Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)
I typed up a really long post and hit preview and saw 3 of you beat me to the punch. I'm so proud of you all :3:

Asnorban, pay special attention to ALL's post. It's at the core of the BYB/Puppy Mill issue. By taking this dog, you enable the behavior and thereby encourage it.

DenailTwist posted:

Here's a website that talks more about how to find an ethical dog breeder if it doesn't work out or just for learning:

We've covered this fairly extensively in the OP, and the link you provided really doesn't have very much concrete information.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Etheldreda posted:

She is not very motivated by food or any treats that I've tried.

This usually means you haven't tried enough treats or food yet, or that you're over-feeding. There are some dogs that aren't motivated by food, but they're pretty unusual in my experience, so start trying more novel items. Boiled chicken, hot dogs, string cheese, tuna fish, peanut butter, whatever is dog safe. Have you started playing any crate games? Are you feeding meals in the crate?

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Rufus En Fuego posted:

Excellent. Thanks. He has a Kong in his crate and I put a few treats inside, but they didn't last long. I meant to use peanut butter but I was hesitant about the honey roasted Skippy in the pantry. I'll stop by the store on the way home and grab some plain.

Want to do right by this dog. :black101:

As ALL said, you're doing great. The kitchen timer is there as an enforcer for folks who can't manage their time well (including me). It makes sure that he gets out there at least every two hours, and if the dog is struggling with when to eliminate, he or she will be cued by the timer sound eventually. Sounds like this isn't necessary for you, so keep up the good work!

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Rufus En Fuego posted:

I think we kind of have a combination of that going on. Yes, he's never unsupervised and we're able to catch him when he's giving signals, but sometimes this means taking him out five times an hour. He has access to water at all times (except at night) but when he drinks he tends to suck down as much water as he can so he's pretty much peeing constantly for the first half hour following. Do I just keep on him and eventually his ability to hold it will increase, or should I limit how much he drinks at a time? I don't want him to think I'll be able to take him out every ten minutes or whatever.

Depends on the age. For now I would recommend just sticking with what's working. Puppies tend to drink a whole lot, and that's fine and it's good for them, provided they aren't drinking until they throw up and it isn't causing issues with housetraining.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

who cares posted:

:words

Some dogs just never care very much about toys, and that can be okay. I would try a flirt pole. Check the training thread for some details there - alifeless built her own not that long ago.

The one thing that bothers me a little bit about your post is the bit about clicker training and spitting out the treat. That suggests to me that you haven't "charged" the clicker properly. How did you introduce the clicker and build that relationship with the dog?

The other advice that I would offer is that you need to be very careful about the other dogs Laika meets until she becomes better socialized. Keep in mind that everyone believes their dog/child/whatever is a prime example of good citizenry, and we are rarely correct in these beliefs. So these people, and for the moment, you, are not qualified to evaluate these dogs as potential playmates. The only advice I can offer is to use this as a motivator to learn more. The training thread has some good book recommendations and places to start.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

toplitzin posted:

No one seemed to cover this, but does anyone have a guide for wanting to adopt a kitten AND a puppy together?

At the same time? I think the guide is really short. It reads: "Don't."

I have little to no experience with cats, but taking two young animals on at the same time seems like self-masochism. I personally wouldn't even consider two puppies, let alone a puppy and a kitten.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Don't have a lot of time to respond to all of your questions here, and I'm sure some others can address them, but I wanted to highlight one thing regarding the rescue you're looking at. You're correct that 40 dogs is way too many for a single place, there's no way those dogs could possibly be healthily monitored unless they have a significant staff, and there's no evidence of that. Their front page looks nice, but there's no substance. In addition, they have two links, one to a generic ACD webpage, and one to a local trainer that they are presumably partnering with or promoting. That trainer is believer in dominance theory and uses positive punishment techniques after glancing at his page.

If it were me, I would look elsewhere.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Probably better off posting in the vet student thread, most of us here are just dog nerds, with a couple of us working or volunteering as trainers. Your situation is a little out of our league.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

nesbit37 posted:

housetraining stuff

I assume you've read the guide in the OP. If this is the case, just substitute the grass area for whatever is acceptable, and allow extra time to take the elevator and extra time to wait outside. Dogs learn to go on certain textures, so the gravel isn't going to give you any leg up on housetraining unless your chosen bathroom happens to be a graveled area as well. Waiting for the first few eliminations on the pavement may take a while, though, so be patient. Once you get over that hurdle, you shouldn't have any issues.


pat_b posted:

Any idea how to get her out and about again? She stops taking treats well before her threshold, so coaxing her into going farther seems impossible.

This means you're asking for too much and doing more harm than good. Take a step back and lower your expectations. Bring super yummy treats, and go as far as you can while the dog is still taking treats. Then hang out there for a little bit, then go back inside and call it good. Settle in for a long haul because there are no quick fixes here.

Canuckistan posted:

Service dog stuff

I'm a little confused as to the situation you're describing. How old is the dog and why is it being retired from a companion dog program? Is it suitable as a companion dog for your son? I'm also confused as to how these (candidate?) companion dogs aren't house trained unless they're very, very young.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Canuckistan posted:

We're going to adopt a dog and they need people to adopt dogs. Also I see them every day on my way to work and they're cute :3:


No, they're not lab animals. They're teaching animals for future service animal trainers.

That makes more sense. I remember reading that Beagles are the favorite for most lab and kennel work, I think due to personalities, but I could be misremembering. I'm still confused by their process. I would think that the best way to teach individuals is via an internship with an actual service dog organization, but I have no experience with that industry. One of our trainers at the HS does have experience with service dog and SAR training, however, so if you'd be interested in a second opinion I could probably get one.

I would caution you that this sounds like a pretty major project to me. It might be very smooth, but this dog will have 8 years of behavior that it's built up that may not be compatible with your home and living situation. As long as you're comfortable with dedicating a great deal of time in retraining, go hog wild.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

fookolt posted:

Are there any good links or resources to look at for what to do to help a rescue/shelter dog become less shy/timid? We just got a 9 year old sheltie, but it's almost eerie how submissive she is. It's not like she is afraid like I've seen some rescue/shelter dogs because she'll always come to you if you call her and she's totally fine on walks. It's just when you try to pet her, her tail goes down and her ears/face plunge down and she just basically freezes :smith:

I'm sure it's just something that takes time as it's a huge transition for her, but is there anything we can do to help (or stuff we shouldn't do)?

Read this for a quick start: http://www.boulderhumane.org/online-resources/understanding-and-helping-shy-or-nervous-dog

Some of this might be adapting to a new home, so give it a few weeks. In the meantime, I would be very careful of spooking her. To start, don't reach overhanded to pet her -- this can be intimidating. Palm up, reach out slowly but deliberately underneath her face so she can see the hand coming. If she shies away from you, don't force it. Keep some good treats handy and reward every instance of touch contact with treats. Especially the ones initiated by the dog.

Training some very basic tricks will also do a lot to build confidence as well.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Boffo Beach Babe!!! posted:

What's the verdict on pee-pads?

My roommate has taken to covering his floor with pee-pads and hes happy with "training the dog to go pee in my room" mind you, our apartment is a tiny nyc pad; 2 bedrooms with a connecting hallway. First of all, it doesn't sound very hygenic; second, it's totally goony to be okay with having your room smell like pee all the time (he says, "i'll throw out the pads!"); and third, isn't that just encouraging the dog to go inside and basically excusing himself from taking the dogs on walks?

I really don't want out apartment to smell like unwashed dog and pee...

Pee-pads are generally not appropriate for house-training except in very specific circumstances. In those circumstances, my personal opinion is that those situations are not appropriate for dog ownership in the first place. So, in short, we're against them.

There is an extensive house-training guide in the OP.

MrFurious fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Jun 27, 2012

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

tonic316 posted:

I thought puppies (8-10 weeks) go to the bathroom every 2-3 hours? What are people supposed to do when they're sleeping if they have to be taken outside every time?

Wake up and take them out. Think of a puppy as an infant and a dog as a permanent toddler. This is what you're signing up for.

quote:

Edit: Also how do you guys feel about PetSmarts training programs?

PetSmart recently revamped their training program about a year or two ago. What they claim to preach and teach these days is much more in line with a good positive reinforcement trainer, but I haven't seen any of them use a clicker so far, and I've checked with 4-5 of them in a couple of different states. I'll also say that each store is very different. Some of them teach by the corporate method, and others don't, so it's very possible you'll find a force based trainer at PetSmart. If you're considering it, I'd ask if you can observe a class first and take the list I provided in the OP for a good trainer and grade them.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

tonic316 posted:

I talked to one of the people there and they say its all positive reinforcement training. But it is in a group setting with other dogs. They do have a clicker class that teaches tricks with a clicker. I presume by "forced based trainer" you mean not positive reinforcement?

Rixatrix covered this pretty well already (as usual). Be aware that lots of lousy trainers call themselves positive trainers, just as force based trainers can and do hold CPDTs.

Force based typically refers to trainers who use correction based training and generally do not use treats. For example, they'll teach leash walking with leash and collar pops, usually on a choke or prong collar, the idea being that if the dog wants to avoid the leash pop, they'd better not stray ahead of you.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

soap. posted:

Pretty sure you can begin house-training this young, so I doubt it's that "his bladder isn't connected to his brain." I was just including the intact male thing as a potential cause--he certainly humps, so I thought there might be some correlation. I just want to know if there is something I can do to make it more clear to him. I definitely do scoop him up and take him out, that isn't a problem.

Like I said, all I want to be sure I'm doing everything I can to make it easy for him.

It's probably an age thing, but there are a few things to check off the list.
#1 - Make sure you're cleaning his piddle spots inside with an enzymatic cleaner.
#2 - Make sure he's not going in the same spot every time. If he is, and it's, for example, a rug, take away the rug.
#3 - Make sure your entrance back inside is relatively boring. Over-stimulation can be an issue here with some dogs.

These are just the items off the top of my head. If something consistent is occurring, try and find the pattern and break it or understand it.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

uptown posted:

-My dog will be coming with his first round of vaccinations. Does that mean he is immediately able to hang out with other dogs, or do I have to wait until all the vaccinations are done? How far apart do I space the vaccs?
-I'm aware that taking a dog outside constantly and being extremely excited/supportive is the best way to housetrain, but does that mean I have to get up in the middle of the night to take the puppy outside? This isn't a problem at all for me, but if it is the case, should I be getting up at regularly spaced intervals, waking puppy up, and then going out for a pee?
-I plan on crate training, but I do want my dog to sleep in bed with me. Can I crate him during the day, if necessary, and let him stay in bed at night, or will that hinder his recognition of the crate as "his" place?

1 - You don't schedule these, your veterinarian does. Typically every 4 weeks starting at 8 weeks. If you have the first round of shots, you're generally safe to be around other dogs. Historically vets have recommended until the end of the round of shots to be super-duper sure, but these days the training advice is that you are just as safe after the first round as the last, provided they're coming on schedule. The socialization window that you miss out on between 8 and 16 weeks is enormously critical, so your best bet is to enroll in puppy kindergarten ASAP.

2 - Housetraining guide is in the OP. Getting up in the middle of the night is a judgement call. I did it, and I would do it again -- I think the "where to go" is more critical early on than the "when to go".

3 - Yes this is fine. Just make sure you properly introduce the crate and do a bunch of crate training games.


Tiny Faye posted:

mouthing/nipping issues

Yelping doesn't always work with all dogs, especially if they didn't spend the first 8-10 weeks with their mother and siblings -- this is where and when the most important bite inhibition is learned. It's also important that you allow them to mouth and train this behavior so that you can actually teach them bite inhibition.

Although our long term goal, as owners, is not to have them mouth us at all, if we jump straight to that cold turkey and are successful, our dogs haven't learned how hard to bite a thing to get a reaction. This means that when your dog is 12 and your 3 year old niece jumps on it because she thinks it's a warm fuzzy bean bag, she gets 15 stitches instead of a rude correction (this is a totally hypothetical but entirely plausible fabrication).

Make sure that when you get mouthed, redirect to a chew toy or give yourself a time out (this means you remove yourself from the situation, you never crate or pen the dog -- this is how you poison the crate). Start with hard bites or mouthing and steadily lower the criteria for the situation, giving time outs for more and more gentle mouthing over several weeks. If you're working on mouthing issues, I strongly recommend you work in an area that's puppy safe and keep your dog tethered to something sturdy so they can't continue the game as you leave the room.

Incredulous Red posted:

Rude puppy problems

It's hard to tell from the brief description, but this sounds like a typical energetic puppy who is slightly under-socialized. If you haven't taken any Puppy Kindergarten classes yet, I would encourage you to do so.

In the mean time, focus on more exercise -- tired puppies don't have the energy to be assholes, but you also need to do some training. Pure exercise will just up her capability to be a prick. Check out Control Unleashed -- if you can find a class, fantastic, but if you just get the book, what you want to focus on are the mat work exercises by Karen Overall. These sound crazy, and you will feel crazy doing them, but I promise these are fantastic for teaching your dog some self control, you just have to drill them and be diligent about practicing.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Asnorban posted:

Does this apply to our puppy barking incessantly at the cats when he wants to play? It is the perfect storm of variables that lead to it. He never barks except when he is incredibly hyped up and desperately wanting to play. He always approaches them first and gets submissive in front of them to try to coax one into playing. When that doesn't work (they just stare at him or turn away), he gets in front of them, butt still in the air with front towards the ground, and barks. And barks. And barks. One of the cats occasionally gives in and gives chase which I know reinforces Bran's behavior, but the other just walks away or stares at a wall which doesn't work at all. We thought they may paw at him and he would eventually learn, but after a month that doesn't seem to be the case.

So: remove the cats from the room, let him bark it out in the hopes that the cats will teach him that it doesn't work, or remove him from the room the cats are in?

Sounds like you nailed it. One cat is doing the right thing, the other is eventually reinforcing it, which is going to make it progressively worse. I don't own cats, but I would imagine that removing two cats from the room is significantly more difficult than removing the puppy, but if you can manage it, it's what I would recommend.

If you need to remove the dog, instead, I'd have him drag a short (4-6 ft) leash around the house, otherwise you're likely to get a game of chase instead, which isn't helping your problem.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)
Yep -- She's got the relaxation protocol by Karen Overall in there. We practice that where I volunteer with a lot of the dogs in our behavior modification program that are just really impulsive little snots. I've seen this do an incredible amount of good, but you have to work the program.

EDIT:
Found a google hit: http://www.dogdaysnw.com/doc/OverallRelaxationProtocol.pdf
So you don't need to buy the book if you don't want to (although it is a fantastic book in its own right as well).

MrFurious fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jul 10, 2012

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Braki posted:

I don't think this is really true. The reason puppies need extra sets of vaccines is because we're waiting for the maternal antibodies to decline. If the levels of these antibodies are up above a certain value, the vaccines don't really work. It varies between puppies exactly when these go down, but they generally happen between 8 and 16 weeks. Once the maternal antibodies have declined, it makes them really vulnerable, which is why the sets of vaccines are done 4 weeks apart, to minimize this susceptible period. One puppy might be susceptible right at 8 weeks, and then we vaccinate and she's ok, but then the other one might have had too many maternal antibodies for the 8 week vaccines to be effective yet. So no, they're not just as safe after the first as they are after the last.

Obviously I am not a vet, and perhaps I chose my words poorly. I realize that the reason for the iterations is waiting for the mom's antibodies to wane, but my understanding is that this is only the case in puppies who haven't been weaned by 8 weeks and are still nursing, which in my experience is few even from a breeder, and almost never in the case of a shelter or rescue adoption.

I also understand that there is a very small, but tangible window there where, if the stars aligned, the animal can be susceptible to a disease vector. The argument I am making is that the long term health risk of the animal due to poor socialization at the critical life stages far outweighs the minor risk of disease in a young puppy, provided that the owner is properly supervising their animal and structuring it's outings. I am by no means suggesting that after the first round of shots you should turn the dog loose off leash on open hiking trails, simply that they should begin to meet other dogs and people in various, but safe, surroundings and begin attending puppy classes.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)
^^ well stated

guarded by bees the idea is that if socialize your dog around other vaccinated animals, you are at very low risk. If you want to know more about appropriate socialization exercises take a look at Dunbar's free books linked in the OP.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Braki posted:

This isn't true. The puppy is only absorbing antibodies for the first days, if even that. Afterwards, all it's getting from the milk is nutrients, so it doesn't matter if the puppy was weaned at 5 weeks or 8 weeks or whatever.

But yes, everything enelrahc said too. It is fine to take the puppy around other vaccinated animals, but avoid dog parks and areas where there could be unvaccinated animals.

Now I'm confused -- in your first post you indicated the presence of maternal antibodies. Where else would these come from if not the milk? Are the present at birth and stick around that full 8 weeks?

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Fascinating, thank you very much for the clarification. Consider me properly learned. I believe we're all in agreement about how we handle the first 16 weeks though, correct?

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Kimasu v2.0 posted:

This is my first time posting in PI, and first I just wanted to say that I read through most of the this thread and found it to be a great learning experience.

I have decided that I am ready to own a dog. I never considered myself a dog person, but spending more time around the my friends and family that own dogs have warmed me up to the idea. Unfortunately I have also learned, from reading this thread and other resources on the internet, that most of the dogs I've been around are not properly trained and I am determined to do it right.

We have two kids, a twenty-month old and an eight-year old, and we live in a two-story house with a medium sized fenced in grass yard. My youngest son has been around dogs since he was three months old. My father-in-law watches him during the day and he has an older Shih Tzu. My oldest son has a Basset Hound at his mother's house (his mother and I have both divorced and remarried).

I am looking at getting a smaller dog that we can take on walks and play with a little in the backyard, but for the most part I want it to be able to hang out around the house with us and be a part of the family.

My first concern is that my wife and I work 9-5 jobs, although we are both able to come home for lunch. For that reason, I was planning on adopting an older shelter/rescue dog because I have learned that we do not have the time to dedicate to a puppy. However, this thread made me worry that we will not be able to spend adequate time with the dog, even with both of us coming home mid-day for a potty break and quick play time.

I have seen a couple of Pugs and Boston Terriers available and I think they would be a good fit for our lifestyle and living situation. I don't know if it's common everywhere around the USA, or just because of where we live, but 90% of the dogs available at the shelters are some type of Pit Bull mix or Chihuahuas, neither of which seem like appropriate choices.

My second concern is that we currently have baby gates on the stairs to keep my toddler from killing himself, and I think they'll work just fine for the dogs. Once my son is older and the gates come down, would either breed I'm considering have trouble with the stairs? I want to get a smaller, lower activity dog, but I worry that they'll have to be carried up the stairs or potentially injure themselves on them.

You guys will be fine. You're right, most people don't train their dogs at all, and it's really frustrating, but there's very little you can do about it aside from serve as an example.

Dogs can adapt to the 9-5 work day, just make sure that they are getting appropriate amounts of exercise for the time that you are around.

The stairs are not a concern at all, I wouldn't worry about it. Lastly -- I think you're making an assumption that a smaller dog is going to be a less energetic dog, and I would not agree with this (nor would anyone who has ever owned a Jack Russell). I'd just shoot for a low energy dog and not worry about size unless it's a concern for some other reason.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

dexter6 posted:

Feel free to ask me to post in a different thread, or start my own, but I figured the new dog thread would be best for this type of question.

We are looking for a new Vet for our 7 year old Maltese, Charlie. Charlie has always gone to Banfield, but after our most recent experience (*DRAMA*), I want to find a local one that isn't part of a big chain. But, I'm concerned that now I'm going to be paying an arm and a leg.

So:
1. What should I look for in a vet (I already read the OP) / Anyone know of a good vet in Arlington VA?
2. Do other vets offer Banfield-like health plans?
3. If no to #2, are there national health plans for dogs?
4. Should I not care about a health plan and just pay as I go?

Thanks in advance!

I think this is mostly a question about pet insurance if I'm understanding you correctly. You should look into some of the plans yourself, because this is something that's undergone a lot of changes in the last couple of years.

In my experience, however, almost all of the pet insurance plans out there don't cover anything that they deem pre-existing, which will be literally almost anything short of getting hit by a car or breaking a leg. Any health concerns that develop with age and are expensive to treat are going to fall under this category and your insurance won't cover it. The exception to this, is some puppy plans that you have to purchase immediately upon getting your animal, and it's obviously too late for those.

My personal feeling is that it's more cost effective to treat it yourself and try to keep your pet healthy, but this requires that you have some savings put away for things like this (and if you don't you're not being a responsible owner -- all the excuses in the world don't matter, it's part of the job).

That said -- there may be some newer options on the insurance route than when I looked a couple of years ago, so if anyone has anything worth adding to the OP, please post.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

uptown posted:

housetraining and leash stuff

You're doing fine with the housetraining. The leash stuff is easy to deal with. If you're using a clicker for training already, great, this is a perfect time to put it to use again (if you're not that's okay, but it's definitely recommended).

Put the leash on and encourage the dog to come close to you. Make play motions and sounds, kissy noises, whatever. If you get a step or two towards you, click and treat. Do this throughout the day over and over again, gradually raising the bar and you'll be reinforcing that whenever the dog is close to you on the leash, Good Things happen.

notsoape posted:

Honestly, I find opinions like this rather classist. What is the minimum that owners should have put away for canine emergencies? $1000? What if the dog needs surgery that would cost $1500 and they can't afford it - are they irresponsible owners yet?

Don't mean to rant at you, but it's one of my little bugbears

You make some excellent points, and it's obviously a bit of a slippery slope. Everyone has their financial limits, and if you've reached them, then you've done the best you can, and it's also an emotional call on quality of life versus the cost as well.

My complaints are directed largely at younger owners, but other folks who fit this role as well. Young twenty-somethings who are just out on their own and living paycheck to paycheck but who really want a dog. That's great, but realistically, they can't afford one. They have zero money to spare for basic preventative care let alone training. So they just adopt a stance of denial and get the dog anyways, or worse, they view the animal as relatively disposable.

Without derailing the thread too much more, I think we can all agree that if you can't afford to sock away a small portion of your paycheck for minor emergency money, regardless of the amount, you are being a crappy owner. You should be doing it for other things too, not just for your dog.

Larry Horseplay posted:

More housetraining stuff

Sounds like the beginnings of separation anxiety. Make sure you're practicing all of the crate games you should be to start. I also had my first exposure to some SA dogs in my volunteer work this weekend -- I'm going to ask if it's okay for me to circulate some of the training exercises they work to alleviate that, so if so, I'll post what I can.

In regards to the potty spot, my personal, non-veterinary opinion is that as long as you're not letting him sniff, trod through or eat poop down there, you're probably fine. Just keep the trips to the grass brief and safe, and the risk is low. You also don't want to be keeping him totally cooped up inside either. You should be starting puppy kindergarten and taking walks as well. This is his socialization period.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Not a vet, but seems unlikely to me -- it's usually a stinky, pudding diarrhea thing. The fact that the food is totally undigested (malabsorption I think -- vet students?) doesn't rule out bacterial, but can be a large variety of things, from scary to not.

uptown I'm interested to see what the vet said, just curious. Hope things are okay.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

guarded by bees posted:

Is there anything I should bring with me to make the three hour drive to my house easier on him? I have the carrier set up in the car, a variety of cookies for him, some stuff to chew on, a blanket to cover the crate if needed, and water containers. I've also got pee-pads, a wet-bag for trash, poop bags, and calm CDs in the car. I have two cats, should I bring something that smells like them along with me?

Way to go!

I'd skip the pee-pads, there shouldn't be any reason to need them and their scent is likely to encourage peeing on them, which will likely not be anywhere you would want.

I'd also try with the music off first -- some dogs don't like it. I'd also try and get a t-shirt or something that has smelled like the other puppies if you can. Typically a good breeder will ask you for an old undershirt or something that smells like you, leave it in the puppies area for a couple of weeks and then take it back with you. This way they get used to your smell and they also bring some smells from home to keep them calm. Otherwise you're well set. Good luck!

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

A Magical Unicorn posted:

Please understand that I didn't know what the trade-offs were when buying from a "backyard breeder".

It's covered relatively extensively in the OP.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

uptown posted:

Chewing and mouthing

When he chews on your hair, kick him out of the bed and STAY IN BED. Otherwise he'll learn it's how to get you moving.

With regard to the toys, I recommend that you not leave them all out and about. They get boring that way. Find a box or closet to store them in or something, then it's always slightly novel when it comes out.

I'm sure he also has a schedule for when the zoomies come out. I recommend trying to exercise him prior to that time when possible. The rest of it is just that Puppies Are Assholes.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

guarded by bees posted:

Question time:

I've been letting him play when he's awake for about an hour to an hour and a half (with bursts in there that are very bouncy, and moments of calm) before potty/naptime. Is this an okay thing for me to do, or should I try to get him to nap earlier? And, am I alright to continue letting him sleep until he wakes up?

You're fine. Just make sure he's getting enough sleep. Puppies should be sleeping something like 16 hours a day or something stupid like that. Just like babies, they're growing like crazy.

I'd also try to avoid too much jumping or bouncing -- keep in mind that his joints are still very much in development. I've never seen any hard evidence or rules, but the general advice is to avoid activities that are going to be especially rough on their joints before about 2 years of age.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

guarded by bees posted:

What are the reasons to hold off on neutering? I see a lot of this where I live, but no one has given me a consistent answer. Is it better for their health, or is it important for something else?

Re: the jumping/hopping, you're fine, I wouldn't worry about it.

As far as the neutering goes, as you can see, I'm not sure there's a consensus among the vet community about which way is preferred right now. If you see a lot of intact dogs in your neighborhood, though, I would be flat out astonished if that were because they were well informed owners. All of the vets I have talked to have recommended early spays at this point, for what it's worth.

ALL: Do you have a link to the source for the osteosarcoma stuff? I'd like to read more.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Follow your vets advice. Socialization at this stage is utterly critical to the long term health of your dog, in my opinion.

In regards to the neutering stuff, just to clarify, the argument is over when not if.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)
Smear peanut butter along the side of the tub, or have him lick it off a spatula while you get him wet and rub him down (best with two people). Use super high value special treats for bath time and they'll have a blast. If I say "bathtime" my dog literally jumps into the tub.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Gerdalti posted:

This is Barney

For the biting - put a stick of butter in the freezer. Rub it on your hands and arms before interacting. This will encourage licking and should be praised heavily. In addition, tether him to something sturdy so he can't continue the game as you disengage.

For the energy issues, look into some treat toys. Frozen kongs with kibble inside are also good. Consider feeding out of these as well. These are good mental stimulators that should wear out his brain.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Gerdalti posted:

Interesting (and messy) suggestion. Worth a shot. Thanks.

We actually feed him out of one of those food balls. It helps, but only some, it's mostly stopped the "eat all my food in 3 seconds" thing. It takes him about 5 minutes to go through his full serving (he's on 2.5 cups a day, 1 at breakfast and dinner, .5 at lunch).

You might consider something a little harder -- we graduated to this one eventually. Extremely durable, for what it's worth.
http://www.amazon.com/Omega-Paw-Tricky-Treat-Large/dp/B0002DK26M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1343662846&sr=8-2&keywords=dog+treat+ball

On the topic of eating, I was talking to some vets recently and they suggested that people using raised food bowls to prevent bloat in larger breeds actually seems to increase the risk, rather than reduce it. Vets -- any input here?

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Yuncemil posted:

So for those following what I posted a page or so back... what do we do overnight? The last time we know he went poop was about 2:45 yesterday afternoon. He has not been away from us since. This means he has not pooped for 31 hours now. We are taking him outside at least once an hour to see if he will go but he isn't. Unless he goes in the next hour or two, my wife and I are both going to have to go to bed. What do we do with him overnight?

Crate. If you can't crate, at least confine in a cleanup area unless you're willing to take the risk.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

guarded by bees posted:

We're doing okay. The week was pretty rough, and I feel like I'm failing him somehow, but the potty stuff makes me really really happy. He'll run to the door 4/5 times, and when he needs to have his 4am poo he yips once in his crate and waits. He runs SO FAST to the door, does a dance because he has to go so desperately, then rushes back to me when he's done and makes a sleepy face.

The biggest issue we're having lately is inappropriate chewing and he's been a little barkey when he's frustrated or assertive. I am trying to curb this with distraction, but I'm worried that I'm encouraging or further frustrating him.

Bratty barking should be ignored. Put on your best snooty face, make like a tree and stare at the ceiling.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Regarding the friends house, I would hazard to guess that she was very highly aroused at your friends place. Lots of new smells and people, and she is still a puppy. It was likely a mistake where she just couldn't hold it. I'd give her a chance to potty outside before entering the friends house, or anywhere else. I also recommend you proof her to other locations -- PetSmart is good for this. Leash her up, get her to go outside the store(try to use grass, dogs learn textures, not context), then head inside and wander for a bit.

The problem with the bell is that they figure out quickly that they get to go outside, which can be rewarding in and of itself. As I recommend in the guide, give them a brief period of time (30-60 seconds) to eliminate, and then head back in. This will result in frequent, short trips for a little while, but pretty soon they'll get bored because they don't actually get to romp out there. That's my experience, anyways.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Direwolf posted:

How do I wean my new rescue off table scraps?

This is mostly conjecture, but I just adopted a 7 year old sheltie mix who's heavily overweight, gets very excited/ begs for human food, and is uninterested in dog food almost entirely. I've had her for 2 days now, she drinks water and poops/is housetrained, but has no desire to eat dog food even when she's hungry. So far I've tried 2 different flavors of Blue Buffalo, the only way I've gotten her to eat any has been shredding half a hot dog and burying it in the dry, and that's not something i want to make a habit.
My theory is that her weight and begging (she doesn't know commands but she'll balance on her back feet standing for a treat) are from her prior owners feeding her table scraps as food. Any suggestions on how to get her interested in dog food?

Probably going to have to use stepping stones. You're on the right track, but here are some other things to try. Portion out her food into a ziplock, then take something she loves (in this case hot dog), and slice it in half, stick it in the ziplock with the kibble and put it in the fridge for a few hours. Remove the hot dog and feed the kibble.

You can also pour a little bit of warm water on the kibble and let it soak briefly (a couple of minutes is plenty). This will draw out some of the flavors and aromas from the contents.

Work towards regular dry kibble slowly and you should be able to get there, just be patient. I wouldn't make changes more often than every 3-4 days.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

In your shoes, I would wait for the work situation to settle out, but I am an ultra-cautious individual, so it's ultimately up to you.

I will challenge the assertion that you need a small dog in an apartment. Look into specific breeds and their requirements. I personally think that Great Danes are fine in reasonable (i.e. not studio) apartments and that JRT's are terrible for them. Look into some breed selectors and try and figure out what will fit your lifestyle best.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply