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Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
I bet you're a nazi buddhist like the Dalai Lama.

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Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe

Pro-PRC Laowai posted:

Convenient leverage and causing domestic issues which they fully are in favor of.


Timing's a little weird then. You'd think they'd have him make a break for it after the highly delicate talks that our secretary of state is holding.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
When I was studying abroad in China one of my buddies had a regular jogging route he'd hit every morning. One day a gate was open that had never been open before, so he figured 'what the hell' and detoured down it. Immediately tackled by like five soldiers cause he'd wandered into an unmarked military base or some poo poo. Of course, since he's jogging, he has no passport, no money, etc. They question him for about an hour before they realize he's harmless and kick him over to the local police, who call our teacher and get her to come over with his passport and so forth.

He made friends with all the cops while waiting in detention and went out drinking with them a few times.

Also two South Korean girls in the same program were doing a shitton of cocaine and got deported. Hooray for Chinese Justice!

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
If I remember the one class I took on this correctly, the official party line is something along the lines of "So the communist revolution happened, which is good, but unfortunately too early in our historical march to really give everyone the benefits of full state control. So we're gonna go capitalist and build up infrastructure and fun things and then we'll switch over to communism once everyone has enough. Also we're not giving up control because then the capitalists would get elected and just perpetuate that forever."

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
wait these forums are blocked on the mainland right? don't we have forum rules against people breaking laws? we need to immediately ban anyone who says they're posting from China.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
poo poo last time I was in China I needed to use a VPN to get on here, things have changed. I'm glad to know the communist party has decided these forums are a worthy source of knowledge.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe

Plastic_Gargoyle posted:

You're assuming that they haven't been lying their asses off about their numbers.

Remember all those stories the media was pushing back in Feb-April of 2020 about how China was underreporting the number of deaths and how you could totally tell because of excess crematorium demand etc?

Notice how you don't see any of those stories right now even though everyone would obviously love to push that narrative?

I would absolutely buy that the numbers might be massaged a little at the local level by some dumbass but if covid was anywhere near as out of control as it is in the united states there is legitimately no way that even the most brutal dictatorship on earth could cover it up.

Like, the US healthcare system is about to collapse for the third time, imagine how many dead people there would be if we had 3 times the population and even less rural infrastructure. There's just no way they could mask that.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
I mean the CEO of rayethon said there's no way they can decouple from China so that seems to solve the entire debate right there, they win.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe

Nenonen posted:

Ah yes. It doesn't matter if muslims are being sent to re-education camps as long as the trains taking them there run on time.

In every single us election I have been told to ignore atrocities committed by my own government because the other party would be worse. The democratically elected president is sending billions of dollars to help another democratically elected government commit a genocide right now, and also is continuing to be lovely about every issue I care about. If you're from the US and vote for pretty much anybody in power after this you're directly complicit in something unambiguously worse than the worst case scenarios about xinjiang

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
that article sources zero of its claims and just throws around large numbers seemingly at random, also doing its best to conflate purged meaning fired and purged meaning killed. there's no named author and no actual reporting.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe

quote:

Another ominous sign is the untimely death of Li Keqiang, China’s recently retired prime minister — No. 2 in the Communist hierarchy — who supposedly died of a heart attack in a swimming pool in Shanghai in late October, despite enjoying some of the world’s best medical care. Following his death, Xi ordered public mourning for his former rival be heavily curtailed.

In the minds of many in China, “heart attack in a swimming pool” has the same connotation that “falling out of a window” does for Russian apparatchiks who anger or offend Vladimir Putin.

Cool! Who says that? Any interviews with people who actually think this, any comments?

quote:

Since his reign began in 2012, Xi Jinping’s endless purges have removed millions of officials — from top-ranked Communist Party “tigers” down to lowly bureaucratic “flies,” to use Xi’s evocative terminology.

Where'd that millions number come from?

quote:

With such a febrile atmosphere in the celestial capital of Beijing, there are fears that an isolated and paranoid Chairman Xi could miscalculate, provoke armed conflict with one of its weaker neighbors or even launch a full-scale invasion of democratic Taiwan in order to distract from his domestic troubles.

Who has these fears? How do we know he's isolated and paranoid? What domestic troubles? Also the "celestial capital" in relation "democratic Taiwan"

quote:

Hundreds of senior officers in the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), as well as thousands of top Party officials, have been arrested, disappeared or “suicided” (driven to commit suicide or killed in circumstances made to look like suicide).
Wow! That's a really bold claim! So how do you know when that's happened? Can you provide any examples? What do you mean by disappeared?

quote:

China’s propaganda system is strongly hinting that the affair and illegitimate American child are the reasons for Qin’s purge. ......According to several people with access to top officials, the real reason for his abrupt disappearance was Qin’s involvement in a much more serious scandal, involving the defense minister and the generals who commanded China’s “rocket force,” which oversees the country’s nuclear weapons program.

Okay, so the guy in charge of the nukes either had a baby with a spy or was involved in something much worse. We don't actually know what happened to him. So far, that seems like the reaction of any state government to finding out the guy in charge of the nukes did some stupid poo poo.

quote:

China’s nuclear weapons program has massively expanded in recent years and, according to people with access to top Chinese officials, Russian Deputy Minister Rudenko’s message to Xi included allegations that Qin and relatives of top rocket force officers had helped pass Chinese nuclear secrets to Western intelligence agencies.

Two of these people claim that Qin died, either from suicide or torture, in late July in the military hospital in Beijing that treats China’s top leaders.
Oh so people with access to China's top officials say that the head nuke guy was passing state secrets. Some of them say he died/was killed. drat in this febrile atmosphere we gotta respect these people with access to top officials in the celestial court for providing us with this information.

quote:

Given the opacity of the Chinese system, it is impossible to confirm these accounts definitively and the Chinese government does not comment on the inner workings of the Communist Party.

Senior Western intelligence officials declined to comment or discuss the matter when asked about the purges in China.

But the sensational nature of the claims themselves make clear the feverish paranoia permeating Beijing.

Whether by accident or design, that mood was exacerbated over the summer when Director of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency Bill Burns said the CIA had “made progress” rebuilding its network within China and had a “strong human intelligence capability” in the country. That paranoia extends into all parts of the bureaucracy and economy and seems to have tarnished anyone seen as too Westernized or too close to “hostile Western forces.”
So we have no way to find out if any of this is true, but it could be true, and we're gonna talk about feverish paranoia right before mentioning that the CIA openly said they were building a network in China. Which would mean it wasn't paranoia?

quote:

An associate of this official said he was currently being investigated for being “too close to America” and “possibly a spy.”

This seems to be the inevitable fate of anyone who engages too eagerly with foreigners and should serve as a warning to those who still believe China is open for business with the West.

Oh so they're doing the exact same thing the US research system is doing to anyone vaguely affiliated with China right now and the end of the article is a blatant and open "don't trust those goddamn Chinese"

I don't know what's happening but neither does whoever wrote this article and they have an extremely obvious axe to grind.

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Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
clear foul tasting liquor, love of dumplings, my god it does work

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