China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

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Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

GlassEye-Boy posted:

Glib, generalizations aside, in all reality you'll have more problems with the cops in the US than in China on a every day basis. It's only when things get serious that the troubles with the system pop up.

As long as you don't do something stupid(carry illegal drugs, murder someone, molest children, support Tibet independence openly, etc.), you, as a foreigner will be fine. In fact, the Chinese justice system values the life of a foreigner more than the Chinese citizen.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2012 12:12

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 08:07

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Hong XiuQuan posted:

I remember the first time I went to China I expected the streets of Beijing to be rammed with a police presence. Instead there appeared to be fewer uniformed officers on the streets than in London and military personal were concentrated on key locations, just as in London.

There will be a good amount of non-uniformed cops in densely crowded areas where tourists will be. The Tiananmen Square area is rife with them, ready at a moment's notice to rectify anything that will cause harm to the harmonious tranquility in the People's Republic.

If one wants to seek somewhere that resembles martial law, I suggest Tibet or Xinjiang. Here is a video of an insidious Western reporter recording the brave PRC internal security personnel ensuring peace and harmony.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2012 12:56

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

rscott posted:

Considering the level of repression in China when it comes to things like these, if enough of a movement was started to unionize, why not go the extra bit and go full on collective ownership? It seems like to me the only way to avoid the sweatshop stage completely is to have workers own the means of production.

The workers did achieve ownership of the means of production during the Mao era. The workers kicked out managers and experts, had the laborers run things. Of course production fell and the laborers did fuzzy accounting in claiming production boosts. It was a great time in China.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2012 05:59

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

french lies posted:

Seriously, don't continue this derail. Either take it to another thread or stop.

I've started listening to back episodes of Sinica, which I really recommend if you're into China news. In the one I'm listening to now, they went over the Taiwan elections, and the suzhi argument for why democracy won't work in China.

If you don't know what this is, it's a common belief among urban Chinese who essentially argue that rural Chinese would screw things up if elections ever were held. This is because the sum of their moral, spiritual and intellectual quality, otherwise known as suzhi, is too low to make informed decisions.

If you live in China, I'm sure you've heard some version of this argument before. And personally, I've remained skeptical that the success of Taiwan can scale to match the needs of the PRC. But hearing the example of Indonesia mentioned in the podcast, I'm starting to reassess my opinions.

Do you guys have any input on this? Do you think democracy is feasible in China, considering the scope and size of the country?

I would imagine India being a good example that a largely poor and populous nation can sustain a democratic government without totally imploding.

I wonder how urban Chinese can justify that the rural-class is not to be trusted with democracy when it was on the backs of the peasants that ultimately brought the CCP to power.

And also limited democracy is occurring currently in a number of villages and townships. Again to poke holes in urban Chinese arrogance toward their rural comrades, why does the central government trust rural areas with elections whereas they bar that in urban areas? Just like how economic reforms sprang from the countryside, I hope the experimentation of voting in the countryside will eventually spread to the rest of the nation. It certainly wasn't the "enlightened" urban class that started market and incentive driven production.

I've met my fair share of urban Chinese and their opinions of their rural compatriots. It is pretty jarring. There is the capacity to disseminate information to the masses far more faster with further reach than any other time in human history. Radio, cell phones, televisions (and less so for the internet) is ubiquitous in China now. Ignorance can be cured with communication technology, arrogance however is far more difficult to solve.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2012 06:32

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

menino posted:

I think it's useful to compare democratic institutions in the surrounding countries, which China is mostly using for its models.

Japan has basically been a functional one party state for almost as long as China has had the PRC in place, whereas democracy in Korea has basically segregated itself along one major issue: relations with North Korea. Besides this, there seems to be a great deal of agreement on the major issues, with younger voters being unsurprisingly somewhat more favorable towards social welfare spending on unemployment and older voters favoring more retirement insurance. I read a lecture on this from Sogang University, but I can't find it just now.

I'm not sure if this will be the case for China, as it has a much more hetergenous population than Korea, but it would be interesting to see if more democracy would see a return to the older regional loyalties and identifications, while relying mostly on FP stances to delineate the major divisions among political factions shoudl there be democracy. For this reason, China's leadership is very leery of prospect of incorporating more of public opinion, given that most public opinion seems to align most closely with the opinions of the hawks in the government (Yan Xuetong, for example).

It seems that China has tried to walk a very fine line since Tian'anmen with managing nationalism and economic growth as replacement ideologies, but guys like Bo Xilai are trying to lead a resurgence in the old Mao-era slogans and stances. It will be interesting to see how the new regime will try to incorporate these new princelings and pressure to acknowledge opinions they receive from croud sourcing Weibo and other message boards.

I disagree on your assessment that there is a wide consensus among Koreans over all issues except for the North Korea question. Actually, I think it is very disingenuous. Yes, the conservative Grand National Party favors a hard stance against North Korea as opposed to the liberal Democratic United Party which favors continued dialogue and further implementation of the "sunshine" policy toward the North. Also, I find your assessment that Korea is more homogeneous than China misleading. Yes, China has a number of "nationalities" or "ethnicities" as well as a variety of different and distinct regional cultures within the Han "nationality" itself. Korea however can easily be divided within regional and socioeconomic lines on a geographic map. The conservatives in Korea have a firm grip on the Seoul area as well as in the southeast(the Korean industrial heartland), whereas the liberals are favored in the less developed southwest(whose native residents are typically discriminated against by the rest of Korea, it actually resembles the same kind of racial and ethnic discrimination found in other countries) as well as the northeast(where Koreans stereotypically describe as the "countryside"). If anything, Korean politics kind of resembles American politics. The conservative Grand National Party's platform favors free-trade and neo-liberal ideology, many of its members publicly express their Christian faith, favors a strong military to confront N. Korea, and is very pro-business(the current president Lee Myung-bak was former CEO of Hyundai Engineering and Construction). The Democratic United Party tries to paint itself as the opposite of the Grand National Party, by being pro-labor and more friendly with the North. There is division in "homogeneous" Korea, which is often ignored by outsiders who are only familiar with Korea superficially.

You touch on whether democracy in China would "return to the older regional loyalties and identifications." What past time period are you referring to? Throughout Chinese history, the Chinese government has regularly assigned regional government officials to places that they have no particular special ties to, in order to counter favoritism and corruption. That is why you see in the resumes of Chinese officials such as Hu Jintao from Jiangsu assigned to Guizhou and Tibet, and Xi Jinping from Beijing assigned to Fujian and Shanghai. And I don't see how "older regional loyalties and identifications" would be a bad thing considering most governors and congressmen in the United States usually hail from the same state they were from originally or lived for a long time. As for the common people, of course the common folks identify with their regional roots. Is that a threat to the integrity of the Chinese state? I really doubt it. Besides the troubled regions of Tibet and Xinjiang, there is no threat toward the integrity of the Chinese state with a province threatening to breakaway because it somehow identifies its regional identity more strongly than its national identity, Scottish they are not. I also question your basis that the Chinese public favor a foreign policy that adheres to the wishes of hawks. Unscientifically, most laobaixing I have met aren't hawkish at all. However, the internet can be a very skewed barometer of the "people's will."

And finally. I wonder how long Bo Xilai will survive considering the Wang Lijun incident.

Ronald Spiers fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Feb 21, 2012

# ¿ Feb 21, 2012 10:12

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Electro-Boogie Jack posted:

The suzhi argument is one step removed from outright racism, at the very most. Honestly, the idea that Chinese people are somehow inherently unable to deal with democracy, due to some unspecified mix of nature and race and culture, would sound racist as hell coming from a foreigner... for good reason!

edit: crap, hadnt refreshed this page since this morning as it turns out.

Taiwan (and to a limited extent, Hong Kong) is possibly the greatest foil for China to look at in terms of a model for democracy. Heck, China could even look at Singapore and their magical racial harmony under a pseudo-democratic pseudo-authoritarian state. And all the mentioned governments have majority Chinese populations, and I would argue they are more culturally Chinese than the Chinese!

# ¿ Feb 22, 2012 03:30

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Al-Saqr posted:

Ok, starting with this one since they are the most accepted group out of them, are there any Hui individuals who have reached any form of prominence or affluence in china today?

For example, are there any who rank high in the communist party or military are most of them appointed as a quota to give an air of minority representation?

Have any of them reached high within societal circles, are any of them national celebrities, acclaimed writers or powerful businessmen? or are they victims of an unofficial discrimination (for example business contracts given to Han Chinese over Hui people, or perhaps a Hui writer is more censored than a Han)?

Do Chinese textbooks and media mention any Muslim contributors to Chinese history (such as the Kansu Braves in the boxer rebellion and the Generals who led the fight against the japanese) or are they swept under the rug?

A simple internet search provides a list of prominent Huis from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people#Prominent_Hui

The CCP has been very friendly with the Hui. Something to do with solidarity with their Muslim brothers within China which can easily translate to better relations with third-world Muslim nations abroad. A united front against the US and Soviet spheres of influence!

Personally, from unscientific surveys, the Han majority that I meet and their views of the Hui are usually "fierce," "violent," "smell like mutton," and "don't eat pork."

# ¿ Feb 23, 2012 23:02

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

In regards to Muslims in China, I recommend reading Familiar Strangers: A History of Muslims in Northwest China by Jonathan N. Lipman. It is a pretty comprehensive history about Muslims in China. Some interesting topics in the book include the Han Kitab which attempts to synthesize Islam with mainstream Confucian Chinese culture as well as the practice of Sufism in areas farther away from the center of Chinese Han culture.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2012 03:51

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Inu posted:

This has got me thinking that we could drastically improve international communications if we all adopted Hanzi. That's right, not only should we not abandon Hanzi in Mandarin, but we should actually adopt them in other languages. The Japanese system gives us some hints for how to deal with languages that have verb endings, etc.

Observe: 我去ent到學校而看aw我y朋友。

"I went to school and saw my friend."

Isn't that beautiful? And think of how much easier it would be to learn a foreign language (the written part, anyway) if they all looked kind of like that?

How do you communicate orally? All modern languages are pronouncing the Chinese characters incorrectly. How does one input it on a computer?

I recommend reading "The Singlish Affair" chapter in The Chinese Language: Fact and Fantasy by John Defrancis

To promote world communication, the world should adopt Korean Han'gŭl. It is the most efficient alphabet in the world. One can learn it in a few hours, and takes a few days to fully grasp it. It takes a native-Mandarin speaker 7-8 years of study to master enough Chinese characters to be considered well-rounded literate person. Chinese writing is the most inefficient modern writing system.

I have studied Chinese for over five years and I feel I am near-native in my ability. I just started studying Korean this past year. Being able to rely on my knowledge of Mandarin pronunciation that I have from Mandarin has really helped me to learn Korean. I have an established set of knowledge (the sounds of the words in Mandarin) that I can easily connect to my new Korean vocabulary. In my personal anecdote, we should all first learn oral Mandarin and then learn Korean and use Han'gŭl script.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2012 00:00

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Inu posted:

I think you may be missing my point, though I'm not quite sure. It doesn't matter if you pronounce the characters differently from language to language. By using the same chinese characters in all languages, you have a visual connection that transcends those languages. 人 will be read "ren2" in Mandarin and "hito" or "jin" in Japanese, but have the same meaning regardless of the pronunciation. Why not use the character also in English and pronounce it "person"?

As things currently are, someone literate in English can, for instance, look at a Spanish newspaper and guess at some of what it means because they use the same alphabet and have some shared vocabulary. However, neither someone literate in Chinese nor in Russian can do that. If we used Hanzi in all languages though, it would enable everyone the world over to guess at the meaning of a sign, or article or whatever, even if they knew none of the language, and even if their language was unrelated to, and shared no vocabulary with, the one they were looking at.

Edit: I just started reading that link. So I'm not the first one with this idea, then? I'm not really surprised. Pretty cool.

The Chinese writing system is not a pictographic writing system. I have never seen a widely used modern writing system that divorces completely its written symbols from its oral language. About 98% of Chinese characters have roughly two graphic elements, one that provides a semantic clue, the other element provides a pronunciation clue. It will be easy for a native-Mandarin speaker from Singapore or the PRC to remember how to write and pronounce "person/人" and "to know/认." How is a native English speaker going to connect graphically "person" and "to know"? I can come up with literally, thousands of other examples that highlight how Chinese language speakers have an inherent advantage over all other languages in able to learn, retain, and use Chinese characters much more quickly and efficiently.

I suggest you read the whole thing in regards to the "Singlish Affair" and the rest of the book. It pretty much destroys your argument about Chinese character universalism.

Inu posted:

Just to be clear, I'm totally divorcing the characters from their Mandarin pronunciation. There would be no need to learn any spoken Chinese.

An English speaker would learn their language's phonetic system first, in this case, roman letters, and then they would learn Chinese characters and apply them to the language that they already know. Little kids' books would have Chinese characters with the roman-letter pronunciation written our next to the Chinese character to show pronunciation, etc.

This is just how Japanese works, and I'm saying that it could be done with other languages too, and that if it were done, it would improve international literacy in the sense of giving people all over the world a leg-up on languages they haven't studied.

I've probably chosen a bad example with English though since our "phonetic" representation system is so bad that learning that AND learning Chinese does seem like a real pain, but see, that's not the fault of my idea so much as it is of the English language's horrible spelling system, and it's a whole separate issue. Imagine what I'm talking about with a language like Dutch where the spelling is very consistent if that makes it easier to picture.

You are right that there is more work up front. This is not an idea that would make learning to read your native language easier necessarily. It's an idea that would mean that all written languages all over the world would share vocabulary, even if that vocabulary is not pronounced at all the same.

Edit: I realize it's a really pie-in-the-sky idea. Like Esperanto or something. I'll drop it so as not to derail the thread totally.

The idea that you divorce the Chinese characters from any form of pronunciation is laughable. You might as well invent a writing system totally based on pictographs that is more intuitive than the Chinese writing system.

You point out that it is the English language's writing system's fault for being incompatible with Chinese? I really don't understand where you are going with your argument. Written English, even with its faults in having poor correspondence between sound and letters compared to other European languages like Spanish or German, is still far more efficient than any language that uses Chinese characters. Again, I point out there is no such modern writing system that totally divorces itself from the spoken language from the written language.

Japanese is really a poor example for promoting that idea that Chinese characters have a universal appeal for other languages to adopt. Sorry, but the current set of Chinese characters were largely standardized about two-thousand years ago based on a spoken-language that doesn't exist anymore. Even with that obstacle, the spoken modern Chinese languages, Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese still provide hints of the relation between Chinese characters and the way to pronounce them. The only reason why Japan still retains Chinese characters is pride in tradition that was entrenched for centuries because the Japanese had no other writing system to call their own and had to make due with a foreign writing system. The Japanese realized they were importing a whole different language when they adopted Chinese characters, hence they had to adopt Chinese pronunciations of the writing system borrowed.

Oh, and Chinese characters are divorced from modern speech for about two-thousand years, but English writing conventions is only divorced from modern speech for 300-400 years. I think English is still superior in conveying speech with writing than Chinese.

If one wants to promote a universal language, you might as well just choose a random language that is used worldwide already, oh wait its English. The idea that the Chinese writing system can be easily adopted by foreign languages is a myth. Chinese writing is not a universal writing system.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2012 07:54

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Farecoal posted:

Oh. And why would they use that instead of just using traditional characters?

In order to help facilitate teaching the masses the proper way to pronounce characters in Mandarin. Also to aid foreigners in learning how to pronounce modern standard Chinese. Also to help represent Chinese words and names for foreign publications that use the Latin alphabet.

Pinyin can also be used to type Chinese on computers.

A truly revolutionary accomplishment to crush the feudal orthography imposed by previous dynasties of China.

edit:
And also this article about Chinese elections is interesting. Apparently some of these local elections matter enough for politicians to bribe their constituents very much like their Western counterparts.
Campaign 2012 with Chinese Characteristics

Ronald Spiers fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Feb 27, 2012

# ¿ Feb 27, 2012 07:17

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Arglebargle III posted:

Do you by any chance work for the Chinese government in some capacity? Because drat. I understand the rumor mill can cause trouble but are you really serious about eliminating anonymous speech on the internet? That would be (has been) considered an extreme breach of privacy on a video game forum in the U.S. much less the entire internet.

When has anonymity been considered a right? In order to enforce a harmonious society, the government must expose rabble-rousers and charlatans. Internet-users must have accountability and there needs to be recourse for any damage to society when internet-users abuse their rights to express themselves.

Korea for example has taken the right step to stamp-out such rabble-rousers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerva_(Daum_Agora_user)

# ¿ Mar 4, 2012 07:07

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

zero alpha posted:

Any chance the 'New Left' figures could gain power in the future, or will they be purged completely in favor of technocratic/fascist politicians?

I find it interesting that the "New Left" such as Bo Xilai are popular with the common folks. It would be interesting how figures like Bo Xilai can use the support of the masses to counter the power of those who favor the status quo.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2012 10:43

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

zero alpha posted:

So, does anyone disagree that China is an imperialist power? It seems their influence is overshadowing even that of the US in Africa right now, and that's not new, either -- they were giving arms and money to Mobutu back in the early days.

China as an imperialist power is laughable right now. China's influence in Africa is no stronger than influence of Western governments and private companies in Africa. The only reason why the Western media focuses on Chinese influence in Africa is that China is willing to go to risky parts of Africa to do business because it is much easier to enter into countries which have already not been monopolized by Western interests. China has no overseas military bases like that of Western imperialist powers such as the US and France. I also don't see how you can equate giving arms to a dictator as a form of imperialism.

If you mean China as an imperialist power within its own borders, then yes, it has successfully colonized Inner-Mongolia and is on its way to colonize Tibet and Xinjiang.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2012 10:13

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Arglebargle III posted:

I honestly know very little about the Chinese economy beyond what I hear on Sinica, but export taking hard hits isn't difficult to understand. The developed world has hosed itself for the next 10 years with ridiculous macro policy and China's export markets can't escape the drop in demand any more than anyone else can. China's workforce is due to start shrinking next year, I believe, which may sound impossible to people who only know the standard Western narrative about China but is a very real phenomenon that will have serious implications for the Chinese labor and export markets, and for inflation.

You do realize there are markets for China to sell to besides the developed West? China can actually cushion falling demand from developed nations by shifting toward developing and emerging markets, including China itself. I think China will do just fine, it is the West that I worry about.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2012 08:58

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Evil Robot posted:

Maybe I'm missing some context here, but how is it bad as a Chinese national to get dual citizenship as an American? If they choose to return to China, can't they just enter on their Chinese passport and things are fine and dandy? Or does China actively reject dual citizenship?

You can't be a Chinese citizen while holding citizenship for another country, it is against the law.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2012 22:26

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Why have I not heard of this "China Daily Show" earlier? This is probably the most reliable source of news about China.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2012 08:44

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

zero alpha posted:

So is this the beginnings of an Occupy China, or something?

Haha, no. That is silly.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2012 07:36

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Ervin K posted:

How big is social unrest against the government in China? I've seen many news stories of massive protests at various factories across the country, but I also hear about major political apathy amongst most civilians. How much of a grip does the government have?

Are these factories privately owned or government owned? And if they are government owned is it local government or the national government?

# ¿ Apr 13, 2012 18:57

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Fiendish_Ghoul posted:

So, Bo Guagua has surfaced and might get political asylum in the US?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-officials.html

Not sure why we would give him asylum as he is almost undoubtedly complicit in corruption. I don't suppose he would be likely to get a fair trial in China though.

Ugh, I would definitely oppose giving asylum to Guagua. According Guagua's mother, Gu Kailai, everyone gets a fair trial in China. 'She said (in her book titled Winning a Lawsuit in the U.S., China�s system was straightforward and judicious. �We don�t play with words and we adhere to the principle of �based on facts,� � she wrote. �You will be arrested, sentenced and executed as long as we determine that you killed someone.�' Guagua is complicit with crimes against the people, he must be punished. If he doesn't face justice, surely he will be a future threat to China, his whole family are vindictive assholes after all.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2012 00:36

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Fangz posted:

It's probably worth some US political points to oppose the CCP though.

I don't see how giving asylum to a Communist princeling will give anyone points.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2012 13:10

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Fangz posted:

The Chinese want him back, and that's enough. That it's opposing the Chinese would be the important thing. The individual can easily be painted as a heroic dissident or a political victim as needed - if not by the admin, then by his opponents looking for ammunition for claiming Obama is 'soft on China'. Who would be expected to look into the details?

Wow, what an amazingly short-sighted thing to do. There is no way to paint him as a heroic dissident or political victim. Everyone knows he is a playboy who relied on his parents black and soiled money. If anything, he would be a potential threat to the US if he is of anything like his vindictive parents, especially if he is like his Maoist father. None of his classmates mention he had pro-reform and pro-democracy dispositions, in fact his classmates describe him at best a Chinese patriot, at worst a nationalist. It is a known fact before the whole scandal broke-out, he wanted to eventually go back to China and follow in his father's footsteps or make a billion dollars and be an influential player in Chinese governance.

He must face the justice of People's Republic!

Stim0r posted:

Can US intelligence get any info out of granting our dear princeling asylum? If so, then I can see it going through. If not, I see a media frenzy about it if it goes through.

I bet Guagua has absolutely no useful intelligence in regards to national security. As stated previously, all he was was a playboy college student. The US government even refused Wang Lijun, former chief of police of Chongqing.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2012 19:13

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Xandu posted:

That's almost assuredly because he walked into a consulate in the middle of China. It would have been essentially impossible to accept him.

Tell that to Fang Lizhi!

# ¿ Apr 17, 2012 06:00

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Fangz posted:

Dude, we're talking about a mass media that painted the Lord's Resistance Army as a heroic movement for religious tolerance, because Obama was opposed to them. The vast majority of americans haven't heard of Bo Xilai, let alone the bit players. Guagua just needs to make a couple of speeches about a sudden and newfound love of freedom and democracy, and it'll look - or can be made - very politically inconvenient to send him back in an election year where opposition to China is a vote winning issue.

Well according to the NY Times some Republicans are demanding answers for why the US didn't protect Wang Lijun. I guess I thought Americans can go beyond petty politics and think in terms of rational world politics (then again international relations is also a pretty petty business). Republicans wanted to protect a communist thug, a communist princeling joined the Oxford University Conservative Association. White is black. Freedom is slavery. I guess it wouldn't be a stretch to spin Guagua into human rights icon.

Good night folks.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2012 10:11

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Yeah, is there a list of safe Chinese food companies?

Man, I can't believe I'll be in living in China for 2 years.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2012 21:58

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

I just can't believe Chinese people risk execution just to make an extra buck.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2012 05:23

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

TheBuilder posted:

I can't see the US getting involved here for our blind friend. Sweden or Norway would seem more likely as foreign embassy safehavens.

Uh why not? This would be a great PR coup for the US.

Hujia: Chen Guangcheng is at the American embassy in China."

# ¿ Apr 27, 2012 22:06

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Ytlaya posted:

Is it common for public figures to openly brag about their scholarly achievements? I can't imagine any US politician bragging about getting straight A's, even if you ignore anti-intellectualism; it's sort of a social taboo to talk about how elite you are, largely because it's common knowledge that those sorts of accomplishments are mostly limited to people born into privilege (not to mention the fact that being humble is considered a virtue).

Chinese like to brag about their academic achievements, especially the parents but not in terms of bragging about it to the media. Then again there was a lot of pressure on the Bo's by the media to disclose how his son was able to go to all those expensive schools and drive all those expensive cars. Chinese also like to flash their bling too.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2012 04:39

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Modus Operandi posted:

This kid is getting poo poo on for the sins of his father (and mother) though. He's doing better than most over privileged Chinese princelings who don't even bother most of the time. You really can't just fluke your way into a Harvard master's program either.

Are you sure most 2nd generation Chinese princelings are doing worse than Guagua? Xi Jinping's daughter is also in Harvard and has kept a low-profile.

Let us not forget how Guagua was able to get such a life... from the ill-gotten gains of his parents!

# ¿ Apr 28, 2012 05:30

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Modus Operandi posted:

So? You could say that about the vast majority of upper class white kids in ivy leagues in the U.S. He doesn't deserve what he's getting unless he's personally been a twat about it or complicit in some of the crimes.

His parents are enemies to the state, this label should be handed from parents to children unless the child clearly demarcates between him and his parents with public denouncement of the state-enemy parents.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2012 06:58

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Let us not forget the extent of the ill gotten money... money so ill gotten to kill for. Guagua needs to go back to China and give back the money his parents stole from the people.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2012 10:50

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Fangz posted:

My parents are watching an old documentary on Guoguo. He's telling a weepy tale about how he could never get enough to eat while at Harrow.

Not surprising considering how difficult it is to launder money to the UK.

Also the Guardian has a nice article about Chinese feudalism.

Ronald Spiers fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Apr 30, 2012

# ¿ Apr 30, 2012 08:12

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Flopstick posted:

By any chance, can anyone recommend any good books / blogs / documentaries / whatever that go into detail about living and working conditions for employees at Foxconn, treatment of labour disputes by the company and the expansion of export processing zones in mainland China? I ask because This American Life ended up having to retract their story on it, and I want to make sure that any source I use is definitely credible! Any suggestions gratefully received.

The New York Times has been doing some good coverage http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/foxconn_technology/index.html?8qa

So has Marketplace: http://www.marketplace.org/search/node/foxconn

Far more reliable than that fat lying gently caress Mike Daisey.

# ¿ May 2, 2012 08:25

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/02/world/asia/china-clinton-visit/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Sounds like the US threw Chen under the bus... man, both governments suck.

# ¿ May 3, 2012 06:19

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Pro-PRC Laowai posted:

How about a foreign government-backed NGO taking it upon itself to free "terror" suspects and stash them away in foreign embassies?

Wait where are you going with this? Is this how the Chinese people see Chen?

# ¿ May 3, 2012 08:49

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

french lies posted:

Oh and btw, if you guys are wondering where PPL got those numbers and factoids from, they all seem to be from an unsourced forum post. Nothing I personally would trot out as evidence anywhere, but maybe the fifty cents operate with different standards.

Sounds like unfounded rumors that might unbalance the harmonious society! I think we need to imprison PPL and Saob for spreading unfounded rumors and re-educate them!

# ¿ May 3, 2012 09:18

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

He should try another embassy, like Canada's.

# ¿ May 3, 2012 22:04

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

China Expels Al Jazeera Channel

Very sad to hear China has basically banned English language reporters for Al Jazeera. AJ had some really good documentaries and news programs covering China that is rarely covered by mainstream English language media, especially regarding the poorer segments of Chinese society.

# ¿ May 8, 2012 09:57

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

TheBuilder posted:

That reasoning has been used previously with any sort of conflict in the region. The Chinese generally claim that every nation around them was part of their territory historically, and as such, has to bow to them in disputes or rejoin the Han empire.

I love that argument. Might as well say a quarter of the world should belong to Mongolia.

# ¿ May 9, 2012 03:05

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 08:07

Ronald Spiers: Oct 25, 2003; Soldier

Throatwarbler posted:

Every 2 bit hack that gets on TV in America also automatically becomes an official representative of all official positions of the US State department.

CCTV is subordinate to the Chinese government. It is well known CCTV is the mouthpiece of the party-government.

That is not the case with the US.

# ¿ May 9, 2012 04:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

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