Bryter posted:

It's disingenuous, or profoundly ignorant, to suggest that a group representing the interests of the country shouldn't be afforded more rights than those groups who want to destroy it and all it stands for.

Bill O'Riley is GENIUS posted:

Sorry, ignorant American here, but what the heck is Sharia finance?! There are similarly racist fucks over here whining about Sharia law, but Sharia finance?! Are there certain kinds of Muslim bookkeeping that are destroying the good old British ways or something? It's hard to believe this isn't all a big joke.

quote:

In his book he recalls "one man after the other laying into a small group of women, hitting them with chairs and hurling tables at them .... It was a bloody massacre.People were lying on the floor helpless, being stamped on, kicked and hit with objects picked off the walls and floor. A pregnant woman was locked in the toilet and the BNP were trying to kick their way in to get at her and her unborn baby."

Collins, a veteran of the far right at just 18, had taken part in violent attacks before, fighting men in pubs and on the football terraces. But the scene at Welling Library deeply challenged the nobility he associated with the far right's cause. "I couldn't see what freedom of speech and fighting for British democracy had to do with stamping on little old ladies' heads," he says. "It was real hatred. I began to see it was all about destroying people's lives. Violence was the only way they could affect change.

"I was standing in the library watching people getting their heads kicked in for attending a debate and discussion. I thought: I'm on the wrong side."

quote:

Stage 1: The Haters Gather

Irrational haters seldom hate alone.10 They feel compelled, almost driven, to entreat others to hate asthey do. Peer validation bolsters a sense of self-worth and, at the same time, prevents introspection, which reveals personal insecurities.11 Further, individuals otherwise ineffective become empowered when they join groups, which also provide anonymity and diminished accountability.

Stage 2: The Hate Group Defines Itself

Hate groups form identities through symbols, rituals, and mythologies, which enhance the members' status and, at the same time, degrade the object of their hate. For example, skinhead groups may adopt the swastika, the iron cross, the Confederate flag, and other supremacist symbols. Group-specific symbols or clothing often differentiate hate groups. Group rituals, such as hand signals and secret greetings, further fortify members. Hate groups, especially skinhead groups, usually incorporate some form of self-sacrifice, which allows haters to willingly jeopardize their well-being for the greater good of the cause. Giving one's life to a cause provides the ultimate sense of value and worth to life.12 Skinheads often see themselves as soldiers in a race war.

Stage 3: The Hate Group Disparages the Target

Hate is the glue that binds haters to one another and to a common cause.13 By verbally debasing the object of their hate, haters enhance their self-image, as well as their group status. In skinhead groups, racist song lyrics and hate literature provide an environment wherein hate flourishes. In fact, researchers have found that the life span of aggressive impulses increases with ideation.14 In other words, the more often a person thinks about aggression, the greater the chance for aggressive behavior to occur. Thus, after constant verbal denigration, haters progress to the next more acrimonious stage.

Stage 4: The Hate Group Taunts the Target

Hate, by its nature, changes incrementally. Time cools the fire of hate, thus forcing the hater to look inward. To avoid introspection, haters use ever-increasing degrees of rhetoric and violence to maintain high levels of agitation. Taunts and offensive gestures serve this purpose. In this stage, skinheads typically shout racial slurs from moving cars or from afar. Nazi salutes and other hand signals often accompany racial epithets. Racist graffiti also begins to appear in areas where skinheads loiter. Most skinhead groups claim turf proximate to the neighborhoods in which they live. One study indicated that a majority of hate crimes occur when the hate target migrates through the hate group's turf.15

Stage 5: The Hate Group Attacks the Target Without Weapons

This stage is critical because it differentiates vocally abusive haters from physically abusive ones. In this stage, hate groups become more aggressive, prowling their turf seeking vulnerable targets. Violence coalesces hate groups and further isolates them from mainstream society. Skinheads, almost without exception, attack in groups and target single victims. Research has shown that bias crimes are twice as likely to cause injury and four times as likely to result in hospitalization as compared to nonbias crimes.16

In addition to physical violence, the element of thrill seeking is introduced in Stage 5. Two experts found that 60 percent of hate offenders were "thrill seekers."17 The adrenaline "high" intoxicates the attackers. The initial adrenaline surge lasts for several minutes; however, the effects of adrenaline keep the body in a state of heightened alert for up to several days.18 Each successive anger- provoking thought or action builds on residual adrenaline and triggers a more violent response than the one that originally initiated the sequence.19 Anger builds on anger. The adrenaline high combined with hate becomes a deadly combination. Hard-core skinheads keep themselves at a level where the slightest provocation triggers aggression.

Stage 6: The Hate Group Attacks the Target with Weapons

Several studies confirm that a large number of bias attacks involve weapons.20 Some attackers use firearms to commit hate crimes, but skinheads prefer weapons, such as broken bottles, baseball bats, blunt objects, screwdrivers, and belt buckles. These types of weapons require the attacker to be close to the victim, which further demonstrates the depth of personal anger. Attackers can discharge firearms at a distance, thus precluding personal contact. Close-in onslaughts require the assailants to see their victims eye-to-eye and to become bloodied during the assault. Hands- on violence allows skinheads to express their hate in a way a gun cannot. Personal contact empowers and fulfills a deep-seated need to have dominance over others.

Stage 7: The Hate Group Destroys the Target

The ultimate goal of haters is to destroy the object of their hate. Mastery over life and death imbues the hater with godlike power and omnipotence, which, in turn, facilitate further acts of violence. With this power comes a great sense of self-worth and value, the very qualities haters lack. However, in reality, hate physically and psychologically destroys both the hater and the hated.

KELNOR THE OVERWASP posted:

Matthew Collins has a very good book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hate-Life-British-Far-Right/dp/1849541256/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336482665&sr=8-1

Another good book is No Retreat, a book about two trots going round bashing the fash: http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Retreat-Dave-Hann/dp/1903854229/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336482744&sr=8-1

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

It's worth pointing out that the National Front aren't a defunct group, those fascists are still active and busy losing elections
http://londonelects.org.uk/im-voter/results-and-past-elections/live-results-2012?contest=32
http://londonelects.org.uk/im-voter/results-and-past-elections/live-results-2012?contest=30
http://londonelects.org.uk/im-voter/results-and-past-elections/live-results-2012?contest=33

Serotonin posted:

I dont think thats true. It has direct lineage back to the National Front of the 1960 (the BNP founder John Tyndal was a prominent member, as was Nick Griffin and Andrew Brons- they left the NF in the 80s because they didnt agree that the best way forwward was to use politics to advance the cause of Nationalism).

Serotonin posted:

The BNP as formed by Tyndall in 82 is not the same organisation as the the 1960s
incarnation. They didnt splinter in to the NF they merged iirc. But yeah your history is pretty spot on as I understand it.

KayTee posted:

(And yes, I know the JPF/PFJ sketch was supposed to poke fun at petty factionalism on the left, but seriously - our infighting has nothing on the far right!)

DesperateDan posted:

A year or two ago I had some genuine concerns over the EDL, but watching numbers at rallies drop quite sharply, and more splinter groups than I can be arsed to count crop up, I really don't think they pose much of a national threat now.

That said, the shrinking of the group, and the subsequent splitting into factions may have isolated and radicalised them further which may put them at a greater risk of taking extreme violent action, such as when two of them tried to blow up a mosque by diverting a gas pipe then igniting it (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-11911441), and an increased tendency to single out and try and identify "leftie scum" for violent attack through sites like redwatch or FB pages like https://www.facebook.com/ExposeTheUaf .

Spiderfist Island posted:

I think they aren't just because they've been so laughably incompetent at anything other than spontaneously beating people up. Muslamic Rayguns and all that.

That being said, England's got enough hate groups that needs an equivalent to the SPLC.

mrpwase posted:

First result...





I can't even work out if this is a parody or what.

quote:

Donald ‘duckmonster’ Oorst is both breathtakingly stupid (simply view his appalling, sub primary level spelling and grammar) and a criminal liar. Criminally insane and culpably reckless though would probably cover it.

So far as this writer can ascertain the only persons to be charged in Australia with ‘Terrorism’ and in particular offences included in the relatively new so-called Counter-Terrorism legislation have been members of the Islamic faith, almost all of whom were of Arabic or Asiatic extraction. In fact this writer would go so far as to suggest there is a strong counter case for prosecuting Mr. Oorst himself under this legislation or at least in the general spirit of it.

After all, if the true intent (yeah, right) of these laws is simply to reduce the threat of terrorist acts and thereby to prevent the case of Australian citizens, residents and visitors from falling victim to such acts, then Oorst’s insistence that we close our eyes to the most obvious and proven high risk potential perpetrators such as Islamists and focus instead our sole attention and actions upon White Australian Nationalists, then this could be deemed a deliberately contrived act of distraction intended to divert and tie up precious law enforcement resources chasing and persecuting the very people who oppose Islamist extremism and every other toxic enemy of this nation more than any other.

By preparing the opportunity, through his false and misleading statements, for a crime to occur, Oorst is, within the existing criminal code, clearly an accessory before the fact. Additionally there is the fact he has entered into a process of cooperation with the criminal cabal of the Fight Dem Back group to concoct and disseminate this absurdly outrageous falsehood, along with countless other lunatic ravings, thereby participating in a criminal conspiracy.

To put it simpler, as Whitelaw Towers has said in the past, FDB is providing interference for the Islamists who, in turn and largely unwittingly, are running decoy for the Chosenites. It is yet another exemplary case of grand chutzpah of the highest order where the victim, both real and potential, is punished for having the temerity to defend himself.

Oorst and the rest of the FDB swill are so obviously puppets of the ZOG it is truly hysterically funny that they still deny it to this day. They are a really, really low rent ‘Thunderbirds’ show. You can actually see the strings. Cool Alternative? Counter-Culture? Revolutionary? Radical Reformers? Defenders Of The Rights Of The Individual? Anti-Establishment?

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!

They ARE the farking Establishment!

Never, ever, forget it.

Ichabod Sexbeast posted:

Whatever you did to piss off neonazis this much, I'm sure it counts as legitimately awesome.

Pope Guilty posted:

One thing you learn very quickly if you have any interest in fascist movements is that five nines of fascists are loving idiots even allowing for their idiotic beliefs.

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

That reminds me, what's the EDL's stance on the Irish? My vague impression of British skinhead stuff was that they hated the Irish for daring to spit on John Bull, ARE ROYAL TROOPS, etc. Is that still the case, or have they come around with some kind of "enemy of my enemy" thing, or just forgotten them entirely since they're pale?

For contrast, there were a handful of American neo-Nazi groups who voiced support for Al Qaeda of all things, something along the lines of "having the balls to take the fight right to the ZOG in Jew York" or something along those lines.

Lamuella posted:

even if you got some racist 2 tone fans (and they sadly do exist), why would you go to a gig by The Selecter of all loving bands? One of the most political and outspokenly multicultural bands 2 tone ever produced.

ekuNNN posted:

Calling the antifa Jews and Homosexuals as an insult does kind of show people your political affiliation

Kieselguhr Kid posted:

Is this just an 'enemy of my enemy' (moooslims!) thing or don't the EDL have any problems with jews? I ask this only because fascist groups seem to be in a really weird place re: jews and muslims and you're seeing some strange loving bedfellows made from this.

(Incidentally, I cannot get over the retching feeling I get whenever I see the anti-semitic right and zionists teaming up. It's a disgusting and hypocritical spectacle.)

Crane Fist posted:

The EDL's main principle is that they're anti-muslim. That's the only overriding objective they have. While the membership contains a decent amount of hangovers from the bonehead, RAC, and various far-right/football hooligan mobs of the 80s/early 90s, a solid proportion of the members wouldn't actively identify as fascist or neo-nazi at all. They don't hate jews or believe in aryan supremacy or subscribe to some twisted reading of Nietzsche. They joined the EDL because they loving hate Muslims, that's about as far as their politics go. Israel frequently oppresses and murders muslims? Well then they're alright in our book! Some dumbfuck americans are opposing the building of a mosque for any reason at all? Our brothers! It's actually pretty simple, appropriately.

I hope that made sense

Ras Het posted:

There's a Finnish Defence League too (that is, even their name is in English, funny to see a Finnish nationalist organisation that doesn't have name in Finnish). I don't know if they have any street-level presence as it is, as we haven't had much of a tradition of far-right grassroots action in the last few decades, and they seem to portray themselves as strictly a counter to "leftist media bias" (Finland has no parochial nationalist newspapers or news programmes in the Mail/Sun/Fox News tradition). The woman in the middle is their leader I think: http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/536452_339091059471317_1494646517_n.jpg

I went to school with a kid who ended up in some mental fascist circles in his late teens, and I used to keep up with their stuff through his Facebook (shame he deleted it, endless source of tragic humour); but turns out he's such a shithead that he managed to become a pariah even in our lovely hometown's neo-nazi circles, after stealing stuff from their "clubhouse". He's in prison now for beating up someone over drug debts. Bit worrying, this fellowship between organised crime and fascists.

Daktar posted:

They uh, they haven't studied much of the theory behind facism, have they?

Plutonis posted:

And yet Eastern Europe is currently TEEMING with Neonazis, even though the Nazis thought they were subhuman apes.

DesperateDan posted:

Ichabod Sexbeast posted:

A little late, but to Duckmonster and all foreign goons: We're really, really loving sorry about exporting our twats.

KayTee posted:

We have no idea for sure. Officially the EDL doesn't have "members", it's a legal loophole they use to avoid responsibility for actions on their demos. Not that they need worry - to date nearly every EDL member who has gone up in court has denied membership with the group almost immediately, sometimes the group denies the individuals membership too. We call it the EDL's Quantum Division. Where an individual was always a 'member' until they're caught doing something illegal, in which case they were never a 'member'.

I'd argue hard with the Wikipedia article. At one point Tommeh did claim that they had 100,000 'members' based purely off their Facebook likes (Later in the same interview he was called up on some of the posts on the FB page, and he said that it was "Just Facebook" and couldn't be relied on). 3 of those previous FB likes were me.

After a hacking group (Z-Company I think) took down their FB page they've struggled to get figures back up. They're currently at just under 9,000 on their FB page (they jumped up by almost 2,000 after a Dispatches programme a few months back). The Likes on the individual division pages are useless as a guide, as they encourage each 'member' to sign up to almost every Division. Again, a fair chunk of those are trolls, curious onlookers and Antifa.

The Demos have dropped drastically, from being able to pull up to 5,000 to recent demos of no more than 500. They are slowly dying as the occasions of football-riot piss-ups no longer happen, most have little to no money to attend and others realise that the EDL/BFP do not do what they thought.

At some point we're hoping that someone in a position of authority will realise now much of a drain on police forces and public money the EDL are, with so few costing so much (The last demo in Dewsbury barely topped 400, not including counter-protesters, and cost nearly £500,000) and either find a way to charge them, or proscribe them outright. A couple of MPs (Mehboob Kahn and Simon Reevell have both voiced concerns over this facet.)

OhYeah posted:

I have to say it's kind of strange to see people using the phrase "anti-fascist" in a non-ironical way. Coming from Eastern Europe "anti-fascist" means financed by Moscow to destabilize the local communities in the new democracies.

Bozza posted:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9442258/English-Defence-League-leader-to-stand-as-police-commissioner.html


My home county Don't see it going down too well though, most kids at my school who actually had Asian friends won't stand for these fucks. It'll be the village area racists, the sort who vote in Nadine Dorres, who'll enable this turd.

North Bedfordshire solidarity against the EDL.

EvilMoJoJoJo posted:

Kevin Carroll: ignorant thug.



I saw a picture of him (supposedly, anyway) in a balaclava next to a burning cross floating around on twitter, but can't find it now. Anyone happen to have saved it?

Baracula posted:

Aren't some of those symbols kosher certification? I thought the EDL were down with the jews

goddamnedtwisto posted:

It's slightly complicated. Some (most) Muslims are absolutely fine with kosher meat as-is as they accept Jews as Brothers Of The Book, and consider Jehovah and Allah's name to be interchangeable to satisfy the requirement for the slaughter of the animal to be in the name of Allah (the actual mechanics of the slaughter being the same).

Some are a bit more hardcore and make an additional prayer over the meat to "convert" it to halal, and there's a bit of holy lawyering for them - slaughterhouses will have a Jewish person make the slaughter and then a Muslim person say a prayer over the meat as it leaves the assembly line or vice versa so as to be able to satisfy the more conservative members of both religion.

There's also a growing community who, similar to Reformed Judaism, see the requirement as actually just to eat clean food prepared properly and so accept any non-haraam food without the need for the ritual - particularly those who know or suspect the truth, that the vast majority of "blessing" is purely theoretical in modern butchering and that the certification bodies just rock up once a year to make sure there's someone of the right faith on site at some point.

This, by the way, is why there are quite a few different certification marks for both kosher and halal, to reflect these differing standards - so one mark simply certifies there's no pork (or camel, for that matter) or insects or other forbidden matter in it, one certifies that the kill is actually made with the prayer (IIRC there are two different prayers too and some marks differentiate), one that it's kosher for Passover, etc.


Well in theory a prayer is said over each animal as the killing cut is made (I say in theory because most modern slaughtering is done entirely mechanically, they might have a guy looking over the machine saying a prayer once in a while). The question is, why should Christians give a poo poo? I've never quite understood this weird inferiority complex they have over things like this. It reminds me of that bullshit about coating bullets in pigs blood - if you're a Christian surely you believe a Muslim is going to Hell anyway, regardless of how they die? Likewise why would a prayer to a god you think doesn't exist (quiet at the back there with that Abrahammic poo poo) possibly shake your ability to go to Heaven?

Stottie Kyek posted:

EDL bastards spray graffiti on a young family's new home.

My favourite part (if that's the word) is that these fine examples of the master race drew their Nazi swastika the wrong way round.

Enjoy posted:

"Nick Griffin is a Nazi" does have a lot more clarity

TinTower posted:

I can attest to the attitude of "if you're not with us, you must be a pedo" that the fash seem to have these days. When they were (apparently) up in Keighley a month ago to protest child grooming I posted on twitter a message to the effect of "funny, don't remember them protesting the pope's state visit...", and someone tweeted me back within five minutes asking if I agreed with "gooming".

TinTower posted:

I think in the case of Keighley it was because all but one of the convicted defendants was Muslim.

So it's not a gay-bashing thing, it's a Paki-bashing thing.