Trainchat - The failure of privatisation in the British Railway

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Trainchat - The failure of privatisation in the British Railway

«‹›4 »

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

London Overground uses both 3rd rail and AC too, because they go all over the place.

Also if you want hilariously old rolling stock the Isle of Wight still uses old London Underground trains built in the 1930s, as part of the modern service privatisation was supposed to provide.

e: I get that because it's an anomaly it's nice to be like "hey a heritage-ish railway" but come on guys, you're not paid to do that.

# ¿ May 7, 2012 19:28

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 10, 2024 16:42

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Ah, didn't know that. Still, it's not like LU don't build new trains all the drat time, they could be using something that's a bit less than 75 odd years old.

# ¿ May 7, 2012 20:08

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Recently there was one example where the subsidy was exactly the same as the profits. Can't remember who it was though.

I know there was a Number Crunching in Private Eye a couple of years ago where the subsidies given to First Great Western in a period were �50million and the profit made in the same period was �50million.

# ¿ May 8, 2012 00:12

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

GuestBob posted:

Why is it often cheaper to fly than to take the train in Britain?

Why does a travelcard in Berlin costs half as much as a travel card in London?

Why does Scotrail sometimes run two carriage trains during the rush hour on the line between Glasgow and Edinburgh?

Tories. Years of underinvestment followed by the assumption that private enterprise would invest a shitload of money in the railways when they took over (surprise: they didn't) leading to NR being set up and the government suddenly having to pay loadsamoney for upgrade and maintenance work that should have been done years ago.

An example: there are still sections of signalling equipment in use on the London Underground that dates back to the 1950s. Thanks, Thatcher (Local Government Act 1985 dissolving Ken Livingstone & the GLA / Secretary of State for Transport being responsible for LRT).

# ¿ May 8, 2012 00:53

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

I can drink a beer on the train, I can't while driving. Ergo trains = better.

Also there was a plan to double track the freight line that runs into the Port of Felixtowe but it was scuppered by farmers and bullshit nimbyism from people in the town who still complain about the lack of jobs there while continually opposing expansion of the port and it's transport links.

# ¿ May 10, 2012 23:58

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Install Gentoo posted:

The New York City Subway still has plenty of signalling equipment that's been in place and in use since the 1930s or earlier (if I remember right the last equipment in place and in use from before 1910 was finally removed a few years ago). It honestly doesn't matter much how old it is as long as it works properly.

But MTA have a big advantage over LUL in their subways layouts are much, much more sensible than the clusterfuck that lives under the streets of London*. The most important thing is that more of theirs is four tracked (ours is only two) so if something breaks here everything stops, where as there they can go around. It's also why they get a 24/7 service and we get one that starts at roughly 5:30 and ends at midnight.

*fun fact: this is due to the inherent inefficiencies in private companies building railways, for example why is Oxford Circus station so badly laid out? Because it was two stations run by rival companies (the Central London Railway and the Baker Street & Waterloo Railway), until unification as the Underground Electric Railways Company of London and then the London Passenger Transport Board.

# ¿ May 14, 2012 17:43

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Install Gentoo posted:

And hell, you'd think a system that shuts down every day would mean they'd have the ability to do things like lengthen platforms system-wide and all that. Or that they'd have the brains when building the Jubilee line in the 70s to make that use normal size trains and 4 track it, since it wasn't just another existing private line from the late 1800s that needed to be small tunnels and 2 tracks.

Part of what is now the Jubilee used to be the Bakerloo though so there would have been all kinds of fun problems with bridge clearances and so on.

# ¿ May 14, 2012 18:58

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Or they can do what South West Trains did and increase capacity by taking out seats. You can cram in more people standing than you can sitting.

# ¿ May 14, 2012 21:35

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Also you get fun with fares from playing around with what's allowed in the National Routeing Guide which I will c&p some of the wikipedia entry about here, as it is almost too complex to be understood by humans.

National Routeing Guide, Wikipedia posted:

The rail network is complex, and the routeing guide an inherited document, not one designed from scratch. As a nodal network, the rail system lends itself to logical computer analysis. Accordingly, under such detailed analysis by enthusiasts, the routeing system has been found to contain many idiosyncrasies. An infamous example is the following query and response sent to customer services: "What are the permitted routes where a ticket is routed 'not London'; in particular, what if the only route given in the Guide is [via] 'London'? A: In this case, you can use the ticket via London. The routes 'London' and 'not London' are not necessarily mutually exclusive." The latter sentence clearly defies logical explanation.

At one point the guide also permitted legitimate travel on a London to Carlisle ticket via Inverness, on a similar technicality, (travelling up the East coast, down the West, never needing to double back) though it is unknown whether anyone actually made such a journey. Other anomalies include the apparent option of using a cross-London ticket to travel via Cambridge.

The routeing guide now being available in computer form means that the traveller is one step removed from the rules of the system. In many cases the program produces results which cannot be explained by the PDF version's rules, and whilst the site implies the two are identical, the ATOC maintains the program provides the definitive answer as it is more recent. This has generated some protest on occasion, given that the queries into the system's working produces illogical results. As all travellers have a legal obligation to travel using a valid ticket, as the ticket forms part of a contract between traveller and train company (along with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage and the National Fares Manual), there is a sound argument that the principles of the routeing guide should be publicly available to enable compliance - a primary principle of contract law is that the terms of the contract must be known to all parties and available for scrutiny.

The ATOC's reluctance to answer questions about anomalies is often taken as confirmation of the opinion that the routeing guide consists of guidelines than actual rules on the finer points of logic.

It is insane and nobody seems to know how it works, especially when you add in the franchise owners having to cooperate with each other.

# ¿ May 15, 2012 15:34

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

PkerUNO posted:

Speaking of train tickets, just went to book a return from Manchester to London for the Olympics.

According to National Rail, the only possible route is direct via Virgin Trains. One of my colleagues suggested changing at Stoke-on-Trent - tried that, same price.

Then I tried booking the two legs separately, as suggested above.

Manchester - London direct: �74.50 return.

Manchester - Stoke-on-Trent: �8 return.
Stoke-on-Trent - London: �24.50 return.

is the only answer.

# ¿ May 23, 2012 16:31

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Wikipedia is only slightly unhelpful http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading_gauge#Great_Britain writing about the size of things that can be carried but not the total dimensions.

# ¿ May 28, 2012 19:35

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

In light of Bozza's level crossings effort post (currently delayed due to poor railhead adhesion), have a 40 minute documentary from 1969 about how they built London Underground's Victoria Line: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00sc29t/How_They_Dug_the_Victoria_Line/

# ¿ Jun 17, 2012 14:50

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Do you mean the big trellis style gates than close across passageways? They're used to change passenger routes around stations when it's high traffic. Otherwise I am clueless to these white fences.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2012 15:18

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

There's one in South London that goes from Clapham High Street to Olympia each afternoon, but never comes back. It's especially baffling because London Bridge - Willsden Junction would be a good route to add to the London Overground network.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2012 11:47

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Fig. 1 - A sign anyone familiar to the railway will have seen

Fig. 2 - The line in question

Meanwhile tomorrow we get to discover how much more expensive our trains will be thanks to the government's handy RPI+shitloads policy, unless Gideon's done something nice and reformed ahahahahahah I can't bring myself to write it.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2012 18:11

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Good news ~~everyone~~ shareholders! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19251068

quote:

Rail fares will rise by 6.2% in January

Some rail fares in England will rise by 6.2% in January - about double the rate of inflation - although other price rises may be higher. The Retail Prices Index (RPI) measure of inflation in July - which stood at 3.2% - is used to calculate the rises.

Some English fares will rise by RPI plus 3%, while in Scotland they will go up by RPI plus 1%. Wales has yet to set a figure for its increase. The extra money is helping to fund huge investment across the network. There are no fare increases currently planned in Northern Ireland, where fares are not linked to RPI, after a 3% rise in April.

The decision to have different formulas for fare rises is a political one. In Scotland, 75% of the cost of the railways comes from a government subsidy - higher than in England. The figures for planned rises in England and Scotland are an average across regulated tickets, which make up half of all fares. These regulated fares include season tickets and off-peak intercity journeys. In Scotland, this does not include the busy shuttle service between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Some passengers could see their journey prices rising by more than the average, as train companies are allowed to increase them by up to five percentage points more, as long as they cut ticket prices elsewhere. Passengers will not be told yet how prices will change on their specific route. The latest figure sets the template for this rise. Those who travel across a border, such as from Scotland to England, will be subject to the higher English fare rises.

Mike Hewitson, of watchdog Passenger Focus, said: "This is another inflation-busting increase. There is only so much you can squeeze passengers. The government needs to think again about the plus 3% [formula]."

BBC transport correspondent Richard Westcott says passengers and taxpayers used to split the cost of running the railways, with both sides paying about half each, but successive ministers have cut the amount of government funding and that has resulted in regular fare rises. The latest rise means fares in England will have gone up by more than inflation for 10 successive years, resulting in some of the most expensive train journeys in Europe although some tickets booked well in advance can be cheap, our correspondent adds.

Passengers have reacted with disappointment. One disgruntled passenger told the BBC: "I don't think it's good value for money at all. Every train I get in the morning, you either have to stand up or you can't get in."

Stephen Joseph, from passengers' group the Campaign for Better Transport, said rail fares could rise three times faster than salaries if the government sticks to its policy. "With the economy flatlining, this is untenable. The government knows they can't continue to hit commuters - that's why they've postponed the fuel duty increase," he said, as activists from the group protested against the anticipated increases at London's Waterloo station. Now they need to give the same help to rail users." The group said commuters across the country routinely spend between 5% and 10% of their salary getting to work. In some towns in south-east England, it said they spent up to 15%.

TUC general secretary Brendan Barber said: "Commuters could see the price of their season ticket going up three times faster than their pay rise. In return for these whopping fare increases, rail travellers can expect cutbacks to services and more unmanned stations, creating safety risks for those travelling at unsociable hours."

But Michael Roberts, chief executive of the Association of Train Operating Companies, said: "It has been government policy during the past eight years for passengers to pay a larger share of the cost of operating the railways and to focus taxpayers' money on investing in longer-term improvements to the network. Any flexibility train companies have within the rules is to maximise revenue for the government."

Transport Secretary Theresa Villiers said that the fare increases were necessary in the short-term to achieve the government's long-term goal of bringing down the cost of running railways. In the longer term we are determined to get rid of these above-inflation fare rises all together," she said. "But in the meantime I'm afraid these fare rises are going to be necessary in order to help us deliver a rail investment programme at a time when the deficit means public spending needs to be constrained," she added.

The official inflation figures from the Official for National Statistics show that the Consumer Prices Index measure of inflation rose from 2.4% in June to 2.6% in July. The rise in the rate of CPI follows three months of falls. RPI rose to 3.2% from 2.8% in June.

Oh well I'm sure Theresa is right when she says charging us more is better for us. Or (surprise) politicians don't know how to run railways.

John Major, 1993 posted:

British Rail is deeply inefficient

Reforming our Railways, Department for Transport, 2012 posted:

The rail industry... remains unacceptably inefficient.

Trebles all round, to progress!

# ¿ Aug 14, 2012 12:57

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

tentish klown posted:

Buy some shares then?

But I spent all my money on season tickets so I could get to work :qq:

# ¿ Aug 14, 2012 14:25

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Bozza posted:

I think it sums up the whole problem with the franchising system if First Group get their grubby hands on West Coast. The little scam they pulled with the Great Western should have got them thrown out but no, they're gonna get WCML and look to be moving into the territory of gulping up the whole Network South East system.

Empty quoting is forbidden in D&D, but they've got the WCML.

Bozza posted:

Bollocks. It's all just bollocks.

e: holy poo poo the spokesman for Virgin Rail on Radio 4 just now saying "if this is how the franchising system works, it's not for us" and saying they're not going to work with the DfT any more because their competitors are making unrealistic bids. So VR are giving up altogether.

And now some nasal American fuckwit talking about how much First have suffered from the Government taxing their failings (ie not at all) and Evan Davies saying "it seems to be you don't suffer at all when you lose"

Double edit: turns out nasal American fuckwit is Tim O'Toole, head of FirstGroup and former London Underground PPP disaster master in chief.

Rude Dude With Tude fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Aug 15, 2012

# ¿ Aug 15, 2012 08:00

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

The reason there's sod all urban transit in American cities is because of General Motors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy, and it's a lot easier to rip tracks up than it is to put them back in.

I have no idea* why the US hasn't invested in public high speed rail links up and down the West and East coasts though, rather than all the stuff that's owned by companies (and let their trains have priority, thus loving over Amtrak's service)

_{*It's probably nimbyism}

# ¿ Aug 15, 2012 11:18

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Ahahah Branson you big baby

@jonsnowC4: Branson tells me on C4 News that Cameron has to pick up the phone and apologise to him before he will bid for anoither rail franchise

:qq:

# ¿ Aug 15, 2012 19:24

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Ardennes posted:

I have a question, how much per a year does the British government (through the dept of transport) spend on rail as a whole (including subsidies/rail management)?

I'm not sure (because of the way Network Rail is funded) but a figure that's often thrown around is we spend three times as much paying private companies to run the railways as we did when we just ran the railway. Because of free market efficiency and choice, or something.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2012 19:24

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Virgin Trains staff respond to news about their new overlords being First

# ¿ Aug 17, 2012 17:28

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

In unrelated totally surprising never would have been expected news, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19324962

BBC News posted:

Virgin Atlantic to fly between Heathrow and Manchester

Virgin Atlantic is to introduce a short haul service between London Heathrow and Manchester from next March. The airline says its first foray into the UK domestic market will provide competition for British Airways. It will also provide a regional link for passengers using its long haul services from Heathrow.

"Flying between Heathrow and Manchester is just the start for Virgin Atlantic's new short haul operation," said airline chief executive Steve Ridgway. "We have the means to connect thousands of passengers to our long haul network as well as to destinations served by other carriers."

The airline says it will operate three daily flights to Manchester using Airbus A319 aircraft from 31 March 2013. Virgin says that 65% of people who fly from Manchester to London then connect on to another long haul flight, and they want a share of that market.

Manchester Airports Group said Virgin was already a strong carrier at the airport with long haul routes to Barbados, Orlando and Las Vegas. "We aim to support our airlines as they look to grow and we hope the success of Virgin's domestic services will lead to further expansion at Manchester," said Ken O'Toole, chief commercial officer at Manchester Airports Group (MAG).

Virgin Atlantic was founded by Sir Richard Branson, and is 49% owned by Singapore Airlines. Earlier this month it reported an annual loss because of higher fuel prices. The carrier made a loss of £80m in the 12 months to the end of February, compared with a profit of £18.5m a year earlier.

Last week Virgin Rail was informed that it had lost the West Coast Mainline franchise - which includes the London to Manchester rail route - which it has held for 15 years from 1997. Virgin deny that the airline move is in response to that decision.

BA said in a statement that it was "confident that our excellent customer service and great value fares will continue to set the standard in UK short haul aviation".

Major was right! Competition in the railways! (now their subsidiary doesn't run it)

# ¿ Aug 21, 2012 00:24

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

cross posting ahoy! Here's why the British railway unions are still loving ace http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...nt-8099812.html

Independent posted:

King�s Cross staff threaten walk out in protest at EDL using station as demonstration rallying point

Passengers travelling to the Paralympics face major disruption today after staff at King�s Cross in London vowed to walk out in protest at supporters of the far-right English Defence League using the station as a rallying point for a demonstration in the north of the capital. Staff members have complained that they faced abuse at the hands of the EDL as they headed to a similar protest last year. A spokesman for the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) said staff would take the step � in a bid to close the Underground station - in order to protect themselves and the public.

�Staff will walk away from work on the grounds of safety, if nothing else,� said an RMT spokesman yesterday. He added: �we are talking about an organisation which has a track record of violence and our staff have reported problems in the past.� RMT members have privately talked about shutting the station down. However, their bosses at Transport for London insisted yesterday that the station would remain open and said that their talks with the Metropolitan Police and British Transport Police indicated no immediate danger to staff or to the public.

Police sought to ban last year�s march, which saw clashes between the EDL and their opponents, and staff at King�s Cross closed the entrance to the tube for around half an hour.

Staff are understood to be unhappy with the approach to last year�s EDL demonstration in Walthamstow. Some said they have decided to take action themselves to stop the group travelling from the station to Blackhorse Road tube station in north London, where this year�s march is due to start. Some of those involved are also believed to be ideologically opposed to the EDL and will seek to block their march if possible. Plans seen by the Independent indicate that some staff at King�s Cross station are planning to �organise halting [the marchers] getting on to the system in the first place�. The plans continue: �The obvious point of exit is Blackhorse Road. We need to close this station down (as opposed to just withdrawing to places of safety) and then Walthamstow when the risk is transferred.

�We mustn�t do this too early because we�ll only hinder the counter demonstration that�s assembling at Walthamstow at 11. In other words, we close Blackhorse Road and Walthamstow stations at the point when the risk actually presents itself. We need to draft up a simple pro forma on refusal to work on the grounds of health and safety on account of the serious and imminent risk presented by the EDL to staff and passengers." In an email, organisers said they planned to �refuse to work, close the station and insist that the service [does not stop there] as a result.�

They said they expected around 500 EDL members to attend the demonstration and anti-EDL groups have vowed to hold counter demonstrations. A TfL spokesperson said: �The safety of our staff and customers is our first priority. We have been working closely with the British Transport Police and Metropolitan Police and there is no known threat to our staff or our customers. We have no plans to close either King�s Cross or Blackhorse Road stations.�

EDL leader Stephen Yaxley-Lennon did not respond to requests for comment. However, the group has repeatedly insisted that it is non-violent but, since it does not have a formal membership structure, cannot control every member of a march.

gently caress yeah!

# ¿ Sep 1, 2012 01:29

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

It means the government will be responsible for running both the East and the West Coast Mainlines.

Now if they'd only do the same with all the other railways we'd be on to a winner.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2012 14:57

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Good doc on BBC Four about the HST programme, it seems so far the conclusion is, Bloody Thatcher :argh:

# ¿ Sep 13, 2012 21:43

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Tincans posted:

Strange, at the end of the programme there was a very strong Thatcher vibe, which even the interviewee noted was an unpopular opinion

Yes I saw that, though it hadn't got I the end when I posted.

Still, Thatcher :argh:

# ¿ Sep 13, 2012 22:34

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Bozza posted:

Modern TPWS design however, which needs to be compliant to something called Technical Instruction 21, which is about so-called 'robust train protection'. This is done by calculating the Safe Overrun Distance and bringing a train which SPADs to stand before it reaches the Conflict Point. This is done by pouring over the scheme design and plugging a load of numbers into a super high-tech, cutting edge tool (i.e. an Excel Spreadsheet someone knocked up in a few hours), to play with the overspeed loops.

Are these loops the big yellow things between the rails that you can see as you're leaving Paddington? They are long yellow rectangles covered in muddy bootprints with DO NOT STEP etched into them.

(basically I was wondering what they were and now seems a good time to ask)

# ¿ Oct 3, 2012 12:49

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Efficiency news from the RMT http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=164320

quote:

Evidence unearthed by rail union RMT has revealed that all of the rail franchises currently eligible for receiving taxpayer financial support under loaded contract rules are now claiming it with the exception of Northern Rail and London Midland who could move onto the same special measures shortly.

RMT research also reveals today that the total level of revenue support paid back to the train companies has shot up to �451 million, meaning that nearly half the �1 billion paid to the government in premiums is returned to the operators in a revolving door of corporate welfare. The revenue support payments have gone up from �290 million in a year and are still rising.

The so-called system of �revenue support� � better known as �corporate welfare - is where under the franchising �cap and collar� procedures, private train operators can get more subsidy or pay less premium if their revenue undershoots original inflated projections.

The Parliamentary information shows that the following TOC�s are now being bailed out by the taxpayer because they and DFT have got their sums wrong,

FGW
Virgin West Coast
FCC
South Eastern
South West trains
East Midland
Cross Country
Southern (from 20/9/13)

That means that eight out of the current 19 rail franchises are on taxpayer bailouts and, whilst Northern Rail and London Midland are in revenue share at the moment (paying more premium or getting less subsidy) this is only by a marginal sum and they could also apply for a bailout at any time.

That would mean all ten of the franchises let under �cap and collar� would be soaking up corporate welfare from the tax payer � a majority of the UK rail franchises.

RMT General Secretary Bob Crow said:

�The expensive shambles of rail franchising extends well beyond the fiasco on the West Coast mainline as these figures show that a majority of the UK�s rail routes will soon be on corporate welfare due to a mixture of bogus train operator projections and government and departmental incompetence.

�Hundreds of millions of pounds that could go towards improving our railways or keeping down fares is being soaked up by this racket which is lining the pockets of the private rail companies at taxpayers� expense.

�The case for renationalisation of the railways to end this state sponsored rip-off is now overwhelming.�

Virgin West Coast are getting more taxpayer subsidies because their projections were wrong? Well better let them carry on with the franchise then clearly they're the most trustworthy and best at running the serv :commissar:

In conclusion,

# ¿ Oct 5, 2012 10:49

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

It's the 60th anniversary of the Harrow and Wealdstone rail crash today, go read about what led to AWS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrow_and_Wealdstone_rail_crash

# ¿ Oct 8, 2012 10:29

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

pointsofdata posted:

Isn't the DLR pretty much automated? How much additional safety do those guys pressing the button actually provide?

What do you do when the master computer crashes and the train you're on is stranded on a concrete elevation 30m above the ground? Or when it's icy and the ATO system can't compensate for icy rail conditions and your train slides past a station? Or when engineers leave a spanner on the track and the computer driving the train doesn't know it's hit an obstacle?

The train captains (or whatever Serco calls them) are the problem solving element on the train that can fix poo poo on the fly, herd passengers around in emergencies and do all the other things the ancient software running the DLR can't do.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2012 23:46

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Cerv posted:

Yes, the C stock. Oldest trains on the network. Not great. Also used on the Hammersmith & City line and the District line from Edgware Road to Wimbledon.

Thankfully due to be replaced with the same lovely S stock right before the District line update.

Only some of it is the oldest, they built some more in 1977! The uniform oldest is the Bakerloo Line's which was made in 1972.

As to the Skyfall argument, the explosion could have (probably) severed the tunnel telephone wires which should cut traction power anyway.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2012 01:24

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Bozza's still a poo poo for not writing about gates so let's have a look at some big holes;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpEkD3SjCCM

I might have posted about this before but I can't be arsed to check. Don't die, train thread :ohdear:

e: also fares are up 6.3% tomorrow, get your season tickets in chaps.

# ¿ Jan 1, 2013 06:02

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Oops http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-20968521

BBC News posted:

Network Rail has apologised after it wrongly announced it was investing millions on a North Yorkshire station.

Revealing its spending plans for the next five years earlier in the week, the company said it would spend �10m to improve capacity at Harrogate station. It later said the money was actually being spent 36 miles (58km) away in Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, and apologised for "genuine human error".

Speaking on BBC Radio York on Tuesday, Network Rail's route managing director Phil Verster said the investment at Harrogate station would take place between 2014 and 2019. He said: "We expect to see passengers very pleased with what they see." Speaking to the station again on Thursday, Mr Verster said he should have spotted the error in a press release and "profusely apologised".

Brian Dunsby, chief executive of Harrogate Chamber of Trade, said: "Naturally we are disappointed but to be quite honest we were quite surprised to hear the announcement. In a way I feel sorry for Network Rail having made this mistake but I'm sure they will make it up to us in one way or another."

Also Bob Crow delivers highest RMT membership since the Victorian Era. A useful thing next time someone complains he's taking all the money and doing gently caress all and now there's a tube strike and it's raining and I'm going to be late for work. http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=168342

RMT posted:

Membership figures released by the union today show that RMT has put on a net gain of 1456 members through 2012, taking the total to 77,549 � an annual growth of nearly 2% in the most challenging circumstances.

The union has increased its membership year-on-year from the 59,277 total when General Secretary Bob Crow was elected in 2002

RMT General Secretary Bob Crow said:

�These membership growth figures at RMT, in the most hostile employment conditions for a generation, are a testament to the fighting, campaigning stance of this trade union and the energy and determination of our members, activists, officers and staff who are out there building the organisation day in and day out.

�RMT has shown, through pay rises like the recent 3.5% deal at Network Rail, that militant, industrial trade unionism is the only defence that working people have got in the face of the savage assaults meted out in the name of austerity under the direction of this rotten government.

�RMT isn�t resting on its laurels, the entire organisation is geared up to make recruitment, education and training an absolute priority as we prepare ourselves for the battles ahead.�

ENDS

# ¿ Jan 16, 2013 03:50

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Jonnty posted:

When it gets more serious (ie. in Scotland), there's some other more serious stuff that can happen. Snow and ice can fly up into the undercarriage of trains and cause problems. Ironically, modern units are too good at getting rid of excess heat (and not generating it in the first place), so it stays frozen if it's cold enough, disruptively knocking units out until they thaw up.

I even noticed the ice frozen up around the MK3 carriages on my train to Suffolk today but reading this I've only just realised that's what that noise was.

Rude Dude With Tude fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jan 21, 2013

# ¿ Jan 21, 2013 19:25

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

FightingMongoose posted:

Bozza, if you can be bothered making an effortpost...
http://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1720pg/in_the_last_20_years_since_privatisation_in_what/
I always appreciate your writing maybe some other people would too.

Well I posted. Eurrrgh reddit.

And also a thing from the BBC asking "have fares risen since privatisation" (answer: yes.) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21056703 including rail minister Simon Burns giving the excuse that the reason fares are high now is because BR didn't invest in the 80s/90s and now the ~*free market*~ has to make up for it, conveniently ignoring why British Rail didn't invest (no money) and who was responsible for funding them (tories).

Rude Dude With Tude fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jan 22, 2013

# ¿ Jan 22, 2013 20:58

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Bozza posted:

The customer vs pasenger thing is directly aligned to the introduction of the national conditions of carriage aka post privatisation.

They do call passengers customers on London Underground too and they're still government run. It's infuriating.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2013 20:31

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

The Independent are kicking off about salaries and privatisation being horseshit http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/anger-over-1m-pay-deals-for-rail-bosses-as-fares-keep-going-up-8498776.html

The Independent posted:

Anger over �1m pay deals for rail bosses as fares keep going up
_{By KEVIN RAWLINSON

Monday 18 February 2013}
Rail bosses are being handed pay packets worth as much as �1.4m while commuters are being hit with rising ticket prices, according to figures published yesterday.
Information obtained under the Freedom of Information Act showed that eight executives on the East Coast line, where services are being run by the public sector, were revealed to be on �100,000 or more, with the highest paid on a salary of between �161,000 and �180,000.
Two other East Coast directors are being paid between �121,000 and �140,000 and five more between �100,000 and �120,000 a year. The revelations are likely to cause anger among commuters, who were hit with above-inflation price hikes less than two months ago.
And executives at Go-Ahead, FirstGroup and Network Rail were getting deals worth more than �1m when assorted bonuses and other benefits were taken into account.
Meanwhile, a passenger satisfaction survey published today by consumer magazine Which? shows that more than half of the companies running Britain�s train network were given scores of less than 50 per cent. The research showed that only 22 per cent of train users felt the service they received was improving, despite rising ticket prices.
Figures from other operators showed more six-figure salaries being doled out in boardrooms across the industry. The 10 directors at CrossCountry, which runs services mainly in the West Midlands, were paid �795,000 in total in 2011 with the highest paid taking home �222,000 including pension contributions.
It was revealed last month that ScotRail boss Stephen Montgomery received a �54,000 pay rise, taking his salary up to �333,000 in 2012.
The company is owned by FirstGroup, where chief executive Tim O�Toole was paid �846,000 last year, plus a �134,000 pension contribution and �75,000 as benefits in kind. Accounts showed that, in the year ending March 2012, FirstGroup made an operating profit of �110.5m on its UK rail business.
Network Rail, which is currently fighting to meet targets on punctuality, paid its chief executive Sir David Higgins an annual basic salary of �560,000, while finance director Patrick Butcher was on �382,000. Two other executives, Robin Gisby and Simon Kirby, were paid salaries of �360,000.
National Express chief executive, Dean Finch, is paid a salary of �550,000 in a deal which was worth more than �1.4m in 2011 with bonuses and other benefits. National Express group finance director, Jez Maiden, is on �420,000 a year and his deal was worth more than �1m with additional benefits. Chairman John Devaney, who is about to stand down, was on �225,000.
Accounts also showed that Go-Ahead chief executive David Brown�s salary was �510,000 but his deal was worth �900,000 after a bonus was added, with finance director Keith Down on �326,000.
Manuel Cortes, leader of the TSSA rail union, said: �One of the reasons we have the highest rail fares in Europe is because we have created an army of Fat Controllers since John Major sold off British Rail 20 years ago.�
None of the train companies responded to requests for comment.

Fast track: The fat controllers
Tim O�Toole
The FirstGroup chief executive�s remuneration package was worth more than �1m last year. The American executive left a lucrative job with London Underground � where he earned the CBE for his response to the London 7/7 bombings � to join FirstGroup.
Sir David Higgins
The Network Rail boss waived his right to a bonus of up to �340,000 under ministerial pressure in 2012. Justine Greening, then Transport Secretary, criticised plans to allow him as much as 60 per cent of his �560,000 salary.
Dean Finch
National Express�s Group Chief Operating Executive was reportedly allowed a bonus of up to 150 per cent of his �550,000 pay to stay at the firm after being approached by other groups.
David Brown
The Go-Ahead chief, who is paid �510,000, has spoken recently of the challenging politics inherent in an industry receiving public funding.
Jez Maiden
The Finance Director at National Express, who has previously served in the same role at Northern Foods, British Vita and Britannia Building Society, is paid a salary of �420,000.

Some of it is slightly dishonest journalism (conflating the heads of whole transport companies with just the rail divisions) but I agree with the sentiment.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2013 02:10

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

^^^ a good post

Underground railway = best railway;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWg2AZgsV90

# ¿ Feb 22, 2013 15:31

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 10, 2024 16:42

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Iohannes posted:

I had a first on Monday. Missed the train, not because I was late but because it was full. I'm not talking a bit crowded, I'm talking Tokyo subway in rush hour full: so full the guard had to stop people trying to board it. Luckily I wasn't in a hurry and the buses accept train tickets, but I've never seen that before. I think the previous 4 carriage train was cancelled so this 2 carriage one was not going to be sufficient, but it's clearly not as simple as just running a bigger train what with all the logistics.

This used to happen in the AM peaks on the Inner South London Line too but doesn't any more, Southern Railway solved the problem by withdrawing the service entirely :suicide:

# ¿ Mar 21, 2013 02:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Trainchat - The failure of privatisation in the British Railway

«‹›4 »