Final Fantasy Megathread - People here, it sounds like sickness

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Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Pesky Splinter posted:

I've always thought the first half of the story was the strongest, up until they hit Japan and then it meanders pointlessly.

Yuri is a likeable character, Karin and some of the others...not so much. It's goofy and it's fun and that why I like it. It's not everyday in a JRPG that the characters take the piss out of a boss or break the fourth wall, or goof off, without needing to be supergrim all the time. It was fun, and I was having fun playing it, even if it has flaws.

FtNW just tried to hard. "Wow, these characters sure are zany! A Polish-ninja trained in the Amazon rainforest in Brazil and collects weapons like Joachim! They'd love it if we shamelessly reuse character archtypes and not come up with anything new! Unless it's zany! Or annoying!"

What you thought about FtNW I felt about SHC. I'm all for rpgs that don't take themselves seriously, but it felt like it was trying too hard to be seen as unique/quirky, whatever. I have the same opinion about Earthbound and all Mario RPGS, where simple things are taken to such an extreme that they become quirky stuff seemingly just because it'd be cool to be quirky.

Endorph posted:

The first Shadow Hearts is probably the best, anyway, and I liked the other two. It manages to be goofy and not take itself amazingly seriously while still not falling into stupidity like FtNW, or kinda sorta meandering like Covenant.

I did like SH1, which is a big proponent as to why I disliked SHC.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2012 20:53

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 16:40

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Well, I've only played Super Mario RPG and Mario & Luigi for GBA. M&L is the one I felt this most about, because it took place in this quirky setting with quirky characters where you'd fight quirky one thousand year old sodas that have turned evil and you're supposed to laugh because - haha - it's quirky!

I tend to prefer the Dragon Quest/Chrono Trigger/Skies of Arcadia route, where its lightheartedness comes from its utter simplicity and the amount of heart that goes into the writing, rather than appearing transparently whimsical. This is why I like games like Blue Dragon, and in some ways Final Fantasy X-2. X-2 is weird, but it's also got a lot of serious moments, and it's lighthearted without trying to be edgy. But more than that, it has a great message that I wholeheartedly support. Somehow, I like Mother 3's tone more than Earthbound's. It's toned down to a point, but it still has the characteristically unique scenario and characters, but not to a degree where it's annoying.

I'm really weird about tone. I dislike games that try too hard to be seen as quirky (the games discussed), but on the other hand can't stand games that take themselves too loving seriously (Metal Gear Solid 4).

Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jul 7, 2012

# ¿ Jul 7, 2012 21:04

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

The best ps2 rpg series (that's not SMT, of course) is the Dark Cloud series. :colbert:

Yeah, I said it.

I would kill for someone make a Dark Cloud clone.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2012 21:13

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

The White Dragon posted:

All this talk about FF4 reminds me of the first time I ever played it. I had so much trouble with Baigan because I relied heavily on casters. That Wall was a gigantic roadblock for me.

Then I got to Kainazzo and I was all "oh no he's a superboss, I hope I don't die! I didn't save after Baigan or anything!" And then I wiped the floor with the guy because I could actually use my magic.

Oh man, you're telling me. That was tough the first time I played it, and after that long trek through that sewer, too!

# ¿ Jul 9, 2012 04:10

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

X-2 is a top-tier FF and I won't listen to anything anyone else says about it. :colbert:

# ¿ Jul 13, 2012 07:48

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Gammatron 64 posted:

I know it's been said about a billion times before, but FF6 is great.

Honestly, I love FF4 / 5 / 6 / 7 a lot. They're just plain old fun games. A lot of later FF games just... aren't. A lot of them are just a boring chore, and/or overly pretentious \ self-important.

I think things started going wrong with FF8. From then on, most of the games took on a more straight-faced serious tone (despite being inherently ridiculous) and became more about giving us fancy visuals than... well, making the games fun. Part of the reason why I like 9 and 11 a lot is that they're really kind of throwbacks to the SNES games in terms of visual style and tone. Those two are notably more comical and cartoony than they are melodramatic. (Although XI is kinda paradoxical in that it will go from silly antics to dark, cynical political stuff at the drop of a hat.)

A friend of mine doesn't like FFXII. I told him "You love Tactics, Tactics Advance and FFXI. FFXII is like all of those rolled into one. You should love it."
"Yeah, but it's boring."
"Well, you got me there."

FF12 isn't really that bad of a game. It's not horrible like 13 or 14. But... it's not really that good, either. It's just there, and not really all that fun. Sometimes I think game developers have become so focused on other things, they forget to make their games fun.

But luckily we still have games like Saints Row: the Third around where devs remember what fun games are.

Using fun as an argument is faulty because the very word is subjective.

I find FFXII, for instance, very fun. Far more fun than FFIV or VI.

What I think you mean is lighthearted, not fun. But I'm not even sure about that.

ImpAtom posted:

Eh. If the only way to have fun is to play as a sociopath, then I don't particularly want to have fun. It feels to me like developers are so creatively bankrupt that the only way they can think of to creature 'fun' games is to make ones where you're a crazy rear end in a top hat who kills people in cartoonish ways. I miss fun heroic adventure games, which is why I enjoyed the older Final Fantasy games and why I still enjoy Dragon Quest games. I don't get much out of playing King rear end in a top hat and murdering children. I just wish FF games would remember to be lighthearted again. (4 Heroes of Light was pretty great for this tho'.)

I wouldn't say that having a character who is a sociopath is creatively bankrupt. It is actually the opposite, because a lot of developers these days place emphasis on main character who feel and have feelings and emotions and want to make you cry. On the other hand, you have stuff like Saints Row The Third, where you play as a confident lead who takes no poo poo, and wants everything. gently caress feelings. How is that bankrupt if it is the anti-thesis to modern game character development?

Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jul 15, 2012

# ¿ Jul 15, 2012 23:16

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

There really wasn't much of a shift in FF's tone, at least, until recently. Even VII and VIII are full of lighthearted comedic moments and when people think of those games, they think of serious business.

Now XII and XIII? Those games have different tone up the wazoo. XII isn't melodramatic but it's not overly light in tone, either. Though it can be funny, the serious tone of the story outweighs whatever giggles we have while playing. XIII is weird in that it takes itself entirely too seriously to a fault.

I think Final Fantasy X was the last main series FF (no, I am not counting XI or X-2) to have this perfect balance of serious and lighthearted storytelling that I think of when I think of Final Fantasy.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2012 23:39

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Gammatron 64 posted:

I don't really want murderous sociopath protagonists in Final Fantasy... I dunno where the hell you extrapolated that from. Am I a sociopath because I like Saints Row? What in the world are you babbling about, dude? Saints' Row is fun, goofy and doesn't take itself too seriously.

I dunno, I just think Final Fantasy takes itself too seriously these days, namely XII and XIII. XII doesn't have a lot of awful melodrama and the story doesn't insult your intelligence, which is an enormous plus, but it isn't all that interesting, either. I guess X tried to be funny, but it kinda failed in that category. X had great gameplay, but characters, dialogue and voice acting were just shameful. FF10 isn't FF8 level dumb, but it approaches it. Playing it makes me feel embarrassed.

I think it has to do with perception, too. A lot of people who are obsessed with FF7 but don't remember it very well perceive it as this super serious epic or whatever, but it's actually one of the goofier games in the series. I guess it's because people are fixated on Cloud, Sephiroth and Aeris, but for me, Cid and Barrett stole the show. Granted, I haven't played Dirge of Cerberus or Crisis Core (not terribly interested), but Advent Children was pretty much this, and it was kinda dumb.

What I'm saying is, I'm hoping FFXV is another colorful Nintendoish throwback game like FFIX but that's not gonna happen.

Why does it have to be lighthearted exactly? It's possible to be serious and not be poo poo. But it's also possible to be lighthearted and embarrassing. If it's good, it's good, why does the tone matter?

I'd say XII is pretty interesting in that Ashe has to destroy the order to take back her throne, and the game gives you enough reasons to doubt her reasons for wanting to claim it. Is it pure selfish privilege wrapped in revenge or is it out of purely for the love of her people? FFXII is great at a lot of tiny, yet large questions like that.

Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jul 16, 2012

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 00:39

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Despite buying 100 dollars worth of games in the Steam sale, I'm tempted to go and play FFXII: International after I beat FFV. The older I get, the more it becomes my favorite Final Fantasy, which is funny because the first time I played it I really didn't like it. FFXII is one of those games that just clicks the more you play it, I have no clue why.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 01:10

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

The White Dragon posted:

See, I'm the exact opposite. First time I played FF12, I was like, "well this ain't bad." Tried it again later, every time I had to go between areas it was such a slog. My perspective on the story started out pretty generously, but now I'm cross with it.

Really, it seems to be a theme with every Matsuno game I've played but for his super-old classics like Ogre Battle SNES and FFT. First time I go through it completely, the story feels really fresh and nice. After that, it dulls further and further and I notice things I dislike more and more about his stories. I guess the reason those two stand out as exceptions are because Ogre Battle is really light on the plot contrivance and silly politics and it's more about you savescumming World cards for your first draw on the map and deploying your entire army so you can get like +10 stats for everyone and its story is highly secondary, just like how FFT is about sitting in the corner of the map scowling at Chocobos rather than being about political intrigue.

But FFXII has a gameplay focus and the lack of story are people's biggest problem with XII, so your complaint makes very little sense. It works like FFT in that it's all about exploring, fighting bosses, getting elite loot than telling a political intrigue story.

Swartz already nailed this but I figured I should agree highly. If your problem with FFXII is the story and want less, aren't you already playing the right game? The entire middle is almost entirely NOTHING but gameplay.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 18:39

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

It feels like you're cherry picking and finding things to bitch about here. Originally, you said that FFXII was hard to play because of the story. Then I brought up how the story is such a small part of the game, that shouldn't matter; then it was the gameplay, then the character progression, and now you bring up the visuals and music.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 20:46

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Happy Blue Cow posted:

You guys are seriously way too harsh on FF12's Soundtrack.

To say that its music is "different", sure. "unmemorable", possibly. "not your favorite", subjective... But to define it as lovely and really crappy? What the?!

Giza Plains and Dalmascan Desert, The Empires Theme, Rabanastre, Esper and Boss Fight Themes, just to name a few. Not to mention probably the best renditions of The Clash on the Big Bridge and the Crystal Theme (from the opening) that the series has ever done. There is seriously a ton of really stellar orchestral tracks in FF12.

Final Fantasy XII does indeed have the best rendition of The Prologue.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 20:50

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Azure_Horizon posted:

Clash on the Big Bridge was epitomized in XIII-2, actually. As for the rest of its soundtrack, the biggest problem is that it sorta fades into the background. It either sounds like something out of Star Wars, or it's superceded by character's voices and battle and such that you barely hear any of it. And what you do hear isn't particularly interesting, nor memorable.

FFXII's soundtrack is great while playing the game. It's not my favorite ost to listen to, but it offers fantastic ambiance while playing.

Happy Blue Cow posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM7MGqzekFU

I love the music in the intro fmv.

http://youtu.be/3CDzjsmgqVk

How can anyone hate it? :allears:

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 20:53

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

edit: sorry, double post.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 20:54

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

The White Dragon posted:

It feels that way but I did mention prior to this that I find the maps ugly and dull and far too extensive for their own good. There's a difference between expansive and huge and packed full of cool and weird poo poo to find, and expansive for the sake of feeling large. FF12 falls into the latter category, and this only stresses my already poor opinion of its environments and aesthetics. It's a study in bad level design.

I actually kind of agree with this, but at the same time I don't. I used to dislike the map size, now I love it, and find that FFXII has tons of secrets jam packed, must of which are fun to find and this is attributed mostly to map size and the scale of the exploration. Ultimately, FFXII is just one big dungeon crawl which is why I like it.

Azure_Horizon posted:

That's easily its greatest negative. I can't pop on the soundtrack and be like "oh hey that was Giza Plains". It doesn't work outside of the game, and even inside of the game a lot of the tracks just kinda blend together into mediocrity.

I'm not sure if I could call that mediocrity because the music is far from mediocre. It's something prominent with a lot of Sakimoto soundtracks, depending on the game. I can say the same is true for a lot of his Matsuno games, FFT included. If that's mediocre to you, I don't know what to say. It's definitely better arranged than Uematsu's offerings, it's just that it lacks a giant emphasis on melodic elements, if we're talking purely technical musical terms which Uematsu has a hard on for, given his lack of skill in well arranged tracks.

I personally think FFXII has a lot of iconic tracks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIkYOR5kgxM

Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jul 16, 2012

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 21:01

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Azure_Horizon posted:

FF12's "dungeon crawl" aspect would be interesting were it more visually arresting, like say SMT: Nocturne. The cel-shading and muted lighting made the dungeon crawling in that game much more interesting. Only a couple areas could be called bland, and the art design carried the rest.

Eh, I find the game very visually interesting. I love the architecture, the vistas, the landscapes, the character designs. The entire world really appeals to me aesthetically. I guess I can understand not liking the environmental design because a lot of the textures are repeated over and over, but it's not like FFXIII doesn't suffer from the same problem. Both XII and XIII are visually flat and boring compared to their forebears in terms of environment design.

I prefer XII's aesthetic more than XIII's if we have to pick favorites however.

The great thing about XII's world is that it invokes the idea that this is a land with thousands of years of history. I never got that with XIII. I love places like Raithwall and that gray place I don't remember the name of that had the invisible doors. Those were inviting, interesting places with a lot of mystery. I don't think I can say that about any FFXIII location.

Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jul 16, 2012

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 21:13

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Tempo 119 posted:

I wouldn't say it's bad or anything, technically, but there's no way it's a good sign for me to be clicking through all these youtubes and not recognising a single thing from a game I played for tens of hours.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all and feel the same way about FFXIII's soundtrack, which I found disappointing.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2012 22:37

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

What was that dungeon with the invisible doors? That place was incredible in terms of visuals. Giruvegan was beautiful as well.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2012 06:58

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Schwartzcough posted:

What do you mean by "invisible doors"? I think the Pharos lighthouse and subterra had a number of illusionary walls.

I think it's on the way to the Giruvegan. You're in this gray place with a lot of undead, and in order to progress you have to unlock specific doors that are invisible.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2012 07:17

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

FFXII is amazing when underleveled.

I wish I could play FFXII: International. It seems the only way to play with the patch is to import a 100 dollar version of XII International.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2012 18:20

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Circle for confirm for life. No other answers. :colbert:

Dr Tasty posted:

Can you change the button config in later FF titles? I don't remember.

Hasn't been an option since 9.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2012 02:32

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Kewpuh posted:

Can I ask at what point it became acceptable to talk about pirated games in here?

What pirated games talk?

# ¿ Jul 22, 2012 19:03

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Final Fantasy XIII Versus was not cancelled. However, it may look completely different from what we saw last time, and will most definitely be renamed. You guys don't have to believe me at all, but you can chalk this case up as another example of game journalism.txt.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2012 07:09

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Endorph posted:

I feel richer for having read this.

That paragraph is magical.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2012 18:22

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Winks posted:

More FFVII PC stuff. Looks like the videos are better at least.

Old:

New:

I really more shots but this looks good.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2012 08:56

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Can anyone take any screens? Is it the same exact loving poo poo at FF7 PC?

# ¿ Aug 14, 2012 20:12

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Oh god, we wouldn't want someone to pirate our multi-million selling 15 year old game!

# ¿ Aug 14, 2012 21:21

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Guys, like Chrono Trigger ds, this is an obvious test to see if there is "interest" in a sequel.

And much like Chrono Trigger ds this will likely fail to gain that interest. But anyone who wants a sequel should buy this when it drops. Speak with your money.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2012 15:16

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Ahahahahahah Azure your title. :laffo:

# ¿ Aug 27, 2012 00:09

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Mister Roboto posted:

Hey, we're in the same boat.

Do you ever find it strange people would get satisfaction on wasting cash on anonymous revenge?

Like, isn't the point of a debate to prove YOURSELF right? It just seems cowardly and passive-aggressive to insult someone's stance anonymously, and you're hardly going to convince anyone...so, again, there must be this weird satisfaction in doing it.

Especially over Final Fantasy battle systems, I mean, seriously, that's just petty.

Well, some goons are wimps (I neglected to write pussy in case someone called me a misogynist!) and also petty. A petty wimp with a lot of money is not a good thing.

Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Aug 27, 2012

# ¿ Aug 27, 2012 16:02

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Fister Roboto posted:

On the other hand whining about having an unpopular opinion and calling anyone who disagrees with you an echo chamber is really stupid.

Agreed!

# ¿ Aug 27, 2012 16:52

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Please post pics of the FF games on Vita to show us what it looks like on the screen?

# ¿ Aug 28, 2012 08:10

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Do they even still make gamesharks?

# ¿ Aug 30, 2012 02:55

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

FFXIII-3 sounds just like my cup of tea.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2012 09:13

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Can you link to said video?

# ¿ Sep 1, 2012 09:23

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Waiting for trains and poo poo sounds awesome.

Final Fantasy Shenmue, baby.

Tempo 119 posted:

The stuff in the video about how the world runs on a schedule and you have to wait for trains and poo poo sounds so tedious, hopefully they won't go too far with that.

Hopefully they do!

# ¿ Sep 1, 2012 14:29

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

I am trying not judge people who bought Final Fantasy Dimensions at full price but, I'm finding that to be a very, very hard task.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2012 20:38

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

I'm kind of tired of defending FF8 in this thread.

Especially since I'm usually the only one that does it. :smith:

# ¿ Sep 3, 2012 06:28

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Blue Dragon steamrolls the gently caress out of Lost Odyssey, though Lost Odyssey is great too.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2012 23:01

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 16:40

Jupiter Jazz: Jan 13, 2007; by sebmojo

Donnor posted:

Speaking of Final Fantasy games released as episodic content, is The After Years actually worth playing? I've hear bad things about it.

I just don't get the appeal of Blue Dragon. Every single character in the game are completely annoying children. If this game had existed while I was younger I may have liked it, but the gameplay is not nearly good enough to carry the game.

The appeal of Blue Dragon is to have a gung-ho group of kids kicking rear end. It's very simplistic, but so are games like Final Fantasy V. It's refreshing to have a main character who is about hauling rear end and taking no poo poo, even if he's a kid. I'd rather have that than another brooding main character. The only character that's actually annoying is Marumaro, which I'll give you, but the rest of the cast fit into their archetypes nicely.

As for the gameplay, I find it more inventive than say, Lost Odyssey. The world map system in particular is great. I like getting new abilities like being able to sneak while undetected, or using the ball that instantly kills all weaker enemies upon touching them without having to go through battle, making grinding pain free.

The game also features nice atmosphere (the clay town, the hospital), cool quests (nothings!), fantastic dungeons (the dungeon at the end of disc 1 has you fighting like 6-8 bosses in this one badass boss rush), a unique world full of color and interesting designs,(I love Toriyama designs, especially his monster designs), and is the last jrpg on consoles I've played where I felt like I was actually going on an adventure. The appeal of Blue Dragon is the same appeal of older jrpgs. Lost Odyssey is great, but it lacks what made Blue Dragon special. It doesn't help that the writing is atrocious whereas Blue Dragon is merely charming.

Blue Dragon is basically a modern Final Fantasy V. You even have a pirate in your party.

Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Sep 4, 2012

# ¿ Sep 4, 2012 01:43

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