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Arglebargle III posted:
Notice his large red custom title.
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Mar 17, 2012 00:16
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Do you by any chance work for the Chinese government in some capacity? Because drat. I understand the rumor mill can cause trouble but are you really serious about eliminating anonymous speech on the internet? That would be (has been) considered an extreme breach of privacy on a video game forum in the U.S. much less the entire internet.
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Farecoal posted:Notice his large red custom title. Pro-PRC Laowai as his username really should have told you all you need to know. The dude personally is really cool and will tell you all you need to know about the realities of living in China as a foreigner... but politically he takes all of his cues from the shittiest parts of Chinese politics. Harmful rumors are a larger problem than a government stranglehold on information, the CIA is the main reason Tibet isn't a harmonious part of the motherland, etc. mei banfa.
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Mar 17, 2012 01:30
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:Pro-PRC Laowai as his username really should have told you all you need to know. The dude personally is really cool and will tell you all you need to know about the realities of living in China as a foreigner... but politically he takes all of his cues from the shittiest parts of Chinese politics. Harmful rumors are a larger problem than a government stranglehold on information, the CIA is the main reason Tibet isn't a harmonious part of the motherland, etc. Honestly though, what most Americans believe about China is equally as ridiculous, only at the other end of the spectrum.
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Mar 17, 2012 04:04
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Pro-PRC Laowai is what happens when you integrate too well and end up with the political opinions of a shaokao vendor or a middle-aged cab driver.
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Mar 17, 2012 07:53
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I've been listening to the Sinica podcast (and popup Chinese, they have a lot of really useful vocab and colloquial sentence patterns) and the episode about the Tianjin chemical plant really drove home how government lies and censorship have driven people to the rumor mill for their information. Specifically, CCTV advertised an investigative report on the chemical plant and safety in relation to an approaching storm, and then suddenly the whole segment was pulled before it could be aired. Naturally people were alarmed that a CCTV (government news) report on safety issues had been yanked, and the rumor mill went crazy. There were even people reporting that the entire city of Tianjin - millions of people if you don't know - would be killed in minutes if the storm hit the plant. This is not true, but the government news organ had nothing to say because their report on the subject had been pulled. I think this is a fantastic example of how the government has poisoned the well of the traditional media. People simply don't believe it, and are conditioned to believe the absolute worst. It's sort of like how this forum tends to view press reports from Goldman Sachs or the IDF - whenever they say something we tend to assume the opposite is true. It's this way for everything the Chinese public hears from the official media, especially about environmental and safety issues. Blaming Weibo or foreign agitators for the people's alarm at even the slightest hint of a coverup is completely misunderstanding. Maybe willfully misunderstanding the situation. I have to say again French Lies is absolutely right, Sinica is a pro-click.
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Mar 18, 2012 08:10
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french lies posted:Pro-PRC Laowai is what happens when you integrate too well and end up with the political opinions of a shaokao vendor or a middle-aged cab driver. But yeah, been listening to Sinica, it's quite nice. They had an old one about Soft Power and the media, quite interesting to hear about it. Also finished "The Search for Modern China", gonna go read "When China Rules the World". I dunno if this is the place to ask though, but what's up with the "Confucius Foundation", is it an international org or what? They're mostly in charge of the Chinese classes in my Uni and they're good people, but is it a bigger thing? What is the purpose of it?
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Mar 18, 2012 16:36
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Deceitful Penguin posted:I dunno if this is the place to ask though, but what's up with the "Confucius Foundation", is it an international org or what? They're mostly in charge of the Chinese classes in my Uni and they're good people, but is it a bigger thing? What is the purpose of it? Is there a Confucius Foundation? I assume you're talking about the Confucius Institute. It is not an international organization, it is a Chinese government-controlled organization, intended to be a soft-power tool. Most schools that have them seem to agree that despite their affiliation they are not exerting undue pressure over aspects of Chinese studies that they don't like in those schools, but you can bet that their materials are going to follow the government line. Not, of course, that early non-CI Chinese classes are or should be particularly edgy and political. Fiendish_Ghoul fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 18, 2012 |
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Mar 18, 2012 17:41
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Fiendish_Ghoul posted:Is there a Confucius Foundation? I assume you're talking about the Confucius Institute. It is not an international organization, it is a Chinese government-controlled organization, intended to be a soft-power tool. Most schools that have them seem to agree that despite their affiliation they are not exerting undue pressure over aspects of Chinese studies that they don't like in those schools, but you can bet that their materials are going to follow the government line. Not, of course, that early non-CI Chinese classes are or should be particularly edgy and political. I was just curious because like you said, they did mention getting some financial support from China and seeing as their members form the entirety of the Chinese faculty it does mean that they pretty much decide what we do and do not learn. Dude in charge is an old Philosophy grad like me, so I've always liked him and some of the guest lectures and class discussions have been quite critical and they have, as far as I can tell, a hell of a lot of leeway to do whatever. (Unlike the Japanese department, for instance, which regularly has people from the embassy check out classes and goes over our finances every year. Funny that, really).
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Mar 18, 2012 21:08
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Pretty good article about the recent events in Chongqing. http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/mar/19/chinas-falling-star-bo-xilai/
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Mar 20, 2012 09:01
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Xandu posted:Pretty good article about the recent events in Chongqing. The writer also mentions Wen Jiabao's comments about Bo Xilai's populism and the parallels to the Cultural Revolution. For anyone in the PRC, how hard is the official Chinese media pushing this angle? I've had more than a few mainland friends paraphrase Wen's comments to me when I asked about Bo being sacked, so I would assume they're a significant part of the official narrative right now.
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Mar 20, 2012 17:37
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french lies posted:That's a good article, thanks for sharing. My best understanding of this entire situation is: Background: Bo Xilai is the son of Bo Yibo, one of those gods of the revolution and his gimmick over the years became pushing nostalgia with red songs, focusing on more equal growth and a crack down on corruption. Wang Lijun was Bo's attack dog to go after corruption. In Tieling, which WLJ spent some time, there was a large corruption bust and probably some dirt on WLJ as well. Overall, the sweeping out of the corruption in Chongqing was a great thing and BXL's policies were actually fairly good. In no particular order, a thing happened. WLJ had stopped being all that useful to BXL. BXL's son over in London got spotted living large and it attracted some unwanted attention. WLJ investigated BXL and dug up a bunch of dirt regarding finances (funneling tons of illicit cash overseas) BXL stripped WLJ of basically all his powers and I'd guess dug into the Tieling dirt. WLJ, realizing he was basically hosed ran off to the consulate to ensure that Beijing would be the ones to arrest him. WLJ spilled the dirt, BXL got hosed because enough people didn't like him. Wen Jiabao makes the announcement of the sacking of BXL giving some derisive comments referring to the red songs, which is what most Chinese know him for apart from the corruption raids. The powers that be in China really don't want a Mao revival, so it was pretty decent cover. BXL was a whisper candidate for a high power position, and this was a great opportunity to sack him for causing all this weirdness. WLJ is also pretty hosed, but I'd guess that the government will find a position for him somewhere to lay low. Don't expect him to rise to anything above it however. As far as stepping on toes in Chongqing. Something important to understand about the power politics here is that everyone is corrupt to some degree and has a few skeletons in the closet. It's like doing your first whack for the Mafia to get in. If you don't have some dirt on you, no one is going to play ball. The flip side to all this is that those who manage to ostracize themselves and step on too many toes behind the scenes get left to dangle in the wind when it blows. The incoming Xi Jinping seems to be one of the few rare politicians who have managed to rise without much corruption or pissing off everyone along the way. This should ensure a very strong government as few if any will be able to hold any leverage behind the scenes. Why don't they turn on everyone when they get sold down river? Family for the most part. Family generally gets left out of it when they shut up and take their punishment.
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Mar 21, 2012 01:32
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Here's an interesting article about Bo from a former Chongqing resident, where she first focuses on the economic numbers: http://insideoutchina.blogspot.com/2012/03/bo-xilais-chongqing-model.html quote:On Bo Xilai's "Chongqing Model" I also thought this was interesting: quote:The last curious thing I want to mention here is this: on March 8th, during the National People's Congress (NPC) in Beijing, Bo Xilai gave a press conference that attracted a big crowd of journalists; lots of questions were asked and answered, but no one brought up the disappearance of a Chongqing delegation member, Zhang Mingyu. Zhang was taken by force from his Beijing residence by Chongqing police, believed to have been sent by Bo Xilai. Zhang's lawyer tried to reach out to media and netizens through microblogs. I saw reports of Zhang’s disappearance on March 7th and tweeted about it with a bit of shock – this was happening during the NPC, which is supposed to be China's highest legislative meeting. Would anybody inquire about a violation of the basic rights of its own delegates?
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Mar 21, 2012 05:05
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This is all according to Sinica, but apparently Bo has a bit of a history of thuggishness. Apparently the incident with the Chongqing police in Beijing wasn't the first time that Bo's detractors have had mysterious things happen to them, it's just the time he was dumb enough to try it within 20 miles of Zhongnan Hai. Sinica also believes that Bo's performance in Chongqing wasn't really what the leadership was expecting, since it differs pretty strongly from what he did during his tenure in Tianjin. Apparently Bo in Chongqing is in bed (to an unusual degree) with the state-owned industries there. In a city that big with that many economic problems and organized crime who knows what the web of relationships between the state, industry, and mafia is. Chongqing sounds like a real bastard to govern in any way without getting your hands dirty what with the decaying heavy industry fiefdoms, entrenched mafia, and utterly massive land area.
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Mar 21, 2012 09:31
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More Bo Xilai news! Apparently, some people now think the ouster was part of a political coup.Foreign Policy posted:Mainland media sites have begun to strongly censor discussion of Bo Xilai and entirely unsubstantiated rumors of gunfire in downtown Beijing (an extremely rare occurance in Beijing). Chinese websites hosted overseas, free from censorship, offer a host of unsupported, un-provable commentary on what might have happened in the halls of power. Bannedbook.org, which provides free downloads of "illegal" Chinese books, posted a long explanation of tremors in the palace of Zhongnanhai, sourced to a "person with access to high level information in Beijing," of a power struggle between President Hu Jintao, who controls the military, and Zhou, who controls China's formidable domestic security apparatus. The Epoch Times, a news site affiliated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement (which banned in China), has published extensively in English and Chinese about the coup. Kong Qingdong said a thing. Apparently he is now barred from teaching at Beida, and his program has been suspended. Radio France International posted:(my translation) Xinhua reports that after Bo Xilai was forced to resign, Peking University professor Kong Qingdong stated that this was a “Counter-Revolutionary Coup” during the March 15 showing of his program “Kong Qingdong Has Something to Say” on V1. Kong also said this move “hurt the feelings of hundreds of millions of Chinese”, and claimed that China “is bound to sink into the kind of Cultural Revolution chaos that Wen Jiabao talked about. Everyone will suffer, it would probably be a huge disaster.” Hu Xijin, the editor of hardline nationalist rag Global Times, issued a response to Mitt Romney's recent comments about China. He is uncharacteristically civil, and pretty much just states the obvious. Hu Xijin posted:As for the U.S.-China row over things like rare earths, the exchange rate, and even human rights, all these conflicts have been very specific, and they haven't capsized the whole relationship. We believe the person whom the Americans elect to enter the White House will, at the very least, have rational thoughts. Romney won't make the mistake of turning a specific conflict into a showdown with 1.3 billion Chinese people.
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Mar 22, 2012 20:09
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Heh, I was going to ask about the political coup thing, yesterday I think I read something about how China was blowing up with reports of tanks in the streets of Beijing and fighting and poo poo. Wish I had the exact text in front of me but its at home.
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Mar 22, 2012 20:14
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rscott posted:Heh, I was going to ask about the political coup thing, yesterday I think I read something about how China was blowing up with reports of tanks in the streets of Beijing and fighting and poo poo. Wish I had the exact text in front of me but its at home. It's falun gong tripe (they love to try stirring up poo poo) that originated on epoch times. The picture of the "tank" was from back in 2010 and Chang'an gets highly controlled frequently when dignitaries are traveling on it (which was the case). With weird poo poo going on, yea, anything potentially high profile is going to have clamps put on it for a while. Actually, the funny thing is that with the vast vast majority of these rumors, the original sources all seem to be linked with falun gong sites which should be telling enough.
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Mar 22, 2012 21:37
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Falun Gong is just putting its US funding to good use and smearing the CCP any chance it gets (with good reason, I might add). The fact that their propaganda outlets NTDTV and Epoch Times are pushing the coup angle is a surefire sign that it's bullshit. You just know that somewhere along the way, they'll cite some "unnamed sources" and claim that the Politburo was really fighting over who gets the biggest cut of its countrywide FLG organ harvesting operations. They're good for entertainment, I'll give them that.
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Mar 22, 2012 22:50
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So...is China Communist? I'm sorry I know its probably somewhere in the OP but I read it and its just so "meaty". How exactly is China defined? Communist? State Capitalist? Hybrid? Every Chinese person I asked says something different.
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Mar 23, 2012 02:34
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punk rebel ecks posted:So...is China Communist? Largely state capitalist with an increasing number of 'free market' experiments known as Special Economic Zones. Hong Kong (which is a different story due to its history and British management) is probably the most laissez-faire place in history. Communism was abandoned in 1979, and any remnant of Communist support is, ironically, frowned upon by the Communist Party. Bo Xilai tried to resurrect some Maoist nostalgia and was sacked, and the fact that he was also too charismatic and too good at weeding out corruption didn't help either. There is a absurdly small possibility that the Communist Party are still actual communists, but just feel that China has not gone through the necessary (according to Marx) stages of development/industrialisation as of yet, and will go full communist again in 30 years. But there's a 0.00001% chance of that happening. So, what do you guys think about Chinese interests (oil/mineral) around the Philippines, and South China Sea? Apparently ROK and Vietnam don't feel very well about it at all, and have been sending military advisers between themselves. zero alpha fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Mar 23, 2012 |
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Mar 23, 2012 03:06
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zero alpha posted:Largely state capitalist with an increasing number of 'free market' experiments known as Special Economic Zones. Hong Kong (which is a different story due to its history and British management) is probably the most laissez-faire place in history. Ah. So State-Capitalist. And yeah I watched a video on Hong Kong's business operation. To have a business you literally just sign a piece of paper and BAM you have a business! That was in 1999 though.
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Mar 23, 2012 04:44
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More rumors! No coup, but the likelihood of very strong tensions within the party is high. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the coming weeks.LA Times posted:
Wow, the Chinese government does not want people talking about Bo Xilai. Netizens are now resorting to noodle brands and children's shows characters as code words to discuss the Bo Xilai ouster. The Guardian posted:With facts in short supply since leadership contender Bo Xilai was dismissed as party chief of Chongqing last week, the online rumour mill has been in overdrive – fuelled by the opaque nature of Chinese politics and the knowledge that a power transition is fast approaching. On the topic of Hong Kong, they are holding an election! Yay! Oh wait, it's just a bunch of rich assholes picking from a pre-screened selection of candidates. Apparently, this leads to trouble when one of them pretends to give a poo poo about the poor. HK's elite are now in open conflict with Zhongnanhai. Wall Street Journal posted:The race for Hong Kong's top political post that will reach the finish line Sunday is the liveliest the city has ever seen, and one last surprise could be in store: no winner.
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Mar 23, 2012 08:39
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Any chance the 'New Left' figures could gain power in the future, or will they be purged completely in favor of technocratic/fascist politicians?
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Mar 23, 2012 08:51
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zero alpha posted:Any chance the 'New Left' figures could gain power in the future, or will they be purged completely in favor of technocratic/fascist politicians? I find it interesting that the "New Left" such as Bo Xilai are popular with the common folks. It would be interesting how figures like Bo Xilai can use the support of the masses to counter the power of those who favor the status quo.
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Mar 23, 2012 10:43
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The guy who took Bo's place, Zhang De Jiang, has a degree in Economics from Kim Il Sung University.
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Mar 23, 2012 11:03
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zero alpha posted:Largely state capitalist with an increasing number of 'free market' experiments known as Special Economic Zones. Hong Kong (which is a different story due to its history and British management) is probably the most laissez-faire place in history. Bo didn't weed out corruption, it was more like a mobster taking over a region and getting rip of the old small timer gangsters. I have been hearing ridiculous amount of corruption wealth the Bo family has amassed. Something over 1 billion USD...probably has funneled oversea... Bo would not lost his job so soon and so publicly if Wang didn't gave up some major dirt on him. Wang walked into the US consulate because it was only way to save his live. He was able to have an "accident" very soon.
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Mar 23, 2012 12:44
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french lies posted:More rumors! No coup, but the likelihood of very strong tensions within the party is high. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the coming weeks. This is my favorite of the part of following it on the Chinese forums. Take Wen Jiabao for example, he was at first referred to as "When" (sound like Wen), "Best Actor" (because he has been seen crying for the earthquake and other disasters). But those are becoming too obvious to the censorship. So the new nicknames are "baobao" (for this first name), and then "Teletubbie" (because Teletubbies are called "Antenna Babies" in Chinese.) Now it is just "Antenna". He is the one I am rooting for, he has been publicly stating a few time there need to be political reform in order to sustain the grow of China. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Mar 23, 2012 |
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Mar 23, 2012 12:54
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So, does anyone disagree that China is an imperialist power? It seems their influence is overshadowing even that of the US in Africa right now, and that's not new, either -- they were giving arms and money to Mobutu back in the early days. I'm curious to see how ASEAN will react and if they'll form an explicit military alliance to counter China.
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Mar 24, 2012 08:11
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zero alpha posted:So, does anyone disagree that China is an imperialist power? It seems their influence is overshadowing even that of the US in Africa right now, and that's not new, either -- they were giving arms and money to Mobutu back in the early days. I think china can be every bit as dirty as the western powers when the time comes, there's a famous quote by Ho Chi Minh Saying "I'd Rather Smell French poo poo for forty years than eat chinese poo poo for a thousand" and there's a lot of truth to that statement. It's foolish to assume that any power will be more imperialistically benevolent when it's their turn to be able to treat others with impunity. and I'd encourage every member of ASEAN to do whatever is in their power to keep china at arms length from them. not that allying with the west is any better, but Indonesia-Malaysia have the population,underlying infrastructure and the potential to be real naval and military powers if they just put their minds and money into it, add in Vietnam's great military experience and I think you've got a force that could keep china at bay for the foreseeable future.
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Mar 24, 2012 08:40
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Man, I was just doing some reading and found out that China supported Pinoche, Angolan Nationalists, the Shah, and so on. With all that, it's surprising that China and the USA aren't best friends. I guess I'll chalk it up to sibling rivalry.
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Mar 24, 2012 08:45
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zero alpha posted:So, does anyone disagree that China is an imperialist power? It seems their influence is overshadowing even that of the US in Africa right now, and that's not new, either -- they were giving arms and money to Mobutu back in the early days. China as an imperialist power is laughable right now. China's influence in Africa is no stronger than influence of Western governments and private companies in Africa. The only reason why the Western media focuses on Chinese influence in Africa is that China is willing to go to risky parts of Africa to do business because it is much easier to enter into countries which have already not been monopolized by Western interests. China has no overseas military bases like that of Western imperialist powers such as the US and France. I also don't see how you can equate giving arms to a dictator as a form of imperialism. If you mean China as an imperialist power within its own borders, then yes, it has successfully colonized Inner-Mongolia and is on its way to colonize Tibet and Xinjiang.
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Mar 24, 2012 10:13
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New Sinica!  Sinica posted:If you smell anything burning, it's likely your Internet cable melting from the heat of all these rumors. Which is why at Sinica we turn our unforgiving gaze this week at unsubstantiated press foreign and domestic, focusing first on reports of heightened police security in Beijing, midnight tank appearances, gunshots near the square, luxury car crashes, and even whispers of a coup d'etat. And more internationally, we can't help but discuss This American Life's recent retraction of a China-related story that was heavily fabricated: L'affaire Daisey. China is ending the practice of harvesting organ from death-row prisoners. Sounds good, but it may cause problems with the supply. Voluntary donations are extremely rare in China, as Chinese tradition requires the body to be kept intact after death. Wall Street Journal posted:China officials plan to phase out organ harvesting of death-row inmates, a move to overhaul a transplant system that has for years relied on prisoners and organ traffickers to serve those in need of transplants. Life continues to suck for Tibetans in post-Harmonious Society China. If only their outlook was more ... scientific! Tom Lasseter posted:Although he was speaking in a teahouse with no obvious security presence, the monk on Wednesday said that he had to be careful. Lawyers now have to swear fealty to the CCP. How's that legal system working out for you, Pro-PRC Laowai? Voice of America posted:China's Justice Ministry has for the first time ordered lawyers to take a loyalty oath to the Communist Party, in a move that is raising the ire of human rights lawyers who defend critics of the authoritarian Beijing government. Some more links:
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Mar 24, 2012 10:28
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Ronald Spiers posted:I also don't see how you can equate giving arms to a dictator as a form of imperialism. Really?
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Mar 24, 2012 10:29
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punk rebel ecks posted:Ah. So State-Capitalist. The economic system yes; I like the moniker "Technocratic Authoritarianism" for the political system.
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Mar 24, 2012 10:57
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Arglebargle III posted:The economic system yes; I like the moniker "Technocratic Authoritarianism" for the political system. Oh god, the Politburo are all cyborgs? 
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Mar 24, 2012 21:45
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Ronald Spiers posted:China has no overseas military bases like that of Western imperialist powers such as the US and France. I also don't see how you can equate giving arms to a dictator as a form of imperialism. I've kind of completely fallen off the map on what military options the country realistically has.
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Mar 24, 2012 21:57
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Xandu posted:Really? How many countries has the US gave arms to that later used those same arms to wage war against the US? Sure, maybe it exerts some influence, but it's nowhere near something like having active military bases in foreign countries. You can't equate what is essentially financial aid to imperialism. We give aid to North Korea and they spend most of that on weapons or to feed their own military, how's that imperial puppet working out for us? Hobohemian fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Mar 24, 2012 |
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Mar 24, 2012 22:04
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Farecoal posted:Oh god, the Politburo are all cyborgs? Worse: they're engineers.
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Mar 25, 2012 00:37
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Hobohemian posted:How many countries has the US gave arms to that later used those same arms to wage war against the US? Sure, maybe it exerts some influence, but it's nowhere near something like having active military bases in foreign countries. You can't equate what is essentially financial aid to imperialism. We give aid to North Korea and they spend most of that on weapons or to feed their own military, how's that imperial puppet working out for us? What does that have to do with whether China is imperialist or not? Anybody want to give me some background on why China attacked Vietnam in 1979, and tell me if there was more to it than Marxist-Leninism vs. Maoism? This is a de-rail, but I'm wondering what role if any the US had in putting Pol Pot in power/allowing him to stay longer than he would have otherwise. zero alpha fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Mar 25, 2012 |
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Mar 25, 2012 01:11
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zero alpha posted:
They tried to keep him from gaining power, by bombing the poo poo out of Cambodia during the Vietnam War and killing roughly 400,000 civilians. Why would they support someone they considered a communist?
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Mar 25, 2012 01:35
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Farecoal posted:They tried to keep him from gaining power, by bombing the poo poo out of Cambodia during the Vietnam War and killing roughly 400,000 civilians. Why would they support someone they considered a communist? Because he and China were opposing and sabotaging USSR aligned movements after the Sino-Soviet split? Not sure, I'm just trying to remember if something weird went down with the USA and Prince Sihanuk or whomever that inadvertently destroyed the resistance to the Khmer Rouge. Some NPR story from a long time ago I think, but I could be mixed up.
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Mar 25, 2012 01:41
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