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Liquid Dinosaur posted:So they broke the emergency glass and advanced the storyline and are bringing back primarchs and such. Are they ever gonna do that with Primarchs #2 and #11? I feel like that's something they're holding in reserve for like ten years from now when they've run out of primarchs to bring back and need the next glass to break in case of emergency...?
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Aug 11, 2018 19:01
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 09:49 |
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Re: Helmets: Back when I hated Space Marines, the Mark IV was my favorite helmet because it was the least Space Marine-y helmet and the one that most discards the normal Space Marine aesthetic for something approaching what fans of other science fiction action properties expect from the helmet of a group of future super-warriors called "Space Marines," instead of the doofy scowly vox grills and beakies and the Mark II and III, which are just medieval armor helmets. Now that (God help me) I actually like Space Marines (thank you, Raven Guard), the Mark IV has become my least favorite helmet... because it's the least Space Marine-y helmet and the one that most discards the normal Space Marine aesthetic for something approaching what fans of other science fiction action properties expect from the helmet of a group of future super-warriors called "Space Marines." So my suspicion is Primaris have Mark IV helmets because that's the helmet that tests the best with non-40k fans, and the goal was to create something that would attract new people.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:33
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The Ciaphas Cain novels have video transmission via astropathic choir, complete with Cain going "Wait, can you handle video?" to the receiving astropath and the astropath going "Sure, it's easy, you just [technobabble]." And then the video ends up killing that astropath because it's full of chaos bullshit, but they still get it recorded so they can watch it on lovely grainy monitors. But, you know, Ciaphas Cain. It could be taking the piss.
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Oct 6, 2018 20:39
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Werix posted:That's why in my head cannon Marines Malevolent are a descendant chapter of Iron Warrior marines. Just like in my head cannon Space Sharks are loyalist World Eaters. MizPiz posted:Space Sharks are blatantly Night Lord successors susan posted:They're a Chimeric faction, with lines from World Eaters, Ravenguard, Night Lords, etc. Possibly spliced together on a genetic level. Tias posted:This thread has tried to hash out Carcharodons Astra origins before, I maintain they're Raven Guard, as alluded to in the War of Badab book. I'm just going to quote Future Villain Band's excellent summary from over on RPGnet: PART 1 "Okay, when the Primarchs got lost in space, their Legions were still on Earth, getting used to conquer the Earth and solar system. The Emperor kind of wrote off the Primarchs until he realized they were still out there, and used the Legions for various jobs, and as primarchs got rediscovered, they were put in charge of their the legions based on their gene-seed. Corax was discovered pretty late in the game, so in the meantime his legion, who was made up of what we would call 'Oceanian' ethnic groups from Earth, got utilized by a lot of people. On their own, they were fond of using the tactics their technotribes had perfected, such as strikes at dawn and strikes from ambush, but Horus used them as the bait in various traps. He would use the XIXth Legion as the bait in traps, where attackers would be drawn to elements of the XIXth and then Horus' forces would sweep in and beat the tar out of them. This units chosen for this dubious tactic were nicknamed 'The Ashen Claw' by Horus. The XIXth Legion as a whole gained the nickname The Pale Nomads based on the techno-tribes they came from and their habit of attacking at dawn. "Corax eventually gets rediscovered and put in charge of the XIXth, but he doesn't like what he finds. The troops from Earth don't fight according to his tactics, they're too close to Horus, and worst of all -- they're from slaver stock. Corax hates slavers. So over the years he does his best to bring in new recruits from his own homeworld and slowly wean out the Earth-born members of the XIXth. This climaxes in a doomed frontal assault during the Great Crusade that Corax got committed to by his fellow primarchs, especially Horus. Corax felt like the assault was more his Earth-born troops' cup of tea, so he sends them in, and they get slaughtered. There is some talk that this was done to winnow out the Earth-born troops, but Corax was right there in the poo poo with them, and they were better at direct attacks than his hand-picked troops, who were good at hit and run. "Anyway, the Great Crusade ends, and Corax decides to rid himself of the remaining Earth-born troops by sending them out to conquer the edges of human space. 'Hey, think of it as a Second Crusade, population: You,' Corax says. 'Don't bother to write. We'll be fine.' Pushing the boundaries of the frontier, the fleet forms into a 'nomad-predation' fleet, where they raid newly discovered worlds for material and recruits. "Then comes the Dropsite Massacre on Istvaan V. The Raven Guard are one of the three Loyalist legions who get their asses handed to them. They get chopped to bits, their numbers are drastically reduced, and they barely survive as a Legion. It is telling, perhaps, that even in the face of this disaster and those shortfalls, Corax would rather restructure his troops into a rag-tag guerrilla force than summon back his Earth-born troops. "Later on, during the Scouring, the surviving Loyalist legions are cleaning up the detritus of the Traitor legions. One of the top places on their list is the Nostramo system, where the Night Lords hail from. A fleet goes in there full of Ultramarines and Imperial Fists, expecting major resistance, and they find ruins. They also find a lot fewer people than they should. "They are perplexed by this, until they find an old data feed from the Horus Heresy, where an Ultramarine cruiser entered the Nostramo system and was forced to engage the Night Lords. The Ultramarines were about to get their asses handed to them, when a new cruiser shows up, traps the Night Lord ships between themselves and the Ultramarines, and then proceeds to kill every Night Lord they can find. Once they're done, they go in and raid the Night Lords homeworld, including much of the Legion's geneseed banks. "This group calls themselves the Ashen Claw. They make one communique to the Ultramarines: 'The Emperor consigned us to the care of a tyrant who wished to see us dead and forgotten; now that the Raven Lord himself is dead, we care not to see the collar of servitude around our necks once more, either for a turncoat Warmaster or a failed empire.' Then they head out of known space. "Recently, an Imperial scanning station received a communication, which the Administratum knows must be corrupted, for it comes from well within the Ghoul Stars, well past the border of the Imperium, but is dated from a year ago. It reads: 'Fourth Company reports the asteroid colonies of the Orcades have been brought into compliance as per the edicts of the Second Crusade, one million souls claimed for the Legion as bondsmen for our glory and honor. Expect our return to Atargatis within the month for reassignment.' "Must be a warp echo, they think, and bin it." PART 2 "So what does that have to do with the Carcharodons, you may ask? (Spoilers ahead for the novel RED TITHE.) "ALSO I WROTE THIS HURRIEDLY AND SPELLCHECK SCREWED UP ALL MY POSSESSIVES AND I DON'T CARE ENOUGH TO CHANGE IT BECAUSE I'M EXHAUSTED FROM WATCHING MY KIDS TODAY IN HEAT AND HUMIDITY THAT WOULD MAKE SATAN GO, 'NOPE NOPE NOPE.' "Well, ten thousand years after the heresy, the Tyrant of Badab shows up and is like, 'Hey, I'm going to go all Colonel Kurtz and build my own Legion. gently caress Roboute Guilliman, he's never coming back, amiright?' A number of chapters get pulled into this, working for and against the traitor Tyrant. Toward the end of the war, a new chapter shows up, heralded by a single cruiser, called the Nicor. They are a chapter no one's ever heard of, called the Carcharodons Astra. They are believed to have Raven Guard genestock, and they travel around in a nomad-predation pattern, which is rare, and where have I heard that term before? Amongst other things, later sources reveal, they are allowed by Imperial Writ to perform the Red Tithe and the Grey Tithe. The Red Tithe means they get to raid penal worlds and desolate hellscapes for slaves and new recruits, and the Grey Tithe means they get to raid enemies of the Imperium for materiel. "The Carcharodons Astra are hell on two legs. They're not the baddest guys in the galaxy -- the Executioners, for instance, are at least as scary as they are -- but they're pretty terrifying. They get sent after the Mantis Warriors, an honorable chapter siding with the Tyrant because they're under his command geographically. The Mantis Warriors run their planets pretty well, so the populace is hiding them. The Carcharodons are like, 'You know what brings noble warriors out of hiding? Burning their holdings.' So they attack civilian targets to bring out the Mantis Warriors, who are eventually put down. The Carcharodons also fight in the final battle against the Tyrant, where they're instructed to lower the defenses, which they do by blowing up the planet's surface by attacking its geothermal plants. "In the aftermath of the Badab War, a bunch of fleet-based chapters get awarded the traitor's worlds. The winners go to the Carcharodons, 'Hey, want a planet, want to settle down?' And they said, 'Nah, but we have this thing called the Red Tithe...' and the Imperial officials go, 'Oh, what's that?' and the Carcharodons' leader goes, 'Hold my drink,' and then proceeds to enslave an entire generation of people on the Mantis Warrior's worlds. "Now, there's nothing exactly linking the Carcharodons Astra to the Ashen Claws and thus the Raven Guard, except -- a) their battle-barge, the Nicor, was last seen being sent to the edge of the galaxy by Corax. B) There are hints in various sources that the Carcharodons have both Night Lord and Raven Guard geneseed, and their tactics look like a blend of both the Raven Guard's and the old Pale Nomad's. C) They have Oceanian cultural cues, like 'exile marks' that look like Polynesian tattoos. "My guess is the Carcharodons are one of the exile fleets from the Ashen Claws returned to the Imperium. The Imperium didn't want them pissing in the tent or pissing out of the tent, so they sent them to patrol the border, doing what they were good at, which was living off the land and killing poo poo. "Now, that's the stuff from the Horus Heresy books. There has been a single novel and short story released about the Carcharodons Astra, and the novel is called RED TITHE. The author of those, Robbie McNiven, talked to Alan Blighe about what the real history of the Carcharodons was, so he has the inside scoop, and says he has no plans to ever reveal it. He does say it's not necessarily what anybody has guessed. With Bligh's untimely death, this guy is probably the guy who controls the background of the Carcharodons from here on in. I'm not a huge fan of gaming tie-in fiction, but RED TITHE is pretty good. I have not listed much of the stuff from RED TITHE because, again, I'm unsure of its canonicity; I cite it just because it's cool and for me it's kind of canon." ... I will note FVB wrote the above before Outer Dark was published, which establishes that the Ashen Claws are still their own (kinda pathetic) thing, and that some exchange of materiel between the Ashen Claws and the Carcharodons Astra has occured. It also has a Carcharodon fight a duel with a captive World Eater in the Ashen Claws' gladitorial pits, with an Ashen Claw call out something like "How does it feel to fight a brother?" during; this lends credence to the proposition that the Carcharodons are semi-loyalist World Eaters, and maybe they traded the Nicor at some point in the past for some reason or other. On the other hand, it also establishes that as Carcharodons age, they mutate into weird monsters that are never described (to the reader; the forms of these monsters are explicitly not kept secret from Carcharodons, who don't hide their true nature from themselves), and these are explicitly not sharklike -- the Carcharodons chief Librarian Te Kahurangi says something like "In many ways, the shark is just a mask we wear over our true nature." I think my best bet is they're Raven Guard Raptors (the weird bird mutants) who fled the Imperium and connected with their long-lost cousins the Ashen Claws, reinforced with a lot of the Night Lord geneseed the Ashen Claws stole from Nostramo. Alternately they are a splinter faction of the Ashen Claws who weren't happy settling down. Stephenls fucked around with this message at 05:42 on May 3, 2019 |
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May 3, 2019 05:38
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Nice Marines feels topical to this thread.
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May 29, 2020 01:31
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I've been working on the assumption for years now that the Horus Heresy novels are the equivalent of fictionalized historical dramas about a hypothetical "real" historical period that we have no direct access to, the fictional equivalent of the Black Books' biased, half-informed in-character historical nonfiction. Some of the novels are probably really close to accurate; some of them are about as accurate as Braveheart. Which ones are which? Who knows! (But then I'm a weirdo about this; I also like the take that Fury Road is a later populist retelling of a real road war perpetrated by the rebellious Imperator Furiosa against Immortan Joe into which "Mad" Max Rockatansky has been anachronistically inserted by the teller as a folk hero, because it's a cultural convention that Mad Max always shows up in stories of that sort from around that era, where "that era" sprawls further forward and backwards from Max's probable lifespan as time goes on.) Stephenls fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Feb 5, 2024 |
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Feb 5, 2024 22:22
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 09:49 |
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spectralent posted:Isn't it outright stated at the start that the following is a later story ("word-burgers of the history men" or somesuch)? Yup.
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Feb 5, 2024 23:10
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