have just had days and days of overcast weather lately.)

Ficus are rainforest plants, it's hard to overwater them. As long as they have proper drainage, they'll appreciate the moisture. Ideally I like to keep my bonsai in completely inorganic soil mix - say turface, haydite or akadama (although akadama can be a bit trickier). I feed them heavily, generally half dilution miracle gro every day of the growing season, or organic fertilizer applied every couple of weeks (outdoor ONLY). Because salts from fertilizer can build up in the soil, I also water heavily, partially to flush these salts out, partially because the fertilizer makes the plants thirsty. Using this method I have gotten 8" of growth on the leading shoot of even small ficus, in like, two or three months.

Good website describing it:
http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2010/06/feeding-substrate-and-watering-english.html

Yo, jerkstore, my trident and japanese maple have lost all their leaves. I wouldn't really worry about it though.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
Image dump!

For all you ficus growers, one piece of advice of advice I'd give is for everyone to keep whatever cuttings they prune off, stick them in some rooting hormone and just see if they grow.





The second plant is a clone of the first, and now I can use it as a donor for any approach or thread grafts that I might want to make. This sort of trick works very well with trident maple as well, and I'm loathe to cut off any large branch without first trying to air layer it.

Speaking of tridents, here's mine in her winter garb. Mr. Soop, I'd be interested in which you liked better as the front for this trident maple:





The strong arm branch near the base is a prime candidate for air layering. I'm also thinking of doing some hollow trunk style carving to correct some of those wounds.

Here is the japanese maple - I feel a little more sure of myself with this tree and can't wait to go in with some clippers, but I may wait a month or two.



For some reason the season hasn't diminished the growth of my ficus at all, in fact they're doing quite cool things with their roots.



Reminds me of Akira.

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 17, 2012

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

pants cat posted:

I've only found this thread today and I'm loving all the bonsai porn. To me, bonsai trees are just so.. magical, if you know what I mean? I can't explain it, it's the same sort of thing with nice aquascaped aquariums, like some beautiful miniature world.

Anyhow about 2 weeks ago I was thrilled to find a wee oak seedling in a flowerbed, maybe a gift from the birds or squirrels, and I would love to dig it up and bonsai it. Should I leave it to overwinter or get it inside now? The stem is about 3 inches tall and it has 3 leaves, last time I looked.

I've been meaning to start bonsai for years and have that many books on the subject but I just never got to it. I'm quite successful with plants and grow everything from seed and cuttings so I shouldn't find it a problem, but I think about how many years it would take to look how I want and then I start feeling old and sad!

You should check out Takashi Amano's stuff if you like fish tanks - he very much uses a similar aesthetic. As for your oak tree, you've got a lot of time and a lot of choices to make. Because it's so young, you can pretty much determine exactly how you want to develop the trunk, the style, etc. Unfortunately it will take between a long time and a very long time to get the tree in shape, so be patient and try to forget about the little tree for a while. Here's a good guide to field growing trees:

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATfieldgrowing.htm

You might think about relocating it to someplace in the yard where it will be easy to remove in five years, or maybe less if you'd like to train a shohin or mame sized tree.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

SniperWoreConverse posted:

What's the biggest bonsai? Can any size tree be a bonsai if it's cultivated correctly and has the aesthetic?



This is my biggest on his road trip from NYC to TX. Pretty much any size tree could be cultivated, but it can be seriously difficult to work with larger trees on your own, or to find pots that can fit them that don't cost an arm and a leg. Even super large bonsai tend to top out around this size. When this bonsai is more finished, I will likely have to commission an artist to build a custom pot. I will say though, it's an absolute joy to find birds roosting in its branches or anoles hunting amongst its leaves.



This is the biggest I've ever seen photos of.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012


Worked on the forest some, I'm quite pleased with it. I think the lush foliage covers up some of the technical flaws, and I'll likely have to do some serious pruning to address those. I'm excited to start reducing the root base as well, and get it in a shallower pot. I don't like the two wounds on the main trunks - they look like puckered anuses on my trees. No idea how to fix that though.

Speaking of, Soop, you ever repot a ficus in midwinter? My DNA tree, the nice ficus, looks like it's rootbound in the pot. I'm contemplating just buying a larger pot and plunking it in there for the season, then trim back its roots next summer. My thought is that as long as I don't trim the roots it should be a better situation for the tree. Thoughts?

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Dec 17, 2012

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Mr. Soop posted:

Good question. I've heard that indoor bonsai are more tolerant of repotting due to the typically non-changing environment of the house, but from my experience they are prone to pick up on seasonal changes anyway.

That being said, under normal circumstances, while you CAN repot now, it might be best just to wait until late February to do it. However since you aren't going to be doing any root pruning, I'd say it's probably fine to repot. Growth might be stunted for a little bit, but fertilizer should supplement that just fine.

Gotta' say that you probably already knew all that though based on the cool stuff you've shown. :3:

Ha, I guess I should know all of this stuff, but I still feel pretty insecure with my technique. I find myself delaying work on the trees and spending a month or so thinking before I make a cut. I guess part of the reason I'm nervous about this repot is that I want to change out the soil media that my friend had been using. He uses a much greater amount of organic particles in his soil - I'm more comfortable using inorganic gritty mixtures, even with ficus. Would there be any reason to worry about bare rooting the tree?

EagerSleeper, I sympathize with your quest for pots. I'm currently looking for containers for my japanese maple and trident maple. There are many guidelines for how to pair a tree and a pot. If it is a strong, masculine tree, you would use a rectangular container. Feminine trees are planted in round containers. In general, deciduous trees are placed in glazed pots, conifers in unglazed pots. Many glazes are only slight hints of color - the brightest splashes are reserved for mame, flowering or fruiting bonsai. The style of a bonsai pot also depends on the style of a tree. Cascade bonsais are grown in pots that are much taller than they are wide, literati bonsai can be grown in drum style pots, round pots or primitive pots, which mimic stone landscape. Forest bonsai are planted in long shallow containers, sometimes rectangular or rounded, but also sometimes irregularly shaped or simply a slab of rock. The measurements of the pot depend on the tree - in general I just kind of eyeball it, but there are quite a few rules for how to appropriately size a tree for its pot. This is not just a matter of aesthetics, it's also crucial for the health of the tree, as over or underpotting a tree can weaken it in time. Whoof, that's a lot of words about pots. One thing to keep in mind though, just as folks have started to play with the rules of bonsai, you can find some very interesting and creative examples of bonsai pot these days.

Most of my bonsai are relatively undeveloped, so I usually use Korean mica pots from bonsai-mart.com. They're pretty cheap, relatively inoffensive and sufficiently 'bonsai' looking. They're also a lot lighter weight than most real pots. I've also bought a couple of pots off ebay, when I'm looking for something a bit nicer. If you're going for an artificial tree, I'd just go with one of those. I know there are quite a few folks selling their bonsai pottery by commission as well.

Edit: Whoa, just found this- http://www.bonsaiempire.com/advanced/bonsai-potters-america
I kind of really want some Sara Rayner pots now!

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Dec 27, 2012

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
That's a drat fine chart! I think the position of the tree in the rectangle is misleading though - a formal upright might look better in the center of the pot. Do you have any pictures of your friend's pots? I started thinking about making my own after looking at some of Nick Lenz' stuff, so I'd love to hear how she got started in all that.



Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Mr. Soop posted:

Those Nick Lenz pots are pretty boss, and they're a great example of non-traditional bonsai pots that are becoming popular little by little.

Yeah, I love his pottery - sometimes I think that they cover up for weaker trees though.



quote:

As for my friend, she's made a a couple bonsai pots for me and my ex, but she lives out of town 200+ miles away from me, so I haven't gotten to see them yet. And, as I just found out from her not an hour ago, she dislocated a rib a month or two back and it's very painful for her to throw pots on a wheel right now. :smith:

Sorry to hear that, I hope that your friend makes a speedy recovery.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

neurotech posted:

I have what looks like a Baby Jade (?) in my rented apartment's front yard.





I'm super new to bonsai. Should I attempt to take a cutting or two and plant them?

Why not dig up the whole thing?

Edit: I am an idiot and should read more closely. Totally take a cutting, OR air layer a bit that looks like a tree.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATLayering.html

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jan 8, 2013

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

The Swinemaster posted:

I don't know anything, but I read that that's called "jin" and is done by simply stripping the bark off of the area you want to dry out and die. Sounds pretty straightforward but :shrug:

I believe it's called a 'shari' if it's done on the main trunk of the tree. It's pretty traumatic to the tree, and I've killed a few by trying to create the deadwood during the wrong season or what have you. By the same token, attacking a bonsai with power tools and a blow torch feels pretty epic.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

AwwJeah posted:

I decided to dive into bonsai gardening after being enamored with the practice since I was a child and what do you know, I made the amateur mistake of buying a bonsai kit to grow black pine seedlings that aren't at all suited for the environment I'll be growing them in. Whoops!

So now I want to grow a bonsai from trimmings and basically what I'd like to know is what should I be on the look out for when choosing a good trimming? Things beside a healthy looking parent tree. What would an ideal branch look like? I know from the OP that the time is nearing to gather good trimmings so I'd like to be prepared for when the time comes. I want to grow at least one sick rear end bonsai before I'm too old and dead to have grown something respectable, so now is the ideal time to get started on that project.

This thread has been a great resource for all the noob questions that a Google search hasn't been able to answer for me.

I'd recommend going for nursery stock rather than trimmings or air layerings. Even with a nice thick air layering, you might need several years of in ground growth to get something nice to work with and, no offense, but learning how to bonsai is going to take killing a few trees. After investing a few years into growing your cutting up, that could be pretty heartbreaking. Nursery stock will be better developed, you can get a reasonably nice looking tree in a year or two and you'll be able to hack the poo poo out of it, kill a few trees and not feel so bad. 5 gallon junipers are like, what, $20? Buy five of them, see how much pruning they can handle, how to get the most growth out of them, etc. save up some money and after 2-3 years buy a well developed juniper of the same species.

Look for a tree with lots of low branches with foliage close to the trunk, nice radial spread of roots and a trunk with interesting lines.

http://ofbonsai.org/selecting-and-purchasing/bonsai/bonsai-on-the-cheap

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

AwwJeah posted:

Thanks for the great article. I honestly had no clue that most bonsai are reduced down dramatically from their original size and that's probably THE most valuable piece of beginner information I've gathered so far. That's a HUGE development in my understanding of bonsai.

After poking around online, I think I'll be getting myself some 3-5 gallon Maple, Cherry, and a Boxwood to see which of the 3 will fair best under my supervision. I'll for sure be popping into this thread after my visit to the nursery because I'm going to need all the goon advice I can get to make this endeavor successful.

Is there an ideal time of year to be visiting a nursery for these particular plants? I imagine the costs and quality of plants at a nursery must fluctuate dramatically during certain periods of any given season? Is this even something I should be taking into account and concerning myself with?

No problem, if you look at some of my bonsai, you can see where trunk chops have been made. You should probably be able to grow anything that they stock in your local nursery. Pruning, especially major pruning like a trunk chop or what have you, can be stressful and the timing depends on the species. With that said, with cheap nursery stock, you might want to play around with it, see what the plants can tolerate and what kills them. I don't know that the costs will fluctuate all that much, you should be ok just going in with fifty bucks and getting a small collection together. If you can find a nice ficus, they tolerate weed whacking really well.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

platedlizard posted:

I'm doing it. I'm going to bonsai some chilis this year, following Fatalii.net instructions. It's probably a bit late to start some seedlings this year, but oh well. They're not 'true' bonsai, because a chili plant isn't a tree, but I think it's about my speed. I just ordered some Trinidad Perfume chili pepper seeds, which are not supposed to be hot (and therefore should be palatable to my mother who cannot stand capsicum) and we'll see how it goes. If this is moderately successful I'll see about picking up some nursery trees later.

Anyway, the basic plan for chili bonsai is to grow the chili outside in full sun (or as much full sun as western Oregon can give me) in five gallon pots to try to get the plant as big as possible for a nice large mature looking "trunk". When fall comes around and fruiting is over, take them inside and do some serious pruning and training down to bonsai size. Apparently chilis can handle aggressive pruning like that just fine. The site says that I can maintain them like that for as long as I want, or replant them outside the next year for another large bush (then take inside and trim to bonsai size again)

Quite a lot of bonsai are made out of shrubs and such, so I'd say it counts as a bonsai as much as any boxwood tree. Many junipers and pines also have shrublike growth forms. I guess I'm not very impressed by the results, but it is nice that they grow so fast.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Squirrel007 posted:



These are three japanese maple saplings that I ordered from a seller on amazon. Ive got them in a perlite/soil mixture and ive done some very light pruning to two of the saplings. I think I over watered the plant on the far left so ive aerated the soil and put some extra perlite on top to try and soak up some excess water. Since ive planted them the leaves have perked up a lot which is nice to see.

What should I be doing to get these guys going? My main mission thus far has been trying to get them healthy after their shipping. These were planted two days ago.

also im in NC at zone 7b

The bigger a pot you can put them in, the better. As unprofessional said, an inorganic mix would be great, I even like to use completely inorganic with my trees. This let's me regulate their nutrients and water myself, although it does mean that you have to be diligent about watering and fertilizing - at least I don't worry about rot. Even better than putting them in pots would be to put them in the ground and let them grow for five or ten years. If you're in NC, you should check out the growing grounds, really one of the best bonsai nursery's I've been to.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Squirrel007 posted:

Word! ill have to check it out next time im in charlotte.

So should I be looking to replant my trees in a perlite/lavarock/small amt of organic matter mixture in the near future?

I dunno, depends on how organic the mixture you got now is. If you think it's holding on to water, I'd try to gently shake them out and put them in something that is much more free draining - your mix might be ok if the organic matter is tree bark and not cow poo poo. Root rot is a bitch and kills stuff like no other. Honestly though, I'd put them in the ground and work them with a few trunk chops over the years, because it's going to take forever to thicken them trunks up in a pot. You won't have much to work with for at least like, three or five years, even if you put it in the ground and let it grow freely, nevermind if you keep it in the pots.

Might be able to get something like this:


or this



in terms of trunk thickness and shape after a year or two, then work on branching and reduction of root ball, etc., etc. but everything will go faster if it's in the ground, according to what I've read anyway. I only have a few trees growing in the ground right now to be honest.

Hit Marc up at the growing grounds when you can, he has great bonsai stock, but it is a bit expensive - I'd guess you won't be able to find a tree for less than $150 or so, but every single one you find will have great potential. He won't see you without an appointment, and I'd encourage budgeting a full day to hang out. He doesn't have any prices written down, he just 'remembers' them for each tree, and I think that if you admit that you're a novice, let him share some of his wisdom and ask a lot of questions the price goes down. Bring cash, as far as I know he doesn't use credit card, although that might be changing. One of the few bonsai nurseries I've ever been to that actually grows the trees from seed/cuttings, and it's really worth your time to see how that process is done.

I'm currently saving up money for a second trip out there :3. I don't want to sound like a billboard for the dude, but he does offer top notch stock that would be 4 or 5 times as expensive at any other nursery.



Baby black pine bonsai in foreground, trident maple in back ground.

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Apr 16, 2013

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Squirrel007 posted:

I currently live in an apartment so I dont really have much ground to plant in. If I were to plant them in 5 gallon buckets would I be doing better things for them?

I think I spoke too soon! I've been doing some reading, apparently overpotting is not a good thing. I might not be giving you the best advice, but I'd think that just continuously upgrading the size of the pot.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics%20Bonsai%20Myths%20Overpotting.htm

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
This is a pretty cool resource!

http://andyrutledge.com/book/index.html

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
I've had bad luck growing moss in my pots, although there's some that's hanging on. Lots of cute clover and small plants that look nice with the bonsai though. Jackpot, I was having some trouble with my willow leaf ficus, and they were looking beat up like your tree. I've since repotted them in a deeper pot and they're doing much better. It may be an idea for you to try out. Right now I'm getting ready to make an air layer on my japanese maple, which has bounced back from the winter quite nicely. I've had over a foot of growth on some shoots!



Edit: I just built myself a really ghetto bonsai bench!

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 21:33 on May 21, 2013

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
Thanks! I'm about to try using some bricks and fenceboards to create a lower shelf actually! I found some slugs and snails lurking underneath one of my ficus forests and feel that I need to elevate them a bit. Nice spot on the Peter Chan book! I will definitely purchase it. Have you ever read "Bonsai with Japanese Maples"? I'm considering purchasing it.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
Spent all morning defoliating three of my ficuses. Grueling work, but it's made me appreciate the trees a lot more - the branch structure isn't that bad. Can't wait to see the new leaves in a few weeks. For those not in the know, defoliation is a very common, pretty much mandatory, process where you remove all leaves on the plant to increase ramification and reduce leaf size. Have a couple new (large) additions to the bonsai stable as well.



Forest looks pretty nice without leaves!



Love the tree, hate the color of my pot. A tree raised for ten years by my teacher, I plan on putting it in a turquoise/lavender-ish pot. Ready for finishing.



I think this is becoming quite a nice tree. Next year I'll put it in a bonsai pot. The leaf in the pot was actually from this tree! Very out of scale.



New pot! Probably a bit too small, but whatever, I like the color.



Girlfriend bought me this as a birthday present. Can't wait until it blooms!

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 9, 2013

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
Yes it is. Amazingly easy to grow, mine has put on 3 feet of growth in as many weeks. The wood is very soft though, and I will have to seal it somehow to protect it.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
Thanks Jeah! I've been told that defoliation helps increase ramification and shrink the size of leaves. I know it's done very often with ficuses and tropicals in general, and semi-often with maples, such as japanese and trident maples. Maples might be where you got your impression of defoliation being practiced on decade old trees. Tropicals seem to recover very quickly from such treatment, and can be defoliated any year you haven't repotted your tree. Defoliation significantly slows growth though, so don't defoliate a tree if you're looking to thicken its branches or trunk.

This is my first time defoliating, and I have done it because most of the branches on my trees have reached the desired thickness.

http://www.bonsaihunk.us/Defoliatingfigs.html

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jun 10, 2013

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

A human heart posted:

Defoliating is quite stressful so you probably want to limit it to established, healthy plants. Unless you've got an established plant there's probably not much point in doing anyway, since you don't really want to start reducing leaf size until you've got the general shape and ramification of the plant down.

I would say that you want to start defoliating after you've established your primary branch structure and it has grown to the desired thickness, but also that defoliation helps establish shape and ramification. It took me two years of working with these trees to get them to that point, so they're not necessarily all that old.



drat I love this tree.

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jun 11, 2013

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012
Quick and dirty virtual image:



I like this angle as the front, but would shorten the tree down considerably with the addition of a jin. The trunk is thin enough that you could add some wriggle and movement to it. Branch structure can come later. This is only a first step though, you could refine it into quite a nice tree at some point. Make sure it is healthy before doing any work.

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Economic Sinkhole posted:

Looks great, I like this a lot. The tree needs to be shorter anyway, I think. It appears to be quite root-bound as well. Would it be a good idea to repot it into a larger pot without trimming the roots as well, or would it be too much stress on the plant?

I'm not great with junipers (I've managed to kill pretty much every single one I get my hands on - I blame my climate), so I'll defer to Mr. Soop if he chimes in, but I think that slip potting is always ok. Be careful what sort of soil you put it into.

Edit: A thought.



(Clear away all non paint foliage)

Crocoduck fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Jun 12, 2013

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

dragoat posted:

Hello everyone! Just finished reading through the thread and am happy to find so much great info for taking care of bonsai's. I haven't done much gardening before, but this thread caught my eye and these miniature trees look amazing so I thought I'd give it a go. So I went out and picked up this guy at my local nursery.





It's a Juniper (Procumbens Nana) which I selected due to the OP saying it should be a great starter tree. I have a few concerns about this one however.

Cute little guy!

quote:

1) The trunk of it seems very thin and it really moves around a lot, I'm worried it's not rooted in well or just isn't strong enough to hold up its weight

2) The way it's leaning right now doesn't look to great from an aesthetic viewpoint. Is there someway I can get it to sit upright more? if not I'd at least want it to lean less to the back which you can see in the second picture.

3) I have no idea what kind of soil mixture it has right now and aside from it looking nice and green I have no idea how healthy it is

4) I've read in the thread that you can use either a general all purpose fertilizer or some bonsai specific type. However, we didn't have either of those readily on hand (not really). In the mean time that blue stick you see in the dirt is actually some sort of all purpose slow release fertilizer, which I cut in half because I figured the full stick might be too much for it. I guess my question is here will this be ok for it?

1) Trunk would need to thicken to make a really nice tree. I'd plant it in the ground to do this.

2) Could certainly wire some movement into it. Too many straight lines looks unnatural and uninteresting.

3) Yeah, problem is that it could certainly be a recently rooted cutting, so you don't know if the soil is good. I'd encourage putting it into a high quality bonsai soil asap.

4) I would use a different fertilizer instead of the stick. I'm still trying to get the hang of fertilizing conifers, but I like having a small collection of brands I can rotate through.

quote:

In the long run I'd really like to try to get a willow bonsai, as they're my favorite trees. Possibly some sort of forest type as well, although my current goal is definitely just to make sure I won't kill this one.

Willow bonsai are difficult to get looking good, because of their growth habits. If you like weeping trees, it's easier to start with some other species, such as wisteria. Forest plantings are very easy to put together and can look very good in only a year or two, with inferior trees. Set one up this summer!

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

RizieN posted:

It's actually two of them, and one appears to be dead. So I'm going to re-pot it and remove the dead one tomorrow. I also ordered 3 pre-bonsai trees. Parrots beak/Gmelina philippensis, a Dwarf African Strangler Fig, and a Brazilian Rain Tree - Chloroleucon tortum. I'm pretty stoked to get those in and start working with them.

Nice picks! Ficus and Gmelina are really insanely easy to work with.

EagerSleeper posted:

While looking up pictures to use as a model while creating my own artificial bonsai, I stumbled upon this person:

http://fusionbonsai.com/fusion-project-2/

Basically this person is taking 150 Japanese Maple seedlings and trying to fuse them into a single bonsai tree. Has anyone heard of something like this before? It seems interesting but a little unethical to me, but I'd like to see if his experiments pan out to anything. Also to add to the the mad sciencist feel I get from his blog, his avatar is pretty creepy.

Doug Phillips pioneered this technique with trident maples if I remember correctly, I suspect that it would work better with them because of their stronger growth habits. He managed to get some nice trees out of it. I don't think there's anything unethical about it, the plants don't suffer anymore than they do in normal bonsai training. Ficus are also often fused. Good way to get a strong tree from young stock.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Crocoduck
Sep 25, 2012

Mr. Soop posted:

So long as the temp doesn't dip or rise rapidly, and you keep it in a warmer place during the colder months, a Ficus would be ideal.

I don't think a ficus would tolerate a dip into the thirties very well, but I could be wrong. Mine have dropped leaves from temps in the 40s.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply