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So I've recently been in contact with a local business owner who makes a product that's decoration for rear windshield wipers. He's seeking a designer to help expand what he has to offer, and going by the emails I should expect to be contacted by him today to discuss things further. He wanted to know how many hours I'd be able to dedicate to freelance designs, seemed an odd question but I answered honestly. But he also brought up something which seemed a little surprising. He wanted to know whether I'd be willing to design on a residual basis, and I had to do some googling to actually understand what he was talking about. Now it actually sounds like a good thing, paid on each product with one of my designs sold up to a pre-determined cap. I told him I'd need to think on that a bit further, but that I might be interested. The real question here is, what might I be looking to deal with regarding this? In all honesty I'm not sure how he intends to pay for my services, there aren't many blatant ways for him to pay me by the hour that I can think of unless I used a program that tracks my work, and then on top of that I don't even really know how much to charge per hour. I suppose realistically I'll find out a lot of this today, we were talking through email rather late yesterday after all. It'll just be nice knowing what to say in case something sounds off is all. Edit: Just got off the phone with him. I gotta say the guy is very laid back, and it was easy to talk with him. From what it sounds like he wanted to know how many hours I'd be able to dedicate to get an idea of how many designs I could complete in a week. Compensation will be done entirely through a residual payment, with each product being sold for $15-$19 dollars I would receive $1 per sale up to a cap of $100 per design. I'm not experienced enough to know whether this is a good deal or not, but given my current financial situation it may be a sound decision. A lot of the designs may not even require much work, such as creating baseball bats from an already built template for local teams. Arthil fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 14:58
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kedo posted:Noooo.... you did this all wrong! Had a feeling that it wouldn't be as useful as it seemed. Now the guy threw around some wording suggesting that I might not know how to do what he wants me to do. He's seen my portfolio, which is here: http://www.cawilliams.portfoliobox.me/ , and overall thought I didn't have enough to judge things. I'm just going to go ahead and link to his web store as well so you guys can see what some of his current designs are: https://www.wipertags.com/shop-wipertags.html From what I've been told, a lot of what he's done has been his own work. He's also had some stuff done by friends, but there are a handful of other designers he's worked with. That highly detailed dogs paw is a good example, along with the lightsabers and the chainsaw/machete. His explanation for why the other artists are no longer working with him is because they were just far too busy with other work to continue. But now I'm wondering whether they might have cut ties once the "payment" method he goes for bit them in the rear end, or if he is the one who ended the businesses relationship because they were too expensive for him. A lot of what he was talking about seemed to be animal focused, as his store is sparse to put it lightly. He also does custom work for local sports teams. From how it sounded the first things he'd want would be animal tails(cats especially as he was contacted about if he had any and had to tell people no.) One concern is that he did use the phrasing of "I have to take care of all the marketing/shipping/packaging stuff and you just do the art" Which felt a little dismissive. Now I don't wanna just send him an email that simply sounds like "Pay me more money, now." Or... I guess I kind of need to but I'd like to not burn a bridge before it's even been built. I'm not savvy on contracts, and judging by what that calculator says my hourly rate would be somewhere around $19. How much should I ask him? Should I even inquire about his revenue, about which products are the best selling?(I kind of did already, suggested the lightsabers had sold the best and he said they were his best-sellers). This seems both like it could be an excellent opportunity if I can do this right, or a flat out disaster where I'm ripped off. Edit: Defenestration posted:Other people have said it but this is a terrible deal. If it's capped at $100 he should just be paying you $100 per design up front, and even that is low if you think about it hourly. When it comes to the local teams, the way it works out on the website they come to him for the custom work to be done. He's also trying to work something out where he could produce state team products.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:01
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I guess the reason I felt it was a good opportunity is that I'm a little desperate. I've been working with illustrator for close to 6 months(going on seven) and I've just not had any luck with work. When I first started a lot of what I was doing was spec work on contest websites, as I just wasn't sure how else to get experience working with the program and building a portfolio. This being the first time that I'd spoken with someone local also made it seem like a wonderful thing, but with everything you guys have told me unless I get a solid contract without the limited residual/spec work crap it wouldn't even be worth my time. Even before coming here to ask for advice, the fact that he used the words "It will help you build your portfolio" kind of shot up a red flag in the back of my mind. It feels like the guy thinks I'll be cheap labor for very simple work. kedo, mind if you shoot me an email with that? I don't actually have PMs on here(though I really should get them) and my work email is available under my portfolio's About Me page.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:15
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kedo posted:e: On second thought, it's probably not the best idea to post my contract on the interwebs. PM me if you'd like to see it. Hey kedo, shoot me an email if you'd still want to share it: andrewwilliams1989@gmail.com But yeah we'll see how things go, got a feeling that he won't be willing to work out a contrast. Hell I'd honestly be fine with say... $50 up front along with a residual up to $100. But I agree that even if the work isn't all that complicated, not compensating me for my time is not cool. He outright asked me in the emails whether design was a side thing/hobby or what I wanted to do full time. You'd think being told that it's what you intend to do full time wouldn't equal "Might not pay you a dime". Someone earlier in the thread posted that invoice website, already got myself set up on it. Wonderful idea. Edit: Sent him an email explaining that we'll need to come to an agreement for me to be compensated per design, and if I'll be paid a residual per sale we'll also need a contract. Thanks for getting back to me so quickly on all of this guys. I'll need to keep looking if he has no interest in actually paying me. He did after all ask me whether this is more of a hobby or something I want to do full-time. You'd think that being told that you intend to do something full-time would read as "I want to make a living doing this." He's not the only small business owner out there, I'll just keep working on personal projects and dabble here and there in contests which sound fun so that I will have more to add to my portfolio. Arthil fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 08:46
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Do I take a screenshot of the email he just sent me and link it here, or not. I think I probably should, though I'll edit out anything too specific. Or I can just not be a doofus and link the text here in a spoiler. Understood. It's a residual only job for now. I have a simple contract agreement I can send you. I can't afford to pay a salary yet because I don't have the revenue. If your designs sell, we both get make money. If they don't, we don't. These designs will get done, whether it's you or someone else. I can go to Fiverr.com and pay someone $5 to make each one with no residual, but I prefer to keep it local and give someone the opportunity to make money and build their portfolio. I can send you visit stats to my website and sales of designs to show you the growth. I've been a freelance designer, and its not a great gig. You get paid one time for something that may take days or weeks to make the client happy. This isn't complicated design work. You can knock most designs out in less than an hours. Some in 15 -20 minutes or less. Most designs can and will eventually sell 100 pieces, especially when I get into retail. Do the math. I sold 120 dog bones to one non profit that took me 10 minutes to make. They have been reselling to make money for their organization. I'm also working on a Kickstarter video and fundraising campaign that will drive tens of thousands of people to the site. When that happens, I have to have more products to offer, because they will expect it. That's the urgency. I don't have time to design then all. If you don't want to be part of this, I understand. But I'm offering you an opportunity to invest your talent, hone your skills, and build your portfolio while getting paid doing it. I didn't even mention the opportunity for direct sales. There are millions of leagues, schools, churches, non profits and other organizations who would love this product. I work these leads everyday as they come in. We can work on a commission split on these sales. They are 99% via email. I also have several people selling this product on the side to make money. I sell to them for $10 and they resell for $15. Unlimited potential. Let me know if you are interested and I will get you some samples of the product so you can see the quality of them. Otherwise, I wish you the best of luck. Now it's weird that he goes right into thinking I assume the product isn't quality, I never mentioned that. If I were to go by my own gut from the email, he sounds desperate. Just not desperate enough to go to cheapo websites to get the work done. I also didn't ever suggest he give me a salary, I suggested I be paid per piece of artwork along with residual. Edit: Also gently caress me if it isn't weirdly conflicting that he doesn't want to use a cheapo $5 design website and keep it local, yet seems to not want to pay someone who is local for their work. Arthil fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 14:39
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Yeah, I'm gonna keep firm with him about this. After I've seen his "contract" I'll make a mention of how confident he is of his product and that if he is that confident then he shouldn't have any problem paying a fair market value. Though to be honest, I should probably square out what exactly a fair market value would be for the sort of work he's asking for. I'm definitely not going to accept only residual pay with this guy, I've been doing nothing but spec work bullshit with contest websites the past several months and I only have one success to name and even then it's only $200 when I've put a lot of effort in working with that client. This guy has not caught the kind of fish that's just going to accept his one-sided terms.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:27
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Understood, I'll glance at the contract but will just reply something along those lines. It's funny how as my first real project for a client is nearing its end, I meet a person who's essentially a greedy rear end in a top hat.
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Apr 14, 2015 20:35
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Oh I know. Honestly I'm surprised the hypocrisy didn't hit me sooner. Asks me whether this is my job or a hobby, asks me how many hours I could dedicate to the work. All for him to not offer any kind of real payment. I mean hell I'm an artist it isn't like I need much food anyway, cause I sit at the computer all day right?(So much sarcasm) And here's the thing, the product is actually kind of neat in that tacky put-poo poo-on-your-car way and seems to be better quality than his competition. He's just delusional if he thinks he'll build an extensive selection of products by offering a buck a pop. It's also taken him a hilarious amount of time to respond with his simple contract. I've got a feeling I won't hear back from him. I guess the best way for me to gauge this whole situation is like this... Through a contest, which is also horrible spec work, I'm soon going to manage to make $200. The client turned out to be wonderful, and in the end this will be an opportunity to put something real in my portfolio. Of course the only issue with that is, 99designs recently changed their terms where they're essentially shackling you to use their platform with any clients you met through it for a year. Arthil fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Apr 15, 2015 |
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Apr 15, 2015 01:16
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redcheval posted:If I were you, I'd come up with some more concrete career goals (want to freelance full-time for a living? Find a job at a design firm? Stay where you are or move to a new city?), stop doing spec work and design contests cold turkey, and start building a portfolio essentially like a design student would. Spec work is draining and you're often stuck working with bottom of the barrel clients like Mr. Wiper Cling. This generally results in watered down work that isn't necessarily getting you to where you want to be. A mere shot at $200 every go around isn't ever going to make you a living. I've been chit-chatting with kedo over emails and I definitely agree. Need to build my portfolio through either creating design briefs for imaginary businesses(or asking friends to do so) or simply picking local places. Funny you say pizza place cause we got...  This place, locally. Now the little old lady has been their logo for as long as I can remember, I've been getting pizzas from this place since I was 4 years old. The only thing I can maybe think of is that they added color to the old girl, though it may have just been the same colors but only outlined previously.I'm not sure I have the means to actually get my stuff on real world things, and access to cameras are certainly limited. Even my cell phone camera barely has the muscle to snap checks for my bank. But of course mock-ups are widely available online, and in a lot of my previous work I've used them to get a feel for how the design looks when not simply a flat logo. Most of the time though the clients only intended to use it on a website. Moving to a new place is a scary prospect, not one I'm against mind you but I need to build something to lean on if I decide to go that route. Can't skip off to another city or state with little to my name.
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Apr 16, 2015 02:39
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Branding is definitely something I want to work on as well, I've just been focusing so much on logo creation. My basic understanding of a style guide though is it basically instructs the client on how to use the designs correctly, right? I'll study up on it and with this made-up pizza place I could also work out a style guide to go along with it. But yeah I'll also try something for Annie's too, maybe before I try one of my own making to get a feel for it. The only things I've worked on which would have been printed on a product would have been the MONSTER Mouthguards tiger, and the FRESHZA! logo. The fun design tends to be stuff you can get to hold in your hand so I'm looking forward to giving the pizza place stuff a try. Obviously I'd work in CMYK rather than RGB with those projects, right? Edit: This where I realize I can't find a free pizza box mockup to save my life. Well once my latest project pays out I'll likely buy one from Graphicriver. Arthil fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Apr 17, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 03:04
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So I come with a new problem, although it's not as severe as last time. The majority of paid font licenses are done with language suggesting that the font cannot be modified unless given written consent by the creator/owner of the font. However I'm wondering to what extent this actually applies. My client favors a particular paid font, and their main request was for the straight edges to be rounded to better suit the desired appearance. As you can guess that is why I'm asking for help here. I've got the full license, which I'll paste into a spoiler below. Hopefully someone will be able to tell me whether I need to go digging for a font which will suit the needs of my client without any modifications. Edit: Got the answer straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. God I feel dumb... Arthil fucked around with this message at 18:35 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 17:57
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While I cannot yet speak for it, I have managed to get myself a part-time job for the next four months thanks to Upwork. It could simply be that it was a fluke, a moment of luck. On the other hand I've also gotten an opportunity to work for even more money per hour on a similar part-time basis through a friend who works for an advertising agency.
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Jan 14, 2016 23:26
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In general, usually, avoid people posting jobs that don't have a history. Make sure their payment information is verified, and if you're really concerned you could also try to stick to someone within your own country. The nice thing is that Upwork protects you from most shenanigans, albeit a client has similar protections.
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Jan 15, 2016 07:23
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Sort of relating to what I talked about earlier. The supposed gig from Upwork seemed to fall flat on its face very quickly. Instead however I've managed to get myself set up with a far better type of contracted work. I'll be doing design work related to advertisements, the system working where I keep track of my own hours and then fill out an invoice form. I'm paid via direct deposit, they have requested my W-9 so I can suspect to receive the proper 1099 forms for next year. And to top it all off I'm making $25/h. Even if the work is part-time it is still leaps and bounds better than any job I've ever had. The connection came via a friend, who actually works at the physical offices for the advertisement agency. My contract with them is going to span a year, so at least until 2017 I should have semi-regular work. Things are looking good.
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Jan 27, 2016 17:49
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Basically sounds like the situation I was in last year. Some rear end wanting me to make designs for his silly product, with only the possibility of being paid from sales (and only up to $100 per design). I had a wave of people telling me to abandon ship as fast as possible, and it sounds like you should too.
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Jan 29, 2016 11:34
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So I've asked around a few places but I figure it's always good to get information from multiple sources. This year I've been having a lot of success with my design work, it's not the most glamorous thing ever. Mainly working with existing assets or creating simple new ones for advertisements through an agency that hires out contractors. I've looked up the general taxes I need to be aware of working independently like this, and have been putting aside 25% of everything I make weekly from the agency. I also put aside 25% from any side work, such as jobs from UpWork or other websites. I'm hoping to pay quarterly so that I'll receive a tax return next year. The agency will send me a 1099, however I wouldn't receive one elsewhere except if I might do other contracted work from a company. I understand that the 'quarters' for paying taxes aren't exact, from Jan-April being the first and May-June being the second. However I'm just wondering what might be the best way to go about sending the set aside money to the government. I know... most of what I need to for the Federal Taxes I think, though State Taxes are another story entirely.
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Feb 27, 2016 08:04
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