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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Everything about this post is wrong. What exactly would require more than shuffling a few lines around? I don't recall him saying anything that isn't expressed just as well through gameplay. Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Silent protagonists in general are awful. Half the time they're used, they harm immersion much more than they contribute to it. To be fair, I don't think a rigidly silent protagonist is appropriate for every game and silencing Shulk would probably result in a minor loss for Xenoblade. It's just that even if the game design of X doesn't fit with a silent protagonist, it would still be a minor nitpick instead of the end of the world. Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Silent protagonists in general are awful. Half the time they're used, they harm immersion much more than they contribute to it. The more story a game has, the more it tends to take control of your character for cutscenes and things, and the more control is taken from you, the less you're fooled into thinking "this is happening to me". Story vs. Gameplay is a false dilemma used to excuse bad gameplay by directors who make video games because they don't have the talent to make movies. Watch the first five minutes of this video, where Chris Avellone schools David Gaider on the topic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55CenBjJ7lw Even Avellone, one of the few competent video game writers, is willing to admit that story implemented through gameplay is always superior to story implemented through scripted dialog. That's not to say that voiceacting or cutscenes have no place in games. Voiceacting has the unique property of being able to be used without interrupting gameplay (for instance, the voiced battle lines emphasize that friendship and teamwork are legitmate forces in the Xenoblade world that give tangible mechanical benefits without actually slowing or interrupting the battle), and cutscenes, as long as they are kept brief, can be used to embellish gameplay or psyche up the player. There should never be a case where you consider yourself enduring gameplay to be rewarded with dialog/cutscenes. If this is the case, you're better off saving your money and watching an LP.
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Jun 12, 2014 05:44
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NmareBfly posted:I still don't like the color palate on display. It looks too next-gen brown. Could just be the zone they're in, but if you compare it to the Knee it just looks washed out. Gotta get those colorblind folks. That's why everyone makes Brown NEXT GEN games right?
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Jun 12, 2014 05:45
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Our motivation is one thing that would likely change, for one thing, if we rewrote Shulk to be a silent protagonist. The big reason he and Reyn set out to kill all the Mechon is because Fiora was killed and Shulk swears revenge. If we rewrote that Shulk was your stand-in, then the biggest motivation is how pissed off YOU are - which, quite frankly, wouldn't be enough to get me going. If we had spent more time with Fiora, then sure, but the time we spend with her is so short we need a connection to one who did know her for a long time and feels affectionate towards her to care, which is what Shulk is. I refuse to believe that that whole scene where Fiora is killed and Shulk screams I'LL KILL YOU could have ever been better in a world where Shulk was silent.
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Jun 12, 2014 06:04
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Terper posted:Our motivation is one thing that would likely change, for one thing, if we rewrote Shulk to be a silent protagonist. The big reason he and Reyn set out to kill all the Mechon is because Fiora was killed and Shulk swears revenge. If we rewrote that Shulk was your stand-in, then the biggest motivation is how pissed off YOU are - which, quite frankly, wouldn't be enough to get me going. If we had spent more time with Fiora, then sure, but the time we spend with her is so short we need a connection to one who did know her for a long time and feels affectionate towards her to care, which is what Shulk is. I refuse to believe that that whole scene where Fiora is killed and Shulk screams I'LL KILL YOU could have ever been better in a world where Shulk was silent. Yeah I wouldn't have replaced Shulk with a silent protagonist. That's not really how it works. But if you just added a character to the game as a silent/very quiet protagonist, it could have worked just as well to help immerse the player into the story and world. Again I've mentioned this but that's basically what they did in Personas 3 and 4 where the protagonist wasn't completely silent but still quiet enough that it left their exact motivations to your own interpretation. Dragon Quest 8 (2005) is an example other than Chrono Trigger of a completely silent protagonist that still had a great story and more than enough motivation to help you proceed.
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Jun 12, 2014 06:17
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Terper posted:Our motivation is one thing that would likely change, for one thing, if we rewrote Shulk to be a silent protagonist. The big reason he and Reyn set out to kill all the Mechon is because Fiora was killed and Shulk swears revenge. If we rewrote that Shulk was your stand-in, then the biggest motivation is how pissed off YOU are - which, quite frankly, wouldn't be enough to get me going. If we had spent more time with Fiora, then sure, but the time we spend with her is so short we need a connection to one who did know her for a long time and feels affectionate towards her to care, which is what Shulk is. I refuse to believe that that whole scene where Fiora is killed and Shulk screams I'LL KILL YOU could have ever been better in a world where Shulk was silent. A silent protagonist is not necessarily a stand in for the player to project on. Motivations don't cease to exits just because they're left unstated. The scene would certainly be less effective without Shulk screaming (and this ties into the idea of appropriate use of cutscenes), but it wouldn't lose coherence. When Fiora dies, you immediately know what Shulk is going to do and why he's going to do it. Shulk and Reyn are feeling angry and helpless, and the obvious way of working through this is a male bonding revenge adventure. The dialog does enhance the scenario and point out a few things that might fly under the radar if only implied through gameplay (like how Shulk is leaning more towards "angry" while Reyn is leaning more towards "helpless"), but the gameplay does a good enough job that it's not strictly necessary. On a similar note, one of the things the dialog does well is show character bonds through tacit understanding. The decision to go on the revenge adventure is essentially  Reventure? I'm surprised you said it first.In Xenosaga it took forty-five minutes to discuss curry, and it took an entire 40-hour rpg just to start the adventure.
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Jun 12, 2014 07:28
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Microcline posted:A silent protagonist is not necessarily a stand in for the player to project on. That totally isn't the point of a silent protagonist and you aren't a massive blithering idiot.
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Jun 12, 2014 08:09
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Microcline posted:To be fair, I don't think a rigidly silent protagonist is appropriate for every game and silencing Shulk would probably result in a minor loss for Xenoblade. This is crazy. You're crazy.
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Jun 12, 2014 08:38
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I made a thread where we can talk/bitch about Xenoblade Chronicles X to our hearts content! - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3642673
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Jun 12, 2014 17:50
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The Black Stones posted:I made a thread where we can talk/bitch about Xenoblade Chronicles X to our hearts content! - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3642673 I'll close this one since any Xenoblade discussion can just be moved there too, agreed?
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Jun 12, 2014 19:22
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