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Truga posted:raytracing will probably be good in 10 years when some math guy stumbles upon a way to do raytracing cheaper than classic rendering on a modern gpu Lmao look at the AMD user
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Mar 27, 2024 13:51
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nvidia has the same problem unless you shell out 2000e
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Mar 27, 2024 13:54
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Path tracing owns. The future is now.
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Mar 27, 2024 13:57
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Love path tracing. Your loss, luddites.
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Mar 27, 2024 14:24
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You guys get over 20 fps? Jealous.
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Mar 27, 2024 14:47
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Truga posted:nvidia has the same problem unless you shell out 2000e My 3080 could do ray tracing just fine, and sometimes without even enabling DLSS. It's not really a major overhead tax any longer for mid-range Nvidia GPUs (this is based off of current $400 pricing, not saying it was mid-range at launch)
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Mar 27, 2024 15:32
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change my name posted:major overhead tax any longer for mid-range Nvidia GPUs Come on now, I have a 4080 and ray tracing will still halve the FPS on all sorts of titles.
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Mar 27, 2024 15:34
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Zero VGS posted:Come on now, I have a 4080 and ray tracing will still halve the FPS on all sorts of titles. Yes but with DLSS enabled it's usually fine up through 4K (except if you max out AW2)
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Mar 27, 2024 15:49
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A lot of "Stop Having Fun" energy
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Mar 27, 2024 16:03
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I have to admit it was interesting to fire up quake rtx and max out everything and play around a little. Next thing I know, my leg was getting warm because of all of the heat coming off of the 4090. Opened performance monitor and I’ve never seen a graphics card maxed out like that while the cpu was literally idle. I’m pretty new to good graphics cards though, maybe that’s normal idk. I bought it mostly to play with AI and the most taxing game I’ve really played is gta5
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Mar 27, 2024 16:08
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Lockback posted:A lot of "Stop Having Fun" energy That’s been the MO for this thread for several years now. Seems like some people can’t stand the thought of others spending money and enjoying their big kids toys. It’s weird.
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Mar 27, 2024 16:12
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a shitpost followed by a few people complaining about the hit raytracing takes "they're criticizing me for spending money on a gpu" 
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Mar 27, 2024 16:35
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Inept posted:a shitpost followed by a few people complaining about the hit raytracing takes That’s not what my post was about at all. I was making a general statement about this threads long running aversion to just enjoying the hobby and having fun.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:01
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"just enjoying the hobby" doesn't mean you need a $1500 piece of equipment, and if you do buy something for that much you don't have to love the price.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:07
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Bloopsy posted:That’s not what my post was about at all. I was making a general statement about this threads long running aversion to just enjoying the hobby and having fun. It's a thread full of enthusiasts. Of loving course people are going to nitpick edge cases and argue about the most optimal stuff. That's what enthusiasts do, whether you're talking about video games or bicycles or cooking. Me, I think RT is cool and dgaf if my FPS is *gasp* merely in the 60s. Or  even in the 30s/40s if it's not a twitch shooter. I know, I know, I'll pass the smelling salts. I just assume I have bad, lovely, old gamer eyes and yield the field to the kiddos who can still tell the difference between 90 and 120. That said, if chasing Big Number is what someone likes or they can really tell the difference?
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Mar 27, 2024 17:07
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Bloopsy posted:That’s not what my post was about at all. I was making a general statement about this threads long running aversion to just enjoying the hobby and having fun. Then make a thread where no one is allowed to complain and can only be hypeeeee about the latest GPUs This thread is often funniest when it's making fun of dumb GPU poo poo
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Mar 27, 2024 17:14
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Anyone else here old enough to remember when people were having this same argument about 3D gaming at 16bit color vs 32bit color with a performance hit? If I recall correctly the 3Dfx cards took the biggest hit with 32bit, and a lot of people still had Voodoo’s. Anyways after playing halfway through AW2 with path tracing, the thought of switching it off seems ridiculous. Just like playing Quake 3 at 16bit color.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:18
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Inept posted:Then make a thread where no one is allowed to complain and can only be hypeeeee about the latest GPUs This is a good idea. 1 thread for having fun and 1 for conducting class warfare via big kids toys.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:20
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Computer hardware is way cheaper than most other hobbies I can think of. Heck, my golf lessons are like $160/hr.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:24
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entirely on the account of my gpu starting to die during lockdown, games are now my most expensive hobby by far and prices have somehow stayed that way lmao. it was never a cheap hobby, and it is now an expensive hobby unless you're lucky and have a well paying job
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Mar 27, 2024 17:31
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I'm sorry but compared to my Ferraris it's a really cheap hobby, sorry you can't afford real hardware. E: Should also add "even with 2020-2021 GPU prices gaming is really cheap in entertainment hours / $" to the mix IMO. orcane fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Mar 27, 2024 |
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Mar 27, 2024 17:37
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Animal posted:Anyone else here old enough to remember when people were having this same argument about 3D gaming at 16bit color vs 32bit color with a performance hit? If I recall correctly the 3Dfx cards took the biggest hit with 32bit, and a lot of people still had Voodoo’s. 3dfx couldn't do 32-bit color at all until the voodoo 5, they coasted on the same feature set for years but yeah same argument
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Mar 27, 2024 17:38
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Nfcknblvbl posted:Computer hardware is way cheaper than most other hobbies I can think of. Heck, my golf lessons are like $160/hr. oh wow, look at richie rich over here "la dee da i have an even more expensive hobby than gaming, you poor idiots. Jeffrey, prepare the Bentley for a trip to the range"
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Mar 27, 2024 17:39
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you can get a 1660 super for $70 on eBay these days, and it will still handle nearly everything at 1080p/60 high settings. I don’t think it has really gotten that much more expensive to get in the door, but I do think people’s appetites have grown.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:40
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Nfcknblvbl posted:Computer hardware is way cheaper than most other hobbies I can think of. Heck, my golf lessons are like $160/hr. it's way more expensive than most other hobbies i can think of. if golf (with professional golf lessons) is the first alternative hobby to cross your mind then lmao
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Mar 27, 2024 17:42
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non-voodoo gpus didn't see any perf hit when moving to 32bit color by like 1998, i certainly don't remember seeing any difference in framerate in q2 when comparing settings very expensive nvidia cards still see a big perf hit when enabling raytracing, so we're clearly not there yet, and it'll get worse when lovely console ports start doing bad raytracing implementations because they assume you're running FSR2 at performance setting to have the game playable lol
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Mar 27, 2024 17:43
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Nfcknblvbl posted:Computer hardware is way cheaper than most other hobbies I can think of. Heck, my golf lessons are like $160/hr. I have a friend who scoffs at what my PCs cost but doesn’t think twice about spending the equivalent amount on bats and cleats for beer league softball each year.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:44
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Cygni posted:you can get a 1660 super for $70 on eBay these days, and it will still handle nearly everything at 1080p/60 high settings. I don’t think it has really gotten that much more expensive to get in the door, but I do think people’s appetites have grown. If we call the 3090 & 4090 Titans then they really haven't gone up much after adjusting for inflation. Except for the Turing Titan, drat that was expensive.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:45
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LRADIKAL posted:oh wow, look at richie rich over here "la dee da i have an even more expensive hobby than gaming, you poor idiots. Jeffrey, prepare the Bentley for a trip to the range" Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:it's way more expensive than most other hobbies i can think of. if golf (with professional golf lessons) is the first alternative hobby to cross your mind then lmao I'm just naming a hobby I got into that's more expensive, jeez.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:46
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I hope we get a 5090 that's a full 2x the performance of the 4090 at a $2500 MSRP. Give it to us Nvidia, you know you can.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:46
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Lenny in his shack with a $3000 computer “Please don’t tell people i live like this” Moe at the lie detector “great i’m going to home to play games on my 4090 *Errn!* 4080 *errn!* 3060 *errn!* ok fine my 1030 *ding! Golf is a good hobby *errn!
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Mar 27, 2024 17:52
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Not a spectacular deal but the price of OG 4070 tis has dropped off a cliff as retailers clear their old stock out, MSI is selling the triple-fan model for $700: https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GeForce-RTX-4070-12G/dp/B0CHBRB5CB/, and Newegg has the Zotac one for $690: https://www.newegg.com/zotac-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-zt-d40710d-10p/p/N82E16814500545?Item=N82E16814500545
change my name fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Mar 27, 2024 |
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Mar 27, 2024 17:57
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I'm more of an enthusiast when it comes to improving price performance, power efficiency, and getting more for your money this year than you could've last year. Top tier GPUs are also really cool but not as exciting as I'll never ever ever be able to own one.
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Mar 27, 2024 17:59
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If you’re into efficiency then you’re in luck cause there isn’t any more room for power consumption in PCs.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:01
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So here's a dirty secret about raytracing, speaking as someone who has been building graphics engines since the late 80's and has written a handful of raytracers -- it'll never really happen. People have been talking about real time raytracing since the mid 90's, when it became clear CPU (and later GPU) power would eventually enable it. And to be clear, what people are calling ray tracing today isn't what was traditionally called ray tracing... mostly for marketing purposes. Real ray tracing runs some number of rays per pixel on the screen, running a physics engine on surfaces and handling reflection, refraction and bounces, whereas what games like this are doing is running a subset of rays as input to shaders and other rendering techniques. When CPUs first got to the point where you could do real-time "real" raytracing in the late 90's, it didn't get implemented because people wanted more resolution or more detailed geometry and textures. So that's where the compute went. And with every increase of processing capability, the same thing has happened -- compute went to higher resolutions, or later higher framerates, or more detailed geometry and textures. And the why is simple -- its always cheaper to use rendering tricks than to run the physics of a light ray. For a 4K image with real tracing, you'd be running hundreds of millions of casts per frame, tens of billions or more per second, east cast using a not-inconsequential number of floating point operations. So a bunch of years ago some marketing yahoo decided they could implement the hardware needed to do it more efficiently and use the output of them to provide better shadow detail, or to do limited simulation of reflections and refractions, and call it ray tracing. And what happened? Same thing as before -- developers realized they could use that compute time to get faster framerates, or process more geometry, or run more compute-intensive shaders with far more bang-for-the-buck. So ray-tracing (or, ray-traced inputs to shaders) is only really done as a marketing thing in games these days -- because it sounds fancy and sites like DF can post videos about how such-and-such game has slightly better bounce lighting and shadows, etc. And next generation the same thing is going to happen -- games will use that compute time on the GPU for LLM processing. Or even greater framerate, or 8K rendering, or real-time re-encoding for streaming, or any of a thousand other things that have a higher bang-for-the-buck. Raytracing isn't going to happen until rendering is happening at or beyond the limit of human vision at framerates higher than people can perceive, and geometry has reached the point of absolute realism. Then the GPU performance gains will be spent on it.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:35
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UHD posted:3dfx couldn't do 32-bit color at all until the voodoo 5, they coasted on the same feature set for years Yes I remember now, 32bit is unnecessary and it slows down cards that can run it and NVIDIA is a dead end company that isn’t going anywhere.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:36
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MarcusSA posted:Raytracing isn't going to happen until rendering is happening at or beyond the limit of human vision at framerates higher than people can perceive, and geometry has reached the point of absolute realism. Then the GPU performance gains will be spent on it. I personally dont think many gamers know/care that they won't ever get full raytraced lighting, they just want the games to look good. And even the limited RT being implemented now does make games look better, so they (and I) like it. Whether its worth the performance cost is up to the end user, but its pretty clear that lots of people value fidelity over frames and are willing to take the performance hit for better reflections and shadows, so its not going away any time soon. Which is good, because I like it. If something better comes along, great! People just want the games to look as good as possible.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:56
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MarcusSA posted:So here's a dirty secret about raytracing, speaking as someone who has been building graphics engines since the late 80's and has written a handful of raytracers -- it'll never really happen. This whole post reads like a kneejerk response written 5 years ago that turned out incorrect.
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Mar 27, 2024 18:58
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Animal posted:Anyone else here old enough to remember when people were having this same argument about 3D gaming at 16bit color vs 32bit color with a performance hit? If I recall correctly the 3Dfx cards took the biggest hit with 32bit, and a lot of people still had Voodoo’s. As a side-note, I recently got a Voodoo 3 for a retro computer, which I never had before (I had a TNT2 Ultra at the time.) I always thought that the "22-bit color" output was bullshit, but what do you know, with the filter enabled it does look better than other cards at 16-bit color. It isn't as good as true 32-bit color, of course, but a lot of older games only supported 16-bit color anyway. Now I kind of want a Voodoo 4 4500 or Voodoo 5 5500 to get that, 32-bit color support, and to enable MSAA for old games (especially Glide games) but those are ridiculously expensive.
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Mar 27, 2024 20:12
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Twerk from Home posted:I hope we get a 5090 that's a full 2x the performance of the 4090 at a $2500 MSRP. Give it to us Nvidia, you know you can. I don't know how a 5090 will perform but we can kind of guess on the lower ranges based on how Nvidia has positioned previous cards. The 2070 was in between the 1080 and 1080Ti, the 3070 is roughly equal to a 2080Ti, the 4070 performs about the same as a 3080. So the 5070 ought to end up somewhere around a 4080-4080Ti in performance.
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Mar 27, 2024 20:20
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