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Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

baka kaba posted:

Yeah I don't think you exactly get the UK situation here. Teachers (especially in primary school - that's elementary school to you, required to cover all subjects) have been increasingly expected to teach computer science to kids, and now it's mandated as part of the National Curriculum. There's almost no actual support for teachers, never mind organised training to prepare them to teach the material. That's why packages like the Pi (and its associated documentation and teaching materials) are so appealing, and that's the difference between the Pi and some other random small computer

And if you think the pins are irrelevant, you have no idea what schools are actually doing with them (and why)

Ok, and? Having GPIO pins is irrelevant to teaching computer science. Your schools already have computers, the Pi is unnecessary. The Pi foundation should give up thwir quixotic quest to tie the education stuff to the Pi itself, because free open source virtual machines could be used to run the same sorts of things on any modern computer, or even any computer built since 1999. So you wouldn't have a physical LED to flash, big deal!

Why do you keep insisting on only comparing the pi to "small computers"? I don't see anything in your national curriculum that dictates computer science must be taught on needlessly small computers instead of the computers your schools already have. Is this just some long standing fetishization of the old school BBC Micro and similar, and assuming that modern students should learn on something similarly limited?

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Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

You have no idea what computer science is about then. Are you confusing it with hardware engineering? You can get a drat Ph.d in the subject without ever doing hardware stuff.


eightysixed posted:

Even more wrong if you're talking about Artificial Intelligence / Robotics in a Computer Science background driven capacity.
So you really were talking about something completely different, then.

baka kaba posted:


Because it's a computer that's small. It can go in things, like all the stuff kids are building in schools, as a programmable embedded controller, etc

Funny you mention the BBC and it's limitations, we used Logo on them. It was shite. Kids are doing way more interesting and relevant stuff with the Pi, getting a far broader education, and that's a great thing


:ironicat:

You can also just actually buy things that are meant to go into other things, and use your already existing computers for teaching computer science stuff. poo poo you can buy legos with integrated control stuff.

What's supposed to be ironic on that? When I was a kid we used it on the same computers we used Word and the internet on.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

baka kaba posted:

It's ironic that you call the Pi limited like the BBC, after advocating kids learning Logo (a BBC staple) instead of all the cool, engaging stuff the Pi and its ecosystem is allowing them to do

Logo wasn't invented for the BBC Micro, and it was solely brought up as an example of a computer science thing that even a completely untrained in computers teacher can handle, and use on the existing computers for less money.

Normal computers have an even "cooler" and "more engaging" ecosystem of things you can do with them, especially for elementary school students learning computer science, which you appear to be stuck on.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

IuniusBrutus posted:

I got a RPi2 to use with RetroPie (and just generally gently caress around with), but I'm kind of curious if I can use this to save a little money.

I basically only use Windows to run YNAB, my printer, and my scanner, and can otherwise survive entirely in Chrome OS. I hate keeping around a full windows machine just for this. Would the Pi2 be able to function as a Chrome Remote Desktop host, CUPS server, SMB server, and very occasionally run a lightweight program through WINE? I know people use them for CUPS and Samba, but I suspect running Chrome Remote Desktop and YNAB might kill it.

In order to use WINE on a Raspberry Pi, you will need to run it within QEMU or another x86 VM, since the Pi's ARM. It'll likely run like absolute poo poo if you try to do that, since the CPU's not the best the start with, and then has to run a VM on top of everything else.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

G-Prime posted:

Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but WINE doesn't do instruction translation from x86->ARM, so there should be no way it can run real x86 Windows apps.

That's what QEMU is for, you basically run an instance of x86 linux in it on your ARM device, and run WINE within that. Slow as heck on most ARM devices, but will work.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe
Well ordinarily I'd recommend a full VM, but the Pi2 is RAM constrained so WINE will do a better job given the conditions at hand. He's not expecting games after all.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

eschaton posted:

I'm surprised WINE doesn't have hooks for directly plugging in x86 emulation like QEMU, rather than being run in a full emulated OS. Given how well "emulate the CPU but make the API calls native" systems have worked for the past 20+ years it seems like a no-brainier.

Because ain't nobody with the experience has been contributing that to the project.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe
Honestly if ARM reaches the point where x86 emulation on it can be handled at like ~70% of the speed of contemporary actual x86 chips of the time, we're looking at such a powerful ARM chip that people will be rushing to port poo poo.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Hadlock posted:

Further googling yields a commercial product called Eltechs ExaGear Desktop which claims "up to 80% of native ARM application performance. Running x86 applications on ARM delivers close to native run" on ARMv7

They have RPi and RPi2 Debian images ready to purchase for $20 and $25 respectively

http://eltechs.com/product/exagear-desktop/
http://eltechs.com/product/exagear-desktop/exagear-desktop-features-and-prices/

Huh and also Cubieboard, ODROID, Banana Pi

80% of native ARM performance is currently something like 30% of contemporary actual x86 performance on high end arm chipsets, and likely as low as 5% on a pi 2. A pi 1 would perform like a Pentium II.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

A Proper Uppercut posted:

The vast majority of mame builds I've seen have them wired directly to a board instead of using usb. I'm not going to pretend to know why.

When it comes to people building durable MAME devices, then yeah there's no point in having the controllers be detachable anymore, so why leave that in? poo poo's going to stay in your cabinet pretty much indefinitely, likely including you removing the original top of the sticks so that the buttons and stick go flush in a real arcade handrest area.

That's why.

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Karthe posted:

So the Pi can only boot from microSD cards

It'll boot from regular SD and miniSD cards too.

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Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

eschaton posted:

What kind of performance could I expect out of an SD card? I'm seeing some inexpensive cards rated for 90 MB/sec read and 50 MB/sec write; can the Pi (or other comparable SBC) get anywhere close to that? Or is 10-20 MB/sec all one can expect, no matter what the card can handle?

Last I checked both Pis are USB 2.0, so your max speed is about 32 megabytes per second with no additional overhead going on. In real world situations, it'll be half that or less because the Pi's CPU needs to handle other things, and because a bunch of the stuff on the Pi is also accessed through the USB 2.0 bus.

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