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a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Herding dogs have an immensely strong desire to chase things that are moving, often regardless of whether it's a sheep, a squirrel, a ball or another dog. I think that's what you're seeing there. You're not going to have a lot of success punishing the desire to chase out of him (removing him from the stimulus, or anything else). Rather you should probably a) give him something to do instead and b) work on his self control. The cornerstone of all dog training is self control, so you'll do well to enroll in a class. As he grows, look into classes that will develop off leash skills using impulse control games like Its Yer Choice, Look At That, etc. Work on creating a wonderful recall and a love of tugging with you. Use tug as an outlet for him instead of using that energy to chase cats. Look into reading Control Unleashed by McDevitt.

It'll be a long process though, and will be something you'll work on for a good long time. Don't expect miracles overnight.

Gate him off from your books so he can't practice improper behaviour, and give him plenty of outlets for chewing. Eventually with proper direction your books should be safe.

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a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Victory Yodel posted:

While not confirmed by the shelter, I suspect she was abused and just want her to know that she's safe and won't be hurt again :( .

I doubt it. Some dogs are just nervous by nature and take a long time to recover from stressful events. She may never be an outgoing, love-everyone type of dog, but this definitely does not indicate any sort of abuse.

I'd give her a good 2 weeks or so of a set schedule and low-stress interactions. Drop food on the floor as you pass her by - petting or talking to a dog who is feeling stressed and has no bond with you won't help much, and could actually slow progress. Dogs often need to learn to enjoy those kinds of interactions, and right now you're starting from scratch. The best way to a dog's heart is through their belly.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Andohz posted:

So this morning I found a 2 inch piece of a bully stick in our 15month old staffy's poo. I thought they were digestable :ohdear:, does this mean we'll have to start buying bigger ones and taking them away before she swallows the end piece or was it just a fluke?

I think it's a good idea to keep an eye on the stick once it gets down to a swallowable size, then throw it out.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

MrFurious posted:

Re: harnesses - they are excellent for teaching dogs to pull. Use with caution or get a no-pull harness.


Not sure what you're describing with your harness. It sounds like a pinch harness that squeezes his legs/shoulders together when he pulls. Is this accurate? I'd actually recommend just a standard front clip harness.

The Easy Walk harness has a martingale type feature in the front. In my experience it's pretty useless though - the adjusters on it tend to slip and then it doesn't fit right.

Re: recall, we talk about it a fair amount in the dog training megathread too. I think there are a few helpful posts linked in the 4th part of the OP.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Psychobabble! posted:

Tl;dr: is having a puppy in an apartment "fair" when you work with dogs full time, can take it to work, and have it socialize with other dogs/people, the apartment is okay with it, are an active person, and you plan to live in a house in less than 6 months anyways?

I live in an apartment with this:



(and another small dog) and I do fine.

It means you have to be pretty religious about bathroom breaks. I do one in the morning, I come home at lunch, one right after work and 1-2 more over the course of the evening. It can be a pain in the rear end leashing each dog up, especially if you're more used to just letting them out in the yard to do their business. I give the dogs a 45 minute off leash walk/run each morning, and another 1hr walk/run in the evening. With that set up we seem to be doing pretty well. Some days they'll get more exercise, some days they get less.

In my experience, dogs don't do much with the space they have inside - especially if they're getting sufficient exercise outside. I have zero issues with people having high energy dogs in apartments as long as they're committed to the dogs' day to day needs.

e: with a young pup you'll probably be taking it out every hour while you work on housebreaking.

a life less fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Oct 24, 2012

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

uptown posted:

I have a question about my 5 month old Newfie (Shanti) and my mom's 5 year old Golden Retriever (Aussie). They are bestest friends in the whole world, and whenever they are together they are either playing together or snuggling and sleeping. However, I wanted to ask PI if it's okay that most of their playing is just running after each other and biting. Shanti has been mouthy since I got him, but the frequent nipping was trained out fairly easily and now he only mouths me when he's overstimulated, at which point I disengage and ignore. I wasn't living in the same province as my parents when they got Aussie, but I don't remember him being mouthy as a pup at all, and he doesn't even play-bite when people play with him, though he will always have a stuffie in his mouth unless he's playing with Shanti.

Their biting is definitely playful, and if I get between them and tell them to stop, they will disengage from each other. The biting has never caused broken skin or even any yelping, though they do growl a lot. I interpret that as playful, but if it's not, I'll work on more appropriate ways of energy expenditure for the both of them. They also are around cats on a daily basis, my parents and I have two each. Shanti used to try to mouth them, but he doesn't do that at all anymore, and since he's quite large now, I'm glad for it.

Fake edit: Just to clarify, my parents and I don't live together, in case it sounded like we did. The dogs have lots of sleepovers and playdates, though.


It sounds just fine. If you're concerned they're getting too hot, call them away from play, reward with a treat and allow them to reengage. If both seem into restarting the play, let them go. If one seems to want to chill out or leave, take the more active dog away for a bit of a chill out period.

It sounds like your two dogs are doing just fine with each other. One thing to keep in mind is not all dogs like to be gnawed on like that. Your pup may realize that Dog X likes to play like this and Dog Y likes to play like that, and adapt play accordingly. Or you may need to step in if your pup gets overzealous with other dogs. Some dogs' play styles simply don't mesh well. For instance, my herder likes to chase and bark and wrestle fairly aggressively. She doesn't adapt her play style well at all to other dogs, so I don't allow her to play with most dogs unless they pretty obviously into her craziness. My friend's field Golden is crazy and will wrestle and chase and bark with my dog, but he'll play much more gently with other dogs -- he's smart enough to realize that to continue playing he needs to adapt his approach. Monitoring who your dog can play with is pretty easy, if you have to go that way.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Goldmund posted:

I'm really close to putting a deposit down on this little guy.



Spent about 30 minutes talking to the breeder so far, and have been very impressed with her knowledge and the answers she had to the list of questions in the OP. Anyone care to take a look at their site and see if any red flags pop up?

http://www.bigsheltiekisses.com

Not too bad. Not great, but I don't see any glaring red flags by any means.

My biggest issue is that the dogs don't DO anything. I think they have one male with his championship finished, but I don't see any other titles, confo/sports/etc, on any of their dogs. I don't necessarily care if they're not breeding agility/obedience champions, but Shelties are notorious for having incredibly soft temperaments. I would say that they're too soft, as a breed. I'd be concerned that the dogs' and pups' will have that same too-soft temperament if they've not shown that they can hack it in the performance world.

I guess having a soft dog isn't the worst thing in the world if that's what you're looking for, but I find these dogs terminally boring and very difficult to work with. A lot will develop fear issues and be perpetually stressed and shut down. Sharp, active Shelties are a pleasure to work with. Unfortunately they're becoming pretty rare to find.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

I would ask quite a few questions about the temperament and personality of sire, dam and other dogs of her line. If words like quiet, reserved, nervous, withdrawn, cautious etc come up I would maybe reconsider. You don't want those things in a pet either. Also most breeders will sugar coat their dogs' issues so words like that can belay deeper problems.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

MrFurious posted:

I bolded the parts that people seem to be having trouble reading. Given that you have a documented and actual bite case at this point I think it is wholly inappropriate to be going to a regular dog trainer if you have an alternative.

While I agree that she needs to see someone well versed in handling dog aggression, I don't think it's 100% necessary for her to insist on seeing a behaviourist. This article touches on some key points: http://canineaggression.blogspot.ca/2012/10/whats-wrong-tihe-being-dog-trainer.html

E: I mean, don't go to someone who tends to specialize in family dog training if you have a serious issue like a documented bite. But don't turn a blind eye to everyone without particular letters behind their name.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Cosinetta posted:


I've been lurking PI for years, reading a bunch of books (don't shoot the dog, power of positive dog training, before and after getting your puppy, and a bunch of others) and just all around was excited to do some +R training with a dog. Teemo is very food motivated, which is excellent, and he's already pretty well behaved. He's bad on leash, but after only this week he's already not pulling as much so we're keeping on training for that. Same with crate (if you look at the other pictures, you can see the first time he went into the crate by himself to get a treat! Now he does it super easily, we've already started on closed-door crate games and he's doing so well).

We went to the vet yesterday just for a general first appointment and get him chipped, and again he was just super good. We had been practicing "sit to say please" all week beforehand so he was sitting pretty easily for treats before greeting the people. He's a little chubby, out of shape, but otherwise fairly healthy. I had been worried about his legs, and the vet confirmed that he's got a couple of issues. Luxating patella in hind legs (not super bad and it doesn't cause pain), and his front legs are bow-legged. You can see it really well in this pic:

We are now giving him glucosamine with each meal, and he has no problem eating it. We are also trying to give him some decent exercise and keep his food intake at a good-yet-low level (not too low just yet until we see how he does with exercise). I had wanted, originally, to go do some agility with him when spring/summer comes around (after he's learned more manners and put on more muscles). The vet said he should be ok with that, as long as I watched him carefully and dialed it down if he looked in any pain at all. Does that sound ok? I would want to do agility more for having fun with the dog and such, and I guess I could do obedience or some other doggy sport if it would be really bad for him.

His old owners had him on Royal Canin Miniature Schnauzer, which is not ideal but not totally terrible looking at the ingredients list. We picked up Blue grain-free small breed kibble and we're halfway to having him switched on it (no problem at all so far, poops look good and regular). The vet however recommended Royal Canin Dental, because apparently there is an element in it that helps with stones and liver function? His teeth are fine (a little bit of tartar on his pre-molar, but nothing bad, and I'm already desensitization on tooth brushing), and I thought just having him on a proper, good quality diet would help with any liver issues or bladder stones. I was also thinking of switching him to FROMM chicken a la veg after this Blue bag is done, after seeing I can have access to FROMM food at a local pet store that I didn't know carried it. Any advice on that?

Anyways lotsa words, I'm just excited to have a dog again and that he's such a Good Boy.

It sounds like you're doing really well by this dog. Re: the possible future in agility, it shouldn't be a problem as long as you keep tabs on him for pain. Keep him jumping relatively low (not much higher than his knees). And of course, that's contingent on you getting all that excess weight off him, 'cause he's a little fattie right now. As for other sports, rally is fun, practical and is an easy entry point into the world of competitive dog sports. As you advance in Rally there are some pretty fun behaviours integrated into it like jumping, walking backwards, etc.

I'd probably skip on the Royal Canin Dental stuff and just get him on a high quality food which agrees with him.

Good luck!

Seashell Salesman posted:

Maybe this is not answerable without knowing what exactly is wrong, but how on Earth should we react when she does this at night? We've tried ignoring it, telling her no, comforting her, squirting her with water.

If it's a behavioural loop (rather than a neurological issue) I would address it via more exercise as Kiri said, interrupting him when he starts to exhibit signs that he might start up, and MAYBE a citronella collar. The collars have better timing as interrupters than you. Sometimes you just need a bit of a hand to snap him out of it and then you can start better addressing the problem. Keep in mind, the collar is intrinsically aversive, so if you don't address the underlying issue you'll be doing a disservice to your dog and you may not end up fixing the problem in the long run.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

I'm copy/pasting my contribution to the Yappy Rats thread.

----

There are multiple ways to approach dog barking. Some breeds are barkier than others, so while you can drastically reduce barking through consistent training, you cannot expect to completely extinguish the behaviour.

First, some basics:
    Crate training is highly recommended. If the dog has a safe den-like place where it can be confined during the day it will reduce the dog's desire to bark.
    Limit your dog's access to windows or other bark-inducing stimuli when you're not around. You can train all evening, but if your dog is free to bark during the day you're not going to make much progress. Barking is a self-rewarding behaviour that is not going to extinguish on its own.
    Limit your dog's access to a yard unsupervised. As said above, if your dogs are barking like crazy outside then you're going to be undoing much of the work you're doing inside.
    Exercise! A lot of dogs bark when they're bored. They have pent-up energy and barking is the most obvious outlet for it. When they're understimulated they're going to make their own fun, and 98% of the time what a dog determines fun is not going to gel with living peacefully with humans.
    Determine your dog's triggers so you can preempt barking fits. The fewer opportunities your dog has to repeat the behaviour the faster you'll be able to train it to live quietly.
    Be consistent! Since some dogs like barking for the pure joy of it you're going to have to go out of your way to be consistent with your training. Don't slack off. The process of training your dog not to bark is a long and slow one.
    Dogs bark to alert you of a disturbance. Sometimes it's helpful to acknowledge your dog's alert and then go back to business as usual. "Thank you Marlo, I see the mailman/car/dog/plastic bag."

So, everything mentioned above is about managing a dog who likes to bark. Now comes the other part, teaching them not to bark. There are two basic ways to do this: operant conditioning and classical conditioning.

Operant Conditioning:

This is the basic process of teaching a dog (or person or rat or...) to voluntarily modify their behaviour through the application of reinforcement or punishment. This is teaching your dog what you want it to do. Clicker training comes in very helpful here.

You want to start by marking the behaviour you want, either with the clicker or your marker word (yes! or whatever you choose). You can wait for your dog to bark and wait for the silence afterwards. In that split second of silence you mark it and reward with a treat. It might be easier for you to set up a situation where your dog is likely to bark to reinforce the silence afterwards (have a friend open the door, or walk down the hallway, etc). Once your dog starts looking at you expectantly for a treat after a bark (this means that the dog understands that a treat is coming for the quiet) then start adding the verbal and/or physical cue (quiet or shhh with a hand up to your mouth, etc). With enough repetitions congratulations, you've taught your dog what quiet means.

Now you want to begin introducing the cue while they're barking. Start slowly at first -- if your dogs bark like crazy when a dog is outside the window don't immediately jump to working on this situation. Instead try it with a person outside, or any lower-intensity type stimulus your dog reacts to. Give your dog the command and if they're quiet for even a split second reward like crazy -- jackpot! Reward heavily when a dog complies to a quiet command. Use awesome treats that the dog will miss if he doesn't comply.

That's the basic idea behind operant conditioning. You want to focus on rewarding for good behaviour and ignoring the bad. If you opt to use punishment to quiet a barking dog you're going to raise the anxiety level and you're effectively working against yourself -- anxiety is what causes a dog to bark. Which brings me to:

Classical Conditioning

Some of the reasons dogs bark is that they're insecure, fearful and anxious. So a very effective way to eliminate barking is to change how your dog feels about certain stimuli. You are going to be counter conditioning an emotional response through desensitization and repetition.

Remember Pavlov? He classically conditioned dogs to salivate to the sound of a bell through sounding the bell before a dog was fed. Through repetition the dogs subconsciously associated the bell with the arrival of food, and would give the same physical response even with no food present. The bell was the predictor of good things, and all this happened on a very basic reptilian level. So, you, as the owner of a barky dog, want to work on changing the dogs emotional reaction to a stimulus by making it the predictor of good things.

A basic way to go about this is to have a handful of treats and pair it with a knock at the door. Knock, treat, knock, treat regardless of whether your dog is barking or not. With enough repetitions the knock at the door will be Pavlov's bell, and will be subconsciously paired with the arrival of food. Now the knock at the door isn't so scary, and there is less reason to bark.

You can do this with just about anything. If your dog reacts to other dogs walking down the street as soon as your dog notices the other start shoveling food into its mouth. This basic principle can be applied to so many kinds of behaviour modification to remove the negative learned association your dog has, and replacing it with warm fuzzy feelings.

The ultimate goal of classical conditioning is to get your dog operant so actual learning can occur. A lot of people try to leap to working operantly when the dog is so riled up that it is physically impossible for the dog to react to commands. You can use both operant and classical conditioning together. Use operant when your dog is operant, and classical when your dog is not. It's a wonderful positive method that can be very successful in reducing dog barking if done correctly.

Books I would recommend for further reading:

Fight! A Practical Guide to the Treatment of Dog-Dog Aggression by Jean Donaldson

Don't Shoot the Dog! The New Art of Teaching and Training by Karen Pryor

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

I live in an apartment, and I have pretty barky dogs - the big one barks during play and the small one was a bad alert barker. We had a dispute with the landlord, so we felt it was vitally important to keep the dogs quiet when we first moved in. I bought a citronella collar to use on the tiny dog and I've been quite happy with the results.

It served as an interrupter with much better timing than I could hope for. Once it had interrupted the barking I would offer food and praise and play for keeping quiet. I used this as a compliment to basic counter conditioning to strange noises, neighbour sounds, etc. I also ensure that both dogs are well exercised and more interested in sleeping when they're at home. Long lasting treats are a good time killer/energy drainer for when you're not home too.

The collar will only suppress the desire to bark if you don't pair it with proper training, and you're likely to see the barking reemerge at a later date.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

With Mega, I only first used the collar whenever I suspected we'd have some barking. Heck, I even pretend-knocked at the door to cue a bark to prompt the collar spray. After the first week or so I only put the collar on her when I left the apartment as that was my primary concern.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Psychobabble! posted:


I'm getting a large breed dog, but as a puppy. Should I just get a huge crate and section it off as it grows? Or should I get a smaller crate and work up?

I'd buy one crate and section it off. I found old milk crates handy for this if the crate doesn't come with its own sectioner.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

ShadowStalker posted:

Thanks, I found a certified CPDT-KA Trainer at http://www.k9obedienceclub.org/training.html Going to sign Duke up for the Puppy K class and follow up with the Puppy Star class.

That's a great first step. Good work!

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

BigDave posted:

Whats a good tug rope? Bruce LOVES to play tug-of-war, but whenever he 'wins' he rips the rope to shreds.

You could try the kong tug thing: http://www.kongcompany.com/products/for-dogs/rubber-toys/interactive-rubber-toys/tug/

My dog got one as a gift for PISS and she really likes it. Up 'til now I was really only getting good tugging on ropes.

But tug toys should be special and not left out if you're not directly playing with them with your dog. Less unsupervised time with the toy should increase its life.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

MrDutch posted:

Hi,

I have a few questions about possibly adopting a dog.

I would love to have a buddy, but I also want to make the right decision and not get a dog just for me.

My situation is as follows:
- I live alone.
- Live in an appartement on the 10th floor (there are elevators).
- I work full-time (leave the house at 08:10 and return at 17:15).

The big thing is the full-time job, but i live within walking distance from work. So the dog would be alone for 9 hours.

I have discussed with work if i could get a 90 minute lunch break, so i can go home and walk the dog for an hour. So the day will be split like this:

From 08:10 to 12:15 the dog would alone. From 12:15 to 13:15 there would be an hour walk. Then alone again from 13:15 to 18:15. The extra hour is to compensate for the longer lunch.

For daily walks i have this plan:
45 min walk before leaving for work. The 1 hour walk during lunch. 30 min walk after returning from work. And a 60/90 min walk in the evening.

Those are from monday to friday. In the weekends we could go to the forest or beach.

A puppy is off course out of the question, i have been looking a nearby shelters and plan to get some information in the coming weeks.

I'm just worried that the alone time would be to much.

How do other people with full-time jobs handle this?
That sounds like a pretty good schedule, actually. Pretty similar to mine. I walk my dog(s) for 30-45 mins before work, I come home at lunch 3-4 hours later to let them out to pee and maybe play with them or have a training session then I get back again another 5 hours later where I'll pee them again and probably take them for an hour walk a few hours later. My weekends tend to revolve around spending time with them via training for sports, doing shows or just going for long walks in the woods.

The issue with getting a dog when you live alone is that you can't really switch up your schedule on the fly. It limits your opportunity to go out for drinks with coworkers at the end of the day, or spending a night crashing at a friend's place. If you're sick the dog will still want/need your attention and there'll be no one else to help cover for you. My non-dognerd friends tend to forget I have dogs and need to go home every few hours (I hate leaving them home more than 8 hours at a stretch, and 10 is really pushing it even on special occasions like, say, New Years). Again, my general rule of thumb is not to leave them for more than 4 hours if I can help it. I'm kind of obsessive/paranoid like that.

If you look for a mature, laid back dog with a stable temperament and medium-low exercise requirements I'm sure you could probably pull it off.

a life less fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jan 1, 2013

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Yeah, it sounds like the breeders you were talking to were pretty mediocre. However try not to sound like you're giving them the tenth degree when asking your questions. Obviously there is lots that you want to know about a breeder's dogs, but they field a lot of emails and they spend a lot of time talking about their dogs to people already. It can be tedious answering questions in a checklist type fashion if it's the 100th time you're doing it. Try to keep things really conversational when you ask.

Also I recommend going to shows, meeting a breeder's dogs and connecting that way. The internet is impersonal and it's tough to get a feel for a person's dogs that way. Find 'em online, see if they're doing things you agree with in their breeding program, then try to make contact face to face to chat 'em up.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Check out Triangulum's posts and the responses on the latest page of the dog training megathread. There are a few pointers there. If you need more, do ask.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Here's a photo of a BT I know. He's a great little functional example of what the breed can be.



His head is moderate, his muzzle has at least a bit of length and his nares are wide. He can go all day if you ask him to. I'm not sure where my friend got him, but I can ask. I assume you're in Canada (since your breeder mentions the CKC), as is she, so there's that at least.

I'm not a fan of making GBS threads on people's mediocre breeder choices, but you can surely do better.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Paper Mac posted:

OK, gotcha. Is there any particular reason to prefer a "breed standard" coloration scheme over a non-standard one if the dog appears otherwise healthy (ie moderate head, has a muzzle and can breathe ok, etc), though? Like a BT with a weird color could still be bred to play flyball or whatever?

For sure a bizarre coloured dog could play flyball. But a lot of these unusual colours are recessive. If a breeder is solely focusing on breeding a particular colour they may be (re: are likely) doing so to the detriment of other characteristics. "Pretty colour" is not a good enough reason to breed a dog if it's got hosed up structure, CEA, hip dysplasia, a propensity for human aggression, epilepsy, etc...

Breeding funky coloured dogs isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but if that's a motivating factor for breeding, well, it's a lovely one.

a life less fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jan 28, 2013

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Her collar & tags sound heavy and look like they're hitting her chest when she moves. I wonder if the odd stepping is a way to compensate for any discomfort they're creating?

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

I read a recent Dunbar article where he suggests not yelping because some pups seem to think that they've just created one great big fun squeaky toy. The pitch can add to the excited mania of the pup. I think the yelp -> stop play needs to be associated properly, and if the yelp needs to have an association created, why not use just about anything?

There's no hard fast rule about this working/not working 100% of the time with all dogs, but just something to think of. I tend to agree that it's more a marker than anything else.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Niwrad posted:


I'm a bit nervous about the whole thing and how he will react to her and whatever situations she puts him in. He has been such a wonderful companion with the exception of those two incidences. Would be heartbreaking to her and everyone else to have to take steps in removing him from the home.

A good trainer won't set the dog up to fail, even during an assessment. They really should want to avoid rehearsals of bad behaviour at all costs, so you're not likely to see any explosions during the trainer's visit. Good for you for calling a trainer, and good luck in dealing with these issues.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

A friend of a friend litter of puppies is probably not a good place to get a puppy, unless your friend of a friend is heavily involved with the breed and tests their dogs' health, performance and temperament. It sounds like a convenient backyard breeder. Convenience isn't the best reason to buy a puppy. If they have a website I'm sure people would be happy to pour through it though.

Your schedule sounds tough. If you can afford it, I like the idea of taking some time off to settle the puppy in. But remember that it may be a bit of a shock to the puppy to have you around 27/7, and then alone 8 hours a day. Plenty of people manage okay with traditional long work days and puppies. I would recommend hiring a friend or professional dog walker to come by for a 1/2 hr long puppy visit in the middle of the day for the first few months at least.

You can dock dive with a mutt with zero problems -- or at least you can here. I imagine the dock diving organizations in your area will have zero issues with whether your dog has papers or not. Normally they just ask you to pay a membership fee and they're happy. Dock diving membership fees can be pretty exorbitant, but that's another story unto itself.

No puppy is guaranteed to be healthy. However a pup from health tested parents and from a breeder who is intimately familiar with the lines from which they're breeding will help reduce the risk.

When getting a puppy, it's normally best to look for the most middle of the road puppy in the litter. Not one that's off exploring on its own that seems to have limitless energy, or a shy one in the back. An accomplished breeder will probably do well to match you with a puppy from their litter, and will be able to tell you straight up if they feel like there's no match for you among the pups. A breeder will know the pup better than you, so I like when they'll make a decision for you.

My guess is that this litter probably isn't of the best quality. I'm pretty picky with Standard Poodles, and I see a lot more ugly, mediocre ones than I see nice ones so I would want to find a really nice breeder who's breeding what I'm looking for first and foremost. Sometimes it's helpful to think that you're buying the breeder, not the dog.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

I would want to know why they decided to breed these two particular dogs. Do they simply have a male and female in the house and decided to put them together and see what happened? Have the dogs been looked at by impartial third parties and decided to be good examples of the breed? (This can be done via showing in sports, working, conformation...) What sort of weaknesses in the sire/dam are trying to be rectified in the breeding of this litter? No dog is perfect, but ideally a sire's weaknesses can be compensated for by the dam's strengths and vice versa.

They should be breeding for the betterment of the breed. That includes health, temperament, maintaining the breed's working roots and everything else that made poodles into the breed today which you've decided you want to make part of your family. We don't care if it's just going to be a pet -- there will always be "pet quality" puppies in well bred litters. But the breeder shouldn't only be breeding for pets. That's kind of ignoring what made the breed great to begin with.

I'm sure you can find a nice dog from a BYB who may live a long, happy, healthy life. Though it's one of those situations where you can express your motivations for getting a dog by giving your money and support to a breeder who, in your opinion, is doing things the right way and doing a service to the breed.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Tamarillo posted:

Hi dawg people, I have a dawg question.

Firstly, this is years away. I just like to research things ages in advance.

My husband grew up with terriers and has always wanted to get one at some point in his adult life. Conversely, I grew up with a GSD and don't tend to acknowledge an animal as a dog unless it's at least up to my knee at the shoulder. However, we were both talking about future dogs again recently and I started looking at different terrier breeds to see if there were any that appealed while also having a temperament/exercise match with our lifestyle.

The main breed that stuck out was the Norwich Terrier. I was wondering if there were any goons - particularly UK goons - who have had any experience with this breed and could give me a better insight into this kind of dog beyond a breed standard listing on a website or a hurf-durf-choose-ur-dog questionnaire.

In terms of how our life is likely to be at the point we'd be considering a dog, we would probably both be working full time or at least until 3, there would probably be a school aged kid or two, we'd have two gentleman cats and a fully fenced yard. We'd probably be doing 30min walks but would be willing to consider dog walking services during the day or a couple of doggy day care sessions per week. I would also be keen to clicker train the heck out of the dog. Basically what would suit us would be a dog that can hang out inside with us and be a well loved member of the family, but without the same high energy needs as larger dogs.

Any insights here (positive or negative!) would be appreciated. I take the responsibility of pet ownership seriously and want to have a realistic view so I know if we can provide the kind of life a dog like this needs to be happy.

TL/DR: omigad gonna buy a maremma so hard right now!1!!!1 SO CUUUUTE~


Good on you for doing so much research in advance. The best thing you could do right now is go out and meet dogs of the breed/breeder you’re interested in and get a feel for what they’re like in person and how much effort they take to not be total terrorists. The internet is an endless supply of information (some good, some bad) but I’m finding that what really matters is hands on experience when getting to know a breed.

Terriers aren’t renowned for being good with kids. But I’m pretty sure Norwichs are comparatively pretty mellow dogs. 30 minutes of exercise a day isn’t really ideal for any breed of dog. Dogs will learn to live with what you give them for the most part, but I would recommend that you plan for at the very least 1 hr a day. Size doesn’t have much bearing on exercise needs either, so don’t expect a smaller dog to need less from you in that regard. It’s true, my Chihuahua needs less exercise than my Australian Shepherd, but a Jack Russell will need more than a Greyhound or Wolfhound.

As I always say, plan for the worst and hope for the best. If you get the world’s most energetic, reactive Norwich, would you be able to manage? If not, you might want to determine if you can a) provide more for the dog or b) look for a less demanding breed. Terriers aren't to be taken lightly, but they're cool little dogs if treated properly.



Three Olives posted:

The puppy has been sleeping in bed with me for the last few months and done fine, until last night. At about 4 AM he woke me up like he does when I sleep in on the weekend and he decides he can't hold it anymore so he stomps on my head until I get up and he was in full on play mode. I thought it was a potty emergency but no, then I checked his food and water bowls and while he was very low on water he still had some and his food bowl was half full, I gave him some more water and he lapped it up and then back in full play trying to get me to do his favorite annoying game of chase me around the house.

Finally I just said no and squirted him with a bottle of water and he stopped and let me pick him up, take him to bed and he went right back to sleep.

It was so weird, the only thing that I can think of is that daylight savings time screwed with his schedule and/or the fact that I had to work this weekend and normally he gets to go to the dog park on the weekend. What I do know is this behavior can't become a thing. Any ideas of what may have caused this and the most effective way to make sure he knows that if he needs to go potty that is fine but he does not get to wake me up to play whenever he wants? Actually the potty thing really isn't fine, I know he can hold his bladder all night so potty should be "Oops, I'm seriously going to have to go potty in the bed if you don't do something now".


First off, squirting him with water was probably a pretty useless punishment. A proper punishment is well linked to the undesirable behavior and will decrease the likelihood of it happening again. If a punishment doesn’t do this it’s at best ineffective and at worst abusive. It’s tough to get the timing and severity right, so in general it’s recommended to avoid positive punishers like that.

I’d be tempted to think that it’s a one-off. If it happens again then I’d probably go back to crating for the night until he’s back to a regular sleeping pattern, then you can allow increased freedom again.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

I don't see any Rottie in there. The ears scream hound to me.

The daycare introductions sound about right. I'd probably introduce her to one dog at first, and contingent on her being alright with it, introduce her to one or two more individually, then two together, three, etc. She'll probably be fine, 'cause puppies are resilient. I'd be more concerned about her getting enough sleep in a daycare environment. If you can bring a crate and keep her in it between play sessions for some napping it'd probably be best. In my experience, puppies can go all day, but they get ornery, demanding and don't learn how to settle if you don't force it a bit when they're young. From what I remember of when my dog was a pup, it normally ended up being a rotation of 1 hr play, 1 hr sleep, 1/2 hr play, 1/2 hr sleep, 2 hrs play, 2 hrs sleep, etc.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

The issues with retractable leashes are:
- you don't get a nice loose leash on them and the dog gets accustomed to pulling
- the handle makes them ungainly and they're difficult to manage with treats, clicker, a purse, shopping bags, whatever
- 15 feet safely straight out in front of you can become 15 feet out to the side and in traffic in the blink of an eye
- they're difficult to retract should the situation call for it, like coming up on a dog who doesn't like other dogs in its face
- your dog gets arbitrarily stopped at different distances depending on things it can't observe/predict

That said, I will walk my dog on a retractable leash from time to time. I do it because she's 99% under vocal control and we're just out on a meandering walk. I attach it to a harness, on which she's allowed to pull a little bit so she doesn't grow accustomed to pulling on a collar.

You could probably use one on a harness in your situation, but be careful.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

soap. posted:

My Aussie, Helo, is just under a year and we just had him neutered five days ago. He can't exercise until the wound is closed (its glued, so no stitch removal) and he is going stir crazy. I've been really working on low key training sessions, he eats his meals out of a Kong Wobbler, and my boyfriend has been home with him every day (he usually comes to work with me) but he is really not doing very well. Its gotten to where the training sessions are ineffective--any stimulation and he's riled up and can't focus on training. He has never been a super food motivated dog, and the lack of exercise has just compounded it. He's stopped listening to commands. His recall was solid, but now he ignores it if he's worked up (just across the house; he's on a leash for elimination). He jumped up and snatched food out of my hand--something he hasn't done since he was very young. We haven't had anyone over because that is really stimulating for him. Obviously this situation is really stressful for him and I'm just hoping someone has a suggestion for something else I can do to help him through the next five days.

Edit: He also has a bunch of chewies that he loves, but even they aren't holding his interest like they used to. Poor Helo.

If I were you, I'd be doing leashed walks around the neighbourhood at this point. His healing should be sufficient to not risk injury if you're careful (I say this as the owner of an energetic Aussie, not as a vet - vets may disagree). Tossing a meal of kibble into the grass is a pretty good way to keep a dog occupied for a good long time too.

Go back to puppy boot camp if you feel like his responses to cues is tanking. Obviously, make boot camp fun and engaging, but don't let things slide. He's entering into rear end in a top hat puppy stage (one of the many rear end in a top hat stages) so I find it's in your best interest to keep working with you a highly reinforcing activity.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Kerfuffle posted:

If you're able to take him on walks, maybe look into a weighted backpack? I wouldn't think it would tear anything, but ask your vet first.

Probably not a good idea to do something like that 'til the dog is fully grown. Not with any regularity at least.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

How old is your GSD? If it's a pup my first thought went to Pano, which is unfortunately very common in growing pups. If it's elbow dysplasia, here's a page to get you started. http://www.joint-health-for-dogs.com/elbow-dysplasia.html

quote:

Medical therapy consists of weight control, moderate exercise, and antiinflammatory medications.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Here's the treatment section of the article:

quote:

Treatment

Treatment of elbow dysplasia is often a combination of medical and surgical management. The objectives of therapy are to relieve pain and maintain limb function as well as to keep the dog at as normal an activity level as possible. Surgical removal of the fragments is recommended before the development of severe arthritis occurs. While the choice of surgical technique (arthroscopy or traditional surgery) may vary, the results are similar. Unfortunately, this disease is progressive. Improvement is expected, but not normality. Medical therapy consists of weight control, moderate exercise, and antiinflammatory medications. Each case is evaluated for the degree of discomfort and arthritic change before a final treatment choice is selected.All immature dogs with fragmentation of the coronoid, OCD, or an ununited anconeal process are surgical candidates. Recent studies suggest that, if an ununited anconeal process is detected early enough, an ulnar osteotomy (cutting the ulna) to relieve the stress may allow the process to unite in a normal fashion. Dogs with mild to moderate incongruity and minimal arthritis have the best prognosis. Even dogs with marked incongruity and large lesions benefit from surgery due to the decrease in pain. Dogs that have a combination of an ununited anconeal process and a fragmented coronoid have a poor prognosis.Mature dogs with mild to moderate arthritis may also be considered for surgery. The objective is to slow the progression of the arthritic change.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Mr. Furious, I'm not sure if this article is listed in the OP, but if it isn't, I would recommend it.

Don't Socialize the Dog! http://www.clickertraining.com/node/3953

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Try a thundershirt (they work for some dogs, not all). Maybe talk to a vet about Gravol or some other sort of med. There are training things you can do, but nothing that'll help in a day's time.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Captain Diarrhoea posted:

I'm doing a lot of reading before we even consider taking this on, starting with this thread. I'm still working through it, but wonder if there are specific areas that should be addressed based on this little background.

I would suggest you make a list (or several) outlining things that you absolutely must have in a dog, would like to have but could take or leave, and absolutely cannot have. That will give you an idea of the type of breed/mix you should look at. Don't fall in love with a breed and try to make it fit into your family -- figure out what your family can deal with and find a breed that will match.

Also write out what you can realistically provide the dog on a day to day, week to week and year to year basis. Can you cover vet bills? Surprise surgery costs? Decent food? Training classes? How much exercise can the dog receive each day, minimum? What will happen if you run into behavioural issues? Who will look after the dog if you travel?

What do you mean by your dad's attitude towards them in particular as working animals is one of your concerns? Will the dog live indoors? Heavy handed training is really a thing of the past -- training methodologies have changed greatly in recent years, so it might be a bit of a hurdle getting someone who's not accustomed to working a dog like that to want to change their approach.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Oh dear. It sounds like your puppy has had a pretty rough start to life. Unfortunately sometimes coprophagia never goes away, but with any luck it will with her.

For peeing, it's possible she has a UTI and that's why you're not seeing any signs. Have you taken her to the vet? When my dog was a pup I brought her to the vet and he prescribed antibiotics despite not being able to examine any urine, and they ended up clearing it right up.

For random accidents, you should really confine the dog in an area where it will endeavor to keep it clean. (Some dogs bought from pet stores, etc never had the option to keep an area clean, and will routinely soil crates with urine and feces. Some of these dogs eat their poo due to poor nutrition or in an effort to clean the area of filth.) Are you crate training the puppy? Will she keep the crate clean, assuming she gets plenty of opportunities to relieve herself outside? Keep her confined when you're not able to give her 100% of your attention, and provide breaks every hour or two. Keep track of her voiding routines each day so you can better predict when she'll need to go. Puppies normally need to go first thing in the morning, after waking up, after eating and after playing. As she grows and proves herself reliable in a crate, begin to expand the confinement area via the use of an ex-pen or baby gates. Follow the housebreaking guide in the OP of this thread.

With proper training and management she'll likely learn to control herself well. I tend to say that the more you restrict a puppy's freedom the more freedom you can provide as the dog grows. It's a pain at first, but it really pays off in the long run.

For the poo eating (coprophagia) your best bet is to always pick it up right away. Make sure she is on a high quality food and that there's nothing medically wrong with her like worms. There are some supplements that you can add to the food to make the poop less tasty to a dog, but those can be hit or miss. I would be ultra vigilant for the next 3-4 months to see if you can break the habit by simply not affording her the opportunity to eat poop, and if that doesn't work begin looking at products specifically designed for your issue.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Might be the unpopular opinion, but I had Cohen off leash almost immediately. Once she was old enough to go to the dog park, and I felt I could trust her (this is important) I let her off leash more often than not. This was probably at about 15 weeks of age. The park I took her to was deep in a valley, far from any roads or places for her to get lost and she was such a velcro puppy I had zero concerns letting her run free.

The proper answer is "when you can comfortably bet $100 that the dog will return when you call it".

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

I can't remember, does he have long hair? Consider trimming the fur between his toes. Also make sure his nails are as short as you can get them, and make sure you keep them that way. Other than that, I would use bathroom rugs or other mats in key areas if you feel it's getting to be a problem.

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a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Not sure about the elbow thing, but I've always interpreted the bunny hopping with the back legs as indicative of unbalanced structure and perhaps discomfort. I think ideally you want to see puppies trotting with a nice extended gait as they move. Maybe other people can chime in with their 2c. Nothing to get too worried about now though. Keep tabs on it as she grows.

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