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Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
Pretty sure the debuffs like Wither can stack multiple times. If I recall they do something like ATK -2 instead of halving the enemy attack. And they're permanent, so you can keep using them until the enemy has bottomed-out stats. They're the sort of thing you'd use on a boss more than random enemies.

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Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

NikkolasKing posted:

So in FFVI was it all part of Kefka's plan to get the power of the Statues? Like, he was planning to attain Godhood all along and everything went according to plan or was he winging it?

I never really understood that part of the plot. Were both he and I guess the Emperor just using Espers temporarily until they could get at the Goddess' power?


I mean, the Empire was using the Espers they captured (both from the Esper world years ago and during the Thamasacre) to conquer the world. Then when Terra got the Espers to open the barrier to the Esper world, it just so happened to give Gestahl the opportunity to reach the petrified gods and access the source of all magic. And then I think Kefka decided he'd rather just have the power himself because he really wanted to barbecue Celes.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Shart Carbuncle posted:

She's unbelievably the annoying.

ftfy

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
It's not so much "revenge against any and all nobles"- he wanted to put himself in a position where he was the one calling the shots. Him and his sister started off as poor trash, and the nobles spared absolutely no regard for them and killed his sister just to get a clear shot at a rebel, even though they were besties with the son of a powerful noble family. So he's like "I can use and walk over people better than anyone, just watch me!" and proceeded to backstab his way to the top, swearing that he'd be looking out for the commoners who got used and mistreated. But then in the end he ends up stabbing the woman he loved(?) because he'd become such an amoral monster that she couldn't trust him, showing that, yes, he had become what he hated.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

The White Dragon posted:

wasn't that dramatic tragedy though, like he didn't go there expecting to kill her but she shanks him because he's become a crazy rear end in a top hat, and then he pulls it out of his side and stabs her with that same knife

Yes, that's correct. I think he did care about her, too. I mean, he swore to protect her on his dead sister, and that seems like the one thing he wouldn't gently caress around about. But his stabbing reflex had become too strong to suppress.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Dr Pepper posted:

This is pretty clearly not true if you look at his reaction to her death. He breaks down basically, asking desperately what Ramza gained from his actions.

Olivia triggered his fight-or-flight reflexes when she tried to stab him. He was a soldier who had been in a lot of battles.

Plus the other stuff he said throughout the game.

FFT script posted:

[Delita comforts Ovelia.]
Delita: ...Don't cry like that.
Ovelia: Should I trust you?
Delita: I won't betray you. I swear by my dead sister, Teta...... So, please don't cry...
Again, I don't think he'd lie on the grave of his dead sister.

FFT script posted:

Ramza: Come with me...
Delita: Sorry, I can't. She needs me.
Ramza: She...?
Delita: Prince or Princess... It doesn't matter as long as they are easily controlled. The High Priest's plan calls for a puppet government.
Ramza: You're just using Ovelia for your own ambitions?
Delita: ...I don't know. But...
[Ramza stands up.]
Ramza: But what?
Delita: I would give my life for her...
Ramza: Delita...
Delita: Is that strange?
Ramza: No, I believe you.
Why would he lie here?

Whatever happened in the end, I think Delita did care about and want to protect Ovelia. But once she starts stabbing him the honeymoon is over.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
It's not like he showed up to kill her. She was actively trying to kill him. He pulled the knife away from her and stabbed her with it. The time for reasonable discourse had passed. I mean sure, he could just taken the knife away and hobbled off, but things had already escalated by that point and she was trying to murder him.

And it's still thematically appropriate. He discovers he can't "beat the manipulators at their own game" and still keep his innocence and trustworthiness. When he's become so cold and deceitful, even the people he actually cares about can't trust him. All that he has left now is the knowledge of what he's become. His ambition cost him the things that were really important to him.

Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Jan 26, 2019

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

DACK FAYDEN posted:

Nier: Automata has the Engine Blade in it, so it takes place in the same multiverse as FFXV

...and the Cypress Stick, so Dragon Quest 1-3

...and FFXV had an XIV crossover already and another one coming so technically Nier is already in the XIV universe

...and XIV had an XI crossover as well so Shantotto is canon in Dragon Quest 3

Thank you, Tommy Westphall.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Coughing Hobo posted:

Except for 8 because at this point the joke's just too funny not to keep it up

"In honor of the 20th anniversary of the release of Final Fantasy 8, we are pleased to announce a new remake of Final Fantasy 9. Please look forward to it!"

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

The White Dragon posted:

i was a shy kid but even when i was twelve i thought squall was a loser

There was no reason everyone in the game world was tripping over themselves to fellate Squall about how great he was. He's more like a bully who is mean-spirited because of his own low self-esteem than he was a "shy, vulnerable" teenager. And he was only as competent as he was at everything because of Protagonist Syndrome. Man that story was bad on so many levels.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

mandatory lesbian posted:

Oh no, not protagonist syndrome, whatever will we do.

Hey can you use the words god gave you instead of expecting me to know what tvtropes bullshit you're on about

There's no TV Tropes bullshit; the phrase seemed pretty self-explanatory. But OK, let me explain it: there is no in-world reason why Squall is apparently the only semi-competent person in the world. He's not half moon-man or a Mako-infused super soldier or anything; he's not even ambitious to train hard and become the best- he bitches and complains whenever he's promoted or given responsibility, and spends his free time moping in his bedroom. He's gotten Garden training, but so have 90% of the characters in the story. He's simply the best at everything because he's the main character, and that's lazy and dumb.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Randallteal posted:

Squall doesn't succeed at everything he tries. He messes up a lot because he's extremely in his own head about everything at the start of the game. I can understand how people could be aggravated by him at the start of the game because depressed people can be aggravating, especially when they're rejecting the people who are trying to help them, like Squall does, but giving him a supersoldier backstory or something like that would be dumb.

I didn't say he succeeds at everything, just that he's better than everyone else. He's constantly being told how great he is at things ("wow, you're the first graduate to ever master the gunblade!" "You are the most attractive man in this entire school so I'll single you out to pester with my attention." "You're an amazingly natural dancer! You performed perfectly without any practice." "We're just going to make you squad leader all the time despite you having a depressive attitude and the motivational and people skills of a shoe." "Only you can go down under the school to figure out how to stop the missiles, for some reason." "I know you just graduated like a week ago, but I'm putting the entire school under your command." "SQUALL! You have to be the one to command all the troops and also save Rinoa and also confront the sorceress! Nobody else can do it don't ask why!"). His "friends" are constantly going out of their way to set him up with Rinoa or get him involved in things despite him usually giving them the cold shoulder. There is an entire school of trained, graduated mercenaries who have years of field experience, and yet nobody ever accomplished anything except Squall, the rookie who just graduated this month. This is, of course, made more apparent by Squall repeatedly asking "why me?" when all this responsibility is dumped on him, but we never get an answer.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
Ah, I was thinking of this line:

Quistis: "You really are an excellent student. Even that dance was perfect."

I guess I just conflated that with him being all stumbly and awkward at the dance, and then suddenly performing the rest of the dance perfectly.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
So had all the other SeeDs, including ones that had been graduated for years and were way more experienced. Why did none of them have any agency? Why did they have to stand around demanding that Squall make decisions for them? Why were all the experienced mercenaries missing for the entire game? Quistis was supposed to be some child prodigy and had been in a leader role for some time, but just like all the rest she couldn't seem to do anything without Squall.

My point is that according to the story he's just another face in a crowd. There's nothing special about him compared to all the other Balamb-trained students. And yet the whole story revolves around him and requires him to be the driving force in the world.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
Most of the translation of the story scenes in the original FFT is fine. The horrible translation issues was mostly confined to secondary material that clearly didn't get much proof-reading, like the bar rumors, the proposition jobs, and the hilariously incomprehensible tutorial stuff.

Meanwhile the WotL translation is mostly fine but is a pretty clumsy attempt at imitating Alexander O. Smith's style and is actually a pretty poor attempt to sound smart.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
You can, but the amount of spillover JP you get in a battle tends to not be huge, so whether you want to use another 20 minutes redoing a semi-hard battle for that is up to you. You'd probably have better results just doing a quick random battle instead.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
That would have to be a mod, then. Not surprising, because in the base game no one ever casts magic because doing so reduces your stats, and it's generally easier/more efficient to just spam limit breaks anyway.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
Not really sure in the Zodiac version. They had their rare uses in the Vanilla version. Like I think Belias was pretty good against one of the very hard early hunts with a dragon since it was mostly fire attacks and Belias could ignore those. Or when I went into the Nabreus Deadlands super underleveled, and there is one of those fake save crystals that try to kill you- I think it used all elemental attacks that Zalera was immune to, so I just had the summoner hang back out of range and let Zalera slowly kill it.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

Scalding Coffee posted:

They buffed Espers? What did they do to make them not suck? I always wanted to use them in the old version, but they were baaaaad.

And the quickening/summoning bars have been separated from MP, so using a quickening or summon does not tank your MP anymore.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
I always hated Basch's outfit. It looks like he's wearing a potholder and clothes that don't fit him. The clothes he stole off the dead guy in the Barheim Passage when you first got him would've been a big improvement.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

zedprime posted:

Grinding out enc-half or enc+none is kind of meh. Just keep going through the game carding what you can to get a better variety of cards and you'll get enc skills naturally when you are tired of combat that you need to do to progress anyway.

I don't recall there being a convenient, readily-available method to bring enemies to critical HP for carding, other than blowing several Demi spells every fight. Getting in normal random encounters and trying to card everything sounds really frustrating.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

CeallaSo posted:

Venat was, as the Occuria so eloquently put it, a heretic; it didn't believe that what they were doing was right, and believed that mankind had reached a point where it should be trusted to take the reins of its own destiny. Vayne was intended to be Venat's "Dynast-King," a new leader who represented this change from the old world controlled by the Occuria to a new one ruled by mankind. They were partners trying to make a better world, basically.

Alternate take: Venat WAS a villain. Incoming :spergin: :words:

The game sort of plays with your opinions on Venat, by constantly telling you he's helping put the "reins of history back in the hands of man" and by having Ashe reject Occurian influence. But when you look back on everything, I don't think he was looking out for humanity's interests at all.

Point 1: The Occuria were beneficial to mankind.
We don't get to hear much about the Occuria's influence- they don't seem to "take the reins" very often. The last person we hear about that was guided by the Occuria was the Dynast King, who all seem to agree was a great ruler who led humanity into an unparalleled age of unity and prosperity. He brought all the warring nations together without using the Nethicite. He didn't nuke anybody; it was just "threat of nuke" that got people to sit down and negotiate.

We know that with the Occuria's influence removed, magic begines to fade from the world, nations go back to warring, many species die off, and Ivalice is plunged back into a dark age (remember, medieval FFT comes long after technologically advanced FFXII). Perhaps the Occuria were right that humanity wasn't quite ready to be in charge, and certainly shouldn't be given free access to nukes to kill each other and gently caress up the planet.

Point 2: Venat's nethicite was bad mojo
So Venat taught the Archadian empire how to make fake nethicite. It still has the offensive nuking potential of deifacted nethicite, sure, but what's different? It makes people into homicidal berserkers and lets Venat possess them. We see this with Judge Bergan and with the Viera from the mines. They both are pretty out of their wits and filled with murderous intent. And when you defeat them- oh gee, you see Venat pop up/out of them and bugger off. You find out how the Archadians put the nethicite by the Viera because Viera are more susceptible to mist and the stone's influence; seems like Venat wanted to use her as a test subject. Even at the final boss, Vayne seems to have accepted defeat, and then Venat seems to possess him. Vayne certainly looked confused and concerned about suddenly having the ship start grafting itself to his body, and then he appears to lose all personality/consciousness. It seems like when Venat's plans were coming apart, he decided to just jack Vayne's body to use like a suit of armor. The final boss is literally called "The Undying", which is what the Occuria call themselves.

"Undying, we Occuria light the path for wayward sons of man. Oft did we pass judgment on them so that Ivalice might endure. Eternal, we are hist'ry's stewards, to set the course and keep it true."
—Gerun, leader of the Occuria

You never hear any mention of deifacted nethicite being used to possess or control people. The Occuria simply choose someone with like-minded goals to themselves and then empower that person with nethicite. The Occuria do not literally take control of that person. Ironically, the Occuria employ less direct control of humanity than the one who is ostensibly giving control back to humanity.

Point 3: Venat picked a bad group to give the power of Nethicite
Rather than giving all of humanity access to deifacted nethicite, or finding some benevolent champion for his cause, Venat instead chooses the Archadian Empire, and more specifically Vayne and Cid, to work with and give exclusive access to the nethicite. Both Vayne and Cid are amoral at best, or immoral at worst, in their quests for power or knowledge, respectively. They think nothing of throwing away any lives that it takes, including their own family, or entire cities as "test subjects" for the nethicite's power. Vayne had aspirations of being the next "Dynast King" by ruthelessly taking over everything he surveyed. Namely, Venat found two people with power and a lot of ambition that he could manipulate into taking over the world with the power of nethicite. And as I pointed out above, the nethicite allows Venat to take control of people. It appears he needed a militant empire to do the actual world conquering, and then he could simply control whoever was at the top of the totem pole.

Choosing the Archadian Empire as the sole power to possess nethicite did not seem to actually be done to help humanity out. It seemed to be a ploy to specifically consolidate power to himself, and exclude control from the rest of the Occuria by undermining their trump card.

It seems to me, on considering the facts and circumstances, that Venat didn't like passively guiding humanity from a distance with the rest of the Occuria, and instead decided to take direct control all by himself. The Occuria might have been on to something calling him a heretic and all that.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
You can waste time in VIII drawing from enemies, or you can waste time playing the card game over and over and over again, including figuring out who has worthwhile cards and what cards mod into. Pick your poison, they both require/waste a lot of time.

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Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!

S.J. posted:

I've never played 4 or 5. Be honest with me, here, how good are they?

I think IV was very revolutionary at the time it was released, but now everything it does is pretty JRPG standard and done better, so I find it pretty dull. FFV was and continues to be an extremely well-crafted gameplay experience with crazy replay value (see the annual Final Fantasy Five Four Job Fiesta), and is very good. The game can be beaten with every job combination (and usually with no or minimal level grinding) due to the many tricks as your disposal, and yet can continue to feel challenging, which is a sign of Very Good Design.

Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Mar 19, 2019

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