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Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
I just booted the 32-bit Ubuntu desktop live CD, and uname -a is telling me

code:
Linux ubuntu 3.2.0-23-generic-pae #36-Ubuntu SMP Tue Apr 10 22:19:09 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
I'd guess that a great deal of users with 64-bit capable hardware would be just fine with a PAE kernel and 32-bit libraries/applications. You still get to use all of your RAM, but each program is constrained to the 32-bit virtual memory size.

A single program using more than 2GB RAM probably isn't that common for normal desktop use; if you actually need 12GB for a single application you probably know enough to grab the 64-bit version.

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Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
My (admittedly incomplete) understanding is that PAE is a bit of a hack; it complicates virtual memory access, and if you can run 64-bit code you should do so.

Certain things will see a performance boost because of more register space -- both in the number of general purpose registers and their size. Compression, encryption and video encoding are some of the more common tasks that are significantly accelerated by 64-bit compilation. You never know when you'll need a lot of memory for a single program, either; now that Steam is apparently being ported to Linux, I'd assume that there will be native 64-bit builds of the associated games. Why not let them cache as much as they want in memory? :hellyeah:

(Of course, it's also very easy to use ridiculous amounts of memory when you're doing any kind of scientific computing; but this isn't typical desktop Linux usage. I regularly have single programs using 12GB on my desktop machine.)

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
It's best not to think of e.g. 12.04.1 as the equivalent of a Windows service pack -- 12.04 users don't suddenly get a huge update to install on the day 12.04.1 comes into existence.

As ShadowHawk mentioned, 12.04.x versions aren't "released", so much as they're "tagged": 12.04 is updated constantly and sometime around October the current state of 12.04 becomes 12.04.1. This new tagged version is made into CD images, so if you're installing Precise from scratch in half a year you can use the new install image and skip a bunch of updates right after installation. The new install media will also support new hardware because of newer kernel versions, and will contain the fixes for things like the Broadcom B43 wireless chipset bug. (I'm assuming that this is one of the things fixed in the 3.2.0-24 kernel, which was released almost immediately after 12.04.)

EDIT: Point is, waiting a few weeks is usually sufficient to avoid the early issues with a release like this. It probably isn't necessary to hold off until 12.04.1 unless the install CD doesn't boot or something along those lines. (Even in that case, you can probably use the alternate install disc, but I wouldn't blame you for wanting to wait.)

Lysidas fucked around with this message at 23:14 on May 7, 2012

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
The first 12.10 daily builds have been released (e.g. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/). Time to upgrade; 12.04 is so two weeks ago :shepface:

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug

angrytech posted:

Also, that's the link for kubuntu, not standard ubuntu.

kubuntu best *buntu

I experienced a few hiccups during the 12.04 development phase, which mostly came from my insistence on using aptitude when its multiarch support didn't work very well. There were a few flashplugin-installer updates that would make aptitude attempt to remove half of my system in order to resolve dependencies, and ShadowHawk was very helpful in saying "use apt-get or GUI package management tools".

I'm not actually going to upgrade until KDE 4.9 is released; at the moment the only appreciable differences between Precise and Quantal (from my perspective) are kernel 3.4 and Git 1.7.10. It's a very nice coincidence that KDE has also been doing 6-month release cycles for the last two years; every recent Kubuntu release has included a new KDE.

EDIT: Actually, ShadowHawk said "use apt-get to install Wine" -- the flashplugin-installer stuff usually worked itself out in a day or two. It seems that the software repositories for development versions of Ubuntu aren't always internally consistent (which makes perfect sense), so you may get unlucky with some updates that will obviously break your system. "Proposed update would remove 130 important-looking packages" = "wait a few days and try to aptitude full-upgrade again".

Lysidas fucked around with this message at 03:13 on May 10, 2012

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug

Eukodol posted:

I'm partial to Bluefish simply because I run around between Windows, Linux and Mac boxes and I'm lazy enough that I just want to use the one interface on all three platforms.

JetBrains' IDEs work very well on all three platforms as well. I mostly use PyCharm and a bit of IntelliJ on Kubuntu, but I've tried them on all three platforms and I've only had good experiences.

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
Well, btrfs saved my rear end yesterday. I'm running Kubuntu Quantal -- I reinstalled on my Lenovo X61 when the KDE 4.9 beta was part of the daily builds. I've been aptitude full-upgrade'ing regularly, and it looks like some recent updates broke Xorg (most likely the Intel and/or Vesa drivers; these were showing up with (EE) lines in Xorg.0.log). Newer daily live images have the same behavior on my system, and this might be related to the lack of a current i686/x86_64 image at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/.

Luckily, I took a snapshot of my root filesystem a few days ago; all I had to do was
  1. boot from a working live image
  2. mount the root subvolume and cd to where I mounted it
  3. btrfs subvolume delete @
  4. btrfs subvolume snapshot snapshots/root@20120701-1221 @

At the moment I'm forcing the Xorg drivers to stay at their current version and attempting to install the other updates. Hopefully I'll have a working system after that, but if not it'll only take a few minutes to revert :)


EDIT: I have a usable system after keeping the old version of the Xorg drivers and upgrading everything else. It wouldn't be a development release if this kind of stuff didn't happen, and btrfs snapshots are tremendously useful as a safety net.

Lysidas fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jul 3, 2012

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug

Kaluza-Klein posted:

I like btrfs so that is cool, but could you not have just reversed the last apt upgrade?

Probably. I'm not sure how to do that, though. Downgrading packages with apt was a pain when I last tried to do it, and I also wasn't sure which package broke my system. It would have been a lot more work to look at /var/log/apt/history.log and downgrade each individual package until I get a working system. Reverting my entire root FS was very fast and easy.

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
Does anyone know the details of what runs in the initrd images?

I'd like to make read-only btrfs snapshots of my root and home subvolumes on every boot. I'm perfectly fine with needing to prune them manually. I have a script that does this already; the root of my filesystem contains the following:

code:
@
@home
btrfs-snapshot.sh
snapshots
   home@20120712-1228
   root@20120712-1228
I'm perfectly capable of writing a script that checks whether a filesystem is btrfs, and if so, mounts it and tries to execute something named btrfs-snapshot.sh. I'm not at all experienced with the initrd environment, though. I've been exploring /usr/share/initramfs-tools, but if anyone else has done something like this I'd rather avoid reinventing the wheel.

EDIT: Was unclear: btrfs-snapshot.sh just makes timestamped snapshots of @ and @home. It isn't yet designed to run automatically; I run it myself after mounting the root of the btrfs filesystem.

Lysidas fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jul 13, 2012

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
12.04.1 is out.

Ubuntu (desktop/server)
Kubuntu
Xubuntu

I've been zsyncing my 12.04 CD images; looks like about 40% of each file needs to be replaced.

(Different subject: I also zsync the Quantal ISOs every day, and the last two daily builds have replaced almost the entire CD image for both Ubuntu and Kubuntu.)

Lysidas fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Aug 25, 2012

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug

OgNar posted:

E: Basically I'm afraid if I just delete the Ubuntu partition I wont be able to boot at all.

You're right; this is what will happen.

Can you run fixmbr and/or fixboot from your XP install? If you're able to replace GRUB with XP's bootloader using those utilities, then it should be safe to delete the Ubuntu partition.

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
I'm already looking forward to 13.04. I'm using Quantal on all of my machines and have been since the Nvidia closed-source driver was usable. Now that 12.10 is converging toward a stable release, there aren't any crazy "replace every package and break the system" updates anymore, and it just doesn't feel right.

I also can't wait until the system installation of Python is the newly-released 3.3, which I'm guessing was released too late to make it into Quantal as the default Python 3 version.

Side note: I think it's really neat that the plan for 12.10 is to only install Python 3 by default, but the daily CD images still have 2.7 in addition to 3.2. I wonder whether it'll actually happen.

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug

hifi posted:

try 'which ls' and make sure that reports "ls --color=auto".

Did you try this? which does not process aliases in this way.

code:
$ cat /etc/lsb-release 
DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=12.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=precise
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS"
$ which ls
/bin/ls
$ alias | grep ls
alias l='ls -CF'
alias la='ls -A'
alias ll='ls -alF'
alias ls='ls --color=auto'

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
Looks like it'll be time to upgrade soon.

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
I just upgraded to Kubuntu 13.04 on my laptop, and was pleasantly surprised that nothing went wrong. The only problem I've encountered is having to help VMware Workstation find kernel headers, and I'm not looking forward to having to do this for every kernel release.

I use btrfs on all of my systems and they're all configured to take snapshots on every boot -- I wouldn't have dreamed of trying this upgrade without such an undo mechanism.

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
12.04.2 CD images are available.

Ubuntu
Kubuntu
Xubuntu

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
Saucy Salamander, huh?

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
Yes. I set up a Windows 7 dual boot machine a few months ago, and I found it easiest to install Windows while its hard drive was the only disk in the machine. I then reconnected the Ubuntu drive so that it was earlier in the boot order, ran sudo update-grub, and the OS prober scripts found the Windows install. It was added to the boot loader menu and everything worked perfectly after rebooting.

The Windows installation doesn't know that it isn't the primary disk; GRUB seems to be configured to swap the BIOS drives before executing the Windows bootloader. Windows Disk Management lists the Windows disk as #0. If the Ubuntu drives are removed, the Windows installation is usable without any changes (i.e. don't need to run fixboot or fixmbr or the Windows 7 equivalent that I don't remember offhand).

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
If you want to delete everything, boot from a live CD that will open a terminal. Become root with sudo -i then run something like fdisk -l | grep 'Disk /dev' to get a list of the disks in your machine.

code:
# fdisk -l | grep 'Disk /dev'
Disk /dev/sda: 256.1 GB, 256060514304 bytes
Disk /dev/sdb: 1000.2 GB, 1000204886016 bytes
Disk /dev/sdc: 2000.4 GB, 2000398934016 bytes
Note that USB drives will show up here too, if you're booting from a flash drive instead of a CD.

You can then wipe the important parts of each drive (bootloader, partition table, etc.) with dd. 64MB is more than enough to have the drive appear blank:

code:
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1024k count=64
Do that for each disk you want to wipe. You may want to reboot before retrying the Ubuntu installer.

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
I've been testing Kubuntu 14.04 in a VM periodically, and today I decided to take the plunge and upgrade my laptop from Saucy. do-release-upgrade -d failed for reasons I didn't feel like investigating, so I just reinstalled from scratch and spent an extra hour reconfiguring everything. There aren't many differences that I've noticed; KDE 4.12 seems to be focused on polishing everything that was introduced in 4.10 and 4.11.

I ran the development version of Kubuntu Saucy for about six weeks before its release and didn't experience any problems or instability, but ~4 months before release is a little different. I wouldn't dream of running a dev version like this without btrfs snapshots on every boot.

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
Does anyone have any opinions about using daily ISO images of a stable Ubuntu version for new installs? I like the idea of a new installation having updated packages immediately (without having to prolong the installation process by selecting "download updates while installing"). I don't mind an extra zsync ISO download before making new bootable flash drive. Daily images for prerelease versions are sometimes broken for a few days at a time, but I wouldn't expect this to happen to daily ISOs of a stable version.

Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug

evol262 posted:

If you're installing Ubuntu this often, set up a local apt mirror and spin your own CD with a preseed (or PXE)

wooger posted:

If you're installing Ubuntu that often then surely imaging it to the drive and running a setup script is 8000 times less hassle.

Or make an unattended install script that will run everything for you without interaction.

Thanks for the replies. Oddly enough, every install I've done recently has been an independent desktop install on someone's personal machine. (e.g. "woman in my research group's netbook caught some malware and was still running XP, she'd been meaning to use Linux again for quite a while so she was as happy with me installing Kubuntu as I was", "guy in my group was running 12.04 until his hard drive died and had to be replaced, so may as well reinstall with 14.04", etc.)

Spinning my own CD images seems like it's worth looking in to, but I'd probably rather install from a stock ISO image for someone else's desktop/laptop. I was just curious if anyone knew of any significant downsides of using a daily image of 14.04.

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Lysidas
Jul 26, 2002

John Diefenbaker is a madman who thinks he's John Diefenbaker.
Pillbug
14.04.1 images are available.

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