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Saying "hey guys, maybe we should think about making mark 3?" does not count as playtesting.
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Jun 28, 2016 23:10
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| # ? May 5, 2024 15:16 |
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Warmachine and Hordes: Altered Beasts, Power Up!
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Jun 28, 2016 23:22
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About to head to my WMH night, planning on the following list: Lylyth1 -Succubus -Typhon -Nephilim Bolt Thrower -Nephilim Protector -Seraph -Harrier Grotesque Banshees (max) 2x Grotesque Assassin 2x Strider Deathstalker Blackfrost Shard Shepherd I tried an iteration of this at Privateer Weekend that had Hex Hunters/Bayal instead of Seraph/Harrier/Succubus/Shepherd, but Hex Hunters got fairly well whacked in the Mk3 transition. I think if they still had stealth, I would keep the list, but as is, I'm looking at either those four items or a second unit of Banshees + Succubus/Harrier/Shepherdx2. Trying out this first before I buy or proxy a second Banshee unit. Five warbeasts on Lylyth1 with only one Shepherd might seem weird, but I'm not anticipating building a lot of fury on the Harrier or Protector.
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Jun 28, 2016 23:24
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My experience so far with mk3 had only been one game, but in that game I spent my first turn shooting his caster with a knockdown aoe 4, that was+2 To hit and +2 damage, with both attack and damage roll boosted, then making another ranged attack rolling three dice to hit and four dice of damage. I did the same again next turn and won. I think really the only way he could have stopped it would be to hold so far back that he couldn't contest objectives. I definitely feel like terrain is a big deal.
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Jun 28, 2016 23:26
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As much as the mk2 playtest was a shitshow from what I hear, mk3 needed a much more intensive playtest outside of PP HQ.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:17
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Khisanth Magus posted:As much as the mk2 playtest was a shitshow from what I hear, mk3 needed a much more intensive playtest outside of PP HQ. I saw a good post by Jay Larsen explaining why a field test wouldn't work with PP being the size it is now (though of course now I can't find it again). Basically, PP needs a lot more cash flow than they used to and the one thing a field test is sure to do is dry up sales until things are finalized. They've got data from the first one showing how few purchases people actually made during the test but they were a much smaller company then and could survive easier. Now they have a ton more operating expenses that need to get taken care of so they have to keep the window between announcement and release short. Also, when we do pick a new thread title can we get something vaguely positive? I know some people are saltier than Lot's wife at the moment, but a negative title is just an impediment to getting new people interested. Honest to god, I picked up this game because I was browsing TG and the current title caught my attention.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:32
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It's almost a dead certainty that they didn't put in 3 years of playtesting and are crutching on the errata/card release system to bridge the gaps where their probably moderate amount of playtesting missed some stuff. I don't feel like this is a game that was playtested for 3 years, but I guess I could be wrong. But overall as long as they fix problems I'm ok with them.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:44
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Pfft, they coulda released an awful kickstarter like all their other terrible properties. Cash flow problems solved!  edit: I could believe they have developed the game over the course of three years, but they certainly haven't had nearly that time with all their current Mk3 cards in a 'finalized' form, or whatever passes for that these days.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:50
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fnordcircle posted:It's almost a dead certainty that they didn't put in 3 years of playtesting and are crutching on the errata/card release system to bridge the gaps where their probably moderate amount of playtesting missed some stuff. IMO, the scheduled errata and card updates are the best thing about MKIII.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:53
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So I got together with a friend to try out mk3, and we whipped up some 35 point lists to rapidly try out some new rules and models. My Khador stomped his Menoth, generally speaking, and neither of us could come up with a good set of Menoth lists that would stand up to the nasty Khador core of 2 warjacks and some decent infantry. My theory is that 35 points is a really awkward level and probably benefited me more than him. Any thoughts on whether or not the game breaks down a bit at 35? Any good ideas or tips for Menoth in the new world? I wasn't trying to make dick Khador lists, but they all just came out dickish. Our games were... Butcher 1 > Sevvy 2 (which ended with a failed last ditch Sevvy assassination run which put the fear of god into Butcher before one-shotting the pope) Irusk 2 > Harbinger (wasn't even competitive, Behemoth and a mortar murdered so many mans) Vlad 2 > eReznik (not competitive, the feat clownshoed Menoth's screening infantry) Vlad 1 < Feora 2 (Feora sets stuff on fire! And kills Pikemen good so that a Judicator was able to scrap a a 'jack or two)
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Jun 29, 2016 00:55
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SterlingSylver posted:So I got together with a friend to try out mk3, and we whipped up some 35 point lists to rapidly try out some new rules and models. My Khador stomped his Menoth, generally speaking, and neither of us could come up with a good set of Menoth lists that would stand up to the nasty Khador core of 2 warjacks and some decent infantry. My theory is that 35 points is a really awkward level and probably benefited me more than him. Any thoughts on whether or not the game breaks down a bit at 35? Any good ideas or tips for Menoth in the new world? I wasn't trying to make dick Khador lists, but they all just came out dickish. Yeah jump on 50/75. 75 is what the old 50 is and what they generally balance for.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:59
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I feel like a faster errata and balancing cycle is a perfectly reasonable alternative to a field test, as long as they follow through on it. Even if they spent a year playtesting a finalised set of cards there'd still be things falling through anyway.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:59
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w00tmonger posted:Yeah jump on 50/75. 75 is what the old 50 is and what they generally balance for. It also sounds like the Menoth player was trying to run a lot of infantry and I think that's going to be an uphill climb in Mk 3 in general. More jacks, less dudes.
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Jun 29, 2016 01:14
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xiw posted:Even if they spent a year playtesting a finalised set of cards there'd still be things falling through anyway. That's really the rub of it, there's just no amount of closed playtesting for a game like this that can ever catch everything, it's only when it gets into the hands of thousands of players that you start seeing the real issues be they corner case interactions or really critical poo poo like not being able to charge a knocked down model. I'm fine with adjusting the cards as the game progresses but the fuckups in the books do irritate me. At the very least they needed a good editor to sift the rules into legibility and clarity.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:51
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Sure, there's errors that require close reading such as the charge thing. Then there's errors people saw immediately in like the first goddamn set of spoiled cards within about a minute of it going up.
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Jun 29, 2016 03:51
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Had a fun mk3 game tonight I'll post about later, but main thing I want to post about is that the store I played at tonight did not receive his mk3 release kit, and was told by the distributor(alliance) that they were only able to fulfill one stores orders. Whether they meant to this area, regionally, or what I'm not sure, but this does not bode well and after all of PP 's assurances is going to make them look really lovely.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:03
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Played the 75pt list I posted earlier into Calandra, and won, although it was on the back of some truly amazing (read: amazing in the poo poo sense) dice rolls loving my opponent at the end. I am playing Protector and a Dodge source, whether it's Zuriel or Harrier, in every Legion list from now until nerfing/Mk4.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:03
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Khisanth Magus - did your Alliance shop get anything? My lgs is alliance too and I'd at least like to know if I'm ever going to get my bloody cards.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:40
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counterspin posted:Khisanth Magus - did your Alliance shop get anything? My lgs is alliance too and I'd at least like to know if I'm ever going to get my bloody cards. That store got nothing. I'm hoping the somewhat larger store I did my actual preordering at got something, bit I'm not confident.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:43
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Well that sucks. Looks like PP screwed the new folks by not splitting out the battlebox casters and thus producing thousands of cyclopses that no one needed instead of more caster models, and screwed the vets by simply not bothering to print enough cards.
counterspin fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 04:53
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Matching what PP originally said, alliance said they expect more cards in a few weeks and more BBs in August. Which is a pretty hosed up launch if this is widespread.
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Jun 29, 2016 05:05
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My FLGS (I have one now) apparently got hosed on MK3. They ordered kits and product from 2 distributors, didn't get a kit from either, and will probably not even get enough product to fill all of the pre-orders. So the journeyman league is getting pushed off until product is actually available, which is a bummer. We were really excited to get back into the swing of things at an easy pace. I guess I'll just work on the mountain of unpainted models I already own 
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Jun 29, 2016 05:34
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Sounds like at least one LGS near me got everything in. Last I knew they used Alliance.
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Jun 29, 2016 05:39
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counterspin posted:Well that sucks. Looks like PP screwed the new folks by not splitting out the battlebox casters and thus producing thousands of cyclopses that no one needed instead of more caster models, and screwed the vets by simply not bothering to print enough cards. Not printing enough cards is mind-blowing though.
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Jun 29, 2016 05:44
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Huh, my store got everything it ordered (2 BB's per faction, cards, launch kits, etc).
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Jun 29, 2016 05:44
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Spiderdrake posted:I would love to hear the reasoning for producing battleboxes with near identical contents as the previous generation of BBs. It just seems like a waste of time, and makes seller older stock harder to sell off, so it's not really a great financial decision. On the bright side, the boxes being very similar means that when half the playerbase don't get a box, you can run a modified journeyman with either the new box or old box. They're all within 2 points of 0 cost in mk3.
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Jun 29, 2016 05:50
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we got everything we ordered (aside from release kit) from PHD. and I'm thinking of starting and going with Circle Oroboros, love the look of the Wolds. Pyronic fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 05:54
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GoodBee posted:IMO, the scheduled errata and card updates are the best thing about MKIII. Right up until the point that I'm going to be buying a set of cards tomorrow that already have cards in them that need to be replaced. My annoyance with this is somewhere around a 2 on a scale of 10 but I still think that's a poor showing.
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Jun 29, 2016 06:21
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Apparently my store ordered through GTS instead of Alliance because of problems they'd been having, and we've gotten everything. They only ordered 2 of each box plus preorders, but good to hear our journeyman will be able to go off.
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Jun 29, 2016 06:33
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So, game I had tonight was one of the closest games I've ever had. Mk3 obviously. I had the Vyros1 list I have been using(imperatus, banshee, sentinels w/ua and escort, invictors w/ ua, min halbs, 2x arcanists, magister) vs Harbinger w/ devout, reckoner, 2 units of daughters, tristan w/ sanctifier, 2x paladins, vilmon, mechanic, vassal, KES, 2x kick monks Despite playing Menoth a ton I completely overlooked the acrobatics and parry on the daughters. I went first and tried to jam with my halberdiers, followed by my Sentinels and invictors, with my jacks kind of on the ends of my lines. Turn 3 I thought I had a line to kill harbinger with Imperatus, but I missed on my banshee shot to push the one daughter in the charge lane out of the way, and martyrdom was able to let my opponent keep that daughter alive. I did get a series of 2 man CRAs against Harbinger that turn that did a bit of damage(after the 2 shield guards and her reducing the damage by 5 on the others). She had 10 boxes left. Imperatus could reach her via trampling and would be able to buy 2 additional attacks. If I had hit both attacks, I would have needed average damage rolls and I would have killed her. I missed the first, and hit the second, rolling exactly 7 and doing 5 of her remaining health. The next turn he had to dedicate pretty much his entire army to kill Imperatus. Somehow with the single shot from the reckoner and a single kicky monk he took out both the arms and the movement on my banshee, and I had badly positioned my remaining arcanist so I couldn't get him in to repair. I tried to let my banshee take a free strike from the monk so he could shoot harbinger and force one of shield guards before I shot again with my invictors, and of course he died from the free strike. The Invictors only did a small amount of damage due to that. Game ground down a bunch more, although most of the grinding was on the side of him killing my stuff. In the end I had Harbinger in range for Vyros to attempt a couple strangleholds on her with only 3 boxes left, which could have killed her if I had hit with either of them...which I didn't. He got a full round of pounding on my Vyros who was completely empty of focus. Despite the sanctifier being able to charge Vyros along with a paladin, and harbinger casting a cataclysm from 4" away Vyros survived with 1 box. At this point Harbinger was down to 2 boxes, and was 4" away from Vyros, with a Paladin between them. I forced my opponent to make a choice at that point: I cast Eliminator on the Paladin, killing him. At that point my opponent could either Martyrdom him to prevent Vyros from being able to do anything else that turn but killing the Paladin but risk dying on a roll of 3-6 on the Martyrdom damage, or else let Eliminator go off and let Vyros engage her with his 1 initial and 1 focus. Vyros would have actually had a difficult time killing Harbinger with just his initial and 1 focus due to Awe bringing him down to MAT6 against her DEF 14. He decided to gamble on the Martyrdom roll, took 2 damage from it, and suicided via Martyrdom. I actually kind of played the game all wrong, going pretty much exclusively for assassination and not just killing his stuff. I easily could have taken out his warjacks at parts of the game, but instead went for assassination runs.
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Jun 29, 2016 06:36
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So, forever ago, I bought a bunch of Cygnar stuff, and never ever played. I gave it to my friend, and he too, never played. But Mk3 is here, and that friend of mine swindled me into playing in a Journeyman League starting this Sunday by re-gifting me my old Cygnar stuff. Tomorrow I'm off to buy the new Cygnar starter. Looking at the Journeyman rules, I'm stuck with Maddox, Ironclad, Firefly and Lancer until Week 4; the rub is I really want to use Caine. He's my favorite character from the reading I've done, and want to switch over to him in Week 4. This means I have to build my list up with switching to Caine in mind - and I'm a little lost on how to get there. Here's what I've come up with so far. Sadly, I dont think I can get Ol' Rowdy or Ace in here because I'm stuck with a Firefly and 2 Lancers. Week 1: Maddox, Ironclad, Firefly, Lancer Week 2: Maddox, Ironclad, Firefly, Lancer x2 (10/10) Week 3: Maddox, Ironclad, Firefly, Lancer x2, ATGM x/UA (25/25) Week 4: Caine 2, Reinholdt, Firefly, Lancer x2; Strangeways, Ironclad; Gun Mage Captain Adept; ATGM w/UA; Rangers (50/50) Week 5: Caine 2, Reinholdt, Firefly, Lancer x2; Strangeways, Ironclad; Gun Mage Captain Adept x2; Eiryss Mage Hunter; ATGM w/UA; Rangers (62/65) Week 6: I dunno. I have 13 points to spend. Ace? Trenchers? another ATGM? Any help you guys can offer would be really appreciated! Fake Edit: From memory, I'll have: Caine 1 and Caine 2, Stryker 1, Maddox, Ironclad, Ol' Rowdy, Charger, Defender, Hunter, Firefly, Lancer x2, Rangers, Gun Mages with Officer, Black 13th, Strangeways, Journeyman Warcaster x2, Stormsmith Stormcaller x3, Squire, Reinhardt, Gorman Di Wulfe, Rutger Shaw, Eiryss Mage Hunter. I don't mind buying some stuff, but I'd like to use as much of what I already have.
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Jun 29, 2016 06:41
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Khisanth Magus posted:So, game I had tonight was one of the closest games I've ever had. Mk3 obviously. How does Harby feel to play against these days? Mk3 seems like it was very unkind to her, but you never know.
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Jun 29, 2016 06:42
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Magres posted:How does Harby feel to play against these days? Mk3 seems like it was very unkind to her, but you never know. Her scenario presence is a lot lower than it used to be, but 20" purification along with 10" awe and martyrdom are still real dick punches. She may not be a top level Menoth caster any longer, but she is still a pretty strong warcaster.
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Jun 29, 2016 06:52
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I'm typing up the new OP as we speak but it probably won't be done until tomorrow or the day after because I had a long day and I'm tired and poo poo
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Jun 29, 2016 06:59
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So I'm looking to get into Warmachine with the Journeyman league getting started locally in a couple weeks. Which faction should I pick if my primary interest in the game is lots of big robots? I know it's a new edition, which means the meta is still young and apt to change, but as it stands, which faction benefits the most from running a lot of warjacks?
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Jun 29, 2016 08:05
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All factions are good at running robots now! Just pick a faction who's stompy robots look coolest to you and then have lots of fun.
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Jun 29, 2016 08:06
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Khisanth Magus posted:Her scenario presence is a lot lower than it used to be, but 20" purification along with 10" awe and martyrdom are still real dick punches. She may not be a top level Menoth caster any longer, but she is still a pretty strong warcaster. Sounds like kicky monks are a thing now though? AD really feels like it helps them. On the bright side buying a couple is a way lower investment than the cleansers and flamebringers I also want for mk3...
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Jun 29, 2016 08:44
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Khisanth Magus posted:Her scenario presence is a lot lower than it used to be, but 20" purification along with 10" awe and martyrdom are still real dick punches. She may not be a top level Menoth caster any longer, but she is still a pretty strong warcaster. That's good to hear, I was afraid the change to overboosting combined with her desire to get low on HP and near-ish to the front lines would make her nearly impossible to keep alive.
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Jun 29, 2016 08:47
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Looks like my LGS has less than s 1/3 of their order fulfilled. Pretty pissed off store owner. I think I've secured my preorder though.
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Jun 29, 2016 09:34
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| # ? May 5, 2024 15:16 |
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Just noticed conflict chamber has permalinks for lists - pretty sweet to just be able to do http://conflictchamber.com/#b21beM0m0g0X0X3838 when talking about lists.
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Jun 29, 2016 10:31
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