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This is the thread I been talking about for talking about the hideous depressing awful quality of writing and reporting these days. I know the thread title says NFL but I guess college writing can go here too if it's anywhere near as bad? That would be fine. There seems to be a lot less of it though. This thread has two purposes which is a phrase I put in bold because it's important 1. Who actually has the inside scoop and who does not This is the original idea I had for a thread. I'd like us to keep track of how often we see certain reporters getting things right or wrong. Free agency and the time just after free agency is a great opportunity to round up various writers' predictions, speculation and other forms of horse poo poo and see how horse-lovely they are. So! If you see a writer claim something, whether from a source or speculation: post it here! Screen cap or copy-paste. If someone says they hear Manning is only considering Miami and Phoenix, quote it. If someone says the Bills are the frontrunner for Mario Williams, post it. Afterward we'll round up the predictions and see who was actually right or nearly-right and who is loving retarded (Mike Florio). Bonus points for people who break news first (NFL Network) 2. Who cannot write worth a drat Like the horrible posts from other forums thread, except sadder because I'm reduced to eating the memory of ramen while Peter King lays down $6 and 600 words on some mass-produced farmed-on-the-blood-of-Ecuadorian cup of dog piss. When you see really awful writing (Florio) post it here and we can laugh at it. Bonus points for a thrilling saga about a poor person asking you for money and you waddling off to tell the internet about it in a column that somehow spans 11 pages and nobody questions this. Okay maybe this thread doesn't get so many posts at the beginning of free agency because it's all news and this is not a news-posting thread or a debating news thread (important, note the bold please) but I trust we have enough critics and nerds and nerd-critics in the forum to keep it going with bad writing and laughable "inside scoops" (Florio, Florio, Florio)
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Mar 14, 2012 01:27
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I substituted the homeless-guy anecdote last minute but those are my two favorite Peter King Memories. What a worthless loving tool
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Mar 14, 2012 03:16
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Okay since I have a story I don't wanna write here is my first stab at really evaluating how accurate one of these guys is. For your thrills and chills, Adam Schefter's last day of tweets are pasted below. I've reorganized his tweets into three groups, as described...............in the key. My key: bold: True statements italic: Unconfirmed plain font: Retweets he shouldn't get credit for !!!: Breaking news/accurate predictions ???: Inaccurate predictions The Truths Bears WR Brandon Marshall was involved in another incident that could lead to an NFL review. More shortly at ESPN.com. Reggie Wayne re-signing a three-year deal with Colts. Agreement reached. Rams and free-agent cornerback Cortland Finnegan reached agreement on a five-year deal worth about $50 million. Saints announced today that they have agreed to terms on a one-year contract with QB Chase Daniel. Cardinals are expected to release OT Levi Brown, whom Arizona selected with the fifth pick in the 2007 draft ahead of RB Adrian Peterson. Raiders plan to release TE Kevin Boss, who last summer signed a four-year, $16 million deal, including $6 million guaranteed. Redskins released safety Oshiomogho Atogwe and fullback Mike Sellers. Vincent Jackson deal in Tampa: 5 yrs, $55.55 million, including $26 million guaranteed, $36 million in 1st 3 yrs, $26 million in 1st 2 yrs. Vincent Jackson agreed to five-year deal in Tampa with Bucs. There is an agreement between free-agent WR Josh Morgan and Redskins. So two new WRs: Morgan and Pierre Garcon, so far. Eddie Royal on deck. Red Bryant re-signing with Seattle: 5 years, $35 million, including $14.5 million gtd. !!! Now Redskins on verge of signing 49ers WR Josh Morgan, too, to go along with Pierre Garcon.. Pierre Garcon posted on his FB page he's signing with Washington. Free-agent CB Cortland Finnegan scheduled to visit Rams on Wednesday. Finnegan could rejoin Jeff Fisher. Free agent defensive end Mario Williams plans to visit the Buffalo Bills tonight. Filed to ESPN: Dolphins trade WR Brandon Marshall to Bears for 3rd-round pick in 2012 and 3rd-round pick in 2013. Marshall rejoins Cutler. Chargers have agreed to a new three-year contract with center Nick Hardwick. Bears agreed to terms with CB Tim Jennings on a two-year contract. QB Jason Campbell reached agreement with the Bears on a one-year deal. 49ers announced they have signed CB Perrish Cox to a two-year contract. Chargers will release OT Marcus McNeill this afternoon, according to his agent, Alvin Keels. Eagles agreed to 3-year contract extension with OL Todd Herremans through 2016. One less CB on the market: New York Giants reached agreement with cornerback Terrell Thomas. Filed to ESPN: 49ers reached agreement on a one-year deal with wide receiver Randy Moss. This is not to make room for Peyton Manning: Texans cut quarterback Matt Leinart. The Perhapses With Jason Campbell taking backup QB spot in Chicago, that leaves Kyle Orton's main option as the Dallas Cowboys. Former Texans OT Eric Winston has visits lined up with the Dolphins, Chiefs and Rams. CIN, DEN, JAX, MIN, TB only teams in NFL that did not take the additional room in 2012 from WAS/DAL penalty. Those 5 teams get room in 2013. Redskins do not yet have an agreement with free-agent WR Eddie Royal, but both sides working to get a deal done. Sal Pal reports Eagles finalizing contract extension with Trent Cole. Numbers are set, just working on language. Expected to be done soon. And now the 49ers also jumping in on Chiefs free-agent CB Brandon Carr. San Francisco, Washington and Tampa Bay all pursuing free-agent CB Eric Wright. Ravens DE Cory Redding, in talks with Indianapolis, scheduled to visit Colts tonight. Titans DL Jason Jones to visit Rams. In addition to trying to sign WR Vincent Jackson, Buccaneers trying to sign G Carl Nicks. Two top free agents could be Tampa bound. ??? And WR Robert Meachem also scheduled to visit the Buffalo Bills, right along with Mario Williams. Calvin Watkins reporting that TE Martellus Bennett to visit Giants. Laurent Robinson is going to visit Jacksonville tonight. More visits: chad Henne expected to visit Jacksonville, Kyle Orton expected to visit Dallas. Free-agent safety Brandon Meriweather plans to visit the Denver Broncos tonight. Despite speculation that Houston still could make a run at Peyton Manning, the Texans have no plans to pursue the free-agent QB. As Tennessee plots its push for QB Peyton Manning, the Titans plan to host a visit for former Vikings Pro Bowl G Steve Hutchinson. Titans were preparing to make run at Houston's Mario Williams, and now organziation has shifted its focus to try to sign Peyton Manning. Bears free-agent safety Brandon Meriweather now planning to visit Washington on Wednesday. Raiders free agent WR Chaz Schilens is visiting 49ers, and Rams free agent WR Brandon Lloyd also is expected to visit San Francisco. The You're Boring On Twitter Get Out of the Way of Horse_eBooks Big move in San Diego to help replace Vincent Jackson. RT @espn_afcwest: Chargers add Robert Meachem es.pn/xIfiXg 2h John Clayton John Clayton @ClaytonESPN Carlos Rogers re-signing means the 49ers will have all 11 starters back on defense. Retweeted by Adam Schefter When free agency started today, Raiders had a league-low $639.966 worth of salary-cap space. Breaking just for the fun of it: Monta Ellis traded to Bucks, Stephen Jackson to Warriors. Just because. Pierre Garcon Pierre Garcon @PierreGarcon85 I wanted you all to hear it from me 1st before u saw it on the news... I will be signing with the Washington... fb.me/1JhfoAIzY Retweeted by Adam Schefter ESPN's NFL Live kicks off at the same time as the free-agent signing period. Please tune in for the latest developments. Todd Archer Todd Archer @toddarcher Filed to @ESPNDallas From me and @calvinwatkins - source says Cowboys release Terence Newman. Retweeted by Adam Schefter First reported by @JayGlazer, Saints re-signed WR Marques Colston to a five-year deal worth close to $40 million, inc $19 million gtd. In reply to Jay Glazer ---- Whew. So here's my snapshot of Schefter: reliable and therefore a little late with the news. He broke one story before the official announcement; that's not much. Seems to be correct almost all the time. Relies on official team announcements, which naturally come later than inside-source breaking news. Trustworthy but a little slow. How many different ways can I say this. The man's the bologna on white bread of free agency reporting, but one wrong report out of all those is pretty reliable. v2vian man fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Mar 14, 2012 |
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Mar 14, 2012 07:01
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jeffersonlives posted:Of the Jets beat guys, Rich Cimini is completely horrible, Bart Hubbuch has hilariously bad opinions, and Manish Mehta and Jenny Vrentas are both very good. Brian Costello and JP Pelzman are alright, I guess. Manish Mehta seems to get the most national scoops of any local beat writer anywhere, I think. Any idea how often he's right? You guys don't have to do nearly the work I did in my post, but if you wanna look back over somebody's claims thus far in free agency, it can be pretty drat interesting.
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Mar 15, 2012 05:07
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midwat posted:My pick for the "Mike Florio run-on sentence of the day" is this lede:
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Mar 17, 2012 01:09
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Round up your favorite Peyton predictions.
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Mar 20, 2012 01:10
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Uh reminder for those of us smarter than Florio, the NFL would be liable to all players, not just players who suffered head injuries, if they hid concussion info. And they almost certainly did.
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Apr 1, 2012 18:16
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Did everybody read Peter King's fascinating musings about Steve Gleason and Gleason's film dude, the guy who released the audio of Gregg Williams calling for players to be hurt? Holy god King is the worst.quote:It's impossible to have a one-way, clinical view of the Gleason-Pamphilon mess. At least for me it is.
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Apr 11, 2012 00:35
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teachers own the things students learn and the way students use what they learn ok thanks pete
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Apr 11, 2012 01:19
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REPORTERS If a source mentions a murder but he maybe wouldn't want you to tell anyone about it...... you know what to do.
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Apr 11, 2012 01:20
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GD_American posted:In this case I'll defend King...to a point. Gleason was put in a horrible spot by Pamphilon's release of the tape, I agree with you to a point, as well. But Gleason was put in that horrible spot not by Pamphilon's release of the tape, but by the fact that Gleason heard those pro-injury comments and did nothing. Just like everyone else. I don't understand how the documentarian gets the attention and Gleason--and tons of other people--skate off without any scrutiny.
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Apr 13, 2012 18:45
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It just shocks me that a reporter/journalist has some obligation, or might, when he hears Gregg Williams call out opponents' ACLs. But with other outside parties, it's not even brought up that they could maybe do something about it. I mean you have the utter retards like Warren Sapp trying to ID "the mole" or whatever as if it's a bad thing. That's about the only attention that gets paid to the fact that dozens of people heard the injury talk and didn't do anything about it.
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Apr 13, 2012 21:53
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Chichevache posted:Gleason is campaigning to raise awareness of a disease, should he really risk his reputation just to save a few pussies some mild concussions? Gleason shouldn't have to put his work in jeopardy just to keep a few people from being dinged up in a contact sport. Uh yes he should, can't really tell if you're kidding with the minimizing injuries thing but that's actually pretty important. Also everyone who isn't Warren Sapp would admire him for coming forward, it wouldn't be risking his reputation. Also no offense to Gleason but if I can't name the disease he's so drat focused on raising awareness for, maybe he is not very good at that
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Apr 15, 2012 15:46
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Reminder that Peter King thinks he is great. And that he's going to be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
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Apr 16, 2012 15:56
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He thinks he's documenting a unique, creative mind and entering a page into football's storied history. He thinks he is greater than the Sabol family and is the leading football journalist of our times. This is how Peter King sees himself
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Apr 16, 2012 16:08
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ButtView posted:I will never understand why y'all read King. I mostly avoid him, but really I think from a journalism perspective we'll never see a more poorly planned, poorly executed article than that eight-page brainfuck he churns out every Sunday night and you have to watch that car wreck sometimes to remind yourself what not to become
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Apr 16, 2012 18:36
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King is so tone-deaf he has no idea that he just named 1) two white players 2) two players who haven't been retired nearly long enough to hold up as examples.
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May 11, 2012 04:25
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oh good beer chat that's always fun and interesting and not PYF-lite (which is pretty freaking hard to do) peep this cat  he's me
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May 11, 2012 17:53
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Blackula69 posted:Great, consistent writing usually involve great editors - gonad and ham can maybe back me up on this. The problem with Peter king and magary's recent deadspin stuff is that neither of them are edited much, if at all. Yep the lack of an editor in King's writing is number one among its many flaws. The funny thing is, if he got a good, assertive one, they'd have so many fights over his first column or two that he'd throw a fit and go write for somebody else.
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May 25, 2012 23:07
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A columnist is better than a beat writer because "beat writer" implies you're responsible for staying up on a "beat" and doing legwork while "columnist" implies you're a lazy retard idiot indistinguishable from a rivals poster
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Jun 4, 2012 22:13
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Then the line really is, a beat writer is responsible for something and a columnist isn't.
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Jun 4, 2012 22:40
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I guess at this point he should be insulted to be considered a radio host huh
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Jun 5, 2012 00:18
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I just learned that my NEW HERO Mike Florio linked to one of my articles!! I lvoe you mark florida http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/05/cox-thomas-facing-civil-suit-over-alleged-rape/ quote:According to CourthouseNews.com, the woman will be permitted to file suit anonymously, in order to protect her identity. I feel this legitimizes Florio entirely and he's now the best writer in footbal.
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Jun 7, 2012 01:51
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Thank's you mana. Ed what do you press release about? Can I give you my email. need story leads always.
v2vian man fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jun 7, 2012 |
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Jun 7, 2012 18:30
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The Incredible Ed posted:Georgia politics? Oh. Um if you have a Colorado branch (or if you do topics I'd take a few like environment) of whatever you do, that would work...?
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Jun 8, 2012 00:16
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I love copy editing with all my little shriveled awful hosed heart
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Jun 8, 2012 20:34
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I just wish a third of professional writers were any loving good at it. Especially people like King and Florio, who have the contacts to write amazing stuff every week.
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Jun 8, 2012 20:45
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I think I'm really really good at it. Which means yes, even when reading newspaper copy, i laugh and laugh bc there are lots of errors. I also know rules better than me posts might indicate for instance one is No cat pictures in the text!! 
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Jun 8, 2012 21:28
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Declan MacManus posted:If you don't value your time, no one else will either *finally quits two-hour Friday evening session of a computer game thats like 5 years old* How True.
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Jun 9, 2012 03:05
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GD_American posted:Well Florio has flat out owned his site since day one, so nobody's gonna edit him. Peter King has Too Big To Edit syndrome; plenty of authors develop it when they make it big (compare the size and pace of an early Stephen King book with a recent one, JK Rowling is another one). Sash! posted:I went looking for an example of one of the awful sentences I wanted a rewrite on, but was denied.
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Jun 9, 2012 06:56
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) were allowed to fill columns with Flaming Redhead and Coffee Chat, while at ESPN guys like Mortensen and Pasquarelli were writing actual sports-related columns. ESPN saw their online site as just another extension of their brand, and required their reporters to act like reporters; that's why they created Page 2: to specifically have a place for more lifestyle and out-there pieces on sports.
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Jun 10, 2012 20:46
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The suggestion that there's something wrong with Evan Silva or aggregators is laughable. If he pays any attention at all, Silva knows more than Kelly about the depth charts and decisions of 30 or 31 teams in the league. That make's him mor'e qualifi'ed as a journal'is't tha'n you, Kel'l'y'
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Jun 19, 2012 16:39
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Tony Grossi and the Twitter Oopsie A lesson in ESPN-style ethics by ham This is Tony Grossi:  Hey, Tony! Tony was the Browns beat reporter for the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Cleveland's only daily paper, for about 25 years. The best info I can find says "since 1984," but doesn't say what publication(s) he wrote for during that time. He definitely wrote for the PD for over 10 years. Until this: quote:Report: Accidental tweet gets Grossi removed from Browns beat That was in January, roughly the 24th. By Jan. 26: quote:Plain Dealer confirms Browns writer has been reassigned Then in March: quote:Tony Grossi Joining WKNR After Resigning From Plain Dealer WKNR is the "ESPN Cleveland" affiliate. Grossi now posts multiple articles a day to their site. Now I really think Grossi's a good writer and very intelligent about football. He's one of the Hall of Fame voters and I will always love him for keeping Art Modell's awful head out of the Hall of Fame. But it really says something about ESPN's ethics that they see no problem hiring Grossi after the PD (rightly, in my opinion) put him in limbo. How exactly is he an objective and responsible reporter for the Browns? Putting your opinion of the team owner out there like that is pretty much reason to take you off the beat permanently, objectivity's a basic tenet of journalism and I don't think sports should get a pass on that. It's just disappointing that ESPN has such lower standards than traditional media.
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Jul 8, 2012 17:56
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Once you reveal that opinion, though, you can't be considered objective any more. I mean what if a city news reporter posted on Twitter "I know, he's a loving jackass but what can we do but vote him out?" Would you still let him cover the mayor and just act like his stories were still fair?
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Jul 8, 2012 18:32
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Well that would own. I do realize it's natural to form opinions, but one of the problems with combination columnist/reporters is that they share opinions on something, then are expected to report on it the next day. Grossi thinks Randy Lerner sucks. So what does he think of Lerner's personal choices for the front office, like Holmgren and Heckert? If Lerner's such a bad owner he must have hired bad people, right? And it just snowballs from there. There's no way to consider Grossi objective about any of it.
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Jul 8, 2012 18:41
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Isurion posted:So the problem is that he failed to maintain the charade of objectivity? It's not about actually being objective, it's about others perceiving you as objective? Did you follow the trial of Jerry Sandusky? What does Sara Ganim think of any of the prosecutors, or either of the defense attorneys? Or the judge? or even Sandusky, or his wife or adopted son? P.S. Objectivity is always a "charade" because there's nothing to it but doing it. You maintain objectivity, not the charade of it, by keeping your opinions to yourself and treating all sides of a story fairly.
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Jul 8, 2012 18:54
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Marketing New Brain posted:Doesn't seem like that big of a deal, outside of the owner being petty and cutting him off from being able to do his job. Are you saying when they ask him his opinion he's supposed to remain objective? That doesn't make any sense. Good God brother did you read what I posted? The owner didn't cut him off, the Plain Dealer did. And nobody asked him his opinion, he posted it on Twitter out of nowhere, intending to send a direct message.
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Jul 8, 2012 19:03
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Isurion posted:This is the part I'm having trouble understanding. Why is this reporter unable to treat all sides of a story fairly since he made that tweet? He obviously held the same opinion of Lerner prior to the tweet but did anybody say he wasn't treating Lerner fairly before that? It seems like the problem is that the paper and the readers maintain a sort of fiction where the reporters don't have any actual opinions and this guy's sin was to remind people that that isn't actually true. Well, take my example. Sara Ganim covered the Sandusky scandal/trial for months. You think she doesn't have opinions on everyone involved? Of course she does. But tell me what one of them was. And since we can't--or at least everything would be a guess, because she hasn't revealed her opinions--she has been objective. That's good reporting. She might hate Sandusky, she might pity him, she might think the prosecutors were amazing or heartless or whatever, but it clearly didn't affect the reporting she did because I don't think anyone here could find a trace of her personal opinion in her work.
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Jul 8, 2012 19:14
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And really, not to backtrack because I'm right and brilliant and correct and a good arguer and handsome, I don't think Grossi should be banned for life from covering the Browns. But I think the PD was doing the right thing, especially in the offseason, by kind of suspending him and telling him he was reassigned. A little bit of limbo time while the editorial board talks over what to do would be a good move for them. Then ESPN swoops in, snatches him away and puts him back on the Browns beat with no hesitation of any kind, and as far as I can see no public statement about it (including an apology from him most likely). That's really what I am objecting to
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Jul 8, 2012 20:11
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Yall heard that. Nately's my boy (and I'm his whore)
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Jul 8, 2012 21:29
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