Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017
Fresh ad off a newsletter from one of the main Italian pc parts webstore(newegg/microcenter grade, not a mom&pops gpu bodega)



Translation: "Graphic cards suitable for gaming and mining"

If nvidia is demanding retailers to behave and sell only to gamers they are not doing a very good job in :italy:

SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jan 24, 2018

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Paul MaudDib posted:

For the record, I'm also pretty sure that this is an EU-specific problem. It's a US-sized market, but most of the EU states refuse to sell to each other (golly, what if that person from Greece scammed me, my insurance wouldn't cover that because it's interstate) and so there is virtually zero competition. Every state has like one or two major retailers, tops, and they don't really compete with each other. I do feel for them a little, because there is no EU version of the USPS, just 20 individual postal services, and some of them are really lovely about making sure packages aren't stolen, or that there isn't some scam from the mafia, or whatever. There are places in the EU that I won't ship to either. But by and large there isn't much interstate commerce even between the less shady countries, pretty much it's just that they don't have any competition because everyone in the EU is super nationalistic about their little state, both on the retail and the insurance side of things.

US prices are nosediving like crazy because we have Amazon, Newegg, Best Buy, Microcenter, Fry's, B+H, Adorama, Antonline, etc etc. If Newegg won't cut prices, then B+H will, and Amazon will follow, etc. The US market is a lot more market-efficient because it's a larger singular market with no trade barriers.

What drugs are you on because that must be some real good poo poo, everybody in europe will crosscheck prices with Germany in the worst case, most likely Germany, Austria, France, Italy and Slovenia before committing to everything online worth more than 50€.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Paul MaudDib posted:

It's quite common for EU retailers to refuse to ship to other EU countries. Mindfactory doesn't. Scan.co.uk doesn't. Komplett doesn't. Those are some big names in PC-building in the EU, no?

And it's really common for smaller stores to not ship internationally either. Pulling the first 5 names I came across in this thread of Swedish retailers - Komplett, Netonnet, Mediamarkt, Webhallen, and Inet - none of them ship to other EU countries. I think one would ship to Finland or Norway, but not to the EU generally.

There are some that do, like Alternate and OCUK, but it would be absolutely unthinkable for any online retailer in the US to refuse to ship to Tennessee or Alabama or something.

I am living in italy which last time i checked is in Europe, I could pick up the phone and call any german computer shop to get a quote and buy any pc part without a hitch(a good chunk of my electronic kits have been bought in german webstores), hell if i want i could go to the ekwb store and buy coolers directly from them in Slovenia(they are a hour and change drive from my place). You have picked a poor choice of stores, mediamarkt for instance will only sell with its local country(like amazon) due to marketing not any statute of law limitation(and it does exist in italy as mediaworld so its not like i couldn't buy from them either).

SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Jul 15, 2018

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Paul MaudDib posted:

Call up Mindfactory.de and let me know how it goes for you.


Glad you have now accepted that many EU retailers do not sell to people living in other EU member states. That was my whole point. That is absolutely unthinkable in the US. Newegg refusing to ship to Tennessee, say, would be mindboggling.

(Amazon actually ships internationally, AFAIK, and they also have a separate storefront for each country)


Sure, I never said it was a legal limitation in the first place. It's definitely marketing. Also probably the duty to collect VAT, some stores just don't want to go through the hassle of remitting 27 different VATs over 10K euro worth of sales (this does not apply to major retailers like Mindfactory, Scan, or Komplett, that would have enough volume to definitely make it worth it, that's purely marketing).

But it's not some mystery why EU prices are higher when you have much less competition. Collectively, what you have is a market where stores don't compete with each other and they don't have to drop prices aggressively when some other store in another state does.

(insofar as prices are higher than US+exchange rate+VAT, which they aren't always)

Amazon does the same bullshit, if you live in italy for instance it will throw an atomic shitfit if you attempt to use the french or german webfront.

The VAT thing is a non-issue, it's on the buyer not the seller to handle the VAT deltas, if you got a VAT number you handle it on your own, if you don't you should handle it during transit with your tax agency but its so tiny most countries wont waste their time on that.

Never heard about mindfactory, like scan.co.uk that is a local shop with a limited scope, like eprice.it is in italy.

You want a europe wide webshop? Nierle. Works in the whole eu without a single hitch. Same for mikroe, you could buy from them local(it could be faster for me to get my car and drive there than to wait for international shipping) or buy from them online. For computer parts i could use techdata if i ever feel compelled to reactivate my vat number. Its not like you say that there are impossible barriers to jump to buy online, its just on the buyer to find for better offers(a good chunk of small to medium pc/ hobby electronics shops in EU now use ebay or amazon as a webstore front so it's kinda easy to buy from them now, no phone or email required).

SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Jul 15, 2018

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Mayne posted:

Mindfactory is probably the largest EU shop and they have best prices, it really hosed me over when they suddenly decided to stop shipping to other countries.

Hmm they don't seem so good with prices, I managed to pricematch them on a random asus mobo(z370a in this case) in a single amazon.it search(I could go deeper if i try ebay store fronts), I dont feel like I'm missing on much by not being able to buy from them.

SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Jul 15, 2018

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Paul MaudDib posted:

Mindfactory is one of the largest German retailers, Scan is one of the largest UK retailers, Komplett is one of the largest Scandanavian retailers. It's not some one-off thing, I gave you lots of examples.

I guess to put it in your terms, we don't have "local retailers with online storefronts" in the US. If a US business puts up a website, it's because they are trying to sell across the whole US, including to other states. So in this terminology, all of your "local businesses" are actually international stores here. So, with so many more international stores, you can see why we have more competition on pricing.

(there are still mom+pop stores that don't sell online at all, of course, that is what we would consider "local" here)

Exactly, they are all stores that cater to a specific country( I wouldn't be surprised that they are limiting sales just to avoid handling customer complaints from across the eu, written/spoken english skills in the eurozone are varied to say the least), i never meant to single them out as tiny or "mom and pop". Eprice.it, which i would still catalog as a local-scope shop(they cater exclusively to the italian market, no shipping outside the country), is pretty much the main computer parts store here and it pulls millions in sales not hundreds of euro. You cannot possibly compare the us and the eurozone, you are comparing a single country with regional districts and multiple nations with a loosely tied legal framework.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Saukkis posted:

When the store's annual sales to specific country exceed some amount, which is different for every country, then it becomes the seller's responsibility to pay the VAT.

They have lowered the limits since the last tim e i checked, still it's a minimum burden(track foreign sales and keep a tab on each euzone country total vat to pay) to get extra sales in a recession :shrug:

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017
I did the upgrade to 417 yesterday and did some testing on my Samsung 32Uj590 display(I know it's a cheap one but I use my pc so little i don't notice the shortcomings), i wanted to add two things for whoever wanted to activate gsync-compatible on a Samsung monitor:

- You need to activate freesync on the monitor first, then open nvidia panel
- Use freesync standard mode, extreme mode is nausea inducing(which was the mode likely on the youtube ces test someone posted a few pages back).

If you want a quick test, the old nvidia pendulum demo is still up and will trigger the monitor freesync faults.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017
Displayport 2.0 has been announced, thunderbolt 3 based(using the two lanes in a bonded unidirectional way to offer 80gbps of bandwidth with active cables, otherwise the cable will offer 40gbps). Target resolutions(without compression?) are 8K@60hz HDR / >8K@60Hz SDR / 4K@144Hz HDR / 2x 5K@60Hz

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14590/vesa-announces-displayport-20-standard-bandwidth-for-8k-monitors-beyond

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017
I have a gigabyte 1070 founder edition, purchased in an openbox condition a couple of months after launch for 400€. Since i use my pc just to check email, shitpost and watch youtube, I'm hardly pressed to replace it. I'm more likely to replace my current frankenmonitor(https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/5c6f1324) than my gpu since nvidia equivalents are motorbike prices rather than computer parts ones.

SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 12:20 on May 23, 2023

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Zero VGS posted:

Maybe a dumb question, but does it matter whether there's one or two if they lock all the consumer cards to 5 concurrent sessions?

Encoding latency, two distinct cores don't have to share the frame loads. Going more than two feeds, even on a two core card, work fine for archival/offline encoding but on live encoding you get bad lag from ingress to output.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Voxx posted:

either that or the card falling over in 2025 when they drop support

I think that, beside asus custom fuckery, an edge connector is a better pick that the weird connector choices provided by PCIe SIG. I wouldn't be suprised that, after the 12VHPWR burn out fiasco, they will likely create a standardized edge connector for power delivery.

Edge connectors is what you see on server hotplug PSU which are far over 600w in output.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Zero VGS posted:

Just do a loving two-wire cable with XT60 on both ends that goes from the mobo to the GPU already. Bam, all set for the rest of eternity.

As long as the board doesn't go over 720W at 12V (XT60 is rated for 60A).

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

repiv posted:

i would have thought that a board with that many layers would already have dedicated power and ground planes covering the entire board, so you can tap 12V anywhere for "free"

it probably is more complicated than that in practice though

Issue is more on the thickness of layers than number of layers, since it needs to be 600w+ it's a far bigger ask than the current chipset requirement of 6w and PCIe board power at 75w. It's doable, it just requires some extra design effort.

mobby_6kl posted:

Then XT90 just in case, that should be good enough for a while



Well yeah, if GPU start requiring more than 1080W i'd like to get off the gaming builder ride.

SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 14:58 on May 29, 2023

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017
I sorta missed the edge connector power feasibility debate yesterday but i wanted to point to this:

https://www.te.com/usa-en/products/connectors/pcb-connectors/card-edge-connectors/card-edge-power-connectors.html?tab=pgp-story

The chunkiest one can handle up to 3.4KW, enough to saturate the average household power in Europe.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Cantide posted:

Nvidia making Stuff like this is cool and all but the enthusiast in me worries about the end of consumer hardware and the coming cloud computing hellscape :tinfoil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It9D08W8Z7o

My dream would be to go back to a sorta 3dfx era, where the local pc does 2d and video encode/decode and calls an ondemand 3d accelerator in a cloud datacenter. Even on FTTH, latency is too big for a similar scenario and passive optical networks are not going to improve on that front(with the time division multiplex that is characteristic of xPON) soon tho.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

gradenko_2000 posted:

I've watched HWUB's take on the NVidia keynote, but not GN's - though I assume that it might be along similar lines

my understanding of it is, NVidia is going heavy on AI, because they anticipate that it's the Hot New Thing, and they want to see if they can pivot from "we made big bucks selling silicon to crypto miners" to "we made big bucks selling silicon to AI prompt engineers [or whatever]"

now, I get it if this means that NVidia's future GPUs are of middling/bad value that they won't care if it doesn't sell well because what choice do gamers have and they'll make the bulk of their profits from the data center space anyway

but HWUB seemed to be saying that gamers would be "competing" with people who want AI computing power for GPUs, in the same way that gamers were "competing" with miners for GPUs...

... and that one I don't quite follow, because I thought that most AI work was done in the cloud, by servers?

like I posted that hot take that this AI stuff was going to reinvigorate the notion of having lots of horsepower on your desktop again, but apparently it was dumb because you wouldn't use your desktop for AI. And if that's true, then gamers wouldn't really be fighting for GPU stock, right? Like the quality/value might be bad but the data center space isn't exactly hitting up Microcenter for boxes of RTX

AI researchers that don't have big bucks usually rent servers with GPU in it. This is a short summary about Azure choices https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/sizes-gpu.
So you are going to see the big buyers (Microsoft, Amazon and Google) grabbing GPU silicon in bulk, then the big spender onprem datacenter operators(like university and other government entities) and then the consumer space.

A nearby university datacenter purchased NV Teslas by the pallet for god knows what amount when the big miner craze was in full effect and got the card in give or take months from the order.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

MikusR posted:

The latency on highest tier Geforce Now is lower than a local console and a tv.

Geforce now does both roles (visualization and compute), my wish was for running the game onprem(so inputs and visualization) and then calling the datacenter only for the 3d calculations. That way you are not beholden on playing just the games that geforce now has installed on their nodes.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Taima posted:

What is the best GPU showcase title right now?

I'm tempted to say Last of Us. I'm just blown away by how good that game looks. It's like playing a pre-rendered cutscene but in the best way.

The audio mix is also out of this world, we have two cats and they normally understand what's a speaker noise and what's a real life noise. You could play some obnoxious games and they wouldn't bat an eye.

The 7.1 Atmos mix in TLOU is the one game that regularly fucks with them. They get startled all the time by random noises. I genuinely don't know what separates the audio in this game from other ones but it's so well done that you feel completely immersed in whatever it going on. Even just the simple feeling of being in a rain storm is so convincingly modeled. It's unreal.

Anyways, the reason I'm searching for the most awesome looking PC games is because I have a good friend coming through in a few weeks and I am trying to figure out a game or two we can play that would really make his day! TLOU is definitely on the menu. It really seems to me that the best looking titles are always Sony ports. Maybe that's hyperbolic but all of the games I've appreciated graphically recently are all Sony joints. They also usually support DLSS well which is huge.

Crysis remastered at full tilt for old times sake?

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

genericnick posted:

This doesn't occur with Displayport, but that's only 1.4 so not great for 4k hdr.

Displayport 1.4 can handle 8k resolutions, so 4k hdr will do fine.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Zero VGS posted:

If you have the room in your case, I would just use the normal PSU cables with the dongle that comes with the 4080 first, before getting in to that stuff. It doesn't add that much extra cabling, and you won't be out $30 if you have to change PSU.

It's good to check that the included dongle works first too. If you resell the GPU later that might save someone a headache.

Since it's a modular PSU, you will go PSU->Multiple modular wires->Adapter->GPU, which isn't the best in volume and possibilities of partial connections/disconnects during mainteinance. A 30$ dedicated wire is a better choice given how easy is to gently caress up proper insertion of 12VHPWR .

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

SourKraut posted:

It seems like everyone is getting into the GPU business now. Asrock, Acer, Lenovo

Acer and Lenovo is a no brainer since they make gamer desktops, so they need GPUs anyway. ASRock is madman asus, so that's also check out.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Twerk from Home posted:

I'm not going to be satisfied until ASRock crams one into an M.2 board with a tower cooler on it or something.

4x PCIe 4 would be plenty anyway!

They'll make it mxm, m.2 would be too common.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Shipon posted:

8k is wholly, entirely overkill anyway, 4k is already close to visual acuity limits for any reasonable viewing distances

unless you're talking VR tbqh

Much like 4k on the ps4 pro, it's only to move televisions sets. 8k is the new thing and Sony wants to milk dumb nerds with disposable income.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Twerk from Home posted:

Microsoft has repeatedly told investors and gamers that they aren't doing a pro console refresh this time around, interesting that Sony would.

Isn't the series S their sale leader? It would make more sense to update that before the X, or update both SKU as the same time.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017
All that my One X is doing is showing Prime Video, Youtube, Disney + and other video services with intermittent forza horizon 3&4 gaming sessions. I don't feel like upgrading really, if the hard drive dies i will just replace it with a 1TB SSD and keep using it until it dies.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

njsykora posted:

Gives up is a bit harsh, it’s clearly trying. It’s not succeeding but it’s trying.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

repiv posted:

DLSS: 3.0 The Frames Are (Not) Real

Pictured: a 4090 doing a 8k frame

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Rinkles posted:

Isn't the big asterisk that the cooling module itself will be power hungry, or am I thinking of something else?

E: Which I guess wouldn't be an issue on desktops

Their home page states that each module eats 1.75w to cool 5.75(mini) or 10.5 watts of heat. It's only going to cool ultraportables and nucs.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Mega Comrade posted:

I can honestly see Linus (or whomever is CEO now) hiring a full PR fix team over the damage this week has done to the brand.

I doubt it, the decorative ceo isn't the owner so he doesn't have powers to muzzle Linus or hire people whose job is to say stuff against dear leader.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017
How much pain can the law bring down for mobbing and other work related harassment in Canada? LTT haters crowdfunding a real set of work lawyers to properly gently caress Linus up would be top 2023.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

jisforjosh posted:

I had already unsubbed but her experience has made me tell youtube to not recommend their channels to me lest I accidentally give them views

Setting youtube to not recommend me channels that use the "youtube face" has pretty much broken the suggestion algorithm in my case, to the point that it's suggesting videos that i watched or new videos from my subscriptions, nothing else.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Yudo posted:

I think the point of taking advantage of young people should not be lost. Many LTT hires have little basis to compare work environments. Their first job is their dream job. Try to pull that "small business stuff" on experienced labor and either pay through the nose or have very high turnover. That poo poo isn't okay, and there is no excuse for treating workers poorly.

It's sad that schools rarely teach pupils about not making their hobbies/love their work. It hides workplace issues and makes for bad work/life separation.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

Bloody Hedgehog posted:

I think we're at 50/50 odds now at seeing Linus fully stepping down from appearing on camera, and possibly leaving the company.

He is too self-centered and egocentric to stop, he is going to shut it down before going in the background/leaving.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017
Given how insanely advanced and accurate modern TV upscaling is, I wonder if it would be less complex to put a proper hardware upscaler in low-mid range cards instead of relying on ML and per-game integration.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

spunkshui posted:

Give an example then.

Show me an another example software that has a paid sponsorship to make some hardware features not work.

Diamond used to request custom builds for certain games to include along their cards, especially during the s3 virge era. I remember a few friends getting stung at gaming cons fetching destruction derby discs only to fail to load without a virge card.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

SourKraut posted:

call it DirectSS

It would only work for german players in WarThunder that way.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

MikusR posted:

Why would you want that?

The few nerds at the office that requested it justify it as that they run excel and word by muscle memory and the different menus makes them waste time to relearn the workflows.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

repiv posted:

how are the arc cards on linux, is it as smooth as AMD if you want high performance drivers for gaming

If you are interested in video encode/decode or ML, the intel linux drivers are good. I have no idea about gaming :( .

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

kliras posted:

looks like larian was able to get a feature parity exemption for the xbox series s. wonder what kind of pull with xbox you need for something like that

https://twitter.com/LarAtLarian/status/1694737127978783157

Letting PS5 having an exclusivity period due to unability to make it run on S is a far worse option. Opening the floodgates isn't a good scenario either since the S is the most common SKU.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply